What Does Hillary Want?

Even Clinton herself mentioned the question last night.

Clinton's capital is her support and her supporters' willingness to stand behind her and her decisions. Party leadership and the Obama campaign want Clinton to concede and endorse Obama wholeheartedly so her supporters (and donors) embrace our nominee and unify.

But what does Clinton want in return?

Markos says money, but I don't agree. There is no significant difference in power and influence for the Clintons between today's campaign debt and a reimbursement in the future. Many say Clinton wants the VP slot, but that won't happen. And still others speculate about various types of media soft-landings or acknowledgment.

Maybe she's looking for issue-based commitments, like reports say Edwards secured before bowing out.

But in any case, it's not transparent. And the longer that lasts, the more cynical the whole thing feels.

I hope Clinton hears from supporters like Hilary Rosen:

Senator Clinton's speech last night was a justifiably proud recitation of her accomplishments over the course of this campaign, but it did not end right. She didn't do what she should have done. As hard and as painful as it might have been, she should have conceded, congratulated, endorsed and committed to Barack Obama. Therefore the next 48 hours are now as important to the future reputation of Hillary Clinton as the last year and a half have been.
After last night's final primary, she was only about pledged 100 delegates behind him. Ironic that after not wanting to make the decision for so long, it was in fact, the superdelegates who made the decision. But I guess they did so for another reason. It just isn't her time. It is his time. It's a new day that offers a freshness to our party that many have longed for. We felt the rush of new voices and a new energy in the Congressional sweep of 2006 and the sweep continues. It has been an organic shift. And a healthy one.
So, I am also so very disappointed at how she has handled this last week. I know she is exhausted and she had pledged to finish the primaries and let every state vote before any final action. But by the time she got on that podium last night, she knew it was over and that she had lost. I am sure I was not alone in privately urging the campaign over the last two weeks to use the moment to take her due, pass the torch and cement her grace. She had an opportunity to soar and unite. She had a chance to surprise her party and the nation after the day-long denials about expecting any concession and send Obama off on the campaign trail of the general election with the best possible platform. I wrote before how she had a chance for her "Al Gore moment." And if she had done so, the whole country ALL would be talking today about how great she is and give her her due.

Instead she left her supporters empty, Obama's angry, and party leaders trashing her. She said she was stepping back to think about her options. She is waiting to figure out how she would "use" her 18 million voters.

But not my vote. I will enthusiastically support Barack Obama's campaign. Because I am not a bargaining chip. I am a Democrat.

We'll likely never know the content of all the private conversations happening this week between campaigns. But I hope that the public version comes soon, and unites the Democratic party. Todd says she has his back, but her faint praise of Obama feels more like the bare minimum just to maintain decorum.

Hillary Clinton is better than this, and her supporters deserve her leadership.

Update [2008-6-4 18:45:0 by Josh Orton]: Problem solved. Coming in for a landing Friday...

Tags: Election 08, Hillary Clinton (all tags)



Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Clinton's yesterday's news.  Obama's on a roll!

by Drummond 2008-06-04 01:23PM | 0 recs
Until the vote in Denver, she's a candidate

If that makes her yesterday's news there is something wrong with the news and there is something wrong with a Party that so corrupts its rules for the benefit of a single candidate.  They all know that suprers can't count for the magic number and they are pretending that it is not true for what?  Obama? Money? Unity?

We are supposed to attract voters by the desirable values we espouse and how well we live up to them.  This effort to push Hillary out, going on for months, and twist and break the rules to make it happen is dispicable.  It is the perfect argument against unity and voter loyalty.  It is political suicide and, oh yea, unethical!

by itsadryheat 2008-06-04 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Until the vote in Denver, she's a candidate

"They all know that supers can't count for the magic number"

Since when? Clinton campaign had been including supers in their count since the beginning.

And oh, the conundrum. Some Clinton supporters suggest we ignore Clinton, others taking it as an insult if we ignore her. Some saying "Your candidate's the nominee, why are you so upset", others offended if we treat Obama as the nominee.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-06-04 01:55PM | 0 recs
Because they get no consistent message

from their former candidate.

Message has been an embarrassment for Clinton from Day One.  She has burned through at least half a dozen of them.

Yesterday's conflicting confirms, denials, retractions and more from her key employees reminded me of where they were on February 6th.

I really do feel sorry for her supporters who were looking for and expected leadership.

by Eman 2008-06-04 02:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Until the vote in Denver, she's a candidate

She's only a candidate in the fashion that Ron Paul and Gravel are candidates; that is to say, she is not a serious candidate to win.

by Lawyerish 2008-06-04 02:10PM | 0 recs
Bring Back Jonathan!

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-06-04 01:25PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

I guess you didn't get the various memo's or diaries about Unity. This diary does nothing to further it. Why does it matter to some of you folks so much to have her concede on your terms and not on her's or her supporters. There are 18 million of us after all. She's responsible to us and nobody else. Too bad they chose you over some of the other bloggers on here to front page. I don't think your going to a help or an asset in this little unity drive we have going on.

by Iceblinkjm 2008-06-04 01:26PM | 0 recs
We can't be disappointed?

