from Obama. He will move too far toward Republicans in a hopeless effort to have a "bipartisan bill."

Mass transit and contraception programs have been cut from the stimulus--what else will Obama sell us out on before he realizes the Republicans are not in good faith?

One, Obama has such a hard-on for bipartisanship that he is blind to the fact that they will not vote with him. He will continue to cave while the GOP pushes more and more. He'll keep caving until Pelosi/Reid stop him.

Two, he is well aware that the GOP will not vote with him, but is maintaining the moral high ground of "I tried to work with them". This squeezes the GOP's obstructionism in the vice of public opinion. Contraception is not just a Senate GOP issue, a lot of people I work with would be pissed off about it's inclusion. so he's actually playing to the crowd.

The fashionable position is that scenario one is true. I favor scenario two. Why? It's Obama's M.O. His style is to look like the nice sweet guy while he's screwing you over. It's a subtle form of character assassination, and he has done it to all of his opponents. He will allow the GOP to paint themselves as obstructionist and inept by attacking him while he's "bending over backwards to work with them". Next thing we'll be wondering how the 2009 GOP Senate "imploded", a la McCain.

It is possible that he's finally met his Moby Dick. But I just don't see a whole lot of precedent for it. This isn't a guy who keeps trying to kick the football.

go back to the plan that included contraceptive funding.

This is like predicting that the sun will come up.

The GOP leadership may their intentions clear with the auto bailout.

They intend to obstruct.

And, I agree with Marshall. There is no incentive for them not to obstruct. Their goal is to get back into power. The fastest way to do that is through a failed Democratic presidential administration.

Again, this also is as predictable as the sun coming up if you let at things in terms of self-interest rather than serving the country's greater interest. Of the two parties, sadly, the GOP is the most self-interested, and knows how to negotiate along those terms. They will not give in here because a crashed economy serves their interest. I imagine they even rationalize it serves the economy because of us dangerous Democrats being in charge.

 Now we can all get back to being completely miserable. Welcome back to the Progressive comfort zone!

let them show their colors now, so that Barack will stop giving away compromises in the expectation that this will lead to rational decision making from our pug congresspersons.  They had their chance, they blew it, let's leave them in the dust?  

He will learn eventually to use less carrots and more stick.

The question is how much clout do the GOP leadership have on this issue.  I'm sure they said the same thing to their rank and file about SCHIP as well, and many republicans voted for it.  The democratic leadership seems pretty convinced that they will get a good number of Republicans voting for the bill and are not worried... the media also feels there will be overwhelming support for the bill overall...  I don't know if Obama is going through backchannels or what, but no one on our side seems worried that it won't be "bipartisan"...  Of course, we only need a handful of votes to make it to a 2/3rds majority...

Obama isn't stupid.  Everyone assumes he's some DLC type of moron... he's setting something up for the Republicans, I don't know what, though...  The man didn't get to be the first black president by playing dumb... So, I don't know... Those in Chicago are waiting for him to go South Side on the GOP... they've seen this before.

Meanwhile, we get on the phones and call up our republican representatives and give them hell.

As for the contraceptive stuff, I'm glad it's stripped out... I don't want to hear years of GOP whining about "condom stimulus"... attach it as an amendment to another bill...  We still need more infrastructure spending, though...  maybe we can get an amendment on that...

The stimulus plan should be that... stimulus.... and we need ot leave our pet projects out of it unless they create jobs...

...if I lose my job.  I can keep a greater percentage of nothing.

Apparently mass transit advocates are not happy with the support they are getting.  If we are not going to get the Republicans anyway, why not take the tax cut and family planning money, and put it in mass transit?

like pelosi's aide told the hill-the liberals are luke warm, the gop opposes, blue dogs are divided. it may pass bc of the the votres but n one seems to really want it. feels like the immigration bil-but this one liely will pass and do little for the economy.

Final option seems to be to just use this obstructionism to say, "We tried to work with you and you wouldn't do it. So we're doing this our way and we won't be asking for your help until you grow the fuck up."

Meanwhile, I wouldn't mind if Obama completely threw Pelosi under the bus anyway. This bill is atrocious, and it's VERY clear that our representatives have no idea what the fuck they're even supposed to be pushing for.

The problem with Democrats is that they don't understand the Republican thought process. They assume that if they show them good will by giving in on some issues in the stimulus bill, that the Republicans will return the favor by offering compromises themselves.

Republicans don't think like Democrats. First, to the Republicans, the good will gestures are a sign of Democratic weakness. At the very least, they will hold out to get more concessions from Obama until the bill is a Republican bill rather than a Democratic bill.

Second, Republicans are an ideological based party on the issues, but pragmatic when it comes to bargaining. Conversely, Democrats are pragmatic when solving economic and social problems but are ideological when it comes to bargaining. That is, Republicans follow the axiom start high and give in only very slowly, if at all. The object of bargaining is to win. Democrats believe that the goodness in people will cause the opposition to give in when they are shown kindness. To the Democrats, the purpose of bargaining is to make everyone happy. The Republicans are pragmatic when it comes to bargaining because they believe that they must gain power at all costs to implement their ideology.

Third, because Republicans are ideologically based when it becomes to the issues, most Republicans believe that it is immoral to compromise with the Democrats. In other words, "It's my way or the highway." Yes, its obvious that they are against abortion and conservative on social issues because of their fundamentalist religious belief. But their faith in "free capitalism" is also grounded in religion. For example, giving welfare to lazy bums is immoral, and that's why Republicans oppose providing social safety nets for the poor.

I would not be surprised that no matter how much compromising and good will Obama shows to the Republicans, the result will be the same as in 1993, not a single Republican will vote for the stimulus and budget plans. I would not be surprised if Obama will be forced to put the economic stimulus plan as part of the budget plan as a way to get around the Republican fillibuster (You can't fillibuster appropriation bills).

What Obama should do is to shutdown the negotiation process when the Republicans still refuse to give in one inch. He should tell the American people that at least he tried. Then he needs to twist some arms to get the sixty votes needed to ram his original stimulus plan down the throats of the Republicans. He needs to do this quickly, because history suggests that the window of opportunity to make significant legislative change is in the first six months of the first term of a presidency.