by Josh Orton, Tue Aug 11, 2009 at 06:26:46 AM EDT
Are people watching this? He's getting yelled at by right-wingers, and it's live on all three cable networks.
Thoughts?
Update [2009-8-11 13:48:53 by Charles Lemos]: Here's some raw video from the Associated Press.Tags: Arlen Specter, Health care (all tags)
This whole 20th century 24 hour news cycle really had a strange impact on things for a while, in the late part of the 20th century, didn't it?
Well, anyway at least we got a town hall out of it. Even if it is only a dog and pony show.
Ok, guys I'm out. Big meeting.
my question is -- who was responsible for getting the progressives to the meeting? Because it looks like they had a sleep in.
I live in PA and Lebanon is within driving distance but definitely not close to where I live and not even in the same county. My wife and I were talking about going to this townhall which incidentally is in a very red county but had no idea where it was what time it was and if there was any effort put into it by the OFA-PA. I had scheduled patients for my clinic this morning and if I had a week's notice I could have cancelled. Last night at 10:45 PM I got an email from OFA telling me where the townhall was and that they were "organizing" for supporters to go to this meeting. If that isn't bad organizing tell me what is? It seems I would get a better idea about these things from the right wing websites!!
From NBC's Domenico Montanaro
For some context on the Arlen Specter's lively Pennsylvania town hall that we are seeing live on MSNBC, it is taking place in Lebanon County, a solidly Republican County in a Democratic state.Lebanon County, in Central-Eastern Pennsylvania, voted overwhelmingly for John McCain in 2008, 59%-40% -- despite Barack Obama winning the state overall 54%-44% -- the highest percentage achieved by a Democrat in Pennsylvania since LBJ in 1964. Going all the way back to 1960, this county has never voted for a Democrat.
The county does fall in the 17th congressional district, which is represented by DEMOCRAT Tim Holden, who was elected in 1992.
Some Lebanon history as GOP county:
In 2004, it voted 67%-33% for Bush.
In 2000, it voted 62%-35% for Bush.
In 1996, it voted 54%-35% for Dole.
In 1992, it voted 50%-21% for Bush.
In 1988, it voted 67%-33% for Bush.
In 1984, it voted 72%-28% for Reagan.
In 1980, it voted 69%-23% for Reagan.
In 1976, it voted 63%-35% for Ford.
In 1972, it voted 77%-21% for Nixon.
In 1968, it voted 64%-28% for Nixon.
In 1964, it voted 53%-47% for Goldwater.
In 1960, it voted 68%-32% for Nixon.
which seems weird to me...if the network knew this is was a far right wing county, and not the first one in which a Senator/Congressman was yelled at, why did they suddenly choose to cover this particular town hall?
Are they trying to pretend that the views of a few dozen people in far-right Lebanon County, Pennsylvania equal that of America.
I used to work at ABC...these are things that come up in production meetings.
Well but the concern about what would be in a reform bill isnt in the minority. Now, I dont see how screaming and yelling resolves anything, but there are many democrats and independents who are very concerned about what the reform bill will contain and how its going to be paid for. Your alwasy goign to see the extremes at these events, just as we did see them at iraq war protests. When the right belittled the protests by sayign they were left wing fanatics, the truth was that there were many republicans and independents at that time upset about the war. Those folks dont show up at these events and get attention, the extremes on both sides do. So just as we didnt appreciate being belittled on the war, we shouldnt belittle those who have concerns about healthcare reform.
What we need is open but respectful dialogue.....
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the whole point of these protests is to make sure we don't have the respectful dialogue you're talking about. Over at TPM they have a clip of a woman at the specter rally. She's on Fox News, of course. And she says something very important, and I quote, "This is not about Health Care reform." Someone should play a clip of her saying that over and over again.
I understand. But to say that everyone who shows up in disagreement at these town halls is some sort of operative or part of some group attempting to disrupt is not accurate. Two friends of mine went to one in CT and were there to state their objections to various items in the proposed bills. They were there of their own desire, not prompted byu anything but concern. So the idea that all these protests are organized isnt accurate. Heck there is stuff in the bill that even supporters of the house bill dont know is there and its negative in nature, yet they say it isnt there when its there.
I absolutely agree, but the point of the mobs that do show up is to make sure those who respectfully disagree can't possibly have a civil discussion. They very specifically take away the opportunity for any reasonable objections to be resolved.
Bull. The whole POINT of what this woman was doing was trying to get herself onto the National stage. If you look carefully, she is there behind the altercation with a video camera in hand, trying very hard to capture footage that can be used by ??? The people who instigated and sent her there.
Again I dont disagree there are people there instigating trouble, however there are plenty of people there with real concerns and objections who are not part of some agenda based group. They may be part of some group, but not a group with an agenda to disrupt. I know this for a fact because I know enough people who have gone to these events solo and or part of a group of concerned individuals including a church group with concerns.
You have no statistical proof either, so what's your point? You anecdotally "know" some people so why do you assert there are "plenty" of people with real concerns. Arguing without logic is a waste of time.
I have real world examples...you simpyl state that everyone who shows up in disagreement is a plant, an organized hit squad. Essentially what you say is that anyone who has some concern or objection to some elements of the proposed plans is some right wing nut or has been put up to showing up and protesting and that is simply untrue.