I've been disappointed by Senator Obama several times during this campaign, and said so.  This is no hit diary.  It's simple reality--by leaving us all uncertain, she's not helping.  But she will.  She's good like that.

by McNasty 2008-06-04 01:29PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

I guess you missed Ed Rendell's comments today.  And Rendell is a Clinton(and long time fellow DLC'er) supporter.

by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle 2008-06-04 01:37PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Why does it matter to some of you folks so much to have her concede on your terms and not on her's or her supporters

She should concede in a way that's maximally helpful to the Party.  Keeping herself in the spotlight, repeating her divisive popular vote meme, and not being nearly as complementary of Obama as he was of her are all doing nothing for unity.

The unity ball is largely in her court.  Obama's being as gracious as humanly possible, and she's can't even support him when he's finally won the nomation?

Imagine how powerful it would have been for her to join him on stage last night in endorsement.

by ChrisKaty 2008-06-04 01:41PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

No group deserves more kudos than those Clinton supporters on this site who have displayed class, not only in your unity diaries, but also in your comments warding off discord.  I believe I understand what you mean by "She's responsible to us and nobody else," but my intitial reaction to that statement was: "Huh?"

She is a Democrat and, indeed, inspsired 18 million people.  Those loyal Democrats, however, are not the sum total of the party faithful.  She has a responsibility to all of us to assure that there are minimal roadblocks to the WH.

That being said, the conclusion of this campaign was a crushing blow that cannot be facily dealt with.  She absolutely deserves consideration, as do her supporters.  I look forward not to a concession speech from her; rather, the one thing only she is capable of -- the speech which will finally imasculate the age of tyranny we have endured.

Thank you for your wonderful diary.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-04 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

She's responsible to us and nobody else.

That's the problem isn't it. If George Bush were "responsible" to his supporters and no one else... he would have a 100% approval rating.

She's responsible to do what's best for all american's first, all democrats second, her supporters third and herself last. That's what a leader does... puts themselves and their interest last and tries to do what they think is best for all of us.

Hillary Clinton wasn't thinking about anyone but Hillary Clinton in her speech last night... and that's not what's in the best interest of anyone... even her supporters.

Is four-eight more years of no end in sight in Iraq responsible to you? Is continuing the same failed health care policies responsible to you? is the reversal of Casey and Roe v. Wade  responsible to you? Is more tax cuts for the rich and lost value of the dollar for the poor responsible for you?

What's in the best interest of all American's is electing a Democrat in the fall... that should be her first priority. It's time she told her supporters so.

by Tatan 2008-06-04 02:08PM | 0 recs
'She's responsible to us and nobody else.'

The statement above is at the root of the problem, and the result of disreputable spin.

No, as a presumed leader of the Democratic Party, Hillary is responsible to the Democratic Party.

The party, through its rules, has selected a presumptive nominee.

Even George W. Shrub figured that one out and got his statement right today.

The Rockies beat the Dodgers 2-1 last night in Los Angeles.  Since it was a close game, the final score will not count until the Dodgers and all the fans who attended the game have time to heal their grief.  We all know the Dodgers, of course, are responsible to fans in LA and nobody else.

by Eman 2008-06-04 02:30PM | 0 recs
Issues and $

I think she wants both issue committments and $.  Clearly her #1 issue in many ways was health care and I think she may want Obama to committ to proposing a universal health care plan.

As for $, she needs it to avoid more nasty headlines like today's in the Willamette Week (a widely-read Portland, OR weekly), which said, "As Sen. Hillary Clinton's bid for the Democratic presidential nomination flames out, her campaign leaves behind more than $40,000 in unpaid rental costs and overtime fees at Oregon public schools where she and ex-President Bill Clinton spoke." (full story at: http://wweek.com/editorial/3430/11055/).

by skywaker9 2008-06-04 01:26PM | 0 recs
Relevant and direct.

This is an outstanding diary.

I think Senator Clinton will surprise us all in the next few days by doing exactly what was described here, if a bit late.  She gets more slack.  She's on our side, really.

by McNasty 2008-06-04 01:27PM | 0 recs
only two day left in the week

and anyone who watched the "West Wing" knows Friday is the slowest (ie worst) news day of the week.

by Al Rodgers 2008-06-04 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

I do not know what she wants, but I am in agreement with you that her praise has been too faint.  I hope she quickly becomes more enthusiastic in her support of Obama.  

by bekhardt 2008-06-04 01:29PM | 0 recs

Kate Snow reported last nite on Nighline that Clinton has scheduled fundraisers this week with....wait for it... lobbyist.

Perhaps for reasons relating to campaign finance laws, she can't concede (ie suspend her campaign) before those fundraisers occur.

by Al Rodgers 2008-06-04 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Money!

