Never Gonna Give Him Up?

Over the past few months, and even more so over the past few weeks, the establishment media has obsessed and obsessed and obsessed about comments made by Jeremiah Wright and the potentially deleterious affects those comments could have upon the presidential ambitions of Barack Obama. Nary an interview went by with the Illinois Senator where he was not asked about his former pastor, and a significant portion (roughly the first third) of the most recent debate centered on Wright and Wright-like insinuations. Wright even received more coverage in the elite media last week than did Hillary Clinton.

But for as much talk and print was dedicated to Wright, his impact on actual elections has been remarkably minimal. Certainly there is a decent proportion of voters telling pollsters that they care about Wright when prompted by the media (though whether they would name Wright as a major concern of theirs in more-properly worded open ended question that did not beg a certain result remains unclear). (It's also unclear as to which voters really care about Wright -- if it's Democratic voters or Independents who would otherwise vote or consider voting for the Democratic nominee, or if it is predominantly the conservative Republican base that would vote for the GOP nominee no matter what.) Yet proof that Wright had a long-lasting negative affect upon Obama, or the Democratic Party for that matter, is decidedly absent in actual election results.

In the run up to the special congressional election in a very Republican-leaning district in Louisiana over the weekend, Republicans and groups supporting the GOP expended hundreds of thousands of dollars -- perhaps even over a million -- trying to tie Democratic nominee Don Cazayoux to Obama (as well as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi) in the hopes of painting Cazayoux as a wrong fit for the district. Although the ads in Louisiana did not feature Wright specifically, the implication was clear, particularly given the fact that Wright dominated the news coverage that week (as noted above). Despite these attacks (or perhaps in spite of them) and despite the fact that the district, which tended to lean about 7 points more Republican than the nation as a whole in presidential elections, had been in Republican hands for more than three decades, Cazayoux nevertheless won by a healthy 3-point margin.

Leading into yesterday's primary elections in Indiana and North Carolina there was likewise a significant amount of talk and speculation about whether Wright would sink Obama. Indeed, when prompted by exit pollsters as to whether Wright impacted their vote, about half of Indiana voters yesterday said yes (although, again, I would caution against reading too much into a question that prompts a response like this and would instead wait to see if Wright showed up significantly in an open-ended question in which respondents actually named Wright over other issues like the economy or Iraq before biting too hard). Nevertheless, Obama exceeded expectations in both North Carolina and Indiana, winning the first by a solid margin (by more popular votes than Clinton won Pennsylvania, for instance) and only narrowly losing in the second (by just under two percentage points).

If weeks upon weeks upon weeks of Obama being pummeled in the media couldn't stop him from doing what he needed to last night, and if in the wake of the coverage Obama still isn't a drag on Democratic candidates down ballot -- even in some of the redder areas of the country -- isn't it about time for the media to stop speculating about Obama's potential Wright problem, and in fact just stop talking about Wright altogether? Haven't voters made it clear enough that they care about gas prices and the economy and Iraq -- and George W. Bush, for that matter -- more than they do about a presidential candidate's former pastor? Or are those in the elite press never gonna give him up?

Tags: Barack Obama, Jeremiah Wright, Media, meta (all tags)

Comments

104 Comments

Re: No More Wright

Todd Beeton just getting props on MSNBC for his work in the wee hours of the morning. Sorry for the interruption here. Please continue with your regularly scheduled diary.

by mikeplugh 2008-05-07 10:26AM | 0 recs
Hillary Bloggers

So the Hillary bloggers ranting about Wright had no affect on voters? Maybe if they start ranting about McCain they can get some positive results for our country. Go at him gals!

by ImpeachBushCheney 2008-05-07 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

Strange post, Jonathan. To what do you attribute Hillary's surge among white working class voters? According to Pew, it went from 10 when the Wright story broke to 40 today. Why? All because of Hillary's populist turn? Because of Bittergate.

In any case, this was always an issue that promised to be more of a factor in a general.

To say 'he won last night, therefore Wright didn't hurt him' is a logical fallacy.

Fine if you want lament the media's obsession with Wright, but why deny the obvious, that Obama was damaged by Wright?

by david mizner 2008-05-07 10:30AM | 0 recs
And yet,

her negatives are still far higher than his.

by Shem 2008-05-07 10:36AM | 0 recs
Re: And yet,

Sure. To say he has electability problems is not to dismiss hers.

by david mizner 2008-05-07 10:43AM | 0 recs
Hillary has off-the-chart high negatives in PA

and she won big. She won in IN despite being heavily out spent there and despite the fact that its in his backyard. NC has 33% blacks so its no surprise he did well there.

The bottom line is that Clinton does materially better versus McCain in the electoral college.

We are running the only guy the Republicans could beat: a liberal elitist who thinks working-class whites are bitter and cling to their guns and religion. What more ammo does McCain need? None.

by mmorang 2008-05-07 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary has off-the-chart high negatives in PA

You're referencing the straw man that the GOP trots out every four years to apply to the Democratic candidate. You ever hear of the law of diminishing returns?

by wengler 2008-05-07 01:32PM | 0 recs
They trot out the same thing and keep winning

only Clinton has beaten them (twice). He was seen as a moderate.

