P & VP Thread

I spent last night listening to one of the greatest political events that I believe has ever happened. Being there while Obama gave his historic speech was a blast, and it was a speech that was everything a strong Democrat could want. Obama clearly is fighting to win this election, like I hoped he would.

Today, McCain chooses Palin in a pick that is a political earthquake. Her speech was done quite well, and she adds a ton McCain's chances. In some ways, she's Obama's worst fears, as she energizes the GOP base in a way like no other pick could have done. Their base is going to be fired up.

My guess is that Obama's bump is going to continue for today, but beyond that, who knows. The last thing we needed was a chance for the Republican Party to re-brand itself around reform and change. There's little doubt that Palin is inexperienced, but how that comes across depends on how she handles herself with the media.

I gotta get out of Denver, great place to be for the week, but time to get back to work in electing Democratic Senators.

Tags: 2008 (all tags)

Comments

152 Comments

Re: P & VP Thread

This is the "McCain think women is stupid" pick. And I say this as a woman who knows research well about voting patterns.

by politicsmatters 2008-08-29 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

So this woman, . . eh Palin has NO redeeming value any way whatsoever right? Terrible values, views, track-record, no character, integrity . . .

She's just a piece of woman flesh as bait for other women.

Thanks for clearing that up.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:14AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

You're right, the fact that she's a woman had absolutely nothing to do with the pick.  Sarah Palin's experience, positions, and national stature just jump off the page.

...rolls eyes...

by Jess81 2008-08-29 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread
Actually, I think her positions do all jump off the page, at least the ones that have been covered. They're all really really bad.
by TCQuad 2008-08-29 09:27AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

So this woman, . . eh Palin has NO redeeming value any way whatsoever right? Terrible values, views, track-record, no character, integrity . . .

As a person?  Absolutely.

As a progressive?  Absolutely not.

Imagine this:
Senator Clinton, having won a very close primary race against Senator Obama, picks Senator Biden as her running mate.

Then, on August 29, 2008, Senator John McCain announces his running mate - former Congressman J.C. Watts!

I bet you'd have been able to see the blatant pandering then ...

by Collideascope 2008-08-29 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

Exactly.   Look at the Howling that Jerome led on people like Napalitano or Sebelius.  These are women all with stronger records then Palin and those would have been pandering for Obama to go that route.

Give me a break.  If he really wanted to pick a qualified woman, there were many other GOP women with more experience than Palin

by gavoter 2008-08-29 10:04AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

Really - He could have picked Elizabeth Dole, who has even run for president. Or Kay Bailey Hutchinson.

by politicsmatters 2008-08-29 10:09AM | 0 recs
Well, that certainly seems to be McCain's opinion

Why else would he pick someone with zero experience? Why else would he so easily open himself up to charges of blatant hypocrisy?

by Covin 2008-08-29 10:06AM | 0 recs
Wow. MyDD -- back to your old tricks...

I am pretty happy that I managed to become a MyDD membership, just as this "bastion of Demoracy" board went into its last throes.

I know that a lot of you guys were for Hillary, and so it doesn't come as a huge surprise that you are now flocking to McCain. I can only hope, for the sake of our country and our planet, that you might all revise your positions before election day.

I bid thee all a farewell. I will not bother to post here anymore, and I refuse to visit this site again.

Oh, and to steal your thunder and burst your bubble (not to mention rain on your parade): Yeah, I know, I'm a traitor and a backstabber and good riddance and "we didn't need you anyway" and I'm an anti-feminist misogymist who hates Hillary and women and blah blah blah nobody cares.

by SammyJames 2008-08-29 10:22AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

and a sERious moose grudge.

by tinfoilhat 2008-08-29 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread
I agree with you that McCain thinks women are stupid. I imagine one of the reasons both sexes supported Hillary Clinton was because she actually had experience. It wasn't hard to imagine her as President. However, with Palin, oh my god! When I saw and heard her speech this morning, a shiver ran up my spine. That woman could end up being President. It was enough to make me want to move to Canada.
by zenful6219 2008-08-29 09:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin

Sarah is the perfect VP choice and will be the perfect VP. If you heard her VP speech you can tell she has a story to tell, and that story is AMERICA! She didn't have to hide anything about herself, like Obama. McCain & Palin 2008- NOW THAT'S A CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!!!

by jookie1234 2008-08-29 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin

shut up LOL

by Skaje 2008-08-29 11:04AM | 0 recs
Ultimately

Ultimately, I think this pick is going to backfire on McCain because it's a Hail Mary pass.

But it's wonderful to see someone so obscure elevated to such a vaunted national position so quickly.

This is an amazing election season.

On Palin, though, she's an excellent debater and speaker. She wiped the floor with Frank Murkowski in the governor's race. But I don't think she resonates with Hillary's core group. This rallies the base on the all-important pro-life cause, but besides that it's a Hail Mary act of desperation.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-08-29 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

Sorry, but I dont see how she's a plus. Up there, she looked like she had no idea what she was in for. She spoke like she was running for PTA president.

And I would be insulted if I were a Clinton supporter. Clinton put 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling, and THIS is the woman who is going to break it?

Are you kidding me? There's nothing there at all.

by BlueGAinDC 2008-08-29 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

Why not "she spoke like she was running for" ... dogcatcher (a man's position) rather than PTA president (generally a woman's position) tuck in that shirt . . . your sexism is showing and that is insulting.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:18AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

Because no one actually campaigns for dogcatcher, so there's no need to make a speech.

Slow your roll.

by MNPundit 2008-08-29 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

Will you apologize if I find you someone who actually ran for dogcatcher, spanky?

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

Spanky? WTF?

by MNPundit 2008-08-29 09:31AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

I think this person is trolling.

Check out the rest of the comments on this thread.

OUTRAGED!

Outraged at anything anybody has said.

by spacemanspiff 2008-08-29 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

The PTA thing is kind of insulting.  Try and check yourself before you say stuff.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

How? Seriously how?

1) PTA is stereotypically known as a petty position regardless. Whether you're a man or a woman it looks like suburban pettiness writ-large.

