It's Not On His Website, It's On "My" Website

There's a lot of talk in the diaries about whether the San Francisco event at which Randi Rhodes, doing her best to unite and uplift the nation, called Hillary Clinton and Geraldine Ferraro "whores" was an Obama fundraiser, i.e. a sanctioned Obama campaign event. Those who insist that it was, point to a page on barackobama.com promoting the event as proof; the problem with this argument though is that if you look at the url it's technically on my.barackobama.com. Why is this important? Because the point of my.barackobama.com is to allow supporters to organize and create a community on their own. It's no accident that the Obama campaign uses the same online tools as the Democratic Party website does; this is part of the legacy of the Dean campaign.

This event was created by and for Obama supporters using these tools. That's called user-generated, bottom-up people powered organizing. Saying that Obama should be held responsible for what happens at any event organized and promoted through these online tools is akin to holding me, Jerome or Jonathan accountable for every crazy word written in the diaries, which fundamentally misunderstands the point of a community blog -- that it's a community where people are empowered to create content and a community. Barack Obama likes to say that "change happens from the bottom up" and that "this campaign is not about me, it's about you" and quite frankly, his web tools reflect this philosophy.

Now, I will say the fact that Randi Rhodes said what she said at an event that was organized to raise money for Barack is further evidence of Rhodes's stunningly poor judgment -- as a public figure who has endorsed Barack Obama -- but it has nothing to do with Barack's judgment. To claim otherwise, quite frankly, is disingenuous.

Tags: 2008 Presidential election, Barack Obama, Democratic nomination (all tags)

Comments

155 Comments

Re: It's Not On His Website

Todd, regardless of whose website it is, don't you think Obama should make a statement denouncing such egregious hate speech? Does it help him to stay silent?

by TexasDarlin 2008-04-04 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

As Todd is saying, this would be akin to Jerome having to make an apology for everything linfar writes

by wasder 2008-04-04 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

That is soooo funny you used linfar as an example.

She is getting all paranoid at hillaryis44, because she got called out in her new MyDD blog that didn't jive with her actions at AROD's site.

She asked the hill44 admin to figure out how people were reading her comments!

by FOB92 2008-04-04 03:03PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

and wasn't she kicked out for at least a period of time? or did that 'un-happen' somehow?

by zerosumgame 2008-04-04 04:04PM | 0 recs
Why?

Why should he have to denounce such obviously offenisive language?

That's like asking why Hillary hasn't denounced Larry Johnson over at NoQuarter.

Or the whole Hillaryis44.org website.

There is nothing wrong with others bringing attention to it, and be outraged.

But it's disingenuous for people who have made the diaries and posts over at NoQuarter(and some here) to feign such outrage and demand Obama denounce Rhodes.

by DaveDial 2008-04-04 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Why?

Speaking of No Quarter, that's where I saw this being pushed, and all it does is prove what an insane site that is.  I would encourage every SANE person to go there and see what is being pawned off as "research" in the diaries, just to see the kraziness supposedly on the Democratic side.  It is all attack Obama all the time with unproven innuendo and cherry picked information.  It is quite ridiculous.  As i have said before in the comments here and elsewhere, I tried to go in there to have a rational conversation, and was called a troll and an enemy because I caucused for Obama in WA State.  They are bat-guano crazy over there.  I have no idea what Larry is trying to do, but it has nothing to do with increasing awareness or educating people or improving our discourse.  It is about killing Obama's nomination. Period.  A large percentage of people there will not vote for Obama if he is the nominee and will sit this election out....  or vote for McCain.  Great Democrats.  I can't go there any more because the Stoopid hurts too much.....

by funknjunk 2008-04-04 03:36PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

why did this get troll rated?

by TexasDarlin 2008-04-04 02:13PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

I disagree with the sentiment, but there was nothing trollish about it.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-04-04 02:17PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

thatpurplestuff is right.  I disagree with the idea, but there is nothing trollworthy there.  Gonna go mojo it to counteract.

by lockewasright 2008-04-04 09:25PM | 0 recs
Disagree...

...but uprated because of the ratings abuse.  You didn't deserve to be TR'd for saying it.

by Progressive Witness 2008-04-04 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Disagree...

Yeah, I dropped deuce too.  Not TR-worthy at all.

by rb608 2008-04-04 02:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Disagree...

Same here.

by fogiv 2008-04-04 03:49PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

a) no   b)  yes

by interestedbystander 2008-04-04 02:32PM | 0 recs
There is no reason this

Should have received a troll rating, and that's coming from an Obama man. Have some mojo to counter, it is a fair question.

by Drewid 2008-04-04 06:51PM | 0 recs
this needed to be said

Thanks Todd. Hope some of the diarists who railed about this are reading.

by wasder 2008-04-04 02:06PM | 0 recs
Todd

Thank you for announcing this fact.

by Student Guy 2008-04-04 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Todd

You don't live in say, Michigan or Florida do you?  Because he definitely doesn't think THOSE states are cool ... in fact, he's so unhappy with those states, he's willing to rip two stars off the flag!

by beebop 2008-04-04 02:25PM | 0 recs
No I live in what has been called by some as

a "boutique state" full of "yuppie liberals" that "uses an undemocratic method" to choose how it nominates people and somehow "doesn't matter" because it is "insignificant" despite the fact that it is the longest running blue state in the nation (DC isn't a state).

by Student Guy 2008-04-04 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: No I live in what has been called by some as

Minnesota?

by democrattotheend 2008-04-04 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Todd

Ummm... Yeah...  You may want to think before you bring up a "disrespecting certain states" argument.

by recusancy 2008-04-04 02:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Todd

Sorry.  That's the facts.  Only the kama sutra has been more twisted to suit one person.

by beebop 2008-04-04 02:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Todd

I thought the Kama Sutra was meant for two?

by fogiv 2008-04-04 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Todd

I think they call that a non-sequitir.

by rb608 2008-04-04 02:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Todd

I'm from Florida. I voted for Obama.

by LiberalFL 2008-04-05 09:58AM | 0 recs
Thank you!