There is no reason to believe that the Republicans won't win AGAIN doing what consistently works for them.

Twenty years in a church and he JUST found out last weeks that his spiritual mentor was full of hate? Please.

Bill Ayers won't apoligize for setting off bombs and allows Obama to use his house for the kick off to his first campaign. Old news? Not to general election voters.

You think the Republican attacks are ridiculous and shouldn't work? Ok, fine, except the reality is it DOES work and HAS worked and will continue to work so recognize reality and deal with it instead of running candidates we know are going to lose from the get go.

by mmorang 2008-05-07 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

LA-06 was a interparty rather than intraparty election. While it was a special election and thus susceptible to interesting results coming from relatively low turnout, and while Jenkins wasn't a great candidate, this was nevertheless an interparty election in a conservative part of a conservative state -- a state, in fact, that is one of the few that appears to be trending towards rather than away from the GOP. And Cazayoux won there despite the very overt attempt to make the election a referendum on Obama (and Pelosi).

by Jonathan Singer 2008-05-07 10:38AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

I can understand why Obama supporters didn't want to acknowledge Obama's problems with the white working class when Hillary was still alive and kicking, but now that she's all but cooked, we should admit that he has a problem and work to overcome it.

by david mizner 2008-05-07 10:45AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

A problem with the white working class? MCCAIN has a problem with the white working class. Just because Obama couldn't win them against Clinton, doesn't mean he wont win them against McCain in most states:

If this is true, then why is Obama polling ahead of McCain in....

Colorado
Indiana (According to the most recent poll)
Iowa (consistantly)
Nevada
Oregon
Washington (both of the 2 above are scarlet, and Clinton keeps both close/loses them)
Pennsylvania
Wisconsin (clinton loses here)
Michigan (clinton loses here too)

I mean, dude, this is really much adieu about nothing.

by beholderseye 2008-05-07 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

Pure denial.

According to Q, McCain is beating Obama among the white working class in Florida, Penn, and Ohio. Indeed, that's why he losing Florida and Ohio to McSame.

It's not a lethal problem but it is a problem.

He's polling ahead of McCain in those states because he does well among independents, and because it's a very favorable environment for Dems.

by david mizner 2008-05-07 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

He is losing Ohio and Florida to McCain because of the large elderly population in those states.  

by belicheat 2008-05-07 11:47AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

Does it not occur to you that Cazayoux's connection to Obama, not to mention Wright, was tenuous at best? He isn't even an Obama supporter, so far as I have been able to determine -- and Obama is not yet the Democratic nominee, so that Cazayoux is not obliged to support him.

Of course, Obama himself is tied to Wright a million which ways -- and that's always been a problem mostly for the general. Once he becomes the official nominee, that's when Democrats running for Congress start to get tied both to Obama and his policies.

by frankly0 2008-05-07 10:52AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

You are correct! Once they tie themselves to Obama's coattails they will sail right into office!

by eddieb 2008-05-07 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

The point is, once Obama becomes the nominee, then any Democrat running for Congress becomes part of a larger package of what the new government might be like if Obama wins, and Democrats win significant majorities in Congress.

That's when the issue of the agenda represented by Obama starts to become a genuine issue in whether you should vote for a Democratic Congressperson.

The sad truth is, Obama is only going to be a drag on people running for Congress from reddish, or likely even purplish, states.

Perhaps, because the Democratic brand by itself is so strong -- or, more precisely, because the Republican brand is so pathetically weak -- Democrats running for Congress will do well. But it won't be because of Obama, it will be despite him. And that is true for Obama himself: he will win, if he does, because the Republican brand is in the toilet, and not because of anything he brings to the table. Indeed, if he does so, it will be even more despite his efforts, because of what he has done to tear down the Democratic brand by being as disparaging as possible of the last Democratic President. How will the man argue that his Democratic economic policies are, objectively, good policies, if the last Democratic President, by Obama's light, performed so poorly on that score? How can he claim that he's going to bring back the prosperity of the previous Democratic adminstration when he's gone so far out of his way to dump on the success of that administration?

by frankly0 2008-05-07 11:19AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

The previous Democratic administration sucked. And as for this...
"The sad truth is, Obama is only going to be a drag on people running for Congress from reddish, or likely even purplish, states."

It is widely believed that the exact opposite is true. Polling backs this up.

by LandStander 2008-05-07 11:22AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

The previous Democratic administration sucked.

Which is what Obama has argued.

But what policies make his administration any better, from an economic point of view? Why, absolutely nothing; his policies are nothing but standard Democratic boilerplate, at best. He has no story there that makes any particle of sense.

So he's trashed the one thing he could point to as a proof of the success of his policies.

We are supposed, instead, I guess, to believe in the magic powers of Unity, which can bring us not only societal harmony, but, apparently, riches galore.

by frankly0 2008-05-07 11:29AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

What's this 10 and 40? Hillary's support from white working class voters was at 10%? When?

