Markos at Netroots Nation

Markos is on a panel right now with Harold Ford, who is chair of the DLC. It's an interesting conversation but I wanted to highlight one thing Markos just said. He used the term "traditional media" instead of "mainstream media" and explained it this way:

I say "traditional media" because we are the mainstream. On issue after issue, we are where the American people reside.

He then spoke about how ridiculous the traditional media is, especially when he is asked about Obama's so-called move to the center. It's clear from what ends up getting written, that what he says goes in one ear and out the other because his response doesn't fit into their "move to the center" narrative. As Markos says regarding Barack Obama's FISA vote:

We weren't mad at Obama for moving to the center, we were mad at him for NOT moving to the center. There was no popular movement in favor of this bill. If you ask most Americans I think they'd tell us that they do not support the government spying on Americans.

That's a really important point.

Tags: Markos, Netroots Nation (all tags)



Re: Markos at Netroots Nation

Markos nailed it.  I love that quote.

by mikeinsf 2008-07-18 10:26AM | 0 recs
Call it what you want

Mainstream, traditional, but it is still were the majority of Americans get their news and it still shapes the most opinions.  

Blogs are growing at a rapid rate, but in the end represent a slice ... only one slice of America.  I am sure you know more than a thing or two about your demographic.

I also think that when blogs reach maturity and become "mainstream" they won't resemble what we see now.  As bloggers start to rely on their sites to generate nice incomes they won't be unlike other media outlets.  Some will go for a niche audience.  Others will try to aim at a wider slice of the public, and like the tradition, mainstream media today, become more bland, and middle of the roadish

by dpANDREWS 2008-07-18 11:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Call it what you want

Even cable news is not very important. Bill O'Reilly is #1 in cable news just to make my point.

The thing is that Markos is framing the issue the way he wants.  That is why he sounds so cool.  Obama knows that he is not going to be able to frame the FISA bill issue so he has to react to it in the context of how it will be framed by the MSM.

This claiming to be the center thing is getting old as well.  It sounds more than a bit myopic.  Markos is not the center. He is not even the center of the Democratic party. Get real.

by dMarx 2008-07-18 09:17PM | 0 recs
Yes, because most members of the Democratic

party haven't served in uniform.

Markos may not be the center, but he does average out to the center, at least when I listen to former Republicans...

The truth is that America is better than we think she is, is more progressive, is more tolerant. It's the propagandists on the right that have moved the country down out of the realm of civil discourse.

by RisingTide 2008-07-21 05:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Markos at Netroots Nation

Markos, ick, just ick.

by zerosumgame 2008-07-18 10:27AM | 0 recs
Kindly don't insult other posters

... it's in the Posting Guidelines, and is grounds for troll-rating. Which you deserve.

by RisingTide 2008-07-18 11:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Kindly don't insult other posters

A) we do not see you saying that to other posters who insult people all day long, now what's that word that describes that kind of behavior? It starts with an H...

B) Markos is not another poster here AFAIK and as a campaign surrogate it would be open season on him anyway.

C) take your smarmy hypocritical crap back to that hate site dkos.

by zerosumgame 2008-07-18 04:22PM | 0 recs
I don't read every single comment, silly

... and, I do know my social psychology. I am much more likely to troll rate someone insulting someone I like than someone I don't like, as the insult will be closer to my own views.

I include folks like sricki in the earlier category, and folks like you, who troll-rated me for something that wasn't in the User Policies (however justified) in the latter.

You've been on about as long as I have. Kos posts on here (is there a search button here?)

No, sorry, not leaving. You can, if you're sick of me ;0)

by RisingTide 2008-07-21 05:58AM | 0 recs
Markos is a hero... the left. People on the right would typically be revolted. Hmmmm... What makes you have such a problem with a hero of the left? Regardless, call outs are against the site policy and worthy of TR.

by iohs2008 2008-07-18 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Markos is a hero...

he may be to the weak-minded but in reality he is just a "reformed" Reaganite who used his site to get a job and is trying to weasel an appointment out of whoever is the dem nominee. He went for JRE, then when he bowed out he switched to BHO. Not an honest bone in his body. Anyone who supported the traitor Ronny is no hero to me.

by zerosumgame 2008-07-18 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Markos is a hero...

i'm not sure what your argument is. It's really basically a logical fallacy.

Because he grew up at a time that Reagan had a strong influence on this country (he was a pimpled faced kid at the time) it's understandable that he was influenced by him. I'm pretty sure his first vote for president was actually cast for Bush Sr., then he changed party alliances while in the army.

I for one voted my first presidential election for a Republican. Something I came to regret AND be embarrassed about. That doesn't make me less of a  progressive today. On the contrary, it made me revolt against everything I had at one time believed to be true.