Much appreciated Todd.  It's a very important distinction to make, because punishing the candidate for the things that individual users do will just cause the candidates to make their sites less interactive for the public in the future.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-04-04 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

Wow - what a revealing comment. You regard apologizing as punishment?

How about this? By apologizing, he would create the dynamic whereby it's not acceptable for people organizing fundraisers on his behalf to refer to Clinton as a 'fucking whore'. he would let people know that he considers unacceptable rhetoric and does not appreciate it being unleashed in his name.

After Wright's diatribe, he didn't distance himself. he didn't make clear that comparing Hillary and her supporters to Pontius Pilate and Obama to jesus was inappropriate. Even more offensive was Wright's comment that Hillary has never beeen called a nigger. Well, no, Reverend Wright, but she's now been called a fucking whore by Obama supporters, using the tools Obama provided for their organizing means and on his behalf.

it just seems to me that if Obama wants to win blue states, he must appeal to clinton supporters. And I have no idea why, if he can't apologize and distance himself from this and Wright,  any Clinton would see him as worth voting for against McCain.

You guys need to think about how this plays in  the general election.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 03:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

Wow... it's almost like you're being intellectually dishonest and twisting what I said.  Be careful, you don't want to earn a reputation for doing such things... haha.  My point was that to hold a candidate (or blogger) accountable for every event (or diary) that is on their campaign page (or blog) will decrease the likelihood of future candidates (or future bloggers) allowing the public to interact with their campaign page (or blog).

Honestly, you've gotta be a troll.  I'm not even going to bother responding to you after this post because it's obvious that you don't read posts before you reply anyway.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-04-04 03:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

It's not a troll.  It's someone from No Quarter...  which you may or may not have noticed, is an insane blog wherein insane people congregate....

by funknjunk 2008-04-04 03:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

Oh, a woman objecting to the first viable female candidate for president being called a "fucking whore" at a fundraiser organized by her Democratic opponents supporters must be a troll.

This is a fucking disgrace. How is the Democratic party supposed to stand against bigotry when a nationally known talk show host, speaking at a fundraiser for the Democratic candidate, gets away with calling a woman of Clinton's accomplishments a "fucking whore".

What moral right will we have to call anyone on bigotry if we think that's acceptable campaign rhetoric?

Are you proud of this? Don't you recognize how much better it would be if Obama denounced this? Can you really support a candidate who looks the other way when his supporters act like this? This isn't a diarest on a blog - this is a nationally syndicated talk show host speaking at a fundraiser organized by obama's supporters and advertised on a website maintained by the candidate.

How do you expect to be able to object to the racism that will inevitiably be hurled Obama's way if you don't object to this?

I'm just stunned.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 04:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

It wasn't an Obama fundraiser, the money went to the sponsoring radio station:

http://www.green960.com/cc-common/mainhe adlines2.html?feed=213008&article=34 93425

"Comments made by Randi Rhodes were made during a Green 960 Event on March 22nd.  Those in attendance were required to sign up through Green960.com and paid $5 to attend.  Money raised went to Green960."

by davisb 2008-04-04 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

The thing is....  I DO OBJECT.  I just simply disagree that Obama has some kind of moral obligation to go and denounce those statements.  He is not responsible and had nothing to do with them.  It's not his job to police even his own supporters.

We can disagree on this without hating each other right??  And, will you vote for Obama if he is the nominee?  Let's just get it on the record, because I'm so tired of seeing the hate against Obama being spewed forth from Hillary supporters, that I just want to know that one thing.  Frankly, that tells me all I need to know.  If in this political climate, you can stay home or vote for McCain....  that's all I need to hear....

by funknjunk 2008-04-04 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

Gonna ignore the facts when they get too hard for ya, eh, Little Otter?

I feel bad for you, man; even most of the other hardcore Clinton supporters don't stoop to this level. You're in my prayers, buddy, I hope you get through this hatred- and I hope you do, truly, because hatred has a way of eating you from the inside out. This isn't worth this much hate, man. It's just not worth it.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 10:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

Is Obama apologizing for something he had absolutely nothing to do with going to untwist your undies?  No.  You're going to come up with something else to get outraged about that he has nothing to do with.  Just like the Reverend Wright stuff you just can't get over.

Let's have some friggin perspective, I implore you.

by asherrem 2008-04-04 04:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

yeah, because I don't think Democrats should tolerate this kind of language out of prominent supporters. Obviously, people in the obama campaign don't.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 04:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

Your propensity for generalizing astounds me.

I think what Randi Rhodes said was disgusting--I am a democrat, a woman, AND an Obama supporter.  This "he said/she said" crap is getting out of hand.  

He no more has to apologize for what RR said than Hillary has to for what any of her supporters (not staffers) have said.  When did Hillary apologize for James Carville?  For freak's sake.  What was your reaction to the "Judas" comment?  Did you demand Hillary apologize to Richardson?  I highly doubt it.