I'm pretty sure you can keep fundraising provided you have a "suspended" campaign.  

by HSTruman 2008-06-04 01:53PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?
Great job, drive us Hillary supporters even further away.  You people can't even give her and her supporters a few fuckin days after a primary campaign that has lasted for six months.  This is becoming sickening.
It's not as if she's talking negatively about Obama or as if she's still fighting for Florida and Michigan's delegates.  But what's a day without an anti-Hillary diary on the front page.  And the same people say they want unity?  What a joke.
by musicpvm 2008-06-04 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Todd Beeton said the same thing in the previous diary:

I know many are perplexed and even disappointed that Hillary Clinton didn't make more of a declarative statement about her campaign status last night and get more fully behind Barack Obama

It's not unfair criticism.  Many of her top supporters agree.  Don't take it so personally!  We all walk the same earth, breathe the same air, and want to crush McSame.

by McNasty 2008-06-04 01:32PM | 0 recs
Is this Lanny Davis?

by Al Rodgers 2008-06-04 01:35PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Not everything is about Hillary. As Obama supporters we have every right to voice our opinion. I don't see hate or anything anti-Hillary written here.

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-04 01:36PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

It's not as if she's talking negatively about Obama

Sure she is, just last night.  

She claimed he was the weaker candidate.  She worked to delegitimize his victory by repeating her specious "popular vote" meme.  She repeated that she won "the swing states".  She implied that Obama didn't want to count "every single vote".

It was not a positive, unifying speech.

by ChrisKaty 2008-06-04 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?
Barack Obama is the nominee. Period.
The defacto leader of the Democratic Party. Period.
Anytime she starts talking about how she is the better candidate or how she got more votes or won swing states or can get more Electoral votes or even  how when the crowd started shouting 'Denver' and she didn't stop them, is an insult to our nominee.
Even Clinton surrogates on Capitol Hill thought it was in bad taste. Her 18M votes are misleading. Over half are hard-core Dems who will vote for the nominee regardless who it is. The bulk of the Hillary diehards will slowly come around one the emotion subsides. Another much smaller group are people following Operation Chaos. The last group that Hillary is counting on ..That 30% that will follow her unconditionally, and say they won't vote for Obama...
Well, it's a long time between now and November, and Barack is a patient man.
by xodus1914 2008-06-04 04:40PM | 0 recs

do you know something we don't know about Obama's VP prospects?  Or are you just speculating wildly based on what you hear from pundits on television and reporters who claim to receive information from high-end anonymous sources?

Lynn Sweet from Chicago placed Clinton at the top of Obama's list.

by Blazers Edge 2008-06-04 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Orton

And Lynn Sweet is all knowing just because she is from a Chicago paper?  She's just throwing crap against the wall like all the other media outlets.

by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle 2008-06-04 01:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Orton

Just as we are "throwing crap against the wall."  Orton just said that Obama/Clinton isn't going to happen.  His speculation is probably even worse than Sweet's speculation because his speculation is probably not based on anything but personal speculation, as he claims to no longer be involved in the Obama campaign.

by Blazers Edge 2008-06-04 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

You can't force her to do anything. There is no such thing as forced unification. If we want to support Obama in the GE, then we will, if we dont want to, will vote for someone else or stay home. Stop with  this unity crap, before it backfires in your face.  

by bsavage 2008-06-04 01:31PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Threats? Unity goes both ways friend.

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-04 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

It's more of a prediction of the future rather than a threat.

by bsavage 2008-06-04 01:40PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

thank you for your insight Miss Cleo.

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-04 01:41PM | 0 recs
So what is your problem then

You dont want unity, you aren't making a complaint against this diary similar to a small handful of people by labeling it as bashing on Hillary.  

Do you want us to just quake and tremble at your vote-saber rattling?  Is that your point that your going to vote for McCain?

I say go piss in the wind troll

by KLRinLA 2008-06-04 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?
All the hand wringing is just so ridiculous. This thing ended last night (with a win for Clinton to boot!) yet everyone wanted her to put on a pep rally for Obama. That is unrealistic.
Considering how close this thing was its perfectly natural that Clinton would use her leverage to get certain guarantees out of Obama and the Party.
She isn't John Edwards, she is the one with the other half of the Democratic Party's votes so let her and Obama hash things out and spare yourselves all the unnecessary agita.
by big poppa smurf 2008-06-04 01:34PM | 0 recs
like what?

like what kind of guarantees ?

by Al Rodgers 2008-06-04 01:37PM | 0 recs
Re: like what?
I don't know but she has cache and I am sure she wants something before she concedes, the question is how long will it take for her and Obama to hammer out just what that will be. It could be anything from VP consideration to adopting her healthcare plan.
I'm sure Richardson and Edwards made overtures before giving their endorsement too. We all need to remember that this is still politics and no one gets something for nothing in this business.
by big poppa smurf 2008-06-04 01:52PM | 0 recs
Focus on "I don't know."

It's the uncertainty that is slowly doing the damage.  I agree with what you said, but we also deserve to know what she wants specifically, at least soon. "We" being defined as "Democrats who want to beat McSame."

by McNasty 2008-06-04 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

 its perfectly natural that Clinton would use her leverage to get certain guarantees out of Obama and the Party.