2) PTA is actual kind of an important position, more important than dog-catcher.

by MNPundit 2008-08-29 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

Cause she didn't speak was she was running for dog catcher. I didn't use PTA because thats a woman's thing.

I used PTA because that's what it sounded like. She sounded like she was in a high school gymnasium running for president of the PTA (oh and by the way, she was PTA president as she said in her speech).

It pisses me off that every time a comment is made that has anything to do with a gender people have to jump on it as sexist.

Your ignorance is showing.

by BlueGAinDC 2008-08-29 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: P & VP Thread

<<Cause she didn't speak was she was running for dog catcher.>>

So it seems you have familiarity with dog catcher stump speeches as you could clearly discern that speech was not like a woman running for dogcatcher speech

Great

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

You are being ridiculous and disingenuous. Now I see why McCain is acting a damn fool. The people like you supporting him are college Republicans who never grew up.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 09:44AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

Who the hell cares if she did or didn't sound like she's running for dog catcher. My observation was that she sounded like she was running for PTA president.

And I think I'm right. My mom said it, she is no sexist.

A inexperienced, anti-choice Woman was just selected as VP because she is a woman and McCain wants to trick women into going against their own best interests, and you are worried about my comparison being sexist?

by BlueGAinDC 2008-08-29 09:52AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

Tell your mom I'm sorry for disagreeing with her.  

Remember, Mom is alright right, young grasshopper.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

His point was that she doesn't know what she's gotten into. You know this. You can criticize the sexist remark, but at least address the rest of his commentary.

And by the way, Palin admitted it.

by Covin 2008-08-29 10:13AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

Huh?  The speech was pretty bad, what are you talking about?

by Bobby Obama 2008-08-29 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

Uprated.

by blueAZ 2008-08-29 09:55AM | 0 recs
Great reporting Jerome

Great job Jerome safe travels.

Palin's speech show's she's anything but a bumbling silver spoon-fed Quayle.  See if she can keep it up.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Great reporting Jerome

No she didn't sound like a dumbass...but she sounded like like a joke.

"I was just a hockey mom"

"I ran for PTA president!"

"I became mayor of my home town" ...where she "cut property taxes!"

Yeah!! Her biggest achievement is cutting property taxes and being a proud PTA soccer mom!!! yippe.

Is this really a woman who in the blink of an eye could become president of the United States? Is PTA soccer mom ready to handle the Congressional lion's den to get anything done other than cutting property taxes? This is a woman who can stare dictators in the face without blinking and command the United States military?

I'm sorry but that is what I thought from watching her joke of a speech. No, she's smarter than Quayle and we probably won't see any "potatoe" moments, but this woman is a joke, and that speech proved it.

by need some wood 2008-08-29 09:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Great reporting Jerome
I can see how running for PTA President will help her fight terrorists....yea....right. If McCain wins the White House, we better all pray to our God(s) that he lives out his term. Otherwise, we're screwed.
by zenful6219 2008-08-29 09:22AM | 0 recs
PTA, hockey mom

These are just some fillers for the resume - PTA president, hockey mom etc.

Sort of like community organizer, consitutional lecturer etc.

None of these help fight terrorists.

by gaf 2008-08-29 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: PTA, hockey mom

But you yourself said she wasn't ready.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Great reporting Jerome

really?  she was able to cut taxes in Alaska?  amazing.  imagine the resistance she had to overcome.

cough. cough.

by the mollusk 2008-08-29 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Great reporting Jerome

so the sum of your takeaway is that one "joke" speech from a simple "hockey mom, PTA prez, Mayor" not to mention City councilperson and Governor of a State  . . .

. . . makes this woman, Palin a JOKE, someone worth ridiculing in running for high office.

ok good

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Great reporting Jerome

yes, this is a partisan site, and it is election season. You know. Like a contest. There's a winner and loser. And you gotta work to make your side the winner.

by Metrobot 2008-08-29 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Great reporting Jerome

I'm all for partisanship but not at the expense of sexism, or racism, homophobia et al. . .

. . . but that's hard for some of you to grasp unfortunately.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Great reporting Jerome

Insulting a woman does not make someone sexist.

THIS woman IS a Joke.

I may not agree with the way Hillary Clinton ran a lot of her campaign, but there is no doubt that she was a champion for women and a fighter for us all.

THIS woman is not a champion for women, she is a publicity stunt.

by BlueGAinDC 2008-08-29 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Great reporting Jerome

LOL she cut property taxes.  That's all it takes, she's qualified now!!!

by Skaje 2008-08-29 11:08AM | 0 recs
Yeah I agree...

On first blush I though it was a terrible pick based strictly on her credentials...but having let it sink in for a bit I think McCain may have found the person that could put him over the top.

Alot of campaigning to go for sure, but the MSM is in love with her already and is certain to sweep the fact she is spectacularly inexperienced under the rug...

A terrible choice if she ever has to actually take the rigns...a great pick to get McCain elected.

by SaveElmer 2008-08-29 09:11AM | 0 recs
Now we know

which candidate is making choices based on the "desire to be President..."

This is the opposite of picking Joe Biden.

by JDF 2008-08-29 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

I think that old man McBush already had the support of most repugs already.  The democrats are just excited and more.  I don't think that the country is going to want to chance McBush dying and Palin being president when she has zilch foreign policy experience.  I know I would not trust this woman to run the country.

by Spanky 2008-08-29 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread
No foreign policy experience? MSNBC just pointed out that Alaska is the closest state to Russia, so that may count for something. No, I'm not kidding. They actually just said that.
by TCQuad 2008-08-29 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

I think it provides interesting chatter for a few days, but I really fail to see what she offers in terms of substance.  At least with Romney you could argue that he was "strong" on the economy and may be able to deliver a state or two.  Biden and Obama can keep hammering away at McCain, but what's he going to respond with?  That Obama's "inexperienced"?  That argument left the building.

by rfahey22 2008-08-29 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

My office mate from Kuwait thinks that she could be used to turn the experience argument up.  If we go after her, McRovesh can respond with well doesn't that kinda mean you aren't experienced enough either?  Or a pot-kettle-black defense.

by patooker 2008-08-29 09:27AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

Obama probably won't attack her experience.  It does eliminate McCain's only substantive attack on Obama, leaving only character attacks.

by CA Pol Junkie 2008-08-29 09:39AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

the correct attack won't be that she's inexperienced, it'll be that McCain was never serious about "ready to lead" the whole time. He thinks Obama has enough experience cuz he chose Palin. So if experience isn't the issue, why is McCain running again?

