Open Thread

by Josh Orton, Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 05:33:18 PM EDT

Goal Thermometer

We've got a few more hours to hit our goal on the Road to 60 - let's do it.

Just watched Wes Clark on MSNBC. He's great.

Who's comments are you denouncing tonight?

Update [2008-6-30 22:1:12 by Josh Orton]: Home stretch - 12 donations to go. Even a $10 or $20 donation will help us get there. Hit the Road to 60.

Update [2008-6-30 23:46:47 by Josh Orton]: Almost there! We need six more donors...even $5. Do it and hit our goal

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Tags: Open Thread, Road to 60 (all tags)

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56 Comments

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Lucky 13!

That is all we need to hit 60!

Just 13 people to donate whatever they can.

by kevin22262 2008-06-30 05:35PM | 0 recs
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Sure, I'll donate.

Once people like Rankles, Aliveandkickin, and Engels are banned; their socks and goon squads of downraters, too.

by Shem 2008-06-30 08:39PM | 0 recs
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Clark on Abrams

Glad the General was able to get out from under the Obama bus (it is getting crowded under there) in order to make it on MSNBC.

by Newport News Dem 2008-06-30 05:41PM | 0 recs
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Re: Clark on Abrams

This has to be the most tired metaphor ever. It has become increasingly meaningless, with lots of different actions and statements lumped together.

Please retire it!

by politicsmatters 2008-06-30 06:02PM | 0 recs
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Re: Clark on Abrams

Hahhaaaaaaaaaaa!

You clearly don't understand what a meme is pal. It's an unpalatable truth, for someone usually, that shows up one day and then....

Never leaves.

Particularly hard to get rid of when it's the truth.

What a scene. We just get rid of the stupid oaf and here comes another idiot compete with millions of followers who ain't never done nothin' and as it seems obvious now....

Don't know how to get anything done.

Wow, America the Stupid if it elects this bozo.
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by Pericles 2008-06-30 06:22PM | 0 recs
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Re: Clark on Abrams

I'm also tired of name-calling.

by politicsmatters 2008-06-30 06:34PM | 0 recs
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Re: Clark on Abrams

How about we have a Democratic candidate with the spine and fortitude to defend his supporters for speaking the truth, instead of....forgive me, throwing him under the f-ing bus. When the shoe fits, BO must wear it.

What a pusillanimous and pathetic thing for BO to do to a great American, General Clark.

by Newport News Dem 2008-07-01 09:59AM | 0 recs
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Re: Clark on Abrams

One other thing, if BO would stop doing that which you decry as a tired metaphor, we would stop using it by definition.

by Newport News Dem 2008-07-01 12:50PM | 0 recs
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Wes Clark for VP!

As for gotalife, Clark and Obama know exactly what they are doing.

Also, I'm adding "under the bus" to "thinking outside the box" as phrases that I never want to hear again.

by batgirl71 2008-06-30 05:51PM | 0 recs
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Re: Wes Clark for VP!

Don't forget "jump the shark"

by DPW 2008-06-30 05:56PM | 0 recs
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Re: Wes Clark for VP!

batgirl, I'll sign up for both of those.  

by wavery2001 2008-06-30 07:03PM | 0 recs
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toss under the bus

It's all in your head, and just another lame excuse to attack the Democratic nominee in conjunction with the GOP.

by Beren 2008-06-30 05:53PM | 0 recs
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Who's comments are you denouncing tonight?

Those who attack the Democratic nominee.

by Beren 2008-06-30 05:55PM | 0 recs
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Re: Who's comments are you denouncing tonight?

Be sure to avoid Kos at all costs, then, where he's up to his usual, yawn-inducing blowhardism over Obama's comments today.  And showing that he's not half as clever as he thinks he is.  Bowers, as usual, is about ten steps ahead.

by wavery2001 2008-06-30 07:02PM | 0 recs
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I haven't done kos for years.

Don't like the trusted abusers.
Don't like Moulitsas.
Don't like the hordes.
Don't like the color.
by Beren 2008-06-30 07:29PM | 0 recs
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Re: I haven't done kos for years.

Well, uh, let's see - - the color at least doesn't bother me.  :)  

by wavery2001 2008-07-01 11:26AM | 0 recs
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Re: Who's comments are you denouncing tonight?

Bowers, to be sure, but may the good angels of progressivism spare us some of the comments his diaries elicit.  Sheesh.  If a candidate speaks in a forest and there is no leftist progressive to hear him is it still an ideological betrayal of everything we believe in?

by Shaun Appleby 2008-07-01 02:16AM | 0 recs
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Re: Open Thread

It's time for some people to read Chris Bowers:

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?dia ryId=6695#81910

The man is brilliant...  I wish he was still here!

by LordMike 2008-06-30 06:20PM | 0 recs
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Re: Open Thread

Bowers is great although his analysis  sometimes doesn't allow flexibility in a Pablano kind of way (the rigidity to his madness is what makes Nate's numbers so fluid). So, while I don't care for Chris's number crunching, he's splendid otherwise.

Throw in Rosenberg (my favorite writer), Sirotka and Stoller and OL has the most liberal deck of writers that I know of. Great site.

by alex100 2008-06-30 08:15PM | 0 recs
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Re: Open Thread

I have been watching a lot of Mccain's Townhall forums and the discussions and questions are so intertwined with the man's character and patriotism.

Every questioner basically started their statements with a preface that the were casting their vote for him based on his character  and he plays right along with it  .

It just seems to me that the strategy is to paint Obama as the conniving politician while Mccain is the man that speaks the truth , the one you can trust and the one with character . Obama's recent conflicting moves on issues have only provided more fodder .

Its almost like the roles have been reversed or is about to be reversed from the primary i.e. Obama was the truth teller and Clinton the calculator only now its Obama that has taken the place of Clinton while Mccain is Obama.

Obama and his campaign would be wise to do all it can to make the election about pocketbook issues and not character questions ( eg military service , patriotism, etc )  which Mccain and his camp are trying to draw him into .

by lori 2008-06-30 06:35PM | 0 recs
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Re: Open Thread

Still early in the campaign when, like a boxing match, both opponents manage to land a few well-placed blows, but every fight fan knows the true champ will prove his mettle in the later rounds.

Obama's team has shown a remarkable ability to think on their feet and bring their champ back from some momentary set-backs. McCain's team is sorely lacking.

Later in this match, during the debates, Obama will  clearly show he is far ahead of McCain. The bumbling, stumbling McCain will never recover.

by RickWn 2008-06-30 07:28PM | 0 recs
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Didymus

Great minds think alike and you are spot on here.  Hence Obama's public disavowal.  Consider:


Late Update: As an example, TPM Reader SS writes ...

Am I the only one who thinks that the Obama campaign is winning big here and that the media is being played badly? The conversation has begun - "it's out there" as they say - does McCain's record as a (not-very-good) fighter jock and POW more than thirty years ago in some way qualify him to be Commander-in-Chief? At the same time, Obama "rejects the statement" and "honors and respects Senator McCain's service." How is Obama hurt by this? How is McCain? And now we can let the bloviators compare this honest question to what was done to John Kerry. Remember how Kerry's record was fair game because he brought it up and Bush and Rove pretended like they had nothing to do with the SBVT? Obama seems to have learned the new rules. As a friend of mine likes to say, if I were having any more fun, I'd have to be twins.

As I say above, if they're on this, great.  Experience has taught me not to take it for granted.

Josh Marshall - Once Again Talking Points Memo 30 Jun 08

by Shaun Appleby 2008-07-01 02:56AM | 0 recs
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Re: Didymus

Cool, Josh got it too.  Not a surprise, as he's sharp.  Wonder if they've caught on over at Kos yet?  

by wavery2001 2008-07-01 11:28AM | 0 recs
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Re: Open Thread

Okay, so, don't get me wrong, I disagree with many of the decisions Barack Obama has made since becoming the nominee, but I really don't understand the heat being generated for his centrist shift as of late.

Did anyone expect something different?  Have we ever had candidates who didn't move to the center after the primaries?  I'm even more surprised to see people asserting that Hillary Clinton might not have done the same thing.

Just something that's had me a little miffed lately.

by hornplayer 2008-06-30 07:08PM | 0 recs
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Did anyone expect something different?

Would the former Hillary fans who are doing the bulk of the decrying at Obama's predicted centrist shift have expected any different from her had she prevailed?

What matters is that Obama hasn't ditched the central themes of his primary campaign as Kerry was forced to do by the $25K/plate donors he had to rely on.

by Beren 2008-06-30 07:37PM | 0 recs
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Re: Did anyone expect something different?

Hillary started her shift to the center before Obama did.

But I digress, it's not about Hillary. It's about keeping Obama accountable. Instead of trashing Democratic colleagues and progressive institutions, he should be targeting the other side. Not ours.

I had major problems with Hillary trashing Obama while propping up mcCain in the primary and I have major problems with Obama trashing a good man in Clark now.

Most disappointing, there is no reason to buckle on FISA if you're Obama. Hell, even Bob Barr gets it when it comes to FISA.

by alex100 2008-06-30 08:22PM | 0 recs
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Instead of trashing Democratic colleagues...

That's a figment of your bitter imagination -- or the GOP lie machine.

Obama has done no such thing. But please post quotes and links to back up your baseless smear, if you can.

by Beren 2008-06-30 09:43PM | 0 recs
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Re: Instead of trashing Democratic colleagues...

exactly which "GOP lie machine - baseless smear" are you referring to? Obama capitulating on FISA? Obama distancing himself from Wes Clark? From MoveOn.org?

by alex100 2008-06-30 10:10PM | 0 recs
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Re: Instead of trashing Democratic colleagues...

I asked you to prove your allegation of Obama trashing Democratic colleagues -- which you obviously can't do. So you just added more trash to the pile.

Please provide quotes. Please provide links. Or stand without credit.

by Beren 2008-06-30 10:22PM | 0 recs
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Re: Instead of trashing Democratic colleagues...

and i asked you what specifically you were asking for so I could give you an answer:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/06/obama_campaign_condemns_ wes_cl.php

the video is most maddening. instead of sticking up for Wesley Clark, the campaign pushes his remarks aside while propping up McCain.

by alex100 2008-06-30 10:33PM | 0 recs
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Re: Instead of trashing Democratic colleagues...

I asked for a quote of Obama mentioning Clarke or his statement directly. It doesn't exist.

A military record mudfight is just what McDesperate and his thugs want since he's trailing and has no credible record or platform to challenge Obama on.

Only by taking the high road can Obama deflect the inevitable and already occuring smears which McLame is reliant uopn.

What Clarke said was impeccably true. But he would have served Obama better by pointing out, in tandem with Obama's message, that McSame's military record didn't provide him with the judgement to oppose Bush's disaster.

Those who speak in Obama's behalf in the media need to stick to his message and not freelance, while putting him into positions not of his choosing.

And finally, those who purport to want what's good for America, its people, and the Democratic Party, would do well to stop jumping on the band wagon of every GOP attack against Obama.

Comprende?

by Beren 2008-06-30 10:59PM | 0 recs
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Okay...

I put a little money in the bank today, so I just made small donations to Hillary, Barack, and ActBlue. Now I really need everyone to stay away from my wallet for awhile.

by sricki 2008-06-30 07:16PM | 0 recs
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Re: Open Thread

But Bill already did at the end of Clark's stint at NATO.

by Judeling 2008-06-30 07:23PM | 0 recs
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When is...

When is this "horde of tv ads" supposed to be coming from Obama? I live in NV and we have been getting NOTHING but McCain ads. Every show I watch there's atleast one ad for McCain in it. I literally have YET to see one general election Obama ad. Anyone know why this is and when it should change?

by werd2406 2008-06-30 07:49PM | 0 recs
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2 More!!!

Come on... who has not given.. even 5 bucks will do.

If I beg and say pleeeeaaaase.....!!!! Will that help?

by kevin22262 2008-06-30 08:44PM | 0 recs
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Yes!!

We Did it!!!!

KUDOS to ALL Of YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by kevin22262 2008-06-30 08:58PM | 0 recs
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Gave $5 to Musgrove

I think if we get 60 seats, this one absolutely has to be won and in this kind of year, I believe Mississippi especially offers us a great pickup shot.

by Progressive America 2008-06-30 09:01PM | 0 recs
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Great job!

I want Hagan to kick Doles butt!

We need to get her more cash and more volunteers!

by kevin22262 2008-06-30 09:07PM | 0 recs
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I would have to say...

Not bad for all of us MyDDers in hitting the current goal! Right now MyDD gets about 1/20th to 1/10th the traffic as Dkos does.

Also, MyDD was late in getting their ActBlue graphic going and we all love to chase a 'Bat'!  ;)

by kevin22262 2008-06-30 09:06PM | 0 recs
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how do we get more?

I really think this blog is the best, and wonder myself how can Jerome help this blog expand? I am sick of seeing the Daily Kos be the top one in traffic. its so unworthy with that loser running it.

by Lakrosse 2008-06-30 09:53PM | 0 recs
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Re: how do we get more?

did Markos beat you up when you were a kid or something?

that "loser" had his Site just raise $170k for many wonderful candidates.

by alex100 2008-06-30 10:24PM | 0 recs
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Re: how do we get more?

seriously, why don't you go post there instead of spamming everything I write?

by Lakrosse 2008-06-30 10:29PM | 0 recs
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Re: how do we get more?

seriously, talking about what a "loser" Markos is, is spam.

by alex100 2008-06-30 10:36PM | 0 recs
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my opinion is not spam.

I call him that because he trashes the Clintons for no reason, and is now demagoguing on the man he made our nominee. I want to see a Democrat win, Markos doesn't care. He thinks he's really important and thinks Americans at large are listening to him. That is why I call him a loser. I'm pretty damned sure many if not most on this site would agree with me.

by Lakrosse 2008-06-30 10:38PM | 0 recs
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Re: my opinion is not spam.

there's a lot of conflict in your post. on one hand you call him a loser because you say he "thinks he's really important..." yet he also is "demagoguing on the man HE MADE our nominee".

which is it? is he important? not important? does it matter if he thinks he's important?

by all means, make this site better and bigger if you must. But if Markos is such a "loser", leave his name out of the equation.

by alex100 2008-06-30 10:50PM | 0 recs
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Loser?

I disagree.

I will agree that he went over the edge this primary. He is letting his emotions and his anger control what he does and says.

Dkos is one of the big reasons we have a fighting chance and that alone will help to boost Markos's ego into dangerous territory.

Dkos help bring liberal/progressive/Democratic blogs and the netroots into the mainstream.

by kevin22262 2008-07-01 09:34AM | 0 recs
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Kos is now too good for the nominee he pushed

in that because Obama is moving to the pragmatic center, markos is now not giving to Obama and encouraging others not to do so. Who the fuck does Kos think he is? a celebrity? Because Obama ignores the Kos for the GE, I'm beginning to like him. He's shown that he does not wanna lose, like Dukakis and McGovern did. He knows elections are won in the center. Give to Obama https://donate.barackobama.com/page/cont ribute/standard?source=mainnav here to rank Kos out.

by Lakrosse 2008-06-30 09:52PM | 0 recs
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Re: Kos is now too good for the nominee he pushed

Capitulating on FISA is NOT the "pragmatic center". Attacking your own surrogate for something that wasn't out of line isn't the "pragmatic center".

It's stupid.

At least Obama publicly supported California's same sex marriage act and ignored the DLC during their Chicago convention this weekend.

Speaking of "pragmatism". Is publicly supporting same sex marriage within the "pragmatic center"? I sure hope so but something tells me it isn't.

by alex100 2008-06-30 10:20PM | 0 recs
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Re: Kos is now too good for the nominee he pushed

actually, he did not support the gay marriage act. He just was against the ban. That is not supporting gay marriage, its just doing what he did: say that states should decide it. That is being in the center: not supporting the ban, but not supporting gay marriage. And he didn't attack Clark. he did what he had to for the purpose of getting the media heat away. He is doing what he needs to to win on FISA: if an attack happened, the blame would be "at people like Obama who voted not to give the government tools to fight terror" and he's be Dukakis all over again.

by Lakrosse 2008-06-30 10:29PM | 0 recs
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Re: Kos is now too good for the nominee he pushed

from what I've read, Obama supports California's gay marriage act (and is why he's against the ban). Sure, gay marriage isn't a central policy theme but expanding freedoms is. Seeing that a majority of Americans would feel a lot more comfortable with Obama not saying anything at all its an area that I can give him props.

And you're right, he didn't attack Clark directly but they did hang him out in left field. They should have cleared the record and attacked McCain in the process of doing so. For example, say this: "what clark meant to say was that McCain does not have the skills to make the right judgement and Obama does..." Instead, Axelrod spent 3 minutes building up their opponent and pushing Clark to the fringe.

Obama isn't Dukakis. Nor should progressive principals be so scary that we need to hide them in a closet and move to the "pragmatic center". Whatever that means.

by alex100 2008-06-30 11:05PM | 0 recs
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Re: Kos is now too good for the nominee he pushed

Glad to have you aboard, at last.  Obama never built his campaign for the presidency on the back of the progressive netroots and it's time like these when we can be grateful for it.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-07-01 02:59AM | 0 recs
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Re: Open Thread

Made my first Senate race donation yesterday--  Rick Noriega, heres looking at you kid.

by alyssa chaos 2008-06-30 09:59PM | 0 recs
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Re: Open Thread

Is everyone new to politics? Do they not realize once a candidate wins a primary they move more to the center? Bush did it too...and we ended up getting one of the most conservative presidents (and worst) in history.

Obama's doing what he needs to do to win. When he actually is secure in the Oval Office, that's when he can start to actually be and look more liberal than he is now (the primary obama)

Some people really seem to forget that yes, Obama may be a great Democrat and have great ideas to implement for the country...but he still does have to somewhat follow the typical "road to the White House"

by werd2406 2008-06-30 10:32PM | 0 recs
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Re: Open Thread

Thanks, everyone!

by Todd Beeton 2008-06-30 11:26PM | 0 recs
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Re: Open Thread

What is going on with this Catholic disparity.

Why are they defecting (Irish Catholics included)?

by devoted1 2008-06-30 11:38PM | 0 recs
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Re: Open Thread

When you have a box seat at a bout and see a winning combination which brings out the best of both protagonists and moves the ball down the field without injuring the quarterback is it really credible to take away only that.  You've got to be kidding.  Toss him under the bus?  You've obviously never seen an ace in action with a first class wingman.  It's a deadly combination.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-07-01 12:39AM | 0 recs

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