"Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger"

This, a must read on Clinton, what she won by losing, and for those that are still stuck in despising her... whatever.

This is a good article for mapping out the transformation that happened to candidate Clinton, starting in late February, that really created for her a place she felt comfortable in and that had more appeal than ever before--from that point on her vote total was more than 500,000 beyond Obama's.

On the VP, no quotes, but pretty solid thinking from what we've heard in the past:

now an equally compelling question is, what will she do next?

Naturally, the answer depends, first of all, on whether Obama decides to offer her the VP slot. For all the talk of her trying to muscle her way onto the ticket, one senses in her a genuine ambivalence about whether she wants the job. If Obama does offer it, however, she will have no choice but to take it. She is all too aware that if she turned it down and he lost this fall, she would be blamed even more loudly than she will be already, even though in her view his downfall is foreordained, and has nothing to do with her.

Oh, someone wanted to know, from the comments, if I was voting for Obama against McCain. I think the hardcore Obama supporters are having a tough time dealing with the fact that the rest of us are so ho hum about his candidacy. Look, he could win, and certainly should win, and I'll vote for him. But around the same time that Clinton started shining, Obama started faltering, and I don't think he's recovered fully from it yet. It will take some time. He's clearly in the lead, but its also clear that its a very slim lead, with a lot of undecideds to factor in still. The thing that shakes me up about his chances is that I just paid $4.33 for a gallon of gas, and its this close?!?!

The other thing that's clear is that this race has went into a deep sleep since Clinton dropped out. The traffic on the blogs (not just MyDD), via the Liberal Ad Network stats, has dropped by 25%, from 160M to 120M, monthly. I'm certainly bored by it, and was hoping for the Town Hall events, but that seems a non-starter. All there seems to be, for the next couple of months, is endless VP speculation and a plethora of polls that won't matter come September. Wake me up when it begins.

Tags: Hillary Clinton (all tags)



once you stop promoting Democratic causes...

such as the general election, then, yes, your readership falls, Jerome.

by slinkerwink 2008-06-16 08:08AM | 0 recs
Jerome should take a vacation

from blogging and politics to get some perspective.

by Carl Nyberg 2008-06-16 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Jerome should take a vacation

He traveled to the ends of the earth a few weeks ago (to somehow outrun Hillary's concession?), but it doesn't seem to have helped.

by Firewall 2008-06-16 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Jerome should take a vacation

Clinton supporters are the best. The fact the a historic primary is over has nothing to do with a drop in enthusiasm. It's all about the Clintons. Hillary is soooo awsome. YEAH!

by spacemanspiff 2008-06-16 09:29AM | 0 recs
Frankly It's Just Jerome Who Still Has His Head Up

His Butt!

This site (BUT not Jerome) has managed to move on past the "Oh WHY did Democratic voters spurn the divine love Goddess Hillary? We're all soooo Doomed!"

Short answer: "It was the War Stupid!"

by Cugel 2008-06-16 09:54AM | 0 recs
Head Up Their Ass? Not Jerome

Obama voted to continue funding this war, took a pass on Kyl Lieberman, and frankly has no real plan to extracate us. Someone obviously has their head up their ass, and it ain't Jerome.

Troll rated for insulting this site's host with blather.

by Xov Wonk 2008-06-16 04:45PM | 0 recs
Re: once you stop promoting Democratic causes...

Open Left had a post a few days ago about the declining readership among some blogs.  Let me post what they noted:

http://openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId =6351


The numbers are all "Reach" measures:

June 1: 0.04

June 6: 0.05

June 10: 0.06

That's about a 50% increase in 9 days.


June 1: about .010

June 6: .008

June 10: .002

Here's OpenLeft:

June 1: .004

June 6: .004

June 10: .005

And finally, TalkLeft:

June 1: .007

June 6: .005

June 10: .003

Me again:
So the decline on the blogs appears to be concentrated among the blogs that supported Hillary.  DK, the most prominent pro-Obama blog, saw large increases, at least until June 10, and its readership yesteday according to Alexa is 32% higher than it was 3 months ago (although page views per user is down 5%).

Note: I'm by no means an expert in measuring blog traffic, and I know that some prefer sitemeter.  So my conclusions on this could be erroneous.  But I assume Openleft knows what its talking about on this stuff, and note that a 60% decline on MyDD would affect numbers across the sphere (also note: MyDD's numbers are still WAYYY up from 3 months ago, per Alexa- up 73%!---so while there's been a recent "decline" its still much higher than it was, if I'm understanding all this correctly).  

by bosdcla14 2008-06-16 01:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Amateur Hour

I'm by no means an expert in measuring blog traffic

No kidding.

by Xov Wonk 2008-06-16 04:47PM | 0 recs
A breather

So traffic is down, but people need to recover. Who could have imagined four long months of arguments and counter arguments. It wasn't sustainable, and the primaries ran their course.

Personally, I thought Obama's father's day speech was great, and worth more attention.

PS. I didn't detect any snark in this diary.

by duende 2008-06-16 08:10AM | 0 recs
Re: A breather

I personally thought Obama's Father's Day speech was little more than pandering, at best.

by Xov Wonk 2008-06-16 04:50PM | 0 recs
more bitter talking points

The primaries are over. We get it, you're unhappy that your candidate lost.


"The thing that shakes me up about his chances is that I just paid $4.33 for a gallon of gas, and its this close?!?!"

Clinton only ever polled, at best, one or two points better than Obama, sometimes she polled worse than Obama. This jab really fails to connect.

Better not to jab at all, though, we're on the same side now.

by Stroszek 2008-06-16 08:12AM | 0 recs
Re: more bitter talking points

Maybe the general public is smart enough to know that neither Obama nor McCain can instantly solve the great gas debacle?

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-16 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: more bitter talking points

Well, it's never unwise to doubt the intelligence of the general public. I suspect what's really going on with these polls is that a solid 15-20% won't even begin to start paying attention until the last week of October. Sure, these people hate high gas prices, but they're also the sort of folks who are still jonesing for that badass Escalade.

by Stroszek 2008-06-16 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: more bitter talking points

Heh, you're not kidding.

I think it's going to take a long summer before the upper middle class feels the burn the way a lot of the lower/lower-middle class folks do now.  ACs are going to crank on, and people's jaws are going to be on the floor when they factor in their power bills.

Airline fares are skyrocketing, meaning no end-of-summer trips to Grandma's for a family of 5.

Gas is going to hit $5 a gallon without some serious magic- no driving to Grandma's for us.

That Suburban you bought last year for $39,000?  You're lucky to get $10k for it, and that's if you can sell it.

Food prices skyrocket, and with increased transit costs so does the price of everything else.

It's going to be a nasty summer, and a lot of people are going to get hurt that have escaped it in the past.  Obama's on message and he has the plan, let's see if America perks up and pays attention.  My guess- once the debates kick in, and once the reality of the summer comes in, we see a 10 point shift to Obama in polls, and an even bigger turnout on election day.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-16 08:22AM | 0 recs
Re: more bitter talking points

Obama's on message and he has the plan

Really? What's the plan?

by Xov Wonk 2008-06-16 04:52PM | 0 recs
Re: more bitter talking points

One could "ask", or, alternatively, if one actually wanted to know, one could actually take about nineteen seconds and Google "Obama's Plan".  One would then quickly find Barack Obama's official website, shockingly enough located at BarackObama.com, and discover a sixty page PDF file containing said plan.

But really, you don't really want to know, do you?

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-16 06:42PM | 0 recs
Re: more bitter talking points

Google "Obama's plan" and you'll find "Obama's plan for defeat" as one of the top 10. Truth is, there IS no real plan or you could summarize it in 19 seconds. This may come as a HUGE insight, but Obama.com does NOT contain the contents to solve all the world's problems -- not even ONE of them.

by Xov Wonk 2008-06-16 07:10PM | 0 recs
No wai!!!

I was assured by a very sophisticated political operative that the gas tax pander was electoral gold.

by JJE 2008-06-16 08:34AM | 0 recs
The primaries are over!?!

Get over it already.

by Avandi 2008-06-16 08:12AM | 0 recs
Re: The primaries are over!?!

I don't remember whining as much when Kerry won and Dean lost.

Democrats are in the strongest position of my lifetime.
When I watch the 2000 and 2004 clips on TV, I realize that we were barely doing anything.

The campaign is vibrant, and regardless of what Jerome says, Obama is going to CRUSH John McCain.

People need to get to know Obama?  Ha, wait till they get to know the great pander bear of American politics John McCain.

I wonder what people will whine about this Nov 6 when we have total control of the government?

Please put this into perspective.
Last Week America DID NOT have the right to Habeas Corpus.
And what happened, a BIPARTISAN court came in and threw down Bush's attempt at rewriting the Magna Carta.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-16 08:21AM | 0 recs
Re: The primaries are over!?!

Actually a partisan court came together and did that, which is even more telling

by Dog Chains 2008-06-16 08:28AM | 0 recs
We'll wake you Jerome...

...assuming it's at all possible to rouse the bolosphere's own Rip Van Winkle.

by fogiv 2008-06-16 08:12AM | 0 recs
I come around here less.

When the Obama-Clinton race was in full swing, this was an exciting spot.  Good discussion (some) bad discussion, and spirited debate.

Before that, there were people writing great diaries on issues that I found interesting.  Health care, welfare, international affairs- smart stuff.

In the last month, this site has slipped into a bit of a coma.  Partially unavoidable, since the big primary spectacle is over, but instead of picking up where we were before, all I see are:

-Diaries about sexism.
-Diaries from people yelling at the people for writing a diary of sexism.
-Diaries from people earning McCain points.
-Diaries from people explaining what hoops Obama must jump through to win their votes
-Diaries yelling at said people
-Diaries about this poll result or that poll result and how it's either our saving grace or our Doom.

What's the point?  We could sit and sift through congressional races, which would be great.  We could sift through Obama's platform and find what we like, and what we don't, and call for change where we see it needs to be there.

But people are still stuck in this Clinton vs Obama mindset, and until that goes away, MyDD goes from a "subscribe via RSS and check the site every 20 min or so" to a "check at the end of the day and see what happened then move on".

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-16 08:13AM | 0 recs
Re: I come around here less.

Do you see that ever going away?

From what I can tell of these people it is going to be the mindset straight through to election day. And then if Obama gets elected we are in for 4 years of how Clinton would have done it... and if Obama loses the election we are in for 4 years of being told that Clinton would have won and that those who voted for Obama abandoned/destroyed the Democratic party.

Obviously it will be only a few people saying this, but they are going to be loud and they are going to have an army of accounts to Recc their diaries.

by JDF 2008-06-16 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: I come around here less.

I do, frankly.  I see less and less of this Clinton worship every day.  But what I don't see are people coming back who fled to Kos, or AmericaBlog, or other blogs to avoid the constant barrage of insults Obama supporters had to put up with around here.  The removing of rec/rate en masse was the final straw for more than one long term MyDDer here, even those who didn't get caught in the net.

The Alegre and Co. show is over, but I'm hoping people realize and come back.  My worry isn't that this is Clinton sore loser central for the next four years (really, once the election kicks up, I do think things will be better), my worry is that we move on from Clinton and there are about 20 people left to post.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-16 09:17AM | 0 recs
Re: I come around here less.

Funny. My worry is that this is the Obama sore loser central for the next four years.

by Xov Wonk 2008-06-16 04:57PM | 0 recs
Re: I come around here less.

I keep thinking, "OK, MyDD is finally going to get it's act together and get focused on winning the general", and I keep getting disappointed.  The primaries have been over for weeks now and people on this site just want to re-hash them forever.  I'm not sure if it's tragic or farcical but whatever, it's a sad state for one of the pioneer sites of liberal blogging to be in.

by Gene In PA 2008-06-16 09:08AM | 0 recs
Primary Burnout

I think the fact that a lot of non-Democrats who had an interest in keeping our contest going stopped coming here, or that enthusiasm for fighting with said non-Democrats has fallen, is combining with sheer burnout from the intensity of emotion that was our primaries.

Without the Democratic horserace keeping readership up, the site needs to expand and improve coverage on other issues.

by Dracomicron 2008-06-16 08:14AM | 0 recs
Bored too

A classic post by Jerome.  He hits his main points

-HRC wins even when she loses!  Its all about HRC.

-Its the Obama supporters who are having a tough time dealing.  Everything is their fault.

-Passive aggressiveness

The other thing that's clear is that this race has went into a deep sleep since Clinton dropped out. The traffic on the blogs (not just MyDD), via the Liberal Ad Network stats, has dropped by 25%, from 160M to 120M, monthly. I'm certainly bored by it, and was hoping for the Town Hall events, but that seems a non-starter. All there seems to be, for the next couple of months, is endless VP speculation and a plethora of polls that won't matter come September. Wake me up when it begins.

OpenLeft found that HRC blogs readership is down, pro-Obama readership is up.  But I guess we should all be less interested now that HRC is out.

by PantsB 2008-06-16 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Bored too

OpenLeft has stats:

First DailyKos which is an order of magnitude ahead of the others in overall traffic (could be due to a difference, though, in the way pages are indexed, etc.) but we can still see trends:

The numbers are all "Reach" measures:
Daily Kos:
June 1: 0.04
June 6: 0.05
June 10: 0.06

June 1: about .010
June 6: .008
June 10: .002

June 1: .004
June 6: .004
June 10: .005

June 1: .007
June 6: .005
June 10: .003

When I hit DKos, I don't see diaries about Clinton.  I see diaries about all sorts of things.  Clinton doesn't interest me right now any more than Gravel or Dodd does- they're all out.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-16 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Bored too

Exactly, it seems many on the pro-Clinton side actually bought their own spin that there was a market of 18,000,000 Democrats hungry for a site that consists of lazy griping about the nominee mixed with a continuous spattering of the neo-LaRouchies' anti-Obama conspiracy theories. There's not. That idea is about as compelling as a cable news channel dedicated to following around failed candidates.

BREAKING: Tom Tancredo doing well in his Fantasy Baseball league!

by Stroszek 2008-06-16 08:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Bored too

Wow, that's pretty dramatic. But to be expected, I guess.

by animated 2008-06-16 08:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Bored too

Thanks for the stats, Funny how Kos and that other one went up in readership.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-16 08:44AM | 0 recs
There's some contention

On how much each went up (MyDD and talkleft definitely went down, Kos definitely went up slightly, Open Left doesn't seem to have changed much).

OpenLeft is Matt Stoller and Chris Bowers new site btw.

by PantsB 2008-06-16 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: There's some contention

Yeah, these stats are always to be taken with a grain of salt.  But you need to only look at the diaries and comments, the number and quality of them, and the people writing them, to get a clear sense that things are jumping over at Kos and in a coma around here.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-16 09:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Bored too

And how is the Confluence doing?

by masslib1 2008-06-16 09:39AM | 0 recs
Save HRC and Democrats reputation.

Can you please make it clear you have no associations with NoQuarter and their thugs and America haters are not welcome here.

If you supported Hillary during the primary and now after, how can you let these people drag her whole career and reputation into the mud.

Obama and the DNC have put Larry Johnson in the same hopper as Floyd Brown.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/f ightthesmearshome/
[Look at the FIRST entry]

Noquarter along with a few others are now actively campaigning to bring down the Democratic party.
They have stated they want to smear any down ticket race that is even related to Obama.

Jerome please take a stand.

If Floyd Brown is not welcome here, I don't see how the Larry Johnson's hit squad are allowed.