McCain just gutted the entire logic to his own campaign.

Maybe....

by Metrobot 2008-08-29 09:43AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

The correct response:
1. So, Mr. McCain, if you don't think Obama has experience to lead and be President, does that mean that you don't think that your own Vice President has enough experience to be President, should something happen to you?

2. So, Mr. McCain, you say you want to combat corruption and abuse of power in Washington? Why did you pick a Vice Presidential candidate who has her own problems with corruption, and is subject to an investigation in her home state of Alaska.

3.  So, Mr. McCain, do you believe that creationism should be taught in schools and evolution should not be taught in schools? If you do not think that creationism should be exclusively taught in schools, why did you pick a running mate who dose believe that?

4.  So, Mr. McCain, do you believe that global warming is occurring? If you do, why did you pick a running mate who does not believe in the climate crisis?

5.  Mr. McCain, does your V.P. fully believe in your energy policy? She did voice some support for Obama's energy policy you know.

6. ... should I go on?

by johnrarch 2008-08-29 10:12AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

...but time to get back to work in electing Democratic Senators.

You sat through the same convention we all watched on TV, and you still can't commit to putting in your all to get Obama elected?  Why even have this site?

by Dreorg 2008-08-29 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: VP Thread

I think it's safe to say that McCain just won the VP-selection contest decisively over Obama.  

Biden is an old, boring, DC insider, and more qualified than the top half of the ticket.  Palin is new, about as far from DC as you can get, and more conservative than McCain, shoring up his support on the right.  

Her inexperience would be a liability given McCain's age and health, but bringing it up risks raising the issue of Obama's inexperience.

Obviously a pro-drilling pro-life red state governor isn't going to attract many Hillary supporters, but McCain wasn't going to anyway.

Palin may also serve to draw back some of the Ron Paul crowd, which was otherwise leaning toward Barr.  Keep in mind that Ron Paul topped double digits in the Republican primaries in over a dozen states.  

 

by Lex 2008-08-29 09:18AM | 0 recs
Re: VP Thread

I don't see it.  Ron Paul was, first and foremost, an anti-war Republican.  His phenomenon depended upon that contradiction.  I see no indication that either of these people would be the slightest bit anti-war.

I guess it could motivate conservative voters in places like Colorado and Ohio - two critical states to Obama's victory this year.  It may also put Virginia solidly out of play this year.  So we're back to where we've been all along - Obama has to win Colorado.

by the mollusk 2008-08-29 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: VP Thread
He was also an anti-X Republican, where X was any word in the English language.
by TCQuad 2008-08-29 09:31AM | 0 recs
Re: VP Thread

gold standard anyone?

by the mollusk 2008-08-29 09:33AM | 0 recs
Re: VP Thread

I disagree.  Biden is going to wipe the floor with her when they debate and its going to actually make McCain look like the risky choice instead of Obama if she doesn't hold her own on the campaign trail for the next few months / against Biden.

I don't know enough about her to know if she'll hold up, but I'm guessing neither does McCain.  There's a chance she could sink the ticket if she makes too many rookie mistakes, where as, Biden is as seasoned as it gets.  Sure he may put his foot in his mouth once or twice, but he'll NEVER come across as not knowing what he's talking about.  I'm not sure the same can be said for Palin.

by blueryan 2008-08-29 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: VP Thread

So what if we can't attack the GOP ticket's experience?  We weren't doing that anyway - that was their argument.  When you've just picked someone who's been Governor for less time than Barack Obama has been campaigning, I don't see how you can keep it up.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: VP Thread

I have to disagree with you. I think it is a fairly bizarre choice.

You can definitely criticize her experience, as Obama, and get away with it. All you have to do is bring it up in the context of McCain's criticisms of Obama's own "inexperience."

If experience is so important to McCain and the office of the presidency, then why did he pick a VP who is even less seasoned than Obama? How can he possibly criticize Barack on that point now, without looking incredibly foolish?

It's a hypocritical choice, if nothing else.

On top of that, in many ways, Palin just overshadows McCain. She's more intelligent, more charismatic, and probably more in touch than he is. Not to mention she's far more telegenic.

by Covin 2008-08-29 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: VP Thread

Because VP is a on-the-job training type position and President is not. . . we'll push the experience angle on Palin but I don't feel that will stick.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:35AM | 0 recs
Re: VP Thread

You don't attack Palin for inexperience, because that's pointless.  You attack McCain's hypocrisy for claiming that "experience" was the end-all be-all of qualifications for the presidency when, out of the other corner of his mouth, he tells the world that Palin is ready to be the President should he drop dead the day after the inauguration.  It's clear that this whole "experience" issue was nothing more than a talking point.

by rfahey22 2008-08-29 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: VP Thread

I agree that experience is nothing more than a talking point but I don't believe the rethugs will let it go since they'll say duties of President and VP are worlds apart.  Plus they'll say she can learn to be President while VP.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: VP Thread

Not good enough.

Is she ready to be President right now?  Yes or no.  If the answer is no, we have a problem.  If it's yes, then what was all that claptrap about Obama not being experienced enough?

If you're a Republican, you can't say "sure, she's not ready to lead, but she will be, at some point."  You have to say "yes, absolutely, she's prepared to be commander-in-chief."  In which case the experience issue is gone.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 02:18PM | 0 recs
Yeah right

Are you referring to Dan Quayle? Because you certainly aren't talking about Dick Cheney or Al Gore. Please. We are talking about the second highest executive office in the country. If McCain croaks, this is who he chose to lead the country.

Through the lens of hypocrisy, Obama can easily criticize McCain's decision.

by Covin 2008-08-29 09:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah right

Gore had no sway in the Clinton admin other than the typical ceremonial duties.

Under Bush(Cheney) the VP power and duties were as expansive as maybe any VP in history by an order of magnitude.

Who's to say with the departure of Bush-Cheney the VP role doesnt' revert back to the mean as a largely optical but inconsequential position.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah right

Gore's reinventing government was taken up by the Clinton admin and he got full credit

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 01:20PM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

Palin locks Alaska up for McCain but will do nothing for Don Young or Ted Stevens. As a matter of fact, it may hurt Young even more.

by RandyMI 2008-08-29 09:18AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

What about electing a Democratic PRESIDENT!!!!!!

by helo 2008-08-29 09:20AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

This is certainly a splashy pick, as in, "really?  Palin?"  But I'm not sure it works.  Wasn't McCain supposed to be the bipartisan wonder?  Think about it this way.  What's the difference between her and someone like Ralph Reed or Mike Huckabee?  Oh yeah, she's a woman with much less experience.  Very bizarre.

The big pitfall for the Dems is that pretty woman garner oodles more sympathy from the media than practically any other demographic.  So if the Dems beat up on her too much, you get the inevitable backlash from the "Inside Edition" crowd.

by the mollusk 2008-08-29 09:21AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

I wouldn't overestimate her conservative values. She's from Alaska, she HAS to run to the right. But she's made some awfully provocative statements on things like abortion, drugs, gay rights and more.

SHE might be the David Souter (or John Tyler) of this election.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

The wingers and god squaders love Palin.  They never loved or trusted Souter, even before they found out that he wasn't their kind of conservative.  Palin is not a Trojan Horse - she's beloved by the NLRC, Club for Growth, Dobson, The Corner, etc.  And there's a reason - she's as far right as they come.

by OGLiberal 2008-08-29 09:30AM | 0 recs
Oh Please Jerome

This is a desperation pick by McCain, and everyone can smell it. Women are not going to fall for the "Hey look, I picked a woman VP" trick--especially not a woman who opposes her own gender's fundamental rights. It's incredibly obvious what he's trying to do.

On top of that, after all his criticism of Obama for being inexperienced, he made a pick who makes Barack look like FDR. People will pick up on the hypocrisy once the Dems start rolling out the ads that point this out.

Not to mention that they just look awkward together. A creepy old man and an intelligent, attractive woman? Have fun marketing that.

by Covin 2008-08-29 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Oh Please Jerome

that's my big question. Do they look good together? (can't watch cuz at work) I think (or is it hope?) her good looks accentuate his creepiness.

by Metrobot 2008-08-29 09:47AM | 0 recs
And sadly

Things like this do matter to people. They might not consciously realize it, but it does matter. They look at this ticket and think, "That looks a little odd," whereas nothing looks odd when Biden and Obama are together.

I can't picture Palin and McCain in the White House together. I think that counts for a lot.

by Covin 2008-08-29 09:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Oh Please Jerome

In answer to your question..

YES......MY...FRIENDS.....

by johnrarch 2008-08-29 10:15AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

OK, I think we got it. Picked this up from Andrew Sullivan, written by Brendan Loy:

[T]he thrust of the Dems' argument will not be that Palin is too inexperienced; it will be that McCain is being disingenuous when he argues that Obama is too inexperienced. This argument will gain wide acceptance among the pundit class, and it will also succeed with voters -- largely because it is correct, and obviously & instinctively so.

We don't need or want to go after Palin. Voters who like her can feel very happy about voting for her in years to come when she's had more experience. This is about a man who is making choices for all the wrong reasons. A non-serious man who will literally say or do anything to get elected. This is about McCain arguing that he puts Country before the Election. And it's about us being able to say, "that's not true."

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

Not you directly but, it's discouraging to read post after post of ". . . it's a pandering to women pick"

Why can't people assess Palin on the content of her record and character instead of zone in on that line of crap.

Let's win on the policies, ideas and characters of our individuals rather than sexism and racism.

by wasanyonehurt 2008-08-29 09:23AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

Yes lets ignore what it is... good call!

She invoked Hillary and the glass ceiling. She practically made a call to arms for women.

It is the reason she was picked and that does matter.

by JDF 2008-08-29 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

Because whether or not that is true, it is why McCain picked her. It isn't that she isn't a worthy candidate, it's that her appeal was made largely from conservative male bloggers (a SERIOUSLY lecherous group of people). And McCain picked at the last minute, we know this. How is it not a pander?

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

"Why can't people assess Palin on the content of her record and character instead of zone in on that line of crap." -Seriously?

She was governor for 2 years. I mean McCain has been attacking Obama like crazy for not being ready and he picks someone whose been governor of an extremely sparsly populated state for 2 years.  You honestly mean to tell me that you can say with a straight face you're not 100% sure she was picked because McCain is pandering to women? Give me a break...

by blueryan 2008-08-29 09:32AM | 0 recs
No

She's been governor for LESS THAN 2 years.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

Your post is silly. So in order to win on the things you mention we are suppose to ignore when cyincal ploys  like these are being used?

by bruh3 2008-08-29 09:39AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

She didn't choose herself.  McCain picked her.  Why?

If you can figure that one out without it being a pander, then you're seeing something that I'm not.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

I think this was a desperation pick and purely based on an electoral strategy.  Palin may be an impressive person but she's certainly more inexperienced than Obama.  She's far right.  She anti-choice and makes an exception only if the life - not health - of a woman is at risk.  Rape?  Incest?  You're on your own.  She's behind teaching creationism in schools.  She's adored by the far right of the GOP.

The base, even though they didn't like him, was already giving McCain about 90% of the GOP vote.  He isn't going to get much more than that.  She may make them more enthusiastic, but we know the GOP is all about winning - they don't need to be enthusiastic to go out to vote.  Only we Dems need to be fired up. (which is one reason why we often lose these things)

If you are a progressive - man or woman - and McCain's selection of Palin causes you to throw your vote to the GOP candidate, then I can only come to two conclusions - you are being childish because Hillary lost or you are clueless.  Or both.

Seriously, this woman couldn't hold a candle to Hillary Clinton.  And she's as far right as they go.  I think the former Hillary supporters who were going to vote for McCain have already made that decision.  Even Obama picking her as veep wouldn't change their mind. (believe me, I've read their comments on their wacky blogs and that's what most of them say)  Palin is not going to the remaining undecided Dem/Dem leaners over to McCain's side.  Not going to happen.

by OGLiberal 2008-08-29 09:26AM | 0 recs
I see the future.....

GOP used sexism against Hilary, watch them do reverse sexism now.

Biden & Palin will debate, If Biden comes of too strong and attacks. They'll say he is picking on a woman.

by cobsjo 2008-08-29 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: I see the future.....

To which the Democrats will answer, "Why do the Republicans keep bringing up racism and sexism in this campaign when we have done neither?"

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 09:30AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

Hillary Clinton and her supporters didn't put 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling for Sarah Palin to take advantage of all the hard work HRC and her supporters did...

Sarah Palin is NO Hillary Clinton. Shame on her for trying to take advantage of Hillary's extraordinary campaign.

PS: Been an Obama supporter since 2007...

by NJPolitico84 2008-08-29 09:29AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

it shows

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 01:22PM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

Okay, I've been a Hillary Clinton supporter since 2000, and I'm just fine with working my ass off so that the party that demonized her in the first place can piggy back off of all my work in order to elect a fundamentalist.

There.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 02:23PM | 0 recs
Homerun?

As I said before I think it was a good pick for McCain.  It may be an excellent pick.

The list we've heard for ever was a minefield that threatened to make conervatards flee.  Palin is very well liked by the right and it appears McCain will have a chance to re-unite his party next week.

McCain the "hugger" (Bush hugger) is trying to make people think he is a maverick, regardless of facts.   He goes and pulls a surprise pick who is a D.C. outsider to boot.

Palin's inexperience may actually serve as a platform for Republicans to attack Obama for lack of experience.  Palin's and Obama's tenure in government service, both locally and nationally is similar.   Do we call her inexperienced without leaving our own chins open for a big GOP counterpunch on comparing the resumes?

McCain wants to take full advantage of women still stinging from the double whammy of a Clinton loss, Clinton not being the V.P.   As some have pointed out Palin is a women.

McCain needs to close the gap with all women, not just Clinton women.  Again, Palin is a women.

McCain managed his roll out perfectly.  There was not a two day stakeout of the obvious pick to ruin the surprise.   McCain managed to stay in the news cycle on Obama's big day, and he managed to take over the news cycle a mere 12 hours after Obama left the stage in Denver.

But I am also thinking of another GOP line of attack.   Remember in the spring when the GOP pundits were actively trying to sow seeds of discontent when commenting on our race.   They said Obama was arrogant and suggested he may be sexist and indifferent to women's views.  They may be looking push this theme.  Hillary not getting the nod is probably what seeled this deal.

by RichardFlatts 2008-08-29 09:32AM | 0 recs
I agree

Not picking Hillary is what sealed the deal. Politically, in the short term, this is a brilliant move for McCain.

But given Palin's scandal problem and her only 18 months in office, many independents and Hillary supporters could very well view this as an affirmative action pick. Although Obama is not that experienced either, there is no question that he is a great political talent. On the other hand, you could tell today by her speech that Palin is a political novice on the national stage.

by Zzyzzy 2008-08-29 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: I agree

A large part of Obama winning is that he is pretty.

Palin is pretty too.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 01:23PM | 0 recs
How dare you!!!!

How dare you say Barack is better looking than Hillary!!!

How dare you say Hillary is inferior looking!!!

SEXIST!!!!

by Al Rodgers 2008-08-29 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

The area where she could be effective for McCain is in the energy policy arena. As much as I disagree with the concept of more drilling in ANWR, this is an area where the Republicans are getting some traction now and she is firmly behind drilling. This is the one area where she concerns me.

Other than that, I think people are going to look at a candidate who is a heartbeat away from the presidency, backing up the oldest nominee in history, and have a lot of concerns. I mean this person was the mayor of a town of 8000 people less than two years ago. And yes, she now has executive experience, but the number of voters it takes to get elected Governor of Alaska (don't know the exact numbers) is pretty tiny. This is somebody who has never demonstrated the ability to convince a large number of people to support her. And nothing she said today gave me too much fear that she is going to be a powerhouse on the trail.

by wasder 2008-08-29 09:32AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-08-29 11:13AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

She's a creationist.  Thinks Creationism should be taught in schools.  

by Piuma 2008-08-29 09:34AM | 0 recs
Mentioned that...

...to the friend/co-worker who, like most people, didn't know too much about her and was saying it was a "progressive" pick that should not be underestimated.  His response "I did not know that! Creationism, oy vey!"

It's an interesting pick and will likely help him (at least stem the bounce) in the short term, but unless she turns out to be an Obama-like force, it will likely turn into another Dan Quayle...and Obama is no Dukakis.

by thurst 2008-08-29 11:39AM | 0 recs
It's a great distraction

from McCain. Now she can help to keep McCain's policy message away from the public now that Hillary is officially out of the race. With more attention on Palin and 'will they win over Hillary voters' the media will have less reason to actually compare Obama and McCain on any number of issues. On the plus side, perhaps it will draw more attention to women's rights, equal pay, etc.

by musicsleuth 2008-08-29 09:38AM | 0 recs
Home Run?! Try Foul Ball To The Face

She's chirpy and a MILF, and people like Andrea Mitchell and that African-American pundette on CNN are gushing about her, but with that scandal brewing with her brother-in-law and the revelation that she's only managed a town of 9,000 people, this proves to me that McCain have been in full-bore panic mode ever since the "how many houses" gaffe.

Only the evangelicals are backflipping, and in this election that's going to boomerang and boomerang badly - the fundies are part of the same corrupt Republicanism that Obama kicked the crap out of last night.

This reeks of total desperation, and in the end I bet it gives Obama at least three more points in the final

by Edgewater Joe 2008-08-29 09:40AM | 0 recs
Brilliant

Do I like Palin?  Hell no.  She is a brilliant pick for McCain, though, on many many levels.  I think this is a game changer.  Even if she takes 3% of the women vote away from Obama- it's a problem.  You see how this is bad?  I don't think she will scare any of the sexist Repub men because she's VP not President.  

I think the Obama camp just started seriously regretting letting Hillary go...................................

by easyE 2008-08-29 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Brilliant

You probably thought Ferraro was a brilliant pick.

But hey, maybe McDesperate will lose 49 states too. In that case, I will agree it was a brilliant pick --  for Obama.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Brilliant

Obama44

Someday you and I will want the same thing and be on the same political side.

Before that day you need to get your game straightened out.

1)  Don't deny the obvious unless you have a very interesting story to go along with.  3% of women is a very conservative swing vote if you think its wrong use facts or arguemnts.

2)  Ferraro was a pick of a nominee who was FAR behind where McCain is now.  And McCain hasn't had his convention yet.

Don't rush you don't need to get it straightened out now just get it in gear by the time we agree.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 01:27PM | 0 recs
I Agree

The incentive for Republicans to pick a woman on the national ticket has been there for a long time. Ever since the famous gender gap opened up in the 1980s. Historically, Republican women have run strong against Democratic men (Although I have to admit I saw the statistical study way back in the 1990s - The study showed that Republican women won 60% of the time even though Republicans won barely more than 40% of the time as a whole). There is a tendency for Republicans to stick together regardless of race and gender of their candidate. On the other hand, Republicans picking a woman candidate does win over some Democratic women voters.

Palin has a reputation of being a reformer, and this out of the box pick makes it difficult for Obama to say that McCain is really just McSame. But Palin is going to have to survive a real tough investigation of abuse of power allegations against her.

by Zzyzzy 2008-08-29 10:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Brilliant

Wrong.  Guess who can shot about 18 million holes through this VP choice?  

Hillary Clinton can, and she doesn't have to be VP to do it.

by fogiv 2008-08-29 10:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Brilliant

sorry to correct you but she can't argue that Obama is better for her voters because he gave her precisely

Zero
Nada
Zip

And don't count 2 speeches where her and hubby had to kiss his ass.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 01:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Brilliant

Okay that's absolute horseshit - not only have his donors personally paid down over a million dollars of her debt, but his platform is virtually identical to hers.

You're so wrong that I don't even know what you mean.  Like are you talking about giving her bribes?  Promising her friends cushy jobs?  What.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Brilliant

VP should have been hers.

Now he risks losing over being it.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Brilliant

Now he risks losing over being it?  Ooooooh, why didn't you say so in the first place.  That makes perfect sense.

WTF?!?!?

by fogiv 2008-08-29 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

When we see the numbers on Mon and Tues, and they still have Obama up by 3 or more points- will you aknowledge that you didn't know what you were talking about here?

by bruh3 2008-08-29 09:41AM | 0 recs
Trapper John at Kos

made a terrific point about Palin's inexperience extending beyond foreign policy, but to agricultural issues and to urban issues, as Alaska has neither an agricultural industry or a large urban center.

by magster 2008-08-29 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Trapper John at Kos

Palin offers nothing but a distraction from Obama's speech last night.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 10:10AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

oh- and will you admit that maybe the vp choice isn't a "game changer' but instead more of a do no harm type of issue?

by bruh3 2008-08-29 09:43AM | 0 recs
Make It About McCain's Judgment

Turn his "he'd rather win an election, then win a war," on him.  Say: John McCain, would rather win an election, then put country first.  Does John McCain truly believe his vice-presidential pick will be able to successfully manage the fates of 300 million Americans if needed?

by venavena 2008-08-29 09:43AM | 0 recs
An ultra-conservative is somehow a maverick?

We need to immediately stress how out of touch she is on issues like abortion.  She is extremely move conservative than most Americans - yet the press has hailed her a maverick??  I hope NARAL and other groups hammer her on social issues.

by TarHeelinGA 2008-08-29 09:51AM | 0 recs
Re: An ultra-conservative is somehow a maverick?

She has no idea how intense the scrutiny is going to be.  

by venavena 2008-08-29 09:55AM | 0 recs
Palin a Brilliant Pick

McCain energized the Republican base, but also made an appeal to Hillary Clinton supporters in one stroke. Palin has a compelling life story and his a heroine of the Right to Life movement by refusing to abort her child during pregnancy even though she knew that the fetus had Down's Syndrome. As a former beauty queen she has a lot of poise. Although Biden was a good governing (and certainly much better than Palin) choice for Obama, not picking Hillary opened the door for McCain to pick a woman VP, which in my opinion was the best way and possibly only way for McCain to win this election.

But Palin is a risky choice, too. She will be a disaster for the ticket if investigators find that she abused her power as governor in firing a government employee simply because that employee refused to fire Palin's brother-in-law. Also, although she delivered a well written speech, you could tell that she is a very unpolished speaker. Her voice was much more high pitched than her ordinary normal voice and she seemed at times not to speak into the microphone. She also seemed a little bit awed by the event. But if Palin can polish up her act, and we find that there is nothing to the scandal, Palin will become Obama's worst nightmare.

by Zzyzzy 2008-08-29 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin a Brilliant Pick

But if Palin can polish up her act

Campaigning for VP doesn't lend itself to learning on the job.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 10:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Palin a Brilliant Pick

Nor does campaigning for president.

Obama isn't ready.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 01:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Palin a Brilliant Pick

I won't pollute this site by engaging in disruptive arguments with McTrolls.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 01:47PM | 0 recs
Paul Begala said it best

Palin's choice is a threat to national security.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/b egala.palin/index.html

by ann0nymous 2008-08-29 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Paul Begala said it best

LOL! "a state with more reindeer than people."

1. Is that true?
2. Can Biden use that one?

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 09:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Paul Begala said it best

I sense a santa clause joke somewhere

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 01:31PM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

I think a good response to this is:

You guys keep saying how much you admire Hillary, and now you nominate Palin.... Well we voted for Hillary, we worked with Hillary and Palin's no Hillary.

Try and adapt the Lloyd Bentsen line of attack, sell Palin as some pale immitation of the real deal i.e. Hillary.

Obama now needs Hillary more than ever, we need Clinton on the sunday shows. Remember how Obama wasn't allowed to pick Sebelius?? Well lets try and get the same kind of thing going against Palin.

by liberalj 2008-08-29 09:56AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

That could actually work. It's not like Biden doesn't come across as warm and friendly when he's being tough. I think he's like the type of boss who can make you feel like they care about you AS they are firing you for incompetence.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 10:00AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

I agree but isn't there a danger Biden is going to come over as the well meaning but accidentally sexist and patronising boss if he attacks Palin the wrong way?

The curse of being a progressive if that we spend years fighting for things against conservatives, then they turn around and pretend like they were onboard all along.

by liberalj 2008-08-29 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

Yes, which is why it is INSANELY vital for Obama's people to run him through sensitivity boot camp.

by vcalzone 2008-08-29 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

Biden won't patronize Palin. He won't need to in order to squash her like a bug.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 10:17AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

Like Ferraro, Palin was picked solely because of her gender and affiliation to the party's base.

How many electoral votes did it get for Mondale?

by Obama44 2008-08-29 09:57AM | 0 recs
Opportunity

Maybe we can get some attention on the scandals in Alaska:  "Tubes" Stevens, "Bridge" Young, Veco oil, all the Alaska corrpution, etc.  Did McSame just highlight the Alaska mud surrounding the former beauty pageant contestant and all the Alaska GOPigs?  

I'd be interested in hearing the reaction from candidates Begich and Berkowitz, and what they have to say about Palin.

And don't forget that Senator Stevens' corrpution trial will be underway.  

She also has her own scandal.  Can the Alaska state house initiate impeachment proceedings against her?  The timing would be perfect.  

Also, what was her position on the Iraq war?  She needs to be asked about foreign policy.  What is her plan for Iraq?  Should we go to war with Iran?  What should the U. S. do about Russia and Georgia?  

Finally, now is the time for Senator Clinton to come out roaring.  She can attack Governor Palin like no other can.  

by Airpower 2008-08-29 09:58AM | 0 recs
Abuse of Power

That's the opportunity of the Democrats. To highlight that Palin is no reformer.

However, Palin did speak out against "the bridge to nowhere." Thus, bringing up the Alaskan scandals could backfire.

by Zzyzzy 2008-08-29 10:20AM | 0 recs
My Take; Jerome is now a GOP concern troll

Basically, Jerome says that the Palin pick is doomsday for Obama and that hr speach was "done quite well".  I;m sorry, but this analysis is too ridiculous to be believable. I mean... even if you decide to play nicely on the Palin pick, you have to acknowledge that her lack of experience, daftness (from all accounts), extreme right-wing ideology and ethical issues are serious negatives to the GOP ticket.  AS for the speech, by any objective standard (think of any speech at the DNC), it was pretty damn bad and at best mediocre.  

Here is my take: Jerome has gone to the dark side Obama dn he can't find his way back.  If you Jerome's recent posts, he always (either explicitly or subtly) makes efforts to undermine the Obama candidacy.  Jerome wants Obama to lose.  

by JCPOK 2008-08-29 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: My Take; Jerome is now a GOP concern troll

Jerome wants Obama to lose.

No problem. He doesn't matter in Democratic politics anymore.

by Obama44 2008-08-29 10:15AM | 0 recs
Re: My Take; Jerome is now a GOP concern troll

Neither does Hillary

Or her half of the party...

So short sighted my young padiwan.

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 01:33PM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

This pick smacks of last minute. I don't know what time Palin boarded the plane to Dayton, but Team McCain might have been so stunned by the speech that they needed to do something drastic. I think Pawlenty thought HE had it last night. I promise you that she was not thoroughly vetted.

by RandyMI 2008-08-29 10:22AM | 0 recs
John McDecrepit + Sarah the Unready.

I think the mental image of McCain in the oval office with Sarah Palin just down the hall, chiming in on behalf of God and women, will be extremely appealing to a lot of people.  I also agree that the image of Sarah Palin actually sitting in the oval office will scare the living hell out of nearly everyone.  So our task is crystal clear, but tricky, because nobody likes to be reminded that grampa might die soon.  I wouldn't want the job, but I will be facinated to see how the message folks go about doing this -- maybe someone will leak actuarial tables to Olbermann?  On the other hand, I predict we will see a lot more of McCain's mother next month, maybe hang-gliding, or visiting Tbilisi.

by snowback 2008-08-29 10:34AM | 0 recs
The Argument Obama Should Make

Sarah Palin is an affirmative action pick. She does not have the experience that Clinton has, and has even less experience than Obama. Although Obama doesn't have much Washington experience, he his perhaps the most talented politician today. At today's announcement, you could tell that the starry eyed Palin is a political novice.

by Zzyzzy 2008-08-29 10:35AM | 0 recs
Re: The Argument Obama Should Make

If he is so talented why is everyone calling for Hillary to save him?

by dtaylor2 2008-08-29 01:35PM | 0 recs
Re: The Argument Obama Should Make

Because she's the second most prominent Democrat in the country.  It's a team effort.  We need everyone to help out.

What are you so pissed off about?

by Jess81 2008-08-29 02:31PM | 0 recs
Let Hillary loose on her

Hard to claim she is sexist.  Let her make the obvious points about Palin.  

by Do Something 2008-08-29 10:39AM | 0 recs
The Invisible Family Values Elephant

What kind of woman gives birth to a special needs baby on April 19th, 2008, shows up for work on Monday the 22nd, and then four months later agrees to take on the rigors of a national campaign for Vice President potentially followed by four years of dawn to dusk work getting up to speed on national and international affairs.

My God everything really is IOKIYAAR. If this was a Democrat James Dobson and Phyllis Shafley would be jumping up an down in unision shrieking everything but 'baby killer'.

I am just not sure how this goes down among the home schoolers and the stay at home moms. "I'm 100% devoted to my family and my new baby, except of course for my day job as Vice President of the United States"

by Bruce Webb 2008-08-29 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: The Invisible Family Values Elephant

I agree that some repubs may feel the way you describe -- the same ones who always seethe with envy at the Hillary Clintons, Teresa Heinzes and Michelle Obamas of the world.  I am certainly no Palin apologist and the idea of another George W. Bush in the oval office, with or without a penis, makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit.  But I am scratching my head about the "what kind of woman" part of your post.  Is that you talking, or are you putting quotes around that and imagining it being said by Dobson?  Because I know we don't want to be the party that says women can only participate in public life after menopause.  Or the party that says maybe she should she get paid less than Biden, because, you know, she can't possibly put in the same kind of hours what with taking care of the kids and all.  I just don't see how we can successfully attack a woman for having a disabled baby and then accepting a nomination to public office.

by snowback 2008-08-29 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

You are completely off base with your analysis, Jerome.  Completely.  While I don't want to underestimate her, this is not a good choice.  Not only for McCain, but for the country.  

Instead of rambling on about why I feel this way, it's best to just read what Paul Begala wrote on CNN as he says it better than I can:

Is McCain out of his mind?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/b egala.palin/index.html

by RussTC3 2008-08-29 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Thanks for this link, good article.

For me, it raises the question, exactly who is McCain hoping to appeal to with this pick?  The GOP is basically a collection of interest groups and ideological factions.  Which one[s] was McCain hoping to secure here?  Does he really think he can steal enough women voters to win the election?  Interesting choice.

by half nelson 2008-08-29 11:08AM | 0 recs
VP Picks Do Not Make A Difference

Name me one VP pick, other than LBJ, in the last 50 yrs that swung an election.  If the VP race was important, Bentsen v Quayle would have put Dukakis over the top.  People vote the top of the ticket.  

This probably helps McCain b/c it changes the conversation for a couple of days but will have little to no long term impact.  It also removes McCain's only decent argument against Obama - experience.  What are McCain's ads going to look like now?

In the end, the race is about who you want to lead the country - McCain or Obama.  Biden v Palin is a secondary consideration at best.  Based on what I saw last night, I don't have a lot of doubt about where that discussion is headed and it is not turf friendly to McCain.

by jmnyc 2008-08-29 11:31AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

I actually found it insulting that she would compare herself to Hillary Clinton. Hillary puts "the 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling" and Sarah Palin, former mayor of a village of 5,000 people and Governor of Alaska for a year and a half is going to break it? Please.

This pick reeks of political desperation and McCain wanted to score some cheap points. Picking her absolutely undercuts his experience argument against Obama. And honestly...this woman is going to debate Joe Biden?

by wjpugliese 2008-08-29 11:41AM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread
Jerome, after years of lurking and commenting occasionally, i've decided that you aren't a very good political analyst.
Here's the perception that will prevail:
Palin is like "She's the Sheriff" on steroids. She has an air of small town sensibility that plays well to rural ideals, but she will be seen as a local yokel jokel on an international stage.
Sending a creationist around Europe to mend fences? That's what VP's do. Put her next to Biden? She doesn't even know what the duties entail!
Ted Stevens is her buddy!
How does one care for a Down's syndrome child when one is busy
campaigning to be Creepy VP?
Fail.
by Zorkon 2008-08-29 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

Jerome, you've really got a tin ear  (i hope...)

by bluedavid 2008-08-29 01:06PM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp;amp; VP Thread

Anyone whose most recent prediction was that the ticket was going to be Obama/Daschle (yes, I know, wtf) has got to be taken with a grain of salt.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 02:34PM | 0 recs
ditto jerome?

don't be so hard, after all Jerome rejected my diary predicting Biden's selection.

by Al Rodgers 2008-08-29 02:40PM | 0 recs
Oh, Jerome..

...you just get out of Denver and back to your electing Democratic senators. Are you ever going to get your panties out of a knot?

You got your precious feelings hurt when your candidate didn't win months ago and thus continue to stir the pot with all this foaming at the mouth for a desperate GOP VP pick.

Jerome, what a poor excuse for a Democratic Party blogger you are. Go ahead and work for your Democratic senators - we'll take care of POTUS - you passive-agressive little prick. Have you no shame?

"game-changer" my ass.

by Goober Pea 2008-08-29 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Oh, Jerome..

That's not fair - Jerome gave a really good review of the speech last night.  I know, so did everyone else, but it surprised me.

by Jess81 2008-08-29 02:35PM | 0 recs
God - it's been three months

when is he going to get over it.

actually it's been a lot longer.  Even the other front pagers on this site threw in the towel when she failed to meet expectations in Indiana and NC.

by Al Rodgers 2008-08-29 02:36PM | 0 recs
Re: P &amp;amp; VP Thread

Elections, esp mondo-elections like a Presidential general election, are won in the preparation and execution of the plan. Almost never does a single, unplanned tactic or late-game strategy shift make a difference in the outcome.

Obama's had a clear plan and his VP selection followed a clear plan. The outcome may have been unspectacular but it was, in retrospect, consistent with what he wanted at the outset.

McCain's campaign has been all over the map, strategically, since the nearly averted shipwreck of last June. HE's switched campaign managers twice, overhauled  his campaign organization twice, changed themes multiple times, and now he seems to have made a spur of the minute decision to order off the menu for his VP selection.

There's simply no way that this does not come back to haunt him. Sooner (as I'm guessing) or later, there's going to be a revelation about her past positions, her career, something -- and because they haven't vetted her fully, they'll have no game plan to deal with it.

Even if there's no equivalent of a "bimbo eruption," its hard to see how they integrate this choice into a larger theme, a larger demographic-electoral strategy, or even a frame of attack on OB.

by desmoulins 2008-08-29 09:57PM | 0 recs

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