Obama's numbers with white working class voters have improved dramatically since Ohio.

by Mandoliniment 2008-05-07 11:38AM | 0 recs
Re: No More Wright

here ya go. Pew Poll:

Her lead among whites who did not attend college has increased from 10 points in March to 40 points today, and her lead among white Democrats who earn less than $50,000 a year has increased from two points to 24 points. Clinton has taken a 10-point lead among white male Democratic voters - erasing Obama's advantage with the group - and she now runs better among Democrats under age 50 than she had previously.

No, his numbers haven't improved with wwc since Ohio. He just hasn't done as poorly as he did in Ohio in some states. His national numbers in this demo have been consistently trending down.

http://people-press.org/reports/display. php3?ReportID=414

by david mizner 2008-05-07 01:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

Obama is teflon.

by Bobby Obama 2008-05-07 10:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

Kryptonite.

by Tatan 2008-05-07 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?
Does that make McCain Superman? That would be memorable, McCain in a Superman suit.
by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-05-07 10:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

My eyes are burning! Burning!

by eddieb 2008-05-07 10:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

by juliewolf 2008-05-07 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

by soyousay 2008-05-07 11:17AM | 0 recs
They can't

They're personally freaked out by the loud black preacher. Though the loud white preachers (Yes Tim. There is video of Hagee & Parsley) are getting a pass and the quiet actually scary ones (I'm looking at you Doug Coe) barely get mentioned (and that's exactly how he likes it).  

by RLMcCauley 2008-05-07 10:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

I think the media got plunked last night... the Wright story is officially over...  Oh, Fox News will bring it up all the time, but even Newt Gingirch said that it's not going to work.

As for downticket races, Obama is much more than "not a drag", he's a boost, which is why he'll be the nominee and bring 70 new house and Senate seats with him!

by LordMike 2008-05-07 10:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

Never gonna give Wright up /
Gotta get Obama down /
Gotta roll bytes of sound /
So he won't win

Never gonna question why /
Oil prices are so high /
Even if we tell some lies /
Up next: flag pins.

by jaiwithani 2008-05-07 10:37AM | 0 recs
Wow, who do you get cable from?

Comcast doesn't carry stations from the dimension you wrote your first paragraph about.  In this dimension, there have been a couple of 3-day publicity blips followed by iron doors clanging down on a forbidden subject.  

There's still nothing even close to an explanation from the Obama camp of his tangled answers regarding what he heard and when, and what has been stated by the candidate frankly cannot all be true--and that's only partially because he contradicts himself.

by Trickster 2008-05-07 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Wow, who do you get cable from?

Lets see now how long before we will start talking about Hillary having Vince foster bumped off! You know she has never actually answered all the Faux questions put to her! Don't you get it! This is what Rethugs get us to fight over NON-issues. Wright is a RED Herring so is the Flag pin stuff its all deliberately created to get voters minds off topic.

by eddieb 2008-05-07 10:54AM | 0 recs
what he needed to do?

You mean only get 30 some percent of the white vote in the last 4 contests?  Um, yeah.  Get real- we're in trouble.  We need something more than just "attack the media for bringing up Rev. Wright".  I get where you're coming from - but Obama did NOTHING last night that gives me an ounce of confidence.  Not one single ounce. Did he push Clinton further out?  Yes, because he won unanimous AA vote in NC and IN.  McCain win's both of those states anyway.  The states WE need in the general?  Obama is in trouble.

Nice try though. :)

by easyE 2008-05-07 10:40AM | 0 recs
Just because Clinton carries whites better than

Obama does, does not mean that Obama won't carry whites better than McCain does.

You're pushing a fallacy of logic here.

Both Obama AND Clinton can count on white voters in many democratic stronghold states.

Just look at the many polls out that have both candidates whooping McCain.

by beholderseye 2008-05-07 10:44AM | 0 recs
Re: what he needed to do?

What you said.

by jarhead5536 2008-05-07 12:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

Folks in their coastal liberal enclaves can tell themselves that Wright is over and Dems don't care.  Here in scarlet red America, Wright is HUGE.  Republican friends and relatives were actually considering Obama until this popped up.  This is not over, and the Republicans are salivating over the prospect of talking about this all autumn long.  The prospect of running against Hillary didn't get people around here as excited as this.

by jarhead5536 2008-05-07 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

If this is true, then why is Obama polling ahead of McCain in....

Colorado
Indiana (According to the most recent poll)
Iowa (consistantly)
Nevada
Oregon
Washington (both of the 2 above are scarlet, and Clinton keeps both close/loses them)
Pennsylvania
Wisconsin (clinton loses here)
Michigan (clinton loses here too)

I mean, dude, this is really much adieu about nothing.

by beholderseye 2008-05-07 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

Don't forget Texas.

by LandStander 2008-05-07 11:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

This has also been my experience from talking with non-liberals, even here in my latte-drinking coastal enclave.  I'm pretty sure we'd win a lot more elections if more people agreed with us on what's relevant and what isn't.

I hope we are not making a serious mistake.  Believe me, I would totally love it if Obama won in November and we could all say wow, the public is finally done with choosing Presidents based on that kind of bullshit.  That would be truly awesome.  I just find it hard to be confident that it will happen.

by Steve M 2008-05-07 10:52AM | 0 recs
Delusions

That's why all the Red State Democrats have been declaring for Obama.