In any regard, there's nothing wrong with supporting JRE and then changing your mind and supporting BHO. Although I think you are wrong here. Markos was partial to Dodd if I remember correctly. Not that it matters...

anyhow, you go on feeling some contempt at ex-republican voters who have changed allegiances and made great strides for the Democratic party.

by alex100 2008-07-18 06:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Markos is a hero...

funny how in her youth HRC was a "Goldwater Girl" and that was used as a bludgeon against her, but Marko's supporting a direct and proven traitor is 'out of bounds' to bring up. Gosh, your illogic burns me with it's silliness

by trytobereal 2008-07-19 08:07AM | 0 recs
That wasn't anything I had a problem with

... her acting like a petulant child in college reflected far worse on her. (NOT pointing fingers. Obama seemed to be lost in college too)

by RisingTide 2008-07-21 06:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Markos is a hero...

the problem with this argument is Markos does not support Reagan and has not done so in many, many years.

leave the "illogic" slur to those with logical fallacies (markos is a dumb dumb because he supported a GOP candidate in 1984).

by alex100 2008-07-21 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Markos is a hero...Must be nice on planet


by notedgeways 2008-07-18 07:55PM | 0 recs
Wow. What a purity test

And what matters now is who he supports, not who he supported 20-28 years ago.

by iohs2008 2008-07-18 10:14PM | 0 recs
My favorite diarist on kos is a Republican

... who writes about why people should register Republican (okay, so he does that on his own blog).

His posts on kos are invariably interesting and well-thought-out.

He's voting Obama this year.

by RisingTide 2008-07-21 05:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Markos at Netroots Nation

He is delusional if he thinks he and his crowd over there at the other site represents the mainstream in American politics.

by lori 2008-07-18 10:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Markos at Netroots Nation

So which part of saying FISA was a bad bill was out of the mainstream?

by Trowaman 2008-07-18 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Markos at Netroots Nation

Well, he does get more traffic than any other political blog.  DKos certainly gets more traffic than MyDD... so one could argue it is more 'mainstream' than this site.

I don't always agree with Markos or everything posted on DKos, but you make a mistake if you discount its influence.

by protothad 2008-07-18 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Markos at Netroots Nation

Yes, it is influential but it is not the center.  It is left of center even within the Democratic party. To claim his progressive views are the center is either delusional or just pure hyperbole.

by dMarx 2008-07-18 09:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Markos at Netroots Nation

Actually, I think DKos is more moderate than many claim.  In poll after poll, we find that public oppinion tends to hang more to the left on most issues than what the common wisdom considers 'the center'.  Certainly, DKos is a progressive blog and thus left of center, but it represents a wide range of views within the progressive spectrum and is hardly the 'radical left' blog that the wingnut pundits like to label it.

From where I'm standing, the real division was more about party process... bottom up grass roots activism vs top down DLC traditional party leadership.  The DLC sometimes leanes more to the center on issues, perhaps giving the impression that DKos is 'more to the left', but as a grass roots driven blog, I feel DKos is more in tune with popular sentiment than the DLC leadership.  If that was not the case, the DLC candidate might have won.


by protothad 2008-07-19 04:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Markos at Netroots Nation

He means the progressive ideals are the mainstream, not "Dailykos is the mainstream."

by PSUdan 2008-07-18 10:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Markos at Netroots Nation

and he is right.

people like ford are liberal now that it's popular but never so much so that he can't follow the polls if they go the other way.

by falseintellect 2008-07-18 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Markos at Netroots Nation

I think it's important to distinguish between stuff that is legitimately not mainstream (like hey, I support gay marriage, but I don't try to kid myself into thinking that's the mainstream position just yet) and the reflexive urge to assume that whatever the GOP wants on national security is automatically mainstream.

Warrantless wiretapping is a good case study because it really is all about how you frame it.  If the question is "we should be able to eavesdrop on al-Qaeda to prevent terrorist attacks," well gosh, that sounds awfully mainstream right?  If instead the question is "the government shouldn't be able to tap the phones of American citizens without a warrant" well that sounds awfully mainstream too.

What usually happens is that the GOP comes up with a "mainstream" argument that completely misrepresents the facts of the situation and, out of fear, the Democrats just let it go and vote along with the GOP.

by Steve M 2008-07-18 10:58AM | 0 recs
Well put

re: framing.

A guy at work believes "Dems want to prosecute American business for doing the patriotic thing".

We call it retro immunity.

I'm not sure Markos completely has the pulse of Mom and Pop America on this one.

by Neef 2008-07-18 11:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Well put

The point is that no one on the Democratic side has even made the effort to tell the other side of the story on this one.

If you accept the story that shortly after 9/11, the US Government went to the telecom companies and said "we need your help to stop another attack, our national security depends on it" and the telecom companies went along, then yeah, I can see where Mom and Pop might agree that the telecoms shouldn't be put out of business for that.

But as I think we all know, that's not the only side to the story.  In fact, in reality none of us has any idea exactly what conduct has now been immunized.  But when we don't fight the Republicans, guess what, only their side of the story gets told.

by Steve M 2008-07-18 12:11PM | 0 recs
I'm not disagreeing with you there

My comment was mostly regarding Markos view of where the center was is affected by framing. The center is defined by the framing (for good or ill), and this issue hasn't been framed to the benefit of the Democrats.

by Neef 2008-07-18 01:04PM | 0 recs
we're the propaganda outfit

if it hasn't been defined well, well, get writing! (letters to the editor, editorials...)

by RisingTide 2008-07-21 05:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Well put

This is our chance to nationalize the telephone industry, fire the old white guys that run it and replace thems with a diversity of ethnicities and sexual orientations reflective of people who use the phone and pay their phone bills.

by dMarx 2008-07-18 09:24PM | 0 recs
What is so alternative about Daily Kos?

The reason Markos is a famous blogger and you are not is because he has been correctly in tune with a major portion of America.

by iohs2008 2008-07-18 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: What is so alternative about Daily Kos?

Not a major portion but a sizable minority. And not the center either.

by dMarx 2008-07-18 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Markos at Netroots Nation

Yeah, but MSM is so universally understood, now we will have to teach everyone to use TM instead...sigh..

But, I think he is right.  The one time left wing blogs have become mainstream as evidenced by how heavily TM uses them to cherry pick news items.  There is almost nothing on the evening news of any network that doesn't appear in an online blog, hours and sometimes days, before it makes the air.  

If the political blogs were not mainstream their stories would not be picked up and deemed acceptable by TM so often.

by Susan from 29 2008-07-18 10:38AM | 0 recs
Ask Markos this

Does he still get livid at the mention of Bill Clinton's name?

I say this because Bill Clinton just announced an agreement with malaria drug suppliers to stabilize drug prices and make the drug more widely available in Africa. 9093462589.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

A million people a year die of malaria.  About 90% of all malaria deaths in the world today occur in Africa south of the Sahara.

I think it's time he gives some credit to the man.

by strongerthandirt 2008-07-18 11:02AM | 0 recs
Careful, he might just answer...


He does post on here, so please don't insult him or any other posters.

by RisingTide 2008-07-18 11:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Careful, he might just answer...

your selective "enforcement" of site rules you obviously do not comprehend are the height of hypocrisy

by zerosumgame 2008-07-18 04:23PM | 0 recs
I'm sort of quiping

not actually enforcing anything. ;-)

by RisingTide 2008-07-21 05:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Ask Markos this

Markos has strong opinions about a lot of things. That is something that characterizes people who run liberal blogs (and others). Just look at Jerome. He holds some very strong opinions. That is part of the nature of blogs.

If you don't like an opinion, you can move past it, or you can rail against it forever. But it doesn't disqualify someone from asserting his opinion, especially when that person runs what is currently the most successful liberal blog in America.

Besides, I think that Markos was largely focused on Bill Clinton's conduct during the primary, which was often puzzling, sometimes shameful, and at times harmful to Hillary's campaign.

by anoregonreader 2008-07-18 12:36PM | 0 recs
His Backers are US.

Hillary was comparatively more compromised. It made an easy choice.

Yes, Obama is an asshole who thinks he knows what's best and won't listen to others. So's Hillary. And McCain, and virtually everyone running since Carter.

There is no rashness in supporting Obama, in my not so humble opinion.

by RisingTide 2008-07-21 05:51AM | 0 recs
Mainstream media will also catch up

If blogs make money the big boys will want a piece.   First Read is a good example, and it has something bloggers don't have, reporters who are actually out that can turn out tidbits realtime throughout the day.

So as more people decide to "blog" where will they turn to do it?  Most local newspaper sites have dozens of blogs now.  That is just another example.

by dpANDREWS 2008-07-18 11:15AM | 0 recs
Traditional = Outdated, Sly, Packaged.

Mainstream = Now, Fierce, OPEN.

The way Mr. Kos describes it is so clear and right. I haven't accepted only the traditional news package for years, since even before the internet, because it was, for the most part, unbelievable, incomplete, incapable of pursuit. The opportunities were few of finding arsenals of journalism elsewhere, but now there is an entire marketplace. There is no "other site" to be loyal to or disrespectful of; the events and facts bloom all over. Certain sites draw more readers at certain times, but they all are in flux.
The tradition behind classic journalism now appears more often in Mr. Kos' mainstream; and the image of streams, streaming, circulation, flow, branches, fingers, electronics, electrons et al, makes the reality and naturalness of "our" kind of journalism so much like thinking itself, that we must be in the process of evolving our next lives...or, as Eisenhower often said, "at least, it seems that way in my mind."

by greenbird 2008-07-18 02:48PM | 0 recs
Traditional vs. mainstream

It's an important distinction, one worth making, and I'm glad Markos picked up on it.

Dan Gillmor and I (and others in the new media world) have been drawing that distinction for the past five years or so.

by JD Lasica 2008-07-18 07:00PM | 0 recs
I call it "Corporate Media"

Because that's who own it and that's why it has its Republican views.

by Bush Bites 2008-07-18 07:48PM | 0 recs


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