As I said, it's about perspective.  As democrats, I thought we were a little more level-headed.  If you don't like what RR said, demand an apology from HER.  Neither the Obama campaign nor the Clinton campaign speak for all of their supporters.  If you're going to hold Obama accountable for this crap, you better start holding Clinton accountable too--I'm not, I'm more concerned with the issues, not the smear campaigns.

by asherrem 2008-04-04 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

There's nothing level headed about calling a woman of Clinton's accomplishments and progressive inclinations a "fucking whore".  Maybe in your world that's how adults talk, but in my world, adults would be eager to distance themselves from that rhetoric. Think about it - when someone speaks out of turn and on your behalf, aren't you eager to straighten it out? Obama, apparently, isn't. He's content to let that stand out there in his name, just like he was with Wright. And with his wife's rhetoric as well. There's nothing that can be said about Clinton on Obama's behalf, apparently, that Obama finds objectionable.

If I were obama, I'd be offended that such language was used on my behalf by a nationally syndicated talk show host, and the event was organized using the tools I provided. But then I'm neither a racist nor a misogynist and if someone well known spoke out in my name, I'd want that established.

Obama clearly doesn't care when celebrities refer to Clinton as a "fucking whore" on his behalf. But that's the difference between Obama and Clinton. Clinton flew to a tarmac and apologized personally when she found out her staffer - someone who they campaign did not pay, btw -  had forwarded an email accusing Obama of being Muslim. Obama doesn't have that kind of decency. And if you think that's acceptable behavior, you don't either.

Wouldn't you be proud of him if he apologized for that? Wouldn't it make you feel like he'd elevated the conversation? But he won't do that. He's content to wallow in the mud as long as it makes him feel like he might win.

As for James Carville, Carville went to bat for Samantha Powers and said she said nothing wrong. He didn't think she should have been fired. So, I guess it goes both ways. You must think he's wrong for thinking Powers should have been kept on.

It's so weird how Obama supporters keep trying to pretend that Randi Rhodes is an anonymous supporters on the internet instead of a nationally syndicated talk show host with a substantial following. In Miami, her show got (gets?) more listeners than Rush Limbaugh. She's not some rough and tumble local girl. She's well known through out the nation.

So what are you going to do when racist Republicans start acccusing Obama's wife of being a "fucking whore". You're gonna be fine with that right? Because that's how level headed people sometimes talk. Or at the very least, level headed people look the other when bigots coopt the stage.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 06:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

Again, Little Otter, you're being completely disingenuous, and you're not even original about it. Sad, really. I kind-of feel bad for you.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 10:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

Persistent little troll isn't it?  I think Little Otter is angling to win the annual troll sweepstakes.

by GFORD 2008-04-05 11:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank you!

Hear! Hear!  Thanks for saying this - good points.

by cameoanne 2008-04-11 08:56AM | 0 recs
**Huh?

**Are you serious about "apologizing" not being "punishment?"
When people are forced to ask forgiveness for something they didn't do, isn't that punishment?  

I insist that you apologize to Mr. Obama for demanding that he apologize to Mrs. Clinton.  And admit it.  Anybody who would vote for John McCain simply isn't a democrat, so why continue using the threat?  It's empty.   Blue states are already in Obama's corner.  I'm in a blue state.  I demand that you apologize for suggesting that I might vote for McCain.  

And since you're insisting that candidates distance themselves from unsavory characters, perhaps Hillary should make Bill go away.   (After all, the minister used bad language.  Bill used young women.)

by greylox 2008-04-04 06:58PM | 0 recs
Re:

Thank you, Todd.  Kudos for intellectual honesty.

by Pat Flatley 2008-04-04 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re:

Can you imagine if MyDD were held personally responsible for every ranting diary here?  They'd have to hire a full-time apologist.

by Pat Flatley 2008-04-04 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re:

It's a shame that MYDD feels so responsible for proHillary posters that some of them have been kicked off the site ... but I guess we hold all things Hillary Clinton and related to Clinton to a different and higher standard?  Good thing too, since none of us want to be held to the shockingly low standards set for Obama and his adherents.  Word used intentionally.

by beebop 2008-04-04 02:21PM | 0 recs
Re:

Woah, I had no idea that Mark Penn posted here.  The simple fact is that none of the site's proprietors should feel the need to apologize for the lunatics on either side.  Stop spinning and just have a discussion.

by Pat Flatley 2008-04-04 02:24PM | 0 recs
Re:

With no intelligent challenge to the discussion, you guys are really second rate!  Penn?!  Like I'm insulted by you! hahahaha

by beebop 2008-04-04 02:30PM | 0 recs
Re:

If you have any examples of videos being circulated amongst right wing blogs that were posted here by Obama supporters that show 9/11 victims jumping out of buildings, alongside clips of Hillary and Bill Clinton, I suggest you contact the admins about them.

I applaud the admins for deleting that trash.  It made us look bad as a community.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-04-04 02:29PM | 0 recs
Re:

The thing is, the Obama supporters COULD actually draw a link between Clinton and 9-11. He knew about Bin-Ladin and didn't strike because he didn't want to hand a war to the next president.

HOWEVER, I chalk that one up to a bad judgment call that the next president would actually act responsibly and follow up on the advice that Bill gave him on the way out. That the next POTUS would actually care more about his responsibility than his power.