I am not saying for you to ban members but at least say you are not associated with him or his like.  Many times this site is accused of being a friendly despot for members of his site and the other 2 mirror sites.
I hope and believe that is not the case.

[Also I am pretty sure that the NoQuarter and Hillaryis44 was brought to the attention of the Secret Service for violent threats against the lives of Obama and his wife made last Friday]

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-16 08:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Save HRC and Democrats reputation.

Doesn't this diary tell you all you need to know about Jerome's head. I mean really, we have one guy looking to keep the last 7 year party going, or a guy who believes in everything (for the most part) that this guys person did, yet he is ho hum for November. that's just sad to see.

by Dog Chains 2008-06-16 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Save HRC and Democrats reputation.

What did you expect?  This is a Jerome Armstrong original - he is a poor man's Allegre - all the innuendo and sniping without the clever "Hey gang" references.

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-06-16 08:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Save HRC and Democrats reputation.

Jerome, please respond to this.

I can see the chorus building up.

You know Hillary is going to condemn these groups, especially "PUMA" who truely humiliated HRC's entire candidacy and career.

You got to give it to Neil Cavuto, he did his job for the FIRST time in his life.
I bet these clowns thought they were in a "safe" zone.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-16 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Save HRC and Democrats reputation.

Wow, for someone I don't like, he actually seems as incredulous as i do about how ridiculous these people sound

by Dog Chains 2008-06-16 11:20AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you str

Ummm.. She dint' win by 500,000 votes, in fact she didn't win the popular vote at all... unless, of course, you count illegal elections and discount legal caucus ones.

Amazing that the Clinton supporters are so eager to scream disenfranchisement about MI, but have no qualms about eliminating the votes of at least 4 other states.

And yes, we don't understand why you are so "ho hum" about a guy who was the first person in 30 years to beat a Clinton.  Obama is going to transform the map and give us a permanent democratic majority...

But, that's not something to get excited about, is it?

by LordMike 2008-06-16 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you str

He means if you include only the primaries and caucuses since Wisconsin Clinton won by 500,000 votes.  It is kind of like saying the [insert losing team] scored more points in the second half of the game. It may be true but it is irrelevant.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-16 08:26AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you str

Oh, you mean scoring during "garbage time"... when the other team has an insurmountable lead, so they put their scrubs in, but the losing team keeps their starters and set a bunch of meaningless offensive scoring records against token opposition... yeah, it looks great on a stat sheet... but meaningless in the end...

by LordMike 2008-06-16 09:39AM | 0 recs
More sour grapes. n/t

by spunkmeyer 2008-06-16 08:18AM | 0 recs
" I think the hardcore Obama supporters
 are having a tough time dealing with the fact that the rest of us are so ho hum about his candidacy . . ."
How true.  We're losing two wars, the economy's in the crapper, gas in over $4 per gallon, Obama's at 45% and falling, and the big problem is . . . concern trolls?
I still think she'd be at 55% by now.
by kosnomore 2008-06-16 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: " I think the hardcore Obama supporters

Huh? At the end of the primaries, she was doing about 1 point better than Obama in tracking polls. 1 point. I mean I realize imaginations are fun because you get to dream up whatever you want but you really should keep those fantasies to yourself. Saying "I still think she'd be at 55% now" is about as relevant or interesting as me saying "I think Obama would be at 98% if he had laser beam eyes!"

by Stroszek 2008-06-16 08:22AM | 0 recs
Re: " I think the hardcore Obama supporters

I'd be Superman if I had only been born in Krypton.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-06-16 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: " I think the hardcore Obama supporters

You're entitled to your own opinions, but these made up facts are just silly!

by Dog Chains 2008-06-16 08:23AM | 0 recs
What "made up facts"?
We're losing two wars (true?)
The economy's in the crapper (true?)
Gas is over $4 (true?)
The situation is ripe for a dem (true?)
I think Hillary would be doing at least 8 points better than Obama.  
I think alot of the undecideds are Hillary leaners / supporters waiting on Obama's VP choice  
I'm entitled to my own thoughts without being insulted, no?
Why does someone thinking at variance to you cause you the need to insult someone?
by kosnomore 2008-06-16 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: What "made up facts"?

I think making up some imaginary baseline that HRC would be up by 8% more is just fascinating since it has no basis in reality and at this point does nothing to solve the problems you stated. Sorry, I'm forced to live in the real world. And when did i insult you, I said making up facts was silly, take the sensitivity factor down a few notches.

by Dog Chains 2008-06-16 08:35AM | 0 recs
Saying "I think"
implies what it is, no?
And I think Obama is below 45% because some Hillary supporters are still on the fence.
And, frankly, polling data seems to support that opinion.
Disagreement with you is not a lie, or silly, delusional.
Why the problem with folks who disagree with you?
"I'm forced to live in the real world"?  Then be more tolerant of diversity, of opinion, of sex, of age, of race, in all its glory.
by kosnomore 2008-06-16 09:14AM | 0 recs

I think gravity is just a conspiracy of Big Oil and Euro-centric thought!

I think Hillary would be doing at least 8 points better than Obama.  
I think alot of the undecideds are Hillary leaners / supporters waiting on Obama's VP choice  
I'm entitled to my own thoughts without being insulted, no?

You are entitled to your opinion.  But you are not entitled to your own facts.- Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (probably)

You are as entitled to your own opinions just as much as Stroszek is entitled to call them silly.  Just don't expect us to be swayed by baseless claims.

by PantsB 2008-06-16 08:52AM | 0 recs
Because of people like this, right?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 608/From_Jeffersons_vs_Hemingses_to_McCa in_vs_Obama.html

Hmm, and HRC supporters are never racist, right.

by monkeyga 2008-06-16 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Because of people like this, right?

I think you're painting with too broad a brush.  Yes, some are.  Yes, some Obama supporters are sexist.

The person/people to whom you are linking are being lead by an agent provocateur.  Some percentage of those folks (or more specifically their leadership) are not Democrats, but are using angry Democrats to hurt our party.

I'd appreciate it if you'd walk back from this statement.

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-16 10:47AM | 0 recs
You're late

The others have left the building (no doubt when Hillary stopped paying them two fridays ago).

by mikeinsf 2008-06-16 10:36AM | 0 recs
Damning with faint praise

I'm so glad you will fight through your ennui and depression to pull the lever for Obama in November. Your enthusiasm is breathtaking! It's clear your commitment to the liberal agenda surpasses personal preference for a candidate no longer in the presidential picture.

Yes, Obama is so boring. Life without Hillary is just an empty glass from the glamorous party of her campaign, coated with the dregs of the excitement of her candidacy. She shone while he faltered. Oh, yeah.

This isn't about hating Hillary, Jerome. It's about loving the possibility that we might get a more moral administration next year. Your reputation as a liberal is at stake. Slumber until November if you wish, Jerome. But no real liberal would think of it.

by LAM 2008-06-16 08:18AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever doesn't kill you

Damn gas is expensive. Gosh, Hillary Clinton would have handled it so much better, thats why her lead over John McCain was like, sixty points or something!

by b1oody8romance7 2008-06-16 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever doesn't kill you

Yeah- so THAT'S why she won the primaries in a landslide!

Er, oh wait...

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-16 09:19AM | 0 recs
No wonder this site is floundering

with 'leadership' like this.  This is really some sad, delusional stuff here Jerome.  Obama supporters are the ones struggling?  This stuff is just embarrassing.  It would be one thing coming from just some random silly person, but isn't this your site?  

Hillary wasn't 'shining' as she ran parallel attacks with the GOP on Obama.  That 'polished gold' crap is, let me say it again, embarrassing as hell.  Coming from supposed Democrats, this stuff makes me blush.  Maybe you should go into phone sales or something and leave politics alone?  

by Sun Dog 2008-06-16 08:23AM | 0 recs
Primary fatigue and listless support....

....exacerbated here by a real antagonism towards the primary results.