Perfectly natural for her to get guarantees?

WOW. I thought you were a Clinton supporter.

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-04 01:39PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?
Never make assumptions.
I was for Joe Biden when this circus first started.
I was just an interested spectator after he dropped out, I thought Clinton would make the better presidential candidate of the two left remaining and I have found some of the condemnation thrown her way to be a bit out of hand which made me defend her when I saw fit.
There seems to be a desire on the part of some Obama supporters to "purge" all things Clinton from the Party and that bothers me greatly.
by big poppa smurf 2008-06-04 01:49PM | 0 recs
You're right.

But the point now is: the longer she keeps Democrats in this deliberate uncertainty, the more of a handicap it is to our nominee, and the less influence Senator Clinton will have in a changing Democratic Party.

by McNasty 2008-06-04 01:41PM | 0 recs
Re: You're right.

Well I don't have a crystal ball but I doubt this goes on longer than a week. Clinton knows that she can't drag this on indefinitely unless she is willing to go with the nuclear option of taking it to the convention (which I do not think she plans to do). That is why I am not understanding the hysteria since I believe by this time next week it will all be over.

by big poppa smurf 2008-06-04 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: You're right.

Yes, then again we used to be saying "By Tuesday this will all be over". Tuesday came and passed, and she seems to still be in the race. Even without any arms or legs.

Next week is it? And if not then, when? "By end of June this will all be over?" By end of July? In time for thanksgiving?

by Aris Katsaris 2008-06-04 01:57PM | 0 recs
Not longer than a week.

Sigh...I'd rather not have this be the topic for the weekend talking heads.  But that would probably require some definitive info from Senator Clinton by Friday morning at the latest.

Substitute "overwhelming enthusiasm and an almost uncontrollable desire to see all Democrats turn their sights on McCain" for "hysteria," and I think you'll see where some of us are coming from.

by McNasty 2008-06-04 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?
I don't think anyone was accepting a pep rally but I think most people were expecting a wee bit more graciousness and thoughtfulness scattered throughout that dreadful speech.
She has a responsibility to her followers to  begin the healing process..and she squandered that opportunity.
So how exactly does she exit with dignity and class after her performance last night?
by april34fff 2008-06-04 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?
Well it isn't up to you or me to decide when Clinton starts the healing process with her supporters.
And I didn't see a lack of graciousness on her part, she just didn't concede which is what everyone else wanted her to do and that seems to be the rub.
by big poppa smurf 2008-06-04 02:15PM | 0 recs
i'm gonna disagree here...

first of all, i think we've seen quite a bit of evidence here that hillary cannot lead her supporters anywhere.  she's only a symbolic leader, in that regard.  many of her supporters will be voting for mccain or sitting out the election no matter what she says or does.

second, and more important, i don't care when she says it as long as she says it credibly, authentically.  if it sounds like she's being forced into endorsing barack or getting out of the race, it has no value, no appeal, absolutely no relevance to the people who back her.  i'll wait for hillary to say it when she means it...

by bored now 2008-06-04 01:35PM | 0 recs
Re: i'm gonna disagree here...

I agree very much with your statement that she needs to endorse Obama when she can do so credibly and authetically.  It was hard to imagine her standing up and doing so last night, in front of all her passionate supporters, without triggering a riot.  

I expect she will endorse soon, in a very different venue, and that her endorsement will be treated with respect by most Clinton supporters.  

But let's be careful not to conflate the 2-3% of Clinton dead-enders (who happen to be represented at much higher percentages here) with the majority of registered Democrats who supported her campaign.

Anyone who supported Clinton, who seriously examines Obama and McCain on the issues can not seriously endorse staying home or voting for McCain, no matter what their misgivings may be about Obama.

by tastycakes 2008-06-04 02:20PM | 0 recs
Have you never been to a 2nd place election night?

In more than 40 years in this business, I have never before seen a candidate NOT face his or her supporters and acknowledge they worked hard, did their best, but did not win.  Never.

I've lived through the joy of winning, but more often the tears of defeat.  Shouting, screaming, denial, anger.  Yes it is all there, but I've never before seen it other than behind closed doors.

Once the candidate walks out the door to face the supporters on election night, the candidate and the staff all have the smiles painted on while they all cry inside.

by Eman 2008-06-04 02:40PM | 0 recs

that's got to be the first time i've been accused of being too lenient to hillary's supporters...

by bored now 2008-06-04 03:53PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Go back to your cave, dude.