Buckeyeblogger,
I have reviewed most of your posts and it is evident that you are an anti-reform troll.
Not once have I read what you are actually in favor of.
Now you are defending the anti-Obama, anti-Democratic, anti-progressive, anti-Liberal demonstrators as authentic, even though it is plain to see that they are simply using this health care debate as a vehicle to express their feelings and employing questionable tactics.
Great question posed by Dave Lindorff at counterpunch.org:
Dave Lindroffs out there, and if they are, they are wildly outnumbered.
so this silent liberal majority is just sitting around waiting for someone to fund them and give them attention?
are they pathetic or is this just a pipe dream?
Hecklers Unite!
Why Aren't Progressives Disrupting ObamaCare Town Halls?
By DAVE LINDORFF
Many progressives are getting all bent out of shape over the "brown shirt" rabble organized by health industry PR firms to disrupt the so-called "town meetings" being organized all over the country by Democratic members of Congress.
What they are conveniently forgetting is that these are not really "town meetings" at all, at least in the sense of the town meetings I grew up with, and started out covering as a young journalist in Connecticut--that is, meetings called and run democratically, with leaders elected from the floor, open to all residents of a community.
These "town meetings" are really nothing but propaganda sessions run by members of Congress who are trying to burnish their fraudulent credentials as public servants, and trying to perpetrate a huge fraud of a health care bill that purports to be a progressive "reform" of the US health care system, but that actually further entrenches the control of that system by the insurance industry, and to a lesser extent, the hospital and drug industry.
ObamaCare is to health reform what bank bailouts are to financial system reform, which is to say it is the opposite of what its name implies.
The right-wing nuts who cry that ObamaCare is introducing euthanasia for the elderly and infirm, or that it is socialism, are ignorant wackos, to be sure, but they are right about one thing: Americans are about to be royally screwed on health care reform by the president and the Democratic Congress, just as they've been screwed by them on financial system "reform."
The appropriate response to this screw-job is the one the right has adopted: shut these sham "town meetings" down, and run the sell-out politicians out of town on a rail, preferably coated in tar and feathers they way the snake-oil salesmen of old used to be handled!
This is not about civil discourse. This is about propaganda. The Obama administration and the Democratic Congressional leadership have sold out health care reform for the tainted coin of the medical-industrial industry, and are holding, or trying to hold, these meetings around the country to promote legislation that has essentially been written for them by that industry--legislation that will force everyone to pay for insurance as offered, and priced, by the private insurance industry. What a deal for those companies--a captive market of 300 million people! There will be little or no effort to control prices, and the higher costs will be financed through higher taxes, and through cuts in Medicare benefits.
This isn't "reform." It's corruption, pure and simple.
Any mention of a system that works--single payer--the system we already have in the form of Medicare for the elderly and disabled, and the system that has proved successful for almost four decades in Canada-- has been systematically blocked and censored out of the discussion. Every effort has been made to bury an excellent bill, HR 676, offered up by Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), which would cover every American by simply expanding Medicare to cover everyone.
The only proper response at this point is obstruction, and the more militant and boisterous that obstruction, the better.
Instead of opposing the right-wing hecklers at these events, progressives should be making common cause with them. Instead of calling them fascists, we should be working to turn them, by showing them that the enemy is not the left; it is the corporations that own both Democrats and Republicans alike.
The only proper approach to the wretched health care legislation currently working its way through Congress at this point is to kill it and start over. At these "town meeting" staged events, Obama and the Democrats need to hear, in no uncertain terms, that we don't want no stinkin' ObamaCare. We want Medicare for all.
Dave Lindorff is a Philadelphia-based journalist and columnist. His latest book is "The Case for Impeachment" (St. Martin's Press, 2006 and now available in paperback). He can be reached at dlindorff@mindspring.com
and medicare is wrought with cost overruns and is billions in debt....
Medicare costs are increasing at a slightly greater than inflationary rate, but overall healthcare costs are increasing at 2.5X the rate of inflation.
Peddle your conservative crap over at redstate. They're buying.
Number one, I dont peddle conservative crap. Am I something of a blue dog yes. Of course in your eye the only right way is your way, no one who objects to the hard left has a place in the party. Secondly, you must be the only person in american who doesnt know that medicare is in trouble with predictions that it will be unable to cover costs in just 10 short years.
Whereas lots of people in America don't know that Medicare costs are actually increasing at a slower rate than the private health care system. Which is why you often see it described as a problem with Medicare when it's really a problem with the overall health care system.
who don't appear to "know medicare is in trouble"
the predictions that it will be unable to cover costs in just 10 short years are fear tactics instigated by the very same people we're talking about here.
You do realize that its the medicare trustees who are stating it is in trouble? The trustees of course being the Sec. of Treasury, Sec of Labor, Health and Human Services and comission of social security. All individuals who report to the President of the United States.
Man, these townhollers will be pissed once this refrom bill passes and they will be FORCED BY THE GOVERNMENT to make an appointment with their favorite doctor and receive the same level of care they've always had but at a lower out-of-pocket cost. And they'll blow a gasket when they have to go to Walgreens and pick up that $4 prescription. And I just hope to God that nothing terrible happens that any one of them is forced to be rushed to one of those emergency rooms where they have time to attend to actual emergencies instead of providing primary care to the uninsured. Sounds like Nazi-ism in the old USSR to me.
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