15% of the voters who voted for Hillary said they would be voting for McCain in the general. Hillary won't get a majority of the white vote and without huge African American turnout she (nor any other Democrat) could even carry New York state much less a swing state.

She has not been subject to the kind of barrage as an actual candidate that Barack has withstood. She has her own Jeremiah Wright, his name is Bill CLinton. The sexual predator that she's been enabling and covering for for years. Not only will that become an issue but the pardoning of terrorist murderers, the Bosnia lies, all the old scandals plus a raft of new, real and fabricated would be playing 24/7 on cable. It's easier to demonize someone who people already find untrustworthy and unlikeable. It's laughable to think that Hillary is more electable then Obama.

If she was more electable she would be winning. Even after 2 weeks of slime from the media, the Clintons and the Republicans they have barely made a dent in Obama. Her negatives have gone up more then his. Even a large chunk of her own voters don't like her or trust her and the Republicans have not started on her yet.

by hankg 2008-05-07 10:59AM | 0 recs
See, if I were allowed to troll rate

I could do it for this:

She has her own Jeremiah Wright, his name is Bill CLinton. The sexual predator that she's been enabling and covering for for years.

by juliewolf 2008-05-07 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: See, if I were allowed to troll rate

What do you call men in positions of power who use that position to proposition powerless women in low level positions half their age on the job?

by hankg 2008-05-07 11:10AM | 0 recs
Re: See, if I were allowed to troll rate

"Mr. Trump."

by juliewolf 2008-05-07 11:20AM | 0 recs
Sure....

"isn't it about time for the media to stop speculating about Obama's potential Wright problem, and in fact just stop talking about Wright altogether?"

Sure, you can stop talking about the Rev.
As for me...I'm not voting because of the Rev.

by soyousay 2008-05-07 10:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

Sorry the REV isn't on the ballot!

by eddieb 2008-05-07 10:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

Obama who thinks Rev. Wright is a great leader is on the ballot and I don't vote for supporters of loones.

by soyousay 2008-05-07 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

So where does mcSame stand in you fantastical way of thinking. Do you prefer a President who is a Loon as opposed to one who has renounced and disowned a preacher who happens to meet your standard of being a Loon? So which one do you prefer. Are you one of those folks who always says in effect if I don't get my way I taking my Ball/vote and going home!!!! A little childish if you ask me.

by eddieb 2008-05-07 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

McCain supports BUSH! How much loonier does it have to get?

by CrazyDrumGuy 2008-05-07 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

The REV is a convenient excuse, too, when you can't think of a real reason to not want Obama elected.

Anyone saying Wright is what changed their mind about Obama didn't need Wright to change their mind about Obama. If a crazy acquaintance is all it takes to turn you off of a politician, you're never gonna get to vote for anyone.

by Lettuce 2008-05-07 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

Oh really? Do you know me? no you don't. You can think Rev. Wright is fine and a great leader; I don't. Your assuptions will get you or Obama nowhere.

by soyousay 2008-05-07 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

I didn't say anything about Wright being a fine and great anything.

My point is if Wright was all it took to turn you off of Obama, something else would have. Obama isn't Wright. Relationships matter, but either you take Obama at his word or you don't. I would hope people would be able to judge Wright over Wright, and Obama over the breadth of his relationships -- as you would, say, Hillary and her financially troubled acquaintances, or Bill and his tacky but meaningless dalliances.

Now some here and elsewhere mock Hillary's choice of staying with Bill despite his affairs. But they're Bill's affairs, and it's not fair to judge Hillary by them. And her decision to stay with him, or not, is hers and says nothing really about how she'd govern. Pop-psychology is a red herring.

That's the same with Wright, to me. Again, if Monica was enough to turn someone off Hillary, I wouldn't take them seriously either.

by Lettuce 2008-05-07 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

Oh there are plenty of reasons Obama is unsuitable completely unrelated to Wright - that's just the easiest attack to make, and believe me it will be made.

I understand that my girl is probably not gonna make it, I do.  I also understand that we are elevating a flawed candidate.  I will work for him and support him as much as I can, but I can't see him defeating McCain despite all our efforts.  If you can't see his weaknesses amongst certain demographics which together make a majority of people in America, it's because you are deliberately trying not to see them.

But hey, we're nominating Obama.  That's an end unto itself, is that what we're saying?  Great.  I'll do what I can, only because I keep repeating to myself over and over again:

Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supmree court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  Supreme Court.  

John McCain, or any Republican, is simply an unacceptable option.  I have to try and make lemonade out of this, everything depends on it.

by jarhead5536 2008-05-07 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

I don't think that's a bad thing.  The moron vote usually goes Republican, anyway, so best not to rely on it.

by juliewolf 2008-05-07 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

That's may be the case....President McCain.

by soyousay 2008-05-07 10:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

These day, McCain is having trouble remember whether his pants or underwear go on first. Not too worried about his chances in the election.

by Lettuce 2008-05-07 10:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

....and Obama doesn't know his pastor after 20 years.

by soyousay 2008-05-07 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

Obama knowing his pastor's views on race is not really that important a presidential skill. After all, what does Hillary's or McCain's pastors think? Who cares?