It's like the Clintons have a weakness to Bush lies or something. Oh well, he is a sneaky lil' bastard.

by Darknesse 2008-04-04 02:53PM | 0 recs
Re:

This Obama supporter says quit it!  Clinton had a competent anti terrorist group of people in his admin.  Bush dropped the ball (per Richard Clark's testimony).  Don't say this "we can draw a line" BS. It's not helping.

by recusancy 2008-04-04 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re:

and you are a troll babling RW talking points straight form LGF/freeperville, if your are a BHO supporter you make him look bad.

by zerosumgame 2008-04-04 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re:

Just for you?

by beebop 2008-04-04 02:35PM | 0 recs
Re:

Ugh.

by Pat Flatley 2008-04-04 02:37PM | 0 recs
I'll take that job

I'm not sure if I'm qualified, though.  I tend to apologize by saying such things as "I'm sorry you're  ability to comprehend my statements are marred by your inability to understand English."

Is there a freelance market for that sort of thing?

by juliewolf 2008-04-04 02:51PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

Randi Rhodes has clearly demonstrated some terrible judgement, but I'm pretty sure the event was actually a fundraiser for the radio station, Green 960, not for Obama...

by davisb 2008-04-04 02:13PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

Nope, the radio station, which has endorsed Obama, sponsored the event.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 03:28PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

And, according to that radio station, the money raised during the event went to the radio station itself, not to the Obama campaign:

http://www.green960.com/cc-common/mainhe adlines2.html?feed=213008&article=34 93425

"Those in attendance were required to sign up through Green960.com and paid $5 to attend.  Money raised went to Green960."

by davisb 2008-04-04 03:49PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

How utterly bizarre since the announcement on the obama site described the radio station as "sponsoring" the event. obviously, there are two different versions. We'll see what happens.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 04:24PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

I'm not seeing the word "sponsor" anywhere on that my.barackobama.com profile.  It actually says "THIS IS GREEN 960'S EVENT" which would seem to be in keeping with a fundraising event thrown in support of Green 960.

Seems like it's all just one version all around.

by davisb 2008-04-04 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re

Just one correction, the Dean "campaign" had nothing to do with paying BlueState Digital an untold amount of dollars to develop the DNC site known as Party Builder. Lets not confuse something built by the DNC and then provided to the Obama campaign with things that were done by Dean's presidential campaign.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-04-04 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Re

Jerome, Todd simply noted that it was part of the Dean legacy.

by Pat Flatley 2008-04-04 02:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Re

Yea, that's what I meant. Not really, it's Blue State Digitals platform.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-04-04 02:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Re

I don't think that Todd was suggesting that it was literally Dean's platform.

by Pat Flatley 2008-04-04 02:32PM | 0 recs
It is the Dean theme

tough of bottom up campaigning.

by Student Guy 2008-04-04 02:35PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

On Randi, how dare you have such "stunningly poor judgement" by having an opinion.  My poor virigin ears!  I have never heard such outrageous sailor talk!  Oh, dear!  I am about to faint!

Please.

Stop grousing and crying about a little bit of rough talk done in a nightclub among adults.  This is not "hate speech," this is criticism of public officials.  These were not "ad hominem" attacks, as Air America's management claimed, they were explosions of frustration against the horrible actions of politicians.

You're allowed to be insulted by it, to not like it, to complain about it, to call Randi whatever names you like in return.  But muzzling Randi, taking her off her radio for opinions expressed outside her radio show, is going way overboard.

by Reluctantpopstar 2008-04-04 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

I tend to think we shouldn't tolerate our own versions of Ann Coulter on the left.  Anyone who thinks what she said is an acceptable way to talk about a presidential candidate doesn't deserve airtime, in my opinion.  It's one thing for a comedian to do it, but when you pretend to be a respected political commentator you deserved to be called out when you spew such vitriol.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-04-04 02:24PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

Agreed.  Here's hoping Air America fires her.  IMO you don't get to publicly say that kind of stuff and stay employed as a political commentator.

(Obama supporter here, but that was way, way beyond acceptable)

by ChrisKaty 2008-04-04 02:30PM | 0 recs
Whore

is a tricky word.

In addition to its original meaning, it has come to mean anyone who has sold out, and in that usage is applied to both men and women.

Ms. Rhodes was specifically arguing that Hillary had sold out. She may be wrong, you may disagree, but is a defensible argument that an honest person could make.

She was not implying that Hil has been spotted on the street corner, teetering on 6" heels, hiking up her mini-skirt.

Such conflation is dishonest & more hurtful to Randi than her comment was to Hil.

by wrb 2008-04-04 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Whore
Calling a woman a "f&*king whore" in public by someone who supposedly promotes progressive values is not to be taken literally and no one has. That doesn't make it any less ignorant and stupid.
Something we expect from Republicans, but certainly not progressive radio show hosts. We should hold our "public voices" to a higher standard.
Please stop this silly parsing.
by skohayes 2008-04-04 03:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Whore

Guess I don't consider any talk radio or tee-vee voices ours.

I've never caught Rhodes' show.  Never watch tv news.

by wrb 2008-04-04 03:39PM | 0 recs
Whores and fairy tales

Right, so it's OK to call Hillary, and her daughter, any nasty, sexist, misogynist name in the book, because all of them, arguably, have some other meaning in the vernacular. Bitch, whore, pimped out, even cu#t, are, I suppose, just fine and dandy.

