Jonathan's Debate Thread

We'll have three separate threads going tonight, mostly because it's the easiest way to handle technical issues.

  • If McCain cared so much about the 9/11 Commission, why did he skip the vote on the implementation of the Commission's recommendations?
  • Again, McCain thinks Iraq is about winning or losing. No. It's about figuring out the best potential outcome at this juncture without continuing to send tens of billions of dollars to the country.
  • The night's third gaffe, which I missed: McCain not only mispronounced the name of the leader of Iran, he mispronounced the name of the Pakistani leader, too.
  • McCain rambling and rambling and rambling about Georgia is not becoming.
  • McCain: Let's get in a Cold War with Russia! (Except I don't believe we'll get in another cold war...)
  • The night's second gaffe: McCain still maligning Spain. Really?
  • The night's first gaffe: McCain can't pronounce Ahmadinejad. Whoops!

Earlier updates below the fold...

  • Very good from Obama... The greatest move to strengthen Iran in the last few years was the invasion of Iraq.
  • Would McCain's "League of Democracies" include Spain, which is thoroughly democratic, because McCain certainly went to lengths to malign Spain just this month.
  • League of Nations!
  • John McCain holding a pen... Bob Dole revisited?
  • This campaign is about the future, not the past. John McCain talks about Vietnam, and when he speaks about Iraq, he does so in the language of Vietnam -- winning versus losing, etc. This is not about the past. This is about the future, figuring out the best way out of Iraq. McCain may be stuck in the 1970s, but the American people are looking forward to a better 21st century.
  • Obama is making the argument that Afghanistan and Iraq are linked. Yes. But make the case more explicitly. The reason why we do not have enough troops in Afghanistan -- battling the Taliban, Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden -- is that the group led by Bush and McCain pushed for war in Iraq.
  • "Senate inside baseball." That's exactly what the McCain campaign is about. I said it earlier, and I'll say it again: McCain is sounding like a Senator, Obama is sounding like a President.
  • Very good. Obama does underscore that this was a failure of ideology, not of strategy. What's more, Obama goes back and hits the immense cost of the war.
  • McCain is really defending the rationale for the Iraq War? Really?
  • McCain has clearly not learned the lesson Iraq, that this was a failure of strategy. No. This was a failure of ideology. Invading countries unilaterally and preemptively DOES NOT WORK. Will Obama say this?
  • Again, Obama hit's the right not vis a vis Bush, that McCain has supported George W. Bush 90 percent of the time. Don't let up even as McCain tries to push back.
  • FINALLY. Obama talks about the cost of Iraq -- $10 billion per month -- as a cost that must be cut. Obama needs to continue on this avenue, even though McCain is trying to dissemble and move in another direction. Obama needs to disregard the distraction that is nuclear power and continue to hit the cost of the War, an issue upon which he has the strong support of voters.
  • Here's what it comes down to -- John McCain is sounding like a Senator while Barack Obama is sounding like a President.
  • McCain is really defending corporate tax cuts in response to Obama's populist attack about how such cuts don't help the middle class? Really?
  • McCain says that there are "people" under indictment for corruption related to earmarks. Yes. Those "people" are called "Republicans."
  • Great response from Obama on the earmark attack, noting that McCain is calling for $300 billion in tax cuts for corporations -- which don't even come close to being counteracted by $18 billion in cuts to earmarks proposed by McCain.
  • If McCain is against earmarks for research of bear DNA, was he against the money Sarah Palin requested for research of seal DNA? (And, for the record, I have seen no indication that Americans care about earmarks...)
  • Memo to Jim Lehrer: If Obama and McCain aren't itching to go after one another -- which for some reason they are not -- simply asking them to address one another ain't gonna do it.
  • Presumably at some point McCain will go on the attack, no? Because he's seeming awfully defensive so far, defending his shenanigans on the bailout bill, as well as for having called for the resignation of Chris Cox.
  • So McCain just said that he went back to Washington to fight for House Republicans? Is that really presidential?
  • Why can't John McCain look at camera?

Tags: Debate, White House 2008 (all tags)

Comments

26 Comments

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread
  • McCain remembered about ailing Kennedy
  • Obama was succinct
  • McCain a bit vague
by desipolitics 2008-09-26 05:10PM | 0 recs
how come he is not hitting mccain on

the GI Bill

by Monkei 2008-09-26 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread
  • Obama - How did we come here? We need 21st century solution
  • Obama - We haven't seen the language of bailout so not sure of its support
  • Obama: McCain didn't do much in 26 years. Common people were in trouble before this crisis hit.
  • little bit humor - look at the opponent when you talk
by desipolitics 2008-09-26 05:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread
  • Obama on the offensive but McCain is very restrained
  • McCain seems to be warming up for attach
  • Debate is heating up - Obama proposing 800B in new spending
by desipolitics 2008-09-26 05:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

Why is Obama stumbling so much?