I could give two craps about what you think or what Hilary Rosen thinks or anyone else.  I stand with Hillary no matter what.  And when she asks me to stand with Obama I will have to think about it.  He needs to earn my support and he has an awful lot of work to do if I am any judge.

by BRockNYC 2008-06-04 01:36PM | 0 recs
"I could give two craps"

That's really not the way to have a productive conversation.

by McNasty 2008-06-04 01:43PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

So I guess when you say "I stand with Hillary no matter what," what you really mean is:

"I stand with Hillary no matter what, unless she asks me to vote for Barack Obama, then I'm not really sure, maybe I don't stand with Hillary after all?"


by erzeszut 2008-06-04 01:53PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Tell you what, Dude:

Keep your "two craps" handy.  What will you do for brains if you give them up, eh?

by fogiv 2008-06-04 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Hillary Rosen is sucking up to the new power base in my opinion.  All day yesterday the Clinton people said they were not going to concede today.  Hillary Rosen and Bill Richardson need to start a little club for back-stabbers.

by mtnspirit 2008-06-04 01:37PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Hillary Rosen and Bill Richardson need to start a little club for back-stabbers.

What the hell is this?

This isn't NoQuarter, Taylor Marsh or Hillis44 troll.

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-04 01:43PM | 0 recs
How to kill a troll.

One of these suggestions has got to work:

There are a large number of ways to kill a troll permanently, many of which fall into the general category of putting the corpse inside something:

   * Eat the corpse (but the troll may revive while you are eating it).
    * Let a pet eat the corpse (has the advantage that it will disappear as soon as the pet starts to eat).
    * Tin the corpse.
    * Lock the corpse in a container.
    * Polymorph the troll and kill the creature.
    * Polymorph the corpse.
    * Sacrifice the corpse.
    * Throw the corpse into lava or water (if it isn't a water troll) and it will drown as soon as it revives.
    * Just keep killing the troll, and eventually it will fail to revive (approximately a 25% chance each time you kill it).
    * Kill the troll with a level-draining weapon; it will still revive, but will be easy to kill again when it does.
    * Completely fill the level with monsters so that the troll has nowhere to revive.
    * Find or dig a pit, place the corpse in, and push in a boulder to bury it.
    * Stone the live troll with a cockatrice corpse.
    * Lure the troll to the Rogue level, where monsters don't leave corpses, and kill it there.
    * Disintegrate the troll by standing between it and a black dragon
    * Put the corpse in a cursed bag of holding and repeatedly #loot the bag until it disappears.

by McNasty 2008-06-04 01:52PM | 0 recs
Your authoritarian declaration that

she categorically will not get the VP slot (what do you know?) is totally ridiculous and indicative of the bossy attitude of many Obama supporters.  

by Molee 2008-06-04 01:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Your authoritarian declaration that

There are lots of reasons to believe it is unlikely to materialize.  

It's not like the OP was declaring anything.

Prediction:  Clinton is going to play an important role in President Obama's government.

by tastycakes 2008-06-04 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Your authoritarian declaration that

No it isn't. It just means the poster doesn't have his head up his ass. Hillary as VP is ridiculous.

by pneuma 2008-06-04 02:38PM | 0 recs
With due respect

I have to say, with all due respect, the content from the new front pager is a heck of a lot like the incessant Obama-spin that I tried to escape from the Daily Kos front page.

Not at all the balanced perspective we get from Jonathan, Todd, and Jerome.

And by balanced perspective I mean this -- ask yourself, 6 weeks or 3 months from now is it going to make any difference that Hillary gave her official concession/endorsement speech a few days or a week or whatever after June 3rd than if she gave it on June 3rd?  No.  So don't get all worked up over trivia, particularly the kind that alienates many of her most ardent supporters.

by dcg2 2008-06-04 01:42PM | 0 recs
Todd said the same.

Just look at the previous diary.

Judases everywhere, if you look hard enough I guess.

by McNasty 2008-06-04 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Todd said the same.

True, although he's usually much more balanced so I don't mind when he throws one in once in a while because he's demonstrated he's not channelling Markos'-level spin.

Josh, though, not so much at this point in his tenure.

by dcg2 2008-06-04 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: With due respect

No it won't just like it didn't matter that she didn't  gave it last night. Just an excuse to point out her supposed narcism. Josh obviously suffers from CDS judging by his output on this site. He obviously does not realize that the party and this election have moved on from the bash Hillary and Bill Clinton's legacy. Obama know has to pivot and embrace it otherwise he won't be able to draw contrast against John McCain and the Bush years. I know he can do it as he did exactly that last night in his speech. As I said earlier take a page from your candidate and move on. Not everything Hillary does is a slight at Obama.

by Iceblinkjm 2008-06-04 01:52PM | 0 recs
Hey Josh

I think the Clinton mob is going to take a while to "warm up to you".  


Good diary man.  And nothing that hasn't been said elsewhere, really.  I posted the link to the Rosen article earlier today.  

Her supporters are releasing themselves, slowly.  Hillary will do the right thing and move on.  The numbers are overwhelming now.  It's just a matter of time.

by SpanishFly 2008-06-04 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey Josh

Do you come here for "nothing that hasn't been said elsewhere"?  

That was kind of the point I was trying to make.

Would rather see more original thought or fresh prespective or the front page here will  lose relevance (not to overreact to a couple of days of pure Obama spin from a new front pager).

by dcg2 2008-06-04 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Hey Josh

I think he provided fresh perspective.  It was his take on the news that I've seen others here and elsewhere talking about.  I just think Josh takes hits immediately from a lot of folks here because he doesn't have the same biases that have been on display here for several months.  To me, as a person who was banned once for having an opinion, that IS refreshing.

As to Hillary and her supporters, at this point, I see no reason to continue to fight with anyone.  I think she burned some bridges during this campaign and will work hard for Obama to help rebuild them.  In the long run, that's probably very valuable.  I hope her supporters follow her lead.  

by SpanishFly 2008-06-05 06:01AM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

I do not think it would have been in Senator Obama's best interest if Senator Clinton had conceded in New York - the audience could have reacted badly - in effect seeming to reject Obama.

It is better if Senator Clinton gives more time for her supporters to face reality and announces her concession to an audience of all supporters that can be guaranteed to be 'well behaved'.

by My Ob 2008-06-04 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

It always tickles me to listen to people who are asked publicly to comment on such things. These people never fail to tell anybody who might listen just what Hillary should do. Hillary doesn't need Ms. Rosen, TV pundits, Rush Limbaugh or any of that ilk to guide her. Regardless of Obama's math score , he's gonna need a lot of help and Hillary does represent the "other half" of the Dem Party. Enough of these Obama Temper Tantrums. They both deserve our respect ,support and belief that each will do what's best for the Dem Party. It's their decisions ,not Ms Rosen's, that count.

by fillphil 2008-06-04 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

And she has a fiduciary duty to her supporters to be candid and honest with them instead of offering them false hope.

She's playing politics with the fragile emotions of her peeps.

by april34fff 2008-06-04 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

"Fiduciary" and "peeps" in the same comment.

Um, yeah.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-06-04 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

All I keep reading is
"Hillary needs time"
"Hillary needs to come to terms with her emotions"
"Hillary needs time to heal"

Guess we're all better off that Hillary will never take that 3am call, huh?

It may have taken weeks for her to have just hung-up.

by Subroutine 2008-06-04 02:03PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Hmmm, she best decide what she wants fast because even Ed Rendell and Charlie Rangel are getting impatient.

Tick-tock, tick-tock, Hillz.

by MJJLWolf 2008-06-04 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

I'm not very familiar with Orton's opinions, but I was in extremely strong disagreement (to put it mildly) with his post on the wildly misinterpreted RFK comments.

So, unfortunately, I have to take this opinion with a heaping of salt as well.

The primary season went on for five months. The last voting has been done, and by any measure that acknowledges Michigan's existence, Clinton is either ahead or tied in the popular vote. Half the party wants her to be the nominee. Doesn't that deserve a few days or weeks of consideration?

John McCain and the Republicans are suddenly full of praise for Hillary Clinton. Vicious criticism from Democrats may not be the best way to court her voters.

by OrangeFur 2008-06-04 02:08PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

LOL!  Yeah....suddenly the republicans just love Hillary.

by Subroutine 2008-06-04 02:10PM | 0 recs
This is just strange

There is something going on here that I have never heard before at the end of a political campaign; it's kind of a weird reverse sexism.  Since when has consideration of "feelings" been the prime motivator of the winning candidate's not taking the reins and getting on with it?  Politics is rough and someone always loses, maybe unfairly, maybe they were a potentially better choice, but a loss is a loss and you need to move on, and rather quickly, to the next step of the campaign.

Most of the primary candidates I have supported in my 40 years of political involvement have lost.  Maybe you mourn the loss in private, but publically you just keep moving forward.  If the winning candidate is unacceptable to you, you move on to someone or some party that is.  

by mady 2008-06-04 02:09PM | 0 recs
Re: This is just strange

Well, you see...we have to wait for Hillary to stop emoting.

by Subroutine 2008-06-04 02:12PM | 0 recs
Re: This is just strange

You're damn right.  I could care less about Hillary's 'feelings.'  She needs to start thinking about something a little bigger then herself, if she wants to retain any respect at all.

by Lawyerish 2008-06-04 02:16PM | 0 recs
she's not a victim

I'm more concerned about how her supporters feel, because I want them to vote for Obama in the fall, period.

But the "take it easy on her, guys!" stuff doesn't really fly with me.  She stayed in this thing to the bitter end, months after the odds of victory had shrunk to near-nothingness.  

As a Democrat, I want to take McCain down and get our people elected.  This country has been suffering due to Bush rule and I can not wait to kick that fucker out of the White House and put a Democrat in his place.  

Wanting her to concede graciously and start working with Obama (instead of against him) is just a natural part of that burning desire to move past Bush.  It has nothing to do with Hillary's feelings, it has to do with wanting the party to come together today.

by tastycakes 2008-06-04 02:44PM | 0 recs
Thank you Hilary Rosen

Best I've heard it said.

by obsessed 2008-06-04 02:10PM | 0 recs
To quote the news...

"she has not admitted losing to Obama."

by Firewall 2008-06-04 02:13PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

She wants to make sure certain important issues are taken care of by his camp (ie Healthcare etc.) Given the current political climate in the DNC, with the way she has been treated, anyone who dared support her I am sure is getting the political cold shoulder right now & I believe she is trying to make sure they aren't alienated as a result of standing up for what they believe to be right. And she is trying to make sure, that Obama stands a chance in hell of winning. Since the camp wants to virtually ignore her, when her camp is more experienced (nay IS experienced at winning a G/E) she needs to force them to involve her so that she can ensure the right people can influence this thing.

I thank Hillary Clinton for standing up for all of us even in the face of ridicule and degradation. She is a true hero to all Americans, even the ones who don't understand how grateful they should be to her. Her spirit to fight for all of us, with absolutely nothing to gain on a personal level for herself, has only made me view her with a greater level of admiration.

by jrsygrl 2008-06-04 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

She has nothing to gain on a personal level?

How about, oh, the presidency???!?!?!?!!?11!!

You guys are too much.  She's not a saint or a martyr, just another politician like Obama and McCain.

You say

"when her camp is more experienced (nay IS experienced at winning a G/E)"  

I have to laugh at this.  Her camp ran the WORST primary campaign possible.  The best thing Obama could do is keep her and her 'people' as far away as possible from his team...

by Lawyerish 2008-06-04 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

I think you need to read this diary about how Clinton ran her campaign.  

by grlpatriot 2008-06-04 02:40PM | 0 recs
i didn't find it very informed...

but i'm hoping it helped the person who wrote it...

by bored now 2008-06-04 03:56PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Okay she has never participated in a campaign that has won a G/E before @@ And the presidency will completely add to her life - I mean dealing with another ten years of garbage on top of 30+ years unprecedented investigations & over the top smear campaigns that have been perpetuated against her by the GOP, since she was identified as a political rising star, is seriously going to enrich her on a personal level.  I mean especially when you think about how destitute she is financially and at loss she would be for prestige if she were to privately pursue her interests. @@ GMAFB...Get real.

by jrsygrl 2008-06-04 08:12PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Given that the RNC is already running commercials using her comments about Obama not passing the CIC test, I have trouble seeing how he can make her veep.  Not to mention that doing so would inspire endless stories in the media about how weak he is to give into "blackmail" (you know they'd spin it that way).  

I'd instead suggest the following:

1. Obama requests that a number of potential candidates and their spouses get vetted for veep.  Hillary notes that, after consideration, she doesn't wish to be considered for veep, and preemptively rejects any offer of it.

  1. Obama then offers to put Hillary in charge of UHC reform (which he basically offered to do in his speech anyway), and allows her to do it from either the Senate or the HHS cabinet post, whichever she'd prefer.  (Note: he can't legally promise her HHS under my understanding of the 1881 anti-patronage laws, but you can say so and so would make a good X, so he could do that as a way of making the offer).
  2. In addition, she would have sway over the VP selection.  She wouldn't get to choose, but she'd have influence and maybe the right to veto one VP (my guess is she'd veto Richardson, although his boomlet seems to have ended).  
  3. She'd endorse, and he'd note her unselfishness, how no one else could have done what she did, etc.  

by bosdcla14 2008-06-04 02:17PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

I was thinking more like a personalized "Barack for President" campaign button.

by Subroutine 2008-06-04 02:24PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

I'd suggest this. Do nothing. She has no options that don't destroy her career.

"I'll consider your legacy in my presidency based on the enthusiasm of your support."

by pneuma 2008-06-04 02:45PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Some might want to take Senator Dodds advice to wolf Blitzer just now and Give her a Break but I guess thats not going To Happen though.

by tpagy 2008-06-04 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

How do you know the VP spot is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. What you mean is YOU don't want it to happen.  

by ottovbvs 2008-06-04 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

I agree. The only reason I continue following this campaign is because I expect Obama to name Hillary as his running mate.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-06-04 02:35PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

No, Markos wants money. Hillary can take care of herself, thank you very much. As for what Hillary wants, I think she said it quite clearly last night:

You know, I understand that a lot of people are asking, what does Hillary want? What does she want? Well, I want what I have always fought for in this whole campaign. I want to end the war in Iraq. I want to turn this economy around. I want health care for every American. I want every child to live up to his or her God-given potential, and I want the nearly 18 million Americans who voted for me to be respected, to be heard and no longer to be invisible.

I'm glad she is still fighting for me and my interests. Strong arming Hillary and passive attacks like "it's not transparent" and "she is better than this" is insulting. Lest you forget that nearly 18 million people rejected Obama and he lost 6 of the last 10 contests (he beat HRC by 7 votes in Guam). He limped to the finish line with the help of the MSM, 55 MI pledgies that the RBC gave him, and some Supers. There are legitimacy issues that Obama hangs his presumptive hat on, which is why there is all this hand wringing. Clinton still has a case to make and is making it for whatever she feels is in the best interest of the party, her platform, her supporters, and herself. Yes, OMG, a woman who wants something. How f..king horrible. A collective gasp is heard from men around the planet as they clutch their b@lls.

Josh, just hold on a second, sweetie, we'll address your concerns at the press conference. Right now, we've got some shopping to do.

by grlpatriot 2008-06-04 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Don't you have some shirts to be ironing?


by pneuma 2008-06-04 02:47PM | 0 recs
is this snark?

serious question...

by bored now 2008-06-04 03:56PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

You people are going to go too far. This excessive orgy of praise required for Obama, especially of Hillary, is going to backfire. McCain is looking like a sane, quiet, steady alternative by the day. This liberal takeover  has a slightly menacing feel to it. Almost Taliban-like in its reverence for form and manners over governance. Burkas of shame and derision are being placed on  anyone (especially women) who does not offer sufficient praise for Obama This is madness. The country is being turned into one large giant Trinity Church with Obama supporters flinging insults with mad glee at anyone who is not dancing in the aisles. Talk about irrational exuberance. Can't wait for this bubble to burst. And its only day one.

by superetendar 2008-06-04 02:36PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Thanks for this one. I really did laugh out loud.

Burkas of shame. Wow. :D.

by pneuma 2008-06-04 02:50PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

Not helpful at all!  As a former supporter of Hillary and coming from a split household, the indignation is seen on both sides.  If you don't realize that, it just means you are caught up in it.

by Chelseain32 2008-06-04 10:30PM | 0 recs
I don't know

whether to laugh or to cry.  

I thought we Dems prided ourselves in being the reality-based party.  Your description definitely gets into an alternate reality.  No one is putting burkas of shame and derision on anyone.

by vbdietz 2008-06-05 07:21AM | 0 recs
Give the woman a break

Why don't you listen to Senator Dodd. He just said on CNN "give the woman a break". And give her supprters a break. I am really trying to feel good about Obama and the Democrats right now, but you all are making it very difficult.

Why don't you read Annatopia's diary, "Another Perspective on Hillary's Speech" and give me and 18 million voters and Hillary a fucking break. I'm trying so hard to get over the loss of my candidate and the vitriol against her in this site, Daily Kos (I can't even stand to go there anymore), and the MSM (will somebody please start a real boycott against them?).

I almost had a stroke this morning when Jeannie Moos (sp?) had a hilarious little bit where she showed a clip from a regular CNN (and MSNBC? I don't know, I absolutely refuse to watch them) Obama supporter, Joe Madison where he said and I quote "If she becomes the running mate, he'd better get a food taster". This is not funny, but my mother laughed, she is an Obama supporter as well. Do we want to fucking lose the GE? Well keep it up boys and girls, because unless we can really heal this rift, we can say hello to president John McCain.

Destroy corporate media, take back our country!

by Hollede 2008-06-04 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

BTW Joe Madison has a radio show on XM Radio, we might want to start there.

by Hollede 2008-06-04 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

How does Friday sound for her conceding or is that not soon enough!

by tpagy 2008-06-04 02:51PM | 0 recs
Right, We don't want another Kennedy/Carter Fiasco

Right I remember all the calls for Senator Kennedy to withdraw, (although he gave the best speech of his life at the Convention) and I remember how everyone blamed him for Jimmy Carter's defeat by Ronald Raygun.

by msobel 2008-06-04 03:11PM | 0 recs
Re:I liked her speech.

As one of her 18 million voters, I appreciated being reminded that I matter to my candidate because my vote sure as hell doesn't seem to matter to the media, the democratic party leadership, or (according to politico.com) Obama's campaign.  

Her speech did not detract from Obama in any way.  There are other people who are invested in this process besides the perennially outraged in the Obama camp.  Clinton acknowledged her supporters last night, and it was entirely proper that she do so.

by half nelson 2008-06-04 03:19PM | 0 recs
V.P. slot for Clinton won't happen, then the

presidency for Obama won't happen.

You can take that to the bank.

by mmorang 2008-06-04 04:16PM | 0 recs
Hillary Rosen speaks for herself

Obama will not get a vote from me.
Neither will McCain.

I will either write in or stay home.

All great empires come to an end.
No reason to think that this one should last any longer.

by stefystef 2008-06-04 06:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Rosen speaks for herself

What part of this post says anything about Democracy?

by Chelseain32 2008-06-04 10:25PM | 0 recs
She's going to endorse

him (you already knew she would) and she's suspending her campaign.  Time to take this diary off the front page--it's just helping to infuriate Clinton supporters (like me) who think that after a marathon 18 months of campaigning, the lady deserved a couple of days to take stock, get a night's sleep, formulate a good speech and talk with her supporters.  You guys won.  Lay off Hillary, ok?

by aurelius 2008-06-04 09:49PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?
What does any woman want?
We have been asking women that question since the dawn of civilization.
Does anyone really think a woman is going to honestly answer that question?
by Otaku Saru 2008-06-04 11:15PM | 0 recs
Re: What Does Hillary Want?

the content from the new front pager is a heck of a lot like the incessant Obama-spin that I tried to escape from the Daily Kos front page.

by anasky123 2008-06-24 10:32PM | 0 recs


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