So much to talk about now, but people on both sides still seem stuck in the primary.  I guess that's natural and will end at some point.

Meanwhile, analyses of polling data (even this far out), Obama's policy positions, how his campaign is responding to McCain and how they are organizing now, voter registration efforts, local races, all should be providing fodder for front page pieces and mostly are not.  There is a lot to be said but the same things keep being addressed over and over again, in some weird loop.  

When this ends and there is some kind of unity I think things will change.  If there isn't we will lose.  

by mady 2008-06-16 08:23AM | 0 recs
No offense Jerome..

But you were certainly awake enough yesterday to post McCain internet ads, then pretend to be interested in what Obama would do about it.

I'm sorry, but unless she is offered the VP and accepts, we really aren't going to be hearing much from Hillary up until the general election. That's the sad truth, and if you're going to feign indifference, then so be it.

Just make sure that you continue your self imposed slumber next time you get a "IZ OBAMA TEH DUM? YEZ OR NOEZ?" pop up ad.

by Massadonious 2008-06-16 08:24AM | 0 recs
"This close"

While I can't argue against it being 'this close' it certainly isn't 'close' pre se.

Obama is polling better than bush EVER polled against Kerry.

by lojasmo 2008-06-16 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: "This close"

And he's doing that after McCain got a couple of months head start.  He's doing that with supposed Democratic activists like Jerome here still sniping him from behind.  He's doing that with influential outlets like the NYTimes and CNN still repeating the trollish bullshit from Hillary's campaign about the 'trouble' Obama has with this group or that while ignoring the fact that his opponent is having more trouble with more groups because OBAMA IS FUCKING WINNING!

by Sun Dog 2008-06-16 08:41AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever doesn't kill you


Hillary didn't 'start to shine.'  She hit the states with her best demographics right around the time Obama was dealing with the Rev. Wright.  This has created a situation in which partisans saw her as improving.

But she never really did.  Her polling numbers never went up nationally, her negatives never really dropped.  There isn't a lot of data to support your contention that cannot be easily explained through demographics....

by Lawyerish 2008-06-16 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever doesn't kill you

The facts haven't mattered to Jerome for many months.  Why should that start now?  

by Sun Dog 2008-06-16 08:42AM | 0 recs
The Church of -Scien- . . .

Well said.

I, too, have been quite surprised by the reactions of my pro-Obama friends who can't quite seem to grasp that I'm okay with Obama . . . just "okay."  

Since when did the democratic party turn into a religion?

by prodigal 2008-06-16 08:29AM | 0 recs
Re: The Church of -Scien- . . .

Since Hillary started to Shine like Polished Gold Chalices of Salvation.  Or something.  

by Sun Dog 2008-06-16 08:43AM | 0 recs
Falling readership.

Your readership is falling, because you keep blogging about Clinton instead of about Obama, Jerome. And she's no longer on the race. That and that alone makes your blog irrelevant.

by Aris Katsaris 2008-06-16 08:29AM | 0 recs
All this bitterness won't bring Hillary back.

Face it, man. The primaries are over. You're either with Obama, or you're with McCain. If you really support Clinton, you'd be with her in doing everything to get a Democrat elected this November, rather than thinking up new ways to undermine our nominee.

by Firewall 2008-06-16 08:30AM | 0 recs

Wow, I'm sort of surprised this post has generated so much criticism.  

Personally, I agree that this is a bit of a down period -- and naturally so after the crazy-long primary period -- and think that's probably a good thing.  We still have a long way to go till November, so a bit of a summer lull strikes me as healthy.  Likewise, I fail to see how anythign Jerome said here is surprising or particularly offensive.  He doesn't much like Obama, but he will obviously vote for him and prefers him to McCain.  So what?  If you like Obama, then try to keep in mind the fact that your guy (my guy too) won.  That ought to help you be little less grouchy about others not being quite as enthusiastic.    

by HSTruman 2008-06-16 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Ha

They are frustrated, the truth hurts.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-06-16 09:36AM | 0 recs

The people who think the candidate is more important than the cause are frustrated, the truth about Clinton winning votes during primary garbage time hurts.


by John in Chicago 2008-06-16 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you

"Losing is winning!"

Also, are you ever going to get around to eating that shoe?

by really not a troll 2008-06-16 08:32AM | 0 recs

I think the hardcore Obama supporters are having a tough time dealing with the fact that the rest of us are so ho hum about his candidacy.

well said.

I will vote for Obama, but I am not excited about him as I was about Hillary.  How can Obama excite the millions of HRC supporters who will vote for Obama but do nothing else?

This isn't sour grapes - the only candidate I voted for in a primary that went to the GE was Gore.  My choice in 1984, 1988, 1992 and 2004 didn't get to the GE - yet, I was excited to work for them - as a volunteer, spreading the news, talking to people.

I don't feel that "luv" this election.  I may never feel it.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-16 08:33AM | 0 recs
Then get out of the way

No one expects you to love Obama.  If you do claim to support his nomination then we do expect you to stop making it harder for him to get elected.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-16 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way

hello?  What is that supposed to mean?

"expect me to stop making it harder for him to get elected"

what kind of BS statement is that?  So, it is ObamaTalk all the time and nothing else?

And what is making it harder for him to get elected?  Can't criticize his platforms or his positions until after the GE?

come on - what type of crazy talk is that?

by colebiancardi 2008-06-16 08:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way

oh and you have no business telling anyone to "get out of the way"

by colebiancardi 2008-06-16 08:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way

so, NewOaklandDem, why was this hide worthy?

a poster told me to "get out of the way" and I responded.

Fess Up and remove the HR.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-16 09:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way

Hit the wrong key.  Sorry.

by NewOaklandDem 2008-06-16 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way


I was wondering why that would be HR worthy

by colebiancardi 2008-06-16 10:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way

I would love it if you critisized his platforms or his postions.  Instead we get to read about your feelings and how much you don't "luv" Obama.  We get it.  Let's move on.  Why don't you tell us why you don't "luv" him? That might be constructive.

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-16 10:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way

sigh.  I have gone over that in other diaries.

do I have to post that in every diary now?  

by colebiancardi 2008-06-16 11:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way

The point I am making is that complaining about how much you don't "luv" Obama isn't helpful.  This is especially true if you don't mention why you don't "luv" him.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-16 11:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way

I was agreeing with the diarist's point about feeling ho-hum.

my god - this is why I will never fully be overjoyed and overwhelmed by this election year.  The bullies come out in full force.  You might just want to get out of the way as well.

I have stated before the reasons why.  I felt no reason to do so again in this diary and your bullying tactics only made me more stubborn.  

Do your own homework.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-16 11:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way

The diarist didn't point out the reasons he felt ho-hum about Obama either.  The fact that you refuse to restate you reasons for feeling ho-hum about Obama leads me to believe they aren't substantive.

Other than the fact that he beat Clinton I haven't heard any specific reasons why Clinton supporters feel ho-hum about Obama.  

Do your own homework.

Communication is a two way street my friend.  If you don't want to be "misunderstood" then you need to clarify your position when it is challenged.  The fact that you refuse to clarify makes me think you prefer to be "misunderstood".  But whatever.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-16 11:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way

no, there was no "misunderstanding".

You are choosing to be a thug.  And I refuse dance that dance with you.  

You can look it up or not.  I don't have millions of posts here and in fact, I wrote about it in a couple of my diaries.

The fact that you are threatening people and slapping labels on them for ONE reason and ONE reason only means to me you are no better than a bully.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-16 11:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Then get out of the way

Let me take off my thug hat and put on my concern troll hat for a minute.  

Remember your audience.  I am not the only one reading your comments.  If you won't explain why you aren't in "luv" with Obama then it looks as if you can't explain it.  It really isn't that tough.  You could have done it by now but instead you accuse me of threatening and bullying you.  