McCain knowing the difference between warring tribes shooting US Soldiers IS an important presidential skill.

But good zing anyway.

by Lettuce 2008-05-07 11:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

I care that Obama's great leader believes that the U.S. government puposely gave aids to AA.

by soyousay 2008-05-07 11:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

"Great Leader" sounds like some sort of cult terminology, which I am sure is exactly what you are going for.

by LandStander 2008-05-07 11:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

"cult terminology"

Heh, you could say that....I'm quoting Obama.

by soyousay 2008-05-07 11:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

Aaaaannnnnddddd... you've fully discredited yourself. Thanks for playing.

A lifetime of service to his nation and his community aren't wiped away by comments you or I don't like. Jefferson kept slaves. Johnson used the "N" word. Clinton diddled an employee....

by Lettuce 2008-05-07 11:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

I discredited myself by quoting Obama's praise for Rev. Wright?...Now that's ridiculous. The only one that is discredited is Obama.

by soyousay 2008-05-07 11:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

So you are not going to vote for the Democrat in November? May I remind you this is a site by and for supporters of the Democratic party?

by LandStander 2008-05-07 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

I'm not voting for president.

by soyousay 2008-05-07 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....
I'm not voting for president.
I'm not voting for president.
Right, because it hardly matters who's president, right?  It's not like the Supreme Court depends on it or anything.
by juliewolf 2008-05-07 01:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

Troll

by mattjfogarty 2008-05-07 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

Who? You?

by soyousay 2008-05-07 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Sure....

"Sure, you can stop talking about the Rev.
As for me...I'm not voting because of the Rev."

And, silly me, in November I'll just be superfluously wasting my vote on unimportant issues like whether or not we go to war with Iran and whether or not Scalia clones are appointed to replace Justices Stevens and Ginsburg.

Well, we've all got our priorities ...

by Collideascope 2008-05-07 11:00AM | 0 recs
blame

Go ahead and blame me if it makes you feel better, IMO, Obama is to blame; he should have been upfront about Rev. Wright in the first place.

Also, the Democratic party primary voting system is screwed up. Maybe real "change" will be made once members of the party open their eyes and see that this system isn't working. Dean and gang keep complaining that this needs to come to an end; Well maybe they should have thought about that earlier.

by soyousay 2008-05-07 11:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

I feel this Wright affair has far more importance the we realize. The Repigs have for years used these kinds of issues to effectively shield themselves from the issues. We all know what they did to Jimmy Carter, Dukakis, Clinton, Kerry. They succeded in enlisting the MSM in this process of making "The" issue Non-issues in the voters minds. Now I believe there is a clear change in the electorate. They no longer are falling for the GOP tactics of deversion. It became clear in 2006 and confirmed yesterday. The Rethuglicans believed they had once again created the "Red Herring" they could use against Obama. Well thanks to the Web, liberal Blogs and the voters they failed. In addition Obama/Clinton clearly won't let the Thugs and MSM flunkies get away with it this time around. This I feel is the death nell of the Rethuglican party and the extremists who have led them for the last 20 years.

by eddieb 2008-05-07 10:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

How about the extremist that led Obama for 20 years?

by soyousay 2008-05-07 11:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

I can't believe I just got rickroll'd on a political blog! Curse you Jonathan Singer!

I'm so mad about being duped I almost can't mention that I totally agree with you...

by argghh 2008-05-07 10:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

glad you're not the only one who caught it. Although I do remember that someone on the Breaking Blue also rickroll'd via sending a link to what seemed like an important story...

by KainIIIC 2008-05-07 11:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

My thoughts on Wright...

...are the same as my thoughts on Monica back in the 90s.

It's the easiest story to report. They don't have to look for anything that's not already out there. Heck, they don't even have to research Wright anymore. It's an easy story, an easy narrative, and, if you're a pundit or a cash-strapped cable net, it practically pushes itself.

Meanwhile, stories about Iraq, or health care, or forclosures are HARD and require REPORTING and research and leaving the office and spending money and you don't know if it'll get readers or ratings.

And to justify this professional malpractice (for isn't that, in a time of war and recession, what the focus on Wright really was?) the argument is "that's what people want" gets trotted out. "It wouldn't go on if it didn't get ratings..."

Of course the salacious gets ratings. The Nat'l Enquirer was once the most-read newspaper in the country. Didn't make it more meaningful in anyway, though.

So, until something comes along that's easier to write about, (maybe McCain will fall off a stage, or be accused of lying about his service in easy-to-republish press releases ) it's a lot easier to report the "controversy" than "news."

Which, by the way, is why creationists keep calling for "teaching the controversy" in regards to evolution. They can't make a case against evolution, that's hard. So push the controversy! That's easy.

by Lettuce 2008-05-07 10:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

I had lunch the other day with my boss, a moderate who literally waited until Election Day to decide to vote for Kerry over Bush.  He used to say very nice things about Obama, but now he's completely down on him because of Wright.  He says he's shocked not to be voting for a Democrat this year after how badly the Republicans have screwed things up, but he just can't believe we would nominate someone so unacceptable, with these potential ties to radicals.

I have another colleague, a very conservative, disaffected Republican who has been an Obama fan since day one.  When I caught up with him the other day, he said he still likes Obama but that he's very, very troubled by these developments, most notably the "bitter" comments which to him bring to mind everything he dislikes about elitist liberals.

Obviously people don't care about these things in the Democratic primary, at least not in numbers significant enough to make a difference.  Will general election voters care?  I suppose we'll find out.

The point I'm making, and this is always a difficult point to get across to my fellow liberals, is that there are actual people who care about this stuff, and I don't just mean Fox News-watching Republicans.  It's not just some kind of online faux outrage thing on the part of Hillary supporters.  These things are issues even though I totally agree they shouldn't be.

I am not saying anyone should change their support based on this.  That ship has sailed.  What I am saying is that we need to try a little harder to understand why this stuff is a problem, because it's very hard to be an effective advocate for Obama if your attitude is "come on, no one cares about that kind of crap."

by Steve M 2008-05-07 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

But how can you argue against "guilty by association?" If that's all it takes -- keep in mind, Wright may be "like a father" but it's not like he IS Wright's father, and we're willing to overlook actual parental malfeasance in the case of, say, Schwarzenegger.

Wright basically let people believe their worst fears about a charismatic black leader. I hate to say it, because it does presume a bit of prejudice. But when people were complaining about Obama being treated like a "Messiah" at the root of that was fear of a charismatic speaker who may say one thing, but really mean another.

Then Wright came along, and said all the things that people were suspecting a muslimy-named black man might really think. (And given the fixation still on Malcolm X or Louis Farrakhan, it's not a surprise why.) What these men share with Obama is public speaking ability and skin color. They don't share political views... public views.

But then Wright comes along! And all the worst fears are realized, were that Wright was actually Obama. He's not, but the attempts by Clinton and the GOP to conflate the two were successful for many people, I'd imagine.

But these people would have found something else to be suspicious of, i think. Gut reactions aside, rational thought about pastors and congregants usually lead not to humming "I am the church, you are the church, we are the church together" but rather "what an interesting sermon against abortion. Let's get our pro-choice family home before kickoff."

by Lettuce 2008-05-07 10:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

That is a very good question.  How can you argue against it?  It's an important question to answer because advocating for Obama will, in fact, require making that case to a lot of people.  I find it rather difficult to deal with, because it's not an entirely rational concern and thus you can't just write out a logical, rational argument to address it.

You seem to be suggesting that these things are just pretexts for people who don't really want to support Obama anyway.  We are obviously talking about anecdotal evidence here, but these are people I know and you're just not right in your assumption.  These are issues whether we like it or not.

I doubt there are many people out there who adored Obama one day, and the next day they heard about Wright and they couldn't stand him.  It's obviously always going to be a combination of things.  But people piece things together and they're like "hmm, Wright, Ayers, that stuff Michelle Obama said, yadda yadda" and it adds up to something they don't like.

Politics, it seems to me, is the art of figuring out how to address that sort of thing, not the art of bemoaning how wrong and irrational it is.  And certainly not dismissing these voters, because this crap is an issue with a lot of people who we really ought to be getting in November.

by Steve M 2008-05-07 11:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

But these same people did this to Clinton. He went to england during the war. He smoked pot. Hillary mocks housewives...

I think the response is: "Wright's comments were off the wall, but they are Wright's comments, not Obamas. If you're going to distill a vet like Wright down to a couple crazy comments (and if there was more like "Goddamn America" wouldn't we have heard it by now?) and if you're going to distill a presidential candidate down to who his pastor is, I doubt you'll find anyone worthy of the office.

Then note how Billy Graham (who Bush incorrectly credits with his conversion) was a raging anti-Semite.

by Lettuce 2008-05-07 11:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

I'd also add: And, given the war, the recession, the forclosures, the gas prices, the levees, the resurgent AQ, the inflation, the defeceit, the environment... if Pastor Wright trumps that for you, then those are your (hypothetical person) priorities and I don't share them in the least.

I think on the merits that will really have a bearing on yours or my life, there's no question who to support.

(And as for Michelle, any Hillary supporter that doesn't give the woman a little slack during her first year on the national stage, given all of Hillary's missteps throughout her First Lady tenure, well, again, no slack exists in that person to give.)

by Lettuce 2008-05-07 11:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

You make a valid point.  Understanding why people care about it and working to counter the negativity are important.

But it can be difficult to get past the smoke and see where the fire actually is.  Hopefully, the Obama campaign is doing just that.  We will indeed see.

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-05-07 11:01AM | 0 recs
I believe that...

Obama's dip in some HTH polls will vanish post NC, assuming the media narrative hasn't changed.

Polls have been very conflicting lately.  This past weekend I saw a poll saying 75% of people thought Wright damaged Obama's candidacy, but another poll said 2/3rds of people thought he had done enough to address Wright.

It all came into perspective for me when I saw a more recent poll.  Only 24% of people said Wright personally made a difference in their vote, but 44% of people said they knew someone who they thought it would matter to.