He should have hit harder on the war. He also should hit back hard on health care.

by JDF 2008-09-26 05:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

So who ran up the deficit?  Oh yeah, it was George W. Bush.

Obama just slammed McCain for the Bush spending habits.  Awesome.  Should have brought up Clinton left us with a SURPLUS!

by jmnyc 2008-09-26 05:38PM | 0 recs
I think some of the snarky comments here are

driving voters to McCain.

by Concern Troll 2008-09-26 06:09PM | 0 recs
Re: I think some of the snarky comments here are

Lucky you are wrong.

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-26 06:32PM | 0 recs
Strong secnd half

I score the first half toss-up - no one really shined, but I honestly do think Obama is winning the second half.

by zonk 2008-09-26 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Strong secnd half

You don't  think McCain got his ass handed to him during the economic part?  The CNN analysists seem to disagree based on the scorecard.

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-26 06:33PM | 0 recs
Spain

Yowza.

by zonk 2008-09-26 06:13PM | 0 recs
What he does not understand...

If McCain says "What Senator Obama does not understand" one more time I am going to put my boot through the television.

by snowback 2008-09-26 06:15PM | 0 recs
Grandpa: "*I* know"
what an ASS. I was worried at the very beginning when McCain was pretending to be your jovial grandpa and Barack seemed a bit tense, but McCain's condescension has been off the charts for the last hour. Hats off to Barack Obama for having the patience and cool not to throttle him.
by chiefscribe 2008-09-26 06:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

My summary:

* Obama started slowly on his first response but steadily gained confidence when he realized McCain couldn't hurt him. It reminded me of a boxer gains momentum and arrogance round by round, with limber muscles and plenty of sting.

* Similar to the first point, a major part of Obama's confidence is level of opposition. This is hardly Hillary he's debating and I sensed Obama detected weakness and got more aggressive.

* McCain's words may look fine in print but he's botching the delivery, virtually whispering. I think it stems from seated debates in the GOP primaries. Obama is acting apropos to a standard podium debate, louder and more confrontational with eye contact. McCain is debating like he's seated a foot from the opponent. Seated debates are always overly tame.

* This is the most silent crowd I can remember at a presidential debate, virtually non-existent. It detracts from the atmosphere

* Obama needs to stop interrupting. I'm not hosting a debate watching party tonight but I've done it regularly since '96, and the apolitical women don't like interruptions

by Gary Kilbride 2008-09-26 06:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

"and the apolitical women don't like interruptions

That may be one of the strangest comments of the evening.....

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-26 06:21PM | 0 recs
If CNN's audience reaction ,means anything

no one really likes John McCain's condescension.... since Obama has proven himself quite capable on the issues, it just doesn't come off well.

The opponent has to look addled like Bush before you can pull off the condescension thing.

by zonk 2008-09-26 06:20PM | 0 recs
McCain must be tired--he's filibustering.
by chiefscribe 2008-09-26 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

My girlfriend HATES McCain's chuckling..

She said "No one likes a smarty pants..."

LOL!

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-26 06:25PM | 0 recs
Venezuela a rogue state?

WTF?

Obama, have you been drinking the kool aid?

by neaguy 2008-09-26 06:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Venezuela a rogue state?

you are a Moran....

by WashStateBlue 2008-09-26 06:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Venezuela a rogue state?

You mean Moron?

by yitbos96bb 2008-09-26 06:34PM | 0 recs
condescension

Seriously, how should Obama respond to McCain's continuous and grating repetition that Obama is "naive" and "doesn't understand."  

Is it better for him to ignore it and hope it make McCain look bad?  Did McCain score or hurt himself when he mocked Obama about what he would say to Ahmadinejad?

I kind of wish Obama would just throw down and say "John, you know it is getting pretty repetitive for us to hear your talking point about me being naive or not understanding.  I understand perfectly well how the world works.  I am very confident in my judgment, which is a considered and informed judgment.  I would take that over judgement that is reactive and belligerent."

by snowback 2008-09-26 06:27PM | 0 recs
Re: condescension

Well, McCain just went for it explicitly -- "Obama doesn't have the experience".  How will he respond?  

by snowback 2008-09-26 06:35PM | 0 recs
Re: condescension

Well, there is my answer.  Ignore the pettiness, focus on optimistism and the greatness of America.  

by snowback 2008-09-26 06:36PM | 0 recs
POW!!!

Almost missed the chance!

by snowback 2008-09-26 06:37PM | 0 recs
He had to throw it in there..

All in all, I think McCain was very annoyed and that made him rigid..

He didn't seem to want to engage.. Obama looked far more Presidential, but he didn't attack McCain as much as he could have when McCain lied.

by architek 2008-09-26 06:44PM | 0 recs

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