Regardless of what you think of me, if you truly have problems with Obama then we, as Democrats, should be able to sort out those problems.  When you refuse to state those problems but continue to  voice your dissatisfaction with the candidate you are only making it more difficult for Obama or his supporters to address your concerns.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-06-16 12:07PM | 0 recs
Colebiancardi isn't making it

harder for for Obama to get elected. Why would you say that, when s/he just said s/he'd vote for Obama. Not everyone has to be ecstatic about the nominee.

That was an incredibly unfair comment.

by sricki 2008-06-16 08:47AM | 0 recs
One too many "for's" in there... n/t

by sricki 2008-06-16 08:52AM | 0 recs
Re: re:

I loved my candidate JRE, but when he lost it was not the end of the world.  Why, because number one I am a democrat first and that comes before any individual running for president.

by Spanky 2008-06-16 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: re:

it isn't the end of the world for me either.

I am also a number 1 democrat first.

however, the only thing I am doing is just marking the box next to Obama's name this election cycle.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-16 08:45AM | 0 recs

also, for those who state quit talking about Hillary, well, sorry folks.  She is an amazing person and so is her husband.

I hope we continue to talk about strong democrats like Hillary and BC for years to come.  

we want them on our side.  And you should as well

by colebiancardi 2008-06-16 08:34AM | 0 recs

Agreed, and I read the article referenced here earlier this morning, enjoyed it and i hope she has some powerful position in the near future, she's earned it. Might go over better if every time the Clintons were discussed now, there wasn't also a need to put obama and his chances down. just my opinion.

by Dog Chains 2008-06-16 08:38AM | 0 recs

Thats my big problem.  I have no problem with people saying that Hillary is great, I like many of the things her and her husband did/are doing to, but this whole BS line about Obama needing Clinton to win is kind of insulting and demeaning to Obama.  The truth is, you can talk highly of Clinton without pissing on Obama.

by tlhwraith 2008-06-16 08:44AM | 0 recs

I am stating in general, you want Hillary & Bill to stay strong democrats and fight for our ideals - has nothing to do with Obama.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-16 08:46AM | 0 recs

I hear ya.

by tlhwraith 2008-06-16 08:51AM | 0 recs

I don't think anyone is saying to stop talking about Hillary, or Bill. I have the utmost respect for both.

It's just that the primaries are over, and unless she becomes the VP, she's really not going to be as relevant as she used to be until the GE comes creeping closer and she starts campaigning and stumping for Obama. That's just how it's going to be.

Jerome likes Hillary, and that's fine. But, he still seems to be stuck in primary mode, and wants to be stuck there until November. If he truly cared about "Crashing The Gate", he would be doing it with the rest of us, instead of constantly dreaming about how it could of been.

by Massadonious 2008-06-16 08:42AM | 0 recs

I'll talk about Hillary as much as I please, and I don't particularly care what others think about it. I'll write about Obama and other issues, too, but I expect I'll spend more time talking about what Hillary is doing (and how she's helping his campaign) than some people might prefer.

by sricki 2008-06-16 08:51AM | 0 recs
Just sit on your ass and whine all summer.

You're bored.  Boo fricken hoo.    

You'll vote for Obama, but he doesn't excite you.  You got a big platform, get off your ass and do something with it.  Instead using it to whine about your nominee, why not find a dozen senate, congressional and governor candidates that can get you motivated, and raise their profile?  Or analyze which states can best utilize additional resources this summer in improving democratic prospects in the fall.  Or are your days of crashing gates behind you?  Time to coast?

Me?  I'm excited.  And doing something about it.

by jimotto 2008-06-16 08:38AM | 0 recs
Ho Hum

The gate is being crashed, Jerome.  We'll wake you afterwards, I guess.

by Koan 2008-06-16 08:38AM | 0 recs
The gate is being crashed, Jerome

He knows. He's watching it from the ramparts.

by Freespeechzone 2008-06-16 09:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Ho Hum


by alex100 2008-06-16 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Ho Hum

Terrific comment.

Reading Jerome's posts these days is like seeing your favorite band or actor cashing it in years after their prime. You remember how excellent they used to be, you keep hoping they'll regain their form, but it just ain't happening. Jerome circa 2008 is a shell of the guy I started reading in 2004.

To think the purported blogfather would be "bored" by the end of BushCo., by the possibility of a filibuster-proof Senate, by withdrawal from Iraq, and everything else at stake in this election. Guess all that silly stuff doesn't matter if your most favoritest candidate in the world doesn't win.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-06-16 10:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Ho Hum

This is an excellent analogy and it explains why traffic is down here. I know that I don't read MyDD as often because of crap like this.

I don't care if you're not excited about Obama but if you really care about progressive issues then stop trying to undermine the Democratic nominee.

by cmize 2008-06-16 03:19PM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever doesn't kill

Hillary should have ran as herself and not as a surrogate Bill Clinton.  Also, she should not have pandered to women, because  she did not have to.  She would have been a much better candidate if she would have stayed positive.  These are some of the reasons she lost.  I never hated Hillary, I just thought that the Clintons had their time, and it was time for a change from Bushes, and Clintons.  Obama is a great step in a new direction.

by Spanky 2008-06-16 08:39AM | 0 recs
The partisan rangling must go!

Wow, this is a pretty partisan post that I'm not sure accomplishes much.  What I mean by that is, I have no problem with someone "liking" Clinton, but there's absolutely no attempt at providing reasonable perspective.

Clintons popularity has increased, compared to what?  Arguably her political future is a big ole TBD right now and I think, as usual, her and her supporters are believing too much of their own inevitability.  If you look at polling data a year ago versus now, her numbers dropped in almost every category.  However, since because in the last month of the primary her numbers went from horrendous to OK now we are back to "Hillary the great" again?  When are you people going to learn, the myth of the Clintons is partly manufactured by the Clintons and as such not based in reality.  

Let me be clear, If Clinton was the nominee today, I'd vote for her simply because ideologically she is a match to my beliefs.  That's a hard statement for me because the last 2 months of the primary really turned me off to the Clintons because of "the kitchen sink" strategy.  If anything this primary has shown that the reality of the Clintons as candidates is sometimes a little lackluster compared to the myth of the Clintons as icons.

For as much as people talk about how she may have won the popular vote, the reality is that her and Obama were darn near even, and that's actually a huge loss for Clinton.  By her own admission, until the very first primary Clinton was the hands down favorite to win.  She had the support of party insiders, she had the money, she had the name recognition, and she had one of the most beloved Dem POTUSs in recent memory to act as her standard bearer.  The fact that she lost to a junior Senator who started with little money, little support from party insiders, and no one else but himself to be his cheerleader is pretty telling of the flaws in "the myth of Clinton".

Can we please move on from the VP stuff?  Honestly, its almost insulting when people frame the issue as "Clinton has a responsibility to take the job" and such.  The truth is, she lost and that should send a serious chill up the spine of everyone who is advocating that she is somehow "needed".  Again, the myth of the Clintons is that their magic powers can rally the masses and they can win, but reality hurts and the first time Hillary Clinton faced a major opponent in an election campaign, she lost.  The numbers are already showing that Obama is steadily converting the Hillary supporters over, and that's the best thing for us as a party.  We simply don't have the luxury of believing in icons right now.  I support Obama mostly because he has shown he can run a top-shelf campaign organization.  Obama had a plan "from day one" and he executed it well, using the grassroots in a way other candidates have never seen.  This is what will win the election, not the symbolism of having a Clinton on the ticket.

The "Obama supporters" don't have to get over anything, our guy won.  Seems to me a lot of die-hard Clinton people really need to wake up to reality and realize that their candidate came up short, it happens, someone has to lose.  In my brain I know that ideologically Clinton and Obama are dead even, but Obama has shown a clear edge in out-managing Clingon and (arguably) stirring emotional support.  The real issue, IMO, is are Clinton supporters man/woman enough to step up and put their hard feelings aside?  The country is in deep doo-doo and this really isn't the time to let some desire for revenge lead to possibly one of the least best fits for POTUS (McCain) walking into the office on the backs of Democratic discord.  I can understand people feeling slighted about Clinton losing, but we knew back in February that this was going to be decided ugly.  Time to clean the blood off the floor and throw it out as we move into the WH.

by tlhwraith 2008-06-16 08:41AM | 0 recs

The polls won't matter until September, but in the last few days you've repeatedly referred to the daily tracking polls and the closeness of the race?  Do I have that right?

by rfahey22 2008-06-16 08:42AM | 0 recs
Strange that the multiple-personality

attack on Hillary, of which this "started to shine" nonsense is but a variant, is now somehow seen as a compliment to her.

by JJE 2008-06-16 08:43AM | 0 recs
The door swings both ways.
If you find this site, its admins, and its participants so offensive, leave.  Buh-bye.
Instead, you're like a bunch of hyenas, waiting to pounce as soon as anyone posts something you don't like.  Juvenile and disruptive, IMHO.
by kosnomore 2008-06-16 08:47AM | 0 recs
Re: The door swings both ways.

I don't know if people were offended as much as disagreed with the posts position.  There is a difference and I don't think telling people to go because they show disagreement is particularly helpful either.

by tlhwraith 2008-06-16 08:49AM | 0 recs
Read all the insults.
Read all the comments that snark and insult and name call instead of engage and debate.  I love debate.  I hate insults.
To the folks ever ready with "this site sucks", I say go to one you think is less sucky.  IMHO.
by kosnomore 2008-06-16 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Read all the insults.

You hate insults yet you're resorting to name-calling? I don't understand...

by cmize 2008-06-16 03:21PM | 0 recs
Why don't you make me?

In fact, I'm still waiting for you to point out where in the rules it states that I have to march in lockstep with Jerome to be able to post at this site.

Please, don't hurry on my account. I know there are plenty of things to be concerned about.

by Massadonious 2008-06-16 08:50AM | 0 recs
No rules require maturity and manners.
I just prefer it.
And, "Why don't you make me?"
Kind of proves my point.  Aty least you didn't tell me I'm not the boss of you.
by kosnomore 2008-06-16 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: The door swings both ways.

I already left and came back thinking that since the primary was over Democrats would come together to defeat the Republicans. I guess I was mistaken.

by conspiracy 2008-06-16 09:15AM | 0 recs
Obama's not doing better...

...because Hillary and some of her most ardent and virulent supports validated rightwing GOP attacks and smears against Obama that he has yet to completely overcome.

This was the principle objection MANY Obama supports had with Hillary and her supporters. We were not anti-Hillary, per se. We rejected and denounced the tactics she was using.

And, while I give you all credit for finding the silver libing to her attacks to spin away what she did (i.e. it made Obama a stronger candidate and innoculated him somewhat), that still doesn't excuse the attacks.

Imagine is Mitt Romney and the rest of the GOP field (Ron Paul is a special case) had attacked the crap out of McCain in TV ads and on the stump for being a war monger, wrong on the Iraq war, and too close to George W. Bush.

WE DEMOCRATS would have whooped and hollared about it with joy! A major Republican candidate was attacking McCain on the war and validating OUR attacks on McCain for the Fall.

Instead, Romeny attacked McCain from the right! By attacking his stances on taxes or immigration. Things that resonated with GOP prinmary voters, but actually helped McCain in the Fall.

The only major attack on Obama by Clinton that really fell into that category were her attacks on Obama over his health care plan.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2008-06-16 08:48AM | 0 recs
I love this new meme.
If you said Obama would have difficulty winning because of his positions and attitude and history, you were being obtuse.
Now, if he does have difficulty, it's the fault of those who pointed it out in the first place (with no acknowledgement that they were, like, you know, CORRECT).
Isn't it way too early to be placing blame?
Not a sign of confidence IMHO.
by kosnomore 2008-06-16 09:01AM | 0 recs
I love your spin.

The point is that we all knew the GOP would attack Obama over thgis stuff. But now the GOP just has to roll TV ads with video of HILLARY saying it instead of some annoiuncer or the candidate himself.

That's the point.

And that's ultimately why Hillary won't be on the ticket. In fact, as a staunch Hillary supporter you should be ANGRY at her for pushing this crap because it makes it almost impossible for Obama to put her on the ticket now. If he does, these attacks will be thrown back in Obama and Hillary's faces every day during the general election.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2008-06-16 10:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's not doing better...

I hear you.  But I also ask you to put the shoe on the other foot.

Many Clinton supporters felt like she was defeated because Obama chose to adopt the right wing narrative and use it against her. His message about her was basically, "she'll say or do anything to win.."  He even ran a radio ad about it in South Carolina -- the only explicit negative attack on character from either side during the entire campaign.

Had Hillary won, Obama's attacks would have weakened her significantly by, to use your language, validating the right wing spin about her.

Further, when someone uses the language of the right and especially uses right-wing generated character attacks to defeat someone you admire, it tends to leave you unenthusiastic for the victor, just as I gather you'd have had a hard time being enthusiastic for Hillary had she won.

Ultimately, Hesiod, I think the best thing you can do to promote unity is to stop slamming Hillary. Stop accusing her of hurting Obama, of doing this or that in her campaign.  It really only pisses her supporters off further and does nothing to help Obama.

Even if you believe it all, it really doesn't do any good to post it, especially in response to an embittered Hillary supporter who does support Obama but hasn't been able to muster the hoped-for enthusiasm yet.

Sure, continuing to rip Hillary or write (as if fact) how awful you think her campaign was will make you feel better, but it's not going to help elect Obama or encourage enthusiasm from those who will vote for Obama but can't quite convince themselves yet that he's the second coming of FDR.

by dcg2 2008-06-16 09:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's not doing better...

I hear you as well.

But, the "she'll say anything to win" attack from Obama only came after Hillary started throwing the "kitchen sink" at him.

Obama wanted to stay away from that stuff as much as possible precisely because he was ahead and wanted to be able to unite the party in the Fall.

After Pennsylvania (the only place he really used that line of attack) he pretty much stopped doing it.

by Hesiod Theogeny 2008-06-16 10:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's not doing better...


The say or do anything to win ad ran in South Carolina. It was a key part of Obama's narrative all along and they were using it (not in paid communication, but certainly through surrogates as early as October or November to discredit her.).

It's simply false to say they didn't adopt that narrative until PA because they were on the air with it right after New Hampshire and that was long before what you call the kitchen sink was thrown at him (e.g. before Rev. Wright, before "denounce and reject", before 3AM ad, etc.).  She had really only been hitting him on health care at that point and Bill had hit him on it being a fairly tale that he would have voted differently from on the Iraq War because he once admitted he wasn't sure he would have voted no on AUMF (an attack unfairly used to brand Bill as a race-baiter).

by dcg2 2008-06-17 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever doesn't kill you m

I don't have a problem with Clinton supporters who are ho hum about Obama.  That's fine, they don't have the faith in the man that supporters like myself do... I'm ok with that as I felt the same way about Hilary Clinton... I do think they will be proven wrong during Obama's first year, but that is just my opinion of course.  

All I ask of Clinton supporters is the minimum... vote for the Democrat.  Now, I'd RATHER see people work to get him elected, but I can understand not having that desire with someone they feel lukewarm about... it probably would have been what I did IF Clinton had won... voted for her, but not volunteer... instead volunteer for local house races.  I would like to see those who are JUST going to vote for Obama, like yourself Jerome, work as they would have for Hillary on the House and Senate races... something I would assume Jerome is going to do.

So that's my two cents... I can understand the ho hum attitude of Some toward Obama, but I'm ok with it as long as those same peopel vote for the candidate and don't try to actively undermind him... THAT is the unforgivable thing to me (and FTR, I do not think nor am accusing Jerome of that... he is showing ho-hum support for the nominee... Fine with me).

by yitbos96bb 2008-06-16 08:52AM | 0 recs
Traffic decrease

I agree, traffic at MyDD has drastically dropped as evidenced by the small amount of new diaries. However, traffic at DailyKos has NOT dropped one bit.....New diaries are constantly being posted, not only about Obama/Mccain, but on many other issues of importance to Progressive Democrats

by feliks 2008-06-16 08:57AM | 0 recs

for those that are still stuck in despising her... whatever.

And for those still stuck on worshipping a political ghost and fabricating the myth of a stolen nomination?

by Freespeechzone 2008-06-16 08:58AM | 0 recs
Re: re.

I thought the comment itself is evidence of the frustration Jerome is going through. Its troublesome seeing how detached he is from his old way of approaching races.

Jerome is proving to be a troll on his own site.

by alex100 2008-06-16 09:20AM | 0 recs
Re: re.

If he would just come with a rationale for the Obamaphobia.

(He shouldn't be surprised if he finds himself quoted on McCrank's website.)

by Freespeechzone 2008-06-16 09:24AM | 0 recs
Wake Up Jerome... It's beginning NOW!

Real talk... I'm not one for the "wait and see" attitude on (or right before) Election Day... that type of passive disengagement in the process is a straight up short-sighted strategy at best, and at worst contributing to how the right kicked ass in previous election cycles and left them setting the agenda and creating a power infrastructure for the next generation (being out mobilized on ED). Sitting on the sidelines and waiting around for a specific candiates' campaign to do the work we ought to be doing is yielding ground to the conservative movement (who is hyper-extending their efforts to reach out to Clinton voters).

I am about making sure the progressive agenda moves forward, and frankly this opportunity is too important to see what happens on election day. We need to get to work and have real talk about where our candidates stand in relation to our issues--organize and mobilize pre-election day, election day, and post-election day to hold whoever wins accountable. Build the site to build relationships for voters--mobilization, outreach and voter relationship building is months of hardcore work, especially at the grassroots level. So if you're waiting till the conventions to start waking up... then hitting the snooze till after Labor Day when election coverage picks ups, or until election day then you've missed out on an opportunity to create and cultivate the coalitions, alliances, and relationships that need to built beyond ED.

So consider this my personal invitation to everyone who is playing "wait and see" to wake up!  

by cornbreadprogressive 2008-06-16 09:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Wake Up Jerome... It's beginning NOW!

Who would have imagined that when the gate was crashed he'd be moping on the sideline?

by Freespeechzone 2008-06-16 09:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Wake Up Jerome... It's beginning NOW!

Well when gate crashers create their own gated communities, you can lose touch with why you are part of the movement to begin with...

by cornbreadprogressive 2008-06-16 09:58AM | 0 recs
November: Things to do

Actually, I've just come out of my foxhole! An Edwards supporter who voted for Obama after John got out, the vitriol in the primary season made me shut off the news and the blogs for 3 months - the longest stretch since the stolen election in y2k! I knew I'd have to support one of these 2 in Nov. and I didn't want to let the negativity suck the wind out of my sails.

Obama's "reach across the aisle" line early in the campaign turned me off (The R's deserve to sit on the bench for a season, you think?), and I don't like his health plan. Having said that, I've come to believe he really will cut out many of the real culprits of our current dilemma: the powerful and wealthy interests that inserted Bush into the WH. They, even more than their Rthugs, deserve to watch while the next administration sets policy.

Every politician has a base of support, yet I feel Obama has enough coming from the grassroots that he will be less beholden than is typical for a Dem Pres.
I wish Edwards' fight were still in the game, and I appreciated Clinton's fight as well. I'm not ready to make nice (with the right) as Obama seems to have indicated is his plan, but if I have to suffer a policy, I'd rather suffer that than anything the R's would cook up. Just gimme Truth and Reconciliation if these criminals walk.

I just want to offer to those who are finding it hard to embrace a recent adversary as your new champion: we've got a fight coming, and it matters. It matters the way all the crimes of the past 7 years matter, in reverse. It's a good thing we're fighting for, and a bad thing we're fighting against. You don't have to kiss him.

by Josalo 2008-06-16 09:07AM | 0 recs
As long as you vote democratic

I don't care whether you are ho hum or not.

And thanks again for that strong endorsement of our democratic nominee. It does wonders for morale.

by missliberties 2008-06-16 09:07AM | 0 recs
He has chosen irrelevance.

He could be a strong voice for good, but is just a weak and ineffective voice for harm.

by Freespeechzone 2008-06-16 09:12AM | 0 recs
It's only been a week

where is Clinton?

And I agree this constant sniping about Obama, and about how unfair the media is is getting OLD!

I mean the media helped this administration sell the fricking war? Why act surprised that the media is being blamed for Clinton's loss.

It is a sign of a lack of personal responsibility.

by missliberties 2008-06-16 10:04AM | 0 recs
Some points

Obama started faltering? What are you talking about? The media attacked Obama relentlessly for months and the only significant thing that happened is that he dropped a little in the polls. In the primaries, he still pretty much delivered every single time.

The only place were he did badly was South Dakota.

Also, regarding Obama's performance against McCain in polls at the moment. You seem to be forgetting to take some things into account. Like how the US voted for Bush twice, so it's a little retarded to suddenly expect Obama to be 20 points ahead of McCain. McCain also still has his maverick image which a lot of Americans buy into. There are a bunch of Clinton supporters that are still mourning over their candidate's defeat. Expect them to slowly come over to the good side. And lastly, the media is doing all it can to keep the election close. Their ratings depend on it.

When you ignore the polls and take into account the things that actually matter, you'd notice that Obama is excellently positioned to give McCain the beating of a lifetime.

by EnzoValenzetti 2008-06-16 09:07AM | 0 recs
Bravo Jerome

for your honesty and thank you for the article.

Hope you enjoyed Malaysia as much as I did when I was there many years ago.

by nikkid 2008-06-16 09:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Bravo Jerome

I agree Nikid,  his pledge to vote for Obama was earth shattering.

I would think Malaysia is off topic since 99.99999 of Americans will never travel there, and was well covered in his other diary.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-16 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Bravo Jerome

Oh I disagree- I love hearing stories from overseas.  Certainly Jerome spoke of politics to someone, and if not, he certainly heard about local politics.  I'm geeky about this stuff, but local politcs around the world always fascinates me.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-16 07:43PM | 0 recs
Thanks for that over all morale

boost for the Democratic nominee!

Great stuff.

by missliberties 2008-06-16 09:09AM | 0 recs
EXCELLENT diary, Jerome. And....

I'll check back in, in a few more days to see if anything exciting is happening.

by thebluenote 2008-06-16 09:14AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever"


"if she turned it down and he lost this fall, she would be blamed even more loudly. . ."

If she does go on ticket and he loses, she'll be blamed too. Like Obama said in his recent Fathers Day speech, men have to take responsibility.  That includes Obama. He's the guy, and its his to win or lose; stop this blaming Hillary for his loss before he's even lost it.

Personally, I would rather she give her time and  energy to her constituents back in NY over the VP thing.  No second fiddle.  Though I agree with you that this election has become awfully boring with her out of the picture.

by moevaughn 2008-06-16 09:14AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever"

Presidential election year summers are always like this. It would be the same if Hillary had prevailed in the primary. There is no real news except for VP chatter. Not surprising really since there are now no votes to be counted for another five months instead of every couple of Tuesdays for the past five.

by conspiracy 2008-06-16 09:22AM | 0 recs

So much for crashing the gate.

If you're bored about the opportunity we have this fall then what is your purpose?

I totally understand not being 100% excited about a candidate. I know I would be very ho-hum if Hillary was the nominee. But, we have a chance to put a Democrat in the White House, a chance to get a large majority in the Senate and House and you're bored?

by PSUdan 2008-06-16 09:17AM | 0 recs
Obama bounce...

The expected Obama bounce unfortunately seems to have flattened out or not materialized.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/25 6100

As Jerome notes it is a fact that after February Obama juggernaut trajectory plateaued out considerably with respect to HRC. His loss in South Dakota was stunning. We are all hoping that he gets back his mojo that seemed to have been jaded a bit from a bruising primary.

by louisprandtl 2008-06-16 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama bounce...

Well it happens to be back up to 4 points today.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/election2008. aspx

I just think there is too much noise in these one day samples to take very much from the tracking polls. The most we can say is there are lots of people who at least claim to be undecided right now.

by conspiracy 2008-06-16 09:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama bounce...

Yea, seems obvious to those that can see. It may take Clinton to get it back for him.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-06-16 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama bounce...

People can read an awful lot into statistical noise.

by fwiffo3 2008-06-16 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama bounce...

True, having Clinton would definitely unite the party supporters behind Obama. Also it would have an immediate effect of Democratic party unity. But then history of the party is littered with examples of self destruction by disunity.

by louisprandtl 2008-06-16 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama bounce...

That seems like a stretch, doesn't it?  And a telling one at that.

Clinton as VP will not

-Alter Obama's policies
-Change sexism in the media
-Reduce her campaign debts

All it does is "extend an olive branch".  Is that what unity is about?  I kind of thought the Obama holdouts were after something a bit more substantial- a better health care plan for example.  Not a Clinton "feel-better" boost.

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-16 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger

That was a great article. Thanks for providing the link. Her quotes about the Democratic coalition provide an excellent history lesson for anyone who wants to see a Democrat in the White House.

by LakersFan 2008-06-16 09:27AM | 0 recs
Whinge whinge whinge

You know if the level of intensity that marked the Dem primaries was somehow maintained for the next five months I think I would off myself with the sheer level of stupidity and bile produced.

I honestly don't see why anyone would want what we just went through to be the normative state.

Both Obama and Clinton need some time off, or at some time at a lower level of stress. Criticizing our presumptive nominee because of that is pretty shallow criticism...

And drops in blog readership? What the hell did you expect? The golden age of blogging (which is just a bunch of keyboard jockeys yammering at each other) to keep building to some sort of orgasmic troll war to end all troll wars?
As someone else already noted, MyDD needs to get out of Primary mode or t will just molder away. As much as many people here dislike Dkos at least there is some variety on the rec list there.

by notedgeways 2008-06-16 09:38AM | 0 recs
Jerome, Jerome, JEROME! PLEASE!

Make this your last comment about the primary. I know how much you invested in the compaign. It's not easy. I think we all went through the devastation of Kerry's loss. We do feel your pain. I have learned that "I told you so" does not help and certainly is not a way to move forward. We now have to do more than just relunctantly Vote! Pull yourself together man. You can do it. I do it by mumbling the words "Supreme Court" over and over.

by eddieb 2008-06-16 09:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Jerome, Jerome, JEROME! PLEASE!

Nothing invested at all. To bad you can't tell.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-06-16 09:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Jerome, Jerome, JEROME! PLEASE!

You invested your credibility.

Too bad you can't tell.

by PSUdan 2008-06-16 11:48AM | 0 recs

And the phrase "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is still a stupid phrase on so many levels, the pseudo masochism and just blatant inaccuracy of it has bugged me for quite a long time.

by notedgeways 2008-06-16 09:41AM | 0 recs
You took the thoughts right out of my head.  The race is now SNOOZEVILLE!
Hillary has become "larger than life" in her post- primary week/s- and deservedly so.  I think picking her as VP will shore up Dem voters and bring Obama at least 5% in the polls.  Let's hope he does it!
by easyE 2008-06-16 09:47AM | 0 recs
you're wrong

The NBC/WSJ poll indicated that brining in Clinton wouldn't anything. A small increase was measured, but it was within the margin of error.

by EnzoValenzetti 2008-06-16 10:03AM | 0 recs
Now is the time

Jerome, you and Hillary and the rest of her supporters will in the end be defined by your actions or lack of action.  Go ahead and sit around until September, but keep in mind that we are progressives and as such should be committed to moving our ideals forward.  We are not followers of an individual, but profess a belief in what the role of government is and what it can do to improve the lives of our fellow citizens. The differences in Obama and Clinton on these issues are few and we all know where McCain stands (well sort of, depending on which flip-flop he is spouting off today).

Obama is now our standard-bearer and getting him elected should be what we are about.  It would be the same if Clinton had gotten the nomination.
Pulling the lever for Obama is the most many will be able to do.  But someone with a well-read blog can do more.

by Do Something 2008-06-16 09:50AM | 0 recs

Stage 4. Depression.

by notedgeways 2008-06-16 09:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Whatever doesn't kill you

Very interesting article. It does make me wonder if Hillary, her coalition and Democrats generally would be better served if she built on what she won in the  primary rather than taking a VP slot. She built a coalition of the people who are invisible in current politics and media, with women at the core and then vast working class who she was ultimately best able to speak for. The people whose issues and concerns are still invisible to many posters on this blog. If she is not running for office she can represent and advocate for them the way Gore advocates for addressing global climate change, without some of the perception of self interest.

When I consider the political environment I have a hard time believing that Obama can lose this election. Most measures -- money, Dem id, economy -- suggest that he should win this walking away. But there are enough signs of weakness that I can see him losing, and since even as VP candidate Hillary can't fix those for him she and her coalition might be better off keeping their distance.

by souvarine 2008-06-16 10:19AM | 0 recs
What the Clintonista's don't seem to understand

- since we're giving out lessons on what it's like to be on the other team - is that those of us who heart Obama don't think he's faltered in the least.  The same way those who are biased for Clinton view times in the last few months as her moments of glory, while we view them as her downfall.

Still trying to pass opinion off as truth, i see.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-16 10:24AM | 0 recs
Re:A great article.

Very interesting; it articulates the reasons that I admired Senator Clinton more and more as the primary dragged on.

Now that I know what Penn and Co. were thinking, I understand why they chose to run a cautious, conservative campaign, although it was obviously a miscalculation.  

Glad you posted this.    

by half nelson 2008-06-16 10:30AM | 0 recs
It's the same as it would have been for Clinton

If she had won the nomination, this last month would have gone exactly the same.  Many people were feeling the fatigue of the primary and just wanted it to be over.  Those people are now taking a hiatus from politics.

That your egoism is so strong,  that you can still at this point make everything about your candidate (who lost btw), is actually as tremendous as it is lame.

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-16 10:31AM | 0 recs
Re: "Whatever "

"and for those that are still stuck in despising her... whatever."

Where are these supposed people who are "still stuck in despising her"? I never despised Hillary Clinton, the person. I did, however, despise her raising the specter of a terrorist attack as a rationale for voting for Hillary Clinton. I also despised the "as far as I know" non-denial of Obama/Muslim rumors. Then there was the whole "Jesse Jackson won SC" nonsense.

But I digress. If anything, this site was a bastion of Obama bashing, no doubt as a result of the example set by Jerome. While there was certainly some well thought out and deserved scrutiny of Obama's positions, there was also just as much (if not more) attacks based on hearsay, rumors and outright lies (e.g. anything written by SusanHu or Alegre). None of which was policed in any serious manner.

So it seems just a little bit ironic for Mr. Armstrong to come back after a long hiatus, still having yet to express any modicum of real support for Barack Obama, and drag out the "people who despise Hillary" canard - as if that was what has been going on at MyDD for the past 5 months.

by John in Chicago 2008-06-16 11:00AM | 0 recs

Yup, it's just us Obama supporters stuck rehashing old primary wars, sure...

by Skaje 2008-06-16 11:46AM | 0 recs


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