Oh, but if you say that Obama's claim of consistent opposition to the Iraq War is a fairytale, that's out-an-out racism that can't be tolerated.

Finally, your pious claim about conflation and dishonesty and relative hurtfulness rings so patently false and hollow, so ridiculously indefensible, as to not even merit any response other than contempt.

by freemansfarm 2008-04-04 03:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Whores and fairy tales

Thanks for your appreciation.

I found the attacks on Chelsey enraging.

I don't find the use of "whore" as part of a actual argument about selling out, a big deal.

Strong words are good, in my opinion.

At least then you can disagree, strongly.

We suffer more from clouds of vague words.

Screw those who get inflamed about the word or the phrase but don't bother to follow the argument.

They are the enemy of a better world.

by wrb 2008-04-04 04:17PM | 0 recs
You're welcome

I guess I just don't think that Ms. Rhodes calling Senator Clinton a fucking whore is going to lead us to "better world."

by freemansfarm 2008-04-04 04:52PM | 0 recs
FYI

the 'n-word' has more then one meaning, feel free to bandy it about and let us know how that goes...

1.    Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive.
a.    a black person.
b.    a member of any dark-skinned people.
2.    Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive. a person of any race or origin regarded as contemptible, inferior, ignorant, etc.
3.    a victim of prejudice similar to that suffered by blacks; a person who is economically, politically, or socially disenfranchised.

by zerosumgame 2008-04-04 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: FYI

yep

A word which black people have free license to use

Women aren't allowed  equality?

by wrb 2008-04-04 04:35PM | 0 recs
Ground shift

You're shifting your ground now. Before, anyone could call Hillary a "whore," because it means a sell out. You made no reference to the gender of the person doing the insulting. But, when the shoe is on the other foot, you do. If those alternative meanings of the n word make it OK to use it in reference to Senator Obama, the race of the insultor should not matter. If the word arguably invoked any of the alternative meanings, even if said by the whitest person in America, it should be Ok, right?

Strong language is a good thing, it will lead us to a better world.

by freemansfarm 2008-04-04 04:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Whore

RR's statements were disgusting. And Wright's words are disgusting. Have all of you lost any sense of proportion? Anything is OK if it is pro-Obama or anti-Clinton? These things would be disgusting if they were about Clinton, Obama or anyone. What would you say if someone stood on a stage and called Obama a f*king pimp? Would that be OK? Oh, no. That would be racist, I suppose. But calling a lovely lady a f*king whore is just peachy. If a black person who was a Clinton supporter stood up and said G-D America? You would all be crying traitor. I am so tired of you.

by georgiast 2008-04-04 04:34PM | 0 recs
disgusting like this?


"If America does not use her vast resources of wealth to end poverty and make it possible for all of God's children to have the basic necessities of life," he preached, "she, too, will go to hell."

-Rev Martin Luther King

I take it you are on the other side?

by wrb 2008-04-04 04:43PM | 0 recs
Re: disgusting like this?

So you approve. OK.

by georgiast 2008-04-04 05:04PM | 0 recs
Disgusting like . . .

. . hiding behind Dr. King to defend racism and misogyny. Did he ever say that Italians had "garlic noses?" I must have missed that. Did Dr. King ever call someone a "fucking whore?" I must have missed that one too.

Just because something Wright said arguably sounds like something Dr. King said does not equate Wright with Dr. King.

And, in any event, I find this endless quoting of Dr. King to be tedious and disingenuous anyway. Something does not become Holy Writ merely because Dr King said it. Specifically, I strongly disagree with the quote you provided, and I'm not ashamed to say so.

First of all, I'm an atheist, so I find the word "hell" to be meaningless at best, and hateful and totalitarian at worst. There is no hell, it is a concept used to frighten people into believing, or pretending to believe, in a fairy tale. Secondly, every society that has ever existed has failed to eradicate poverty, has "God" sent them all to "hell?"

Poverty is a terrible thing, and I agree with Dr. King that it should be eliminated, but I don't agree with using fairy tales or threats of eternal punishment to get the job done

Please stop quoting Dr. King for things he never stood for, and please stop quoting him at all if you intend to use him as a club, or as a means of placing yourself, with your defense of hateful rhetoric, on the side of Dr. King, and, hence, the angels, and anyone who disagrees with on the other side.

by freemansfarm 2008-04-04 05:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Disgusting like . . .
Ok... Dr. King ain't on your side
Should we take up Dante. or TS Eliot?
by wrb 2008-04-04 05:57PM | 0 recs
Still at it

Right, you Dr. King, racist Wright, and misogynist Rhodes are one "side," and I am on the other. What a croc.

Why can't you just leave Dr. King out of it, before he rolls over in his grave. As for Dante and TS Eliot, what of them? That they were Christian poets? Good for them. Because they were great poets, does that make their belief in "hell" correct? I don't think so.

Anyway appeals to authority are logically fallacious. Stop making them.

by freemansfarm 2008-04-04 06:13PM | 0 recs
Pimp.. even F*cking Pimp isn't necessarily a negat

ive phrase.  Some definitions depending on context are positive... which you might view as misogynistic, but ultimately language is societies construct, not yours or mine exclusively.

As for what RR said, I think it was a bit strong, but ultimately its not classic hate speech but more a strong form of negative reasoning.

Too a large degree I think this is protected speech.

If you don't like it you don't have to attend or listen to her program.  Thats the other side of the issue.