Obviously since individuals know more than one person, this isn't statistically impossible, but I think more than half of the damage Wright did in the polls to Obama among whites had more to do with electability - assuming others were going to care - than actual personal concerns.  This jibes with the number of people I've talked to anecdotally who say Wright is going to be his undoing, and when I ask why, they cannot explain.  

Ergo, I think once Obama gets a veneer of winner on him, half or more of the gap will vanish.  

by telephasic 2008-05-07 10:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

It's a great sign that the era of the top down, broadcast, Rove Morris (dare I say 'elitist'?) approach to political campaigning is coming to an end.

I'm watching MADMEN on British TV, and it's clear that all the Madison Avenue demographic orientated PR  version of politics was nascent then.

Nearly 50 years later, voters are sceptical of the claims of MSM 'authority', and fortunately get their news and information from a variety of sources.

The electorate have grown up, or at least wised up to where all those decades of spin and news management have got us.

MEMO TO THE MEDIA: THIS BS DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE.

All my top flight graduate friends (in the 80s and 90s) went into media rather than politics, because they knew they would have power there, and not get voted out. They'd get paid more, and have more influence.

BUT THOSE DAYS ARE GONE.

Obama has achieved so much by bypassing the traditional hierarchies of campaign finance, activism and pork barrel salami slicing.

A new politics, began a decade ago, is now paying dividends

by duende 2008-05-07 10:55AM | 0 recs
Oh, Jonathan

Don't you know that the Obama haters have learned their lessons well from W? If you repeat something long enough poof it becomes conventional wisdom...at least among the chattering class.

Thing is, I think we're really into new territory here. People genuinely are getting tired of being tortured with the droning repetition that characterized the Bush years, so it's not nearly so effective anymore.

by bookish 2008-05-07 10:59AM | 0 recs
On White Voters....

Personally, I feel the efforts of Bill Clinton's small town campaigning and Hillary's message calibration from Texas and Ohio contributed far more to their gains in White supporters than Wright or the bitter gaffe ever did.  The "rural hitman" Bill Clinton is a big winner for Hillary and I think her fighter image appeals to that demographic quite well.  

Basically, Whites were voting for Hillary, not against Obama.

by Homebrewer 2008-05-07 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

And Hillary has shown to be the winner after having months and months of nonstop pummeling from the press and media and she has been winning all thse states DESPITE OF THEIR EFFORTS.  lol, makes you think they're really ticked off, and that's why they stoop to their lowest level. lol

by LindaSFNM 2008-05-07 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

How has she shown herself to be the winner? By what metric?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-07 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

And, of course, Clinton has her own problems, which would have arisen, had she been able to win the nomination.

For example, Quinn runs through a series of issues that Clinton would have had to face if HRC had won the nomination and concludes, "The Clintons have been lucky. Obama has not brought up any of these issues in this campaign. But if the Democrats are afraid of what the Republicans would do in the fall to Obama with Jeremiah Wright, just imagine the glee with which they and Karl Rove are anticipating the Clintons as opponents. Why do you think they are so hard on Obama? Obama is not nearly as vulnerable as Hillary Clinton would be. Besides, Barack Obama completely broke off his relationship with Wright. He got up and moved. Hillary has not."
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfai th/sally_quinn/2008/05/judge_not_hillary .html?hpid=opinionsbox1

by politicsmatters 2008-05-07 11:04AM | 0 recs
I'm not so sure.

SUSA's latest poll shows some awfully surprising cross-tabs here.

by HellofaSandwich 2008-05-07 11:13AM | 0 recs
There is something ironic

In that having a diary about getting over the whole Wright affair. You manage to stir up the hornets nest of pro-Hillary wright enthusiast.

And they're still insisting that it's just a matter of time till people realize they should be REALLY, REALLY upset about Wright.

I think it's the Hillary camps behind the scenes whispers about Wright that have kept the story alive in the media until now.

by Tatan 2008-05-07 11:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

"isn't it about time for the media to stop speculating about Obama's potential Wright problem, and in fact just stop talking about Wright altogether?"

My guess is that Obama would have been far more damaged by Wright if the media, Senator Clinton supporters etc had not spent so much time talking about it.

For many middle of the roaders perhaps there came  a point at which distaste at what Wright said was  outweighed by distaste at the sanctimonious self-interested attention it was  given by others.

by My Ob 2008-05-07 11:22AM | 0 recs
I haven't seen any polls that show Obama winning

against McCain in the electoral college.

First of all, Obama should be killing McCain right now, he's not.

Obama loses too many swing states. He needs to win 3 of the following 4 swing states:

FL, OH, MI & PA

He definately can't win two of them, FL & OH. He can't win enough red states to make up for them.

In short, we've lost before the race has begun and it was all predictable. Nominate a liberal with Obama's baggage and you lose big.

Obama's race-bating strategy may backfire. His coalition is now made up of egg-heads and blacks. That is the old George McGovern coalition. How many times does a party have to be taught the same lessons?

by mmorang 2008-05-07 11:30AM | 0 recs
Re: I haven't seen any polls that show Obama winni

It is silly to say Obama should be killing McCain right now.  Obama has had to run against Hillary and mostly not against McCain.  The Democratic party apparatus can't back Obama too much either until the primary is over.  

This is McCain's high water mark.

I think Obama is unlikely to win Florida but the rest of those states should be no problem.  There is very little evidence to support a claim that he can't win Ohio.

by snaktime 2008-05-07 12:10PM | 0 recs
Re: I haven't seen any polls that show Obama winni

He won't win OH of FL. Were nominating someone who can't win enough white working-class votes.

The Obama of January does not exist any more. He lost the conservative vote to Clinton in IN (his backyard) by 24%!

He has lost too many whites because of his race-bating strategy. He didn't need to employ that strategy against the Republicans, but he did against the Clinton's because of their popularity among blacks. It got him a short term victory, but will cost him and the party the white working-class votes we've worked so hard for.

by mmorang 2008-05-07 12:20PM | 0 recs
Re: I haven't seen any polls that show Obama winni

The two most recent McCain-Obama polls in Ohio have McCain +1% and +2%.  And you are convinced there is no way he can win there?  I mean give me a break.

by snaktime 2008-05-07 12:51PM | 0 recs
As of today he LOSES OH, after all the ads hit

about his associations and comments he will get creamed in OH and FL and quite possible MI and PA.

He is ripe for a landslide defeat and it was all predictable. Since when has the party nominated a liberal and won in the last 40 years?

The definition of "crazy" is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Obama will be soundly defeated. You don't nominate a rookie to go against a war hero in a time of war and expect to win.

If Obama loses as I expect him to, it will be the end of the Democratic party as a legitimate national party. This electtion never should have been lost.

by mmorang 2008-05-07 01:21PM | 0 recs
I do not buy the media spin

He won his usual 37% white vote and 92% African American vote in NC. Hillary won 61% white vote. The only reson he had big margin was because 35% electorate was African america. Please name me the last elected president that won with 37% white vote. I am sure you are repeating MSNBO spin.  

by indydem99 2008-05-07 11:30AM | 0 recs
Re: I do not buy the media spin

His coalition in NC is almost exactly the same as his coalition in the other southern states he won big a long time ago - in fact I think he got a lower percentage of the white vote in SC and MS and about the same in Georgia.  

Bill Clinton won 39% of the white vote in 1992 and 43% in 1996.  In contrast, why don't you try to name the last Democrat who won with 6% of the black vote.

The real problem here is analogizing from the Democratic primary to the general election.  It just doesn't work that way.  

by snaktime 2008-05-07 12:22PM | 0 recs
Re: I do not buy the media spin

And AGAIN this makes the argument that the white people that voted for Clinton won't vote for Obama in November.

That's a false argument.  Some won't, this is true.  There are still Dems who would not vote for an African American under any circumstances.  The Obama campaign knew that going in.  However, they are in the very small minority of Democratic voters.  

But to try an rationalize that every single white person will not vote for Obama is an insult to these people.  Just because YOU won't does not mean everyone else will.

by gimmeabreak 2008-05-07 02:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

I assume this is a rhetorical question? Of course the MSM won't stop harping on Wright. He's given them too many juicy read-meat sound bites.

by doyenne49 2008-05-07 11:34AM | 0 recs
I've been researching for two hours...

I haven't been able to discover the name of Wright's new book, the publisher, or when it's going to be released.

Not a single news story contains any credible information on these facts.

You'd thing the Wright-obsessed media would have asked him something like that while he was grandstanding.

by Dracomicron 2008-05-07 11:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

If you think the media and the Right-wing noise machine is going to stop talking about Wright, I want some of what you are drinking.

He lost the white vote by large margins in both states.

But I guess Wright was not a problem.

Oy!

by GregNYC 2008-05-07 11:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

I would disagree with you as to whether the Wright affair has damaged Obama in the primaries.  I think it has, as evidenced, for example, by Hillary doing better in Indiana than the Obama campaign expected and by national poll number showing Obama's support among the white working plummeting.

However, whatever you think about its effect in a Democratic Primary, I'm sure you would agree that it its effect in a General Election could be entirely different, as the GE electorate is, overall, far to the right of the Democratic Primary electorate.

by markjay 2008-05-07 12:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Never Gonna Give Him Up?

Good blog, major run-on sentence problems.

by 08AMA 2008-05-07 12:20PM | 0 recs
Wright Controversy not even begun yet

Bill Ayers will be ripe for attacks as well.

The loss in November will not be like other loses. This is one we NEVER should have let get away.

We are nominating a man who said that the Clinton's used race-bating tactics, a BIG BOLD-FACED LIE!

His spiritual advisor of 20 years said "Clinton rode us (the black community) dirty".

He said that white working-class voters are "bitter" and "cling" to their guns and religion.

It's such a huge Democratic year that he "might" still win in November but I wouldn't bet a nickel on that happening given the ammo he's given McCain.

by mmorang 2008-05-07 12:33PM | 0 recs
Jeremiah Who?

Wright?

Never heard of him.

by Kobi 2008-05-07 12:33PM | 0 recs

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