Somehow blaming a candidate for a supporters speech places an unrealistic and inappropriate burden on candidates, to a place we don't want to go.

by Priest Valon 2008-04-04 05:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Whore

um, it's not "you all," it's "you the individual who made that comment."

if we all agreed, we'd be chiming in.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-04-04 05:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Whore

The diarist never said her comments were ok. He just said Obama should not be blamed for them.

by democrattotheend 2008-04-04 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not

Of course BO is not responsible for his supporters just like HRC is not responsible for Ferraro's comments.  Fair enough.

But when i watched that tape the thing that really caught my eye was not just RR statements but how the crowd cheered her on.  A room filled with BO supporters cheering these attacks on HRC.  And the sad thing is these BO supporters would cheer just as load if RR did the same thing tonight.

david

by giusd 2008-04-04 02:19PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not

I had no idea that Randi Rhodes was a surrogate of the Obama campaign.

by Pat Flatley 2008-04-04 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not

What part of Obama's campaign is Rhodes?  Does she have a title?

by mikeinsf 2008-04-04 02:25PM | 0 recs
As much as you may dislike it, ultimately

people are free to gather their own, sometimes politically incorrect, opinions on the subject.

That you don't like the un-PC nature of something doesn't mean other people can't or shouldn't hold that view.

Theres a line we don't want to cross.. which we've defined ultimately as "hate-speech", and this isn't that.

Ultimately, demanding perfection in political correctness is not going to happen because you cannot legislate private thought.

by Priest Valon 2008-04-04 05:05PM | 0 recs
But .. I DO hold you accountable

You and Jerome and Jonathan are ALL accountable for every thing posted here.  We ALL hold you accountable!  Didn't you know that?

/snark

by Southern Mouth 2008-04-04 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: But .. I DO hold you accountable

Campaigns and Blogs have different political standards, that's something that's not gonna be overcome. But, look, the comments on the Washington Post and ABC News are the most dispicable racist sexist crap on the political net.  The Beam is in their eye.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-04-04 02:31PM | 0 recs
Re: But .. I DO hold you accountable

Amen.  I remember back when Yahoo allowed comments on news stories.  Reading some of the things that people wrote was incredibly depressing.  I worked at a movie theater when I was younger, and I tend to think of commenting on the internet as a lot like people going to see a movie in a theater.  As soon as the lights go off and no one can see them, people turn into savages that throw garbage on the floor, pee in 32oz cups (yes, I threw away many a 98.6 degree soda), and generally act like barnyard animals.  I've found that internet comments are strikingly similar. :)

by thatpurplestuff 2008-04-04 02:38PM | 0 recs
Re: But .. I DO hold you accountable

Well, since he and Jerome and Jonathan are all the same people, you really only need to hold one of them accountable. :)

by Jay R 2008-04-04 03:44PM | 0 recs
Re:

Being Barack Obama is never having to say you're sorry!

by beebop 2008-04-04 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re:

Being one of the site's proprietors is never have to say you're sorry for your post.

by Pat Flatley 2008-04-04 02:28PM | 0 recs
Re:

Being Barack Obama means never having to say you're sorry ... was there a portion of that that you wanted to discuss?

by beebop 2008-04-04 02:31PM | 0 recs
Re:

Not particularly, no. If I posted, ";akljsdf;lashd;fla;laslj;sdsf" I wouldn't anticipate you wanting to discuss that, either.

by Pat Flatley 2008-04-04 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: R. Rhodes

R. Rhodes already lost all credibility when she reported to be mugged by a Bushie when really the crazy drunk just fell down.  I'm sure she was drunk when she gave that speech, too.  I expect she will apologize and head off to rehab soon.  But if Imus got the boot for what he said (and Obama was cool with that, remember) she should get the boot as well.

by BlueDoggyDogg 2008-04-04 02:36PM | 0 recs
Re: R. Rhodes

One minor distiction is that Imus made his statement over the air.  Rhodes was off the clock as it were.

by tired of dynasties 2008-04-04 04:46PM | 0 recs
I'm going to share a lesson with you ....

I am cutting and pasting a link to Obama's government website as well as several phrases that appear there:

http://obama.senate.gov/news/050626-when _it_c

"Obama acknowledges, with no small irony, that he benefits from his race.

If he were white, he once bluntly noted, he would simply be one of nine freshmen senators, almost certainly without a multimillion-dollar book deal and a shred of celebrity. Or would he have been elected at all?"

A teachable moment occurs each time an unpleasant subject which may be at the core of America's ills bubbles to the surface.

If we are to forgive Reverend Wright and G-D America and see he's comments as understandable (by some irrational thought process that I confess aludes me), can we hold Geraldine to a higher standard for simply repeating Senator Obama's words?  Is she the first person to have pointed this out to him?

So the next time you feel tempted to take a shot at Gerri Ferraro, do -- as you say -- a little research.

by beebop 2008-04-04 02:39PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm going to share a lesson with you ....
Prehaps if you would prefer there was none in the Senate.
Oh yes 1 out 100.
by KathyM 2008-04-04 03:30PM | 0 recs
It's not about judgement

It's his complete silence on the subject.  Senator Obama was justifiably outraged by the comments made by the radio host Don Imus.  He immediately called for Imus to be dismissed when Imus voiced vile, disgusting comments about the Rutgers Women's basketball team.  However, now when faced with a situation where one of his supporters is voicing vile, disgusting comments at an Obama endorsed fundraiser then Senator Obama is completely silent.  Of course he is not responsible for the comments that were made, but his "outrage" over the Imus comments rings hallow with his lack of "outrage" when someone calls the first viable female Presidential candidate, "f*%king whore".  

Just like his "courageous" race speech, Senator Obama speaks out when it's politically expedient for him.  That within itself speaks to the hypocrisy of Senator Obama.

by polson 2008-04-04 02:39PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

I believe - I'm happy to be corrected if wrong - he only commented on Imus when asked directly.  Has he been asked about this yet?  If he is, I am 100% certain he will denounce - and reject - it.

by interestedbystander 2008-04-04 02:46PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

Exactly...  He's not a firebreathing gotcha politician.  He's slow to judge.  That's a good thing.

And some things are so obvious that they don't need to be said.  Should he release a statement stating that puppies and kittens are cute and Hitler was bad?

by recusancy 2008-04-04 02:52PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

He should issue a statement saying that the rhetoric was morally deplorable and anti-progresssive and that he does not want that rhetoric being used in his name.

It's pretty fucking basic and I'd expect it out of anyone who had this diatribe unleashed in their name.

This has received national attention and it needs to be addressed.

Wright observed that she's never been called a nigger and now Rhodes calls her a fucking whore. Doesn't that make the point that the inflammatory rhetoric that is being used is dragging this campaign down? Are you actually proud to be associated with someone who tolerates those two misogynistic bigots speaking on his behalf?

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

Why exacty is pointing out that she's never been called a nxxxxr so horrible?  I'm looking for your point of view here, not trying to be snarky.

by tired of dynasties 2008-04-04 04:50PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

Because it's a demeaning comment. The entire statement was to the effect that she's never been called a nigger and doens't know what it's like to have to work twice as hard as that C student in the White House. The point of the comment was to smear her with bigotry and ignores the fact that women face as much, and frequently more discrimination, than Africans Americans do.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 07:05PM | 0 recs
stupid statement

the fact that women face as much, and frequently more discrimination, than Africans Americans do.

by Bucky 2008-04-04 11:33PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

Thank you for the explanation.  While i may not ultimatly agree, I appreciate the dialog.

by tired of dynasties 2008-04-05 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

You're wrong.

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3031317

Obama: Fire Imus
Obama First White House Contender to Call for Imus' Firing Over Racial Slur

By JAKE TAPPER
April 11, 2007--

In an interview with ABC News Wednesday afternoon, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., called for the firing of talk radio host Don Imus. Obama said he would never again appear on Imus' show, which is broadcast on CBS Radio and MSNBC television.

"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."

Obama said he appeared once on Imus' show two years ago, and "I have no intention of returning."

Racial Slur Stirs Trouble for Shock Jock

Last week, Imus referred to the Rutgers University women's basketball team, most of whom are African-American, as "nappy-headed hos." He has since apologized for his remarks, and CBS and MSNBC suspended his show for two weeks.

"He didn't just cross the line," Obama said. "He fed into some of the worst stereotypes that my two young daughters are having to deal with today in America. The notions that as young African-American women -- who I hope will be athletes -- that that somehow makes them less beautiful or less important. It was a degrading comment. It's one that I'm not interested in supporting."

Though every major presidential candidate has decried the racist remarks, Obama is the first one to say Imus should lose his job for them.

His proclamation was the latest in an ever-expanding list of bad news for Imus.

Sponsors, including American Express Co., General Motors Corp., Procter & Gamble Co., and Staples Inc. -- have announced they are pulling advertisements from the show for the indefinite future.

Tuesday, the basketball team held a press conference.

"I think that this has scarred me for life," said Matee Ajavon. "We grew up in a world where racism exists, and there's nothing we can do to change that."

"What we've been seeing around this country is this constant ratcheting up of a coarsening of the culture that all of have to think about," Obama said.

"Insults, humor that degrades women, humor that is based in racism and racial stereotypes isn't fun," the senator told ABC News.

"And the notion that somehow it's cute or amusing, or a useful diversion, I think, is something that all of us have to recognize is just not the case. We all have First Amendment rights. And I am a constitutional lawyer and strongly believe in free speech, but as a culture, we really have to do some soul-searching to think about what kind of toxic information are we feeding our kids," he concluded.

Clayton Sandell contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures

by polson 2008-04-04 02:57PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

Since we're parsing here, let's really do it.  Where is the transcript??  This is a news story, not the transcript of the interview.  Was he asked for his opinion first or no?  We don't seem to know, except you have now said that someone is "wrong".  And we don't know that....  hmmm...  just like all the innuendo over at the No Quarter blog.  Interesting.  What this is, is political expediency from some supporters when it suits them.  Don't post crap to support your thesis when it does nothing of the kind.  This blog is supposed to be a cut above I think.  

I will say outright that I will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee.  Let's hear the opposite from all the bile-spewing Hillary supporters lurking here from No Quarter.  No, it's attack, attack, attack, and no attempt at conversation or understanding, no explanation from Obama will do.  But, wait, when Hillary's Penn meets with the Colombians...  well, I'm sure her explanation will be just fine.  I'm sure there will be some discernable difference between her explanations of all her skeletons as compared to Obama's.  I'm sure.  

It's all about who "your guy" is.  Except I'm one of these enemy "Obamabots" who would gladly vote for Hillary come election time.  

All the twelve-year-old (in mind and/or body) Hillary supporters need to grow up and realize that politics is tough, and your guy lies and misrepresents the same as the next guy.....

by funknjunk 2008-04-04 04:08PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

So then why are you whining when I am fighting back?  A simple, "yes, you're right.  Obama is not consistent" would suffice.

by polson 2008-04-04 05:20PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

Uh, you have made no such point.  I don't think "right" and "wrong" mean what you think they mean.  You missed my point, which is that your parsing is not as good as you think it is.  Typical....

by funknjunk 2008-04-05 08:14AM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

Imus disparaged an entire race of people.
Randi Rhodes disparaged one person.

See the difference?

by jwolf 2008-04-04 04:33PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

Yes.  I do see the difference.  The comments of Imus disparage the Rutgers Women's Basketball Team and the comments of Rhodes disparage Hillary Clinton.  Therefore it must be justified, right?

by polson 2008-04-04 05:18PM | 0 recs
Political advocacy has VERY strong 1st

amendment protection and rightly so.

by Priest Valon 2008-04-04 05:22PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not about judgement

BO and his campaign has zero tolerance for anything they decided is racially insensitive.  Fair enough. Expect if you are a friend or mentor to BO and then zero tolerance does not apply.

david

by giusd 2008-04-04 05:58PM | 0 recs
buy-bye

Okay.  Now I understand why people are leaving this website.  If you don't like a comment, you just erase it.  Sorry.  It won't be like that in November.  So, as for me, I pick Democracy.  Counting all of the votes.  I leave you to your fantasy world and certainly won't intrude again.  I certainly am not going to waste time here to bump up your traffic and keep this pitiable effort alive.

(with a bow)

by beebop 2008-04-04 02:50PM | 0 recs
Re: buy-bye

GBCW!

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-04-04 05:13PM | 0 recs
It's On "My" Website

This was an Obama fundraiser event, in which a supporter and radio host disgustingly desparaged and slandered public figures.  Obama has consistently called out any poor behaviors from supporters and surrogates on the other side and swore to do the same from his, let alone a fundraiswer where a HARD PUSHING SUPPORTER who also carries her bias to our public aiwaves no less, show the lowest form of poor conduct, and Obama stays silent?  He was there for Imus and Imus had nothing to do with being a supporter.

And that is not being disengenuous.

by LindaSFNM 2008-04-04 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: It's On "My" Website

As a matter of fact, they were there instantly to ridicule a supporter of Hillary's who was not a part of her staff for comments they felt were inappropriate, Geraldine Ferraro, and Geraldine was talking to someone, not having any part if campaign events, so??????

by LindaSFNM 2008-04-04 02:58PM | 0 recs
Re: It's On "My" Website

You have a serious anger problem.  I suggest you take an asprin, and get some rest.  That is what I do when I get bent out of shape.  Sometimes I meditate.

by Spanky 2008-04-04 03:02PM | 0 recs
It is the same old Wink Wink Nod Nod from Obama

This is his typical modus operandi. He gives a new meaning to the word "hypocrite". He has split the Democratic party and driving old time Democrats like me out of the party.

I am now convinced that Obama's strategy is to drive baby boomers out of the party because he does not want to pay their social security. The only people he wants are people under 40.

by indydem99 2008-04-04 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: It is the same old Wink Wink Nod Nod from Obam

I am now convinced that Obama's strategy is to drive baby boomers out of the party because he does not want to pay their social security.

That has to be one of my all-time favorite wacky anti-Obama comments ever.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-04-04 05:20PM | 0 recs
Re: It is the same old Wink Wink Nod Nod from Obam

It is true. He is the Guru of generation politics.

by indydem99 2008-04-05 06:48AM | 0 recs
It's On "My" Website

I could almost buy this, were it not for the fact that Randi has been making hate speech for some time now, and Obama wears the inspiration hat.  Unfortunately there has been a pattern of hate speech against Hillary that has in fact been inspired by Obama, and it's tainted his hope message and ruined any chance he might have had to 'unite' the country.  Winning on hate is not the way to go if you want to unite. It's time for Obama to speak for himself, and say what he thinks about the smears that are repeated by his supporters.  Without this, whether he sanctioned the fund raiser or didn't matters not.   he's inspired this hate and he needs to own it and apologize, not hide behind some technicality of whether it's his own words or the words of those he inspires.  

by anna shane 2008-04-04 03:13PM | 0 recs
Re: It's On "My" Website

Interesting point, and I think I might agree.

Just today I was constructing just the opposite argument in my head.

It was an attempt at explaining to my self why reading the words of Hillary supporters here have so turned me against Hillary, who I always liked.

It is the failure to renounce the attacks on the very MLK-like Wright, and so use racism to advantage, while not being racist.

If Hillary made a speech condemning the sort of stuff posted here by her ugliest supporters, recognizing Wright's huge contribution, acknowledging him coming when they were in need, it would end.  And that would be leadership.

But she doesn't, and that has been causing my affection for her to bleed away.

By not doing so, I think she's running on racism, because it will help her in Penn, rather than leading us away from it, which would help our country.

by wrb 2008-04-04 03:52PM | 0 recs
Re: It's On "My" Website

I am now convinced that Obama's strategy is to drive baby boomers out of the party because he does not want to pay their social security.

Do you actually think Rhodes' comments were the kind of thing Obama wanted to inspire? (warning: reductio ad absurdum alert) Heck, Charles Manson was "inspired" by the Beatles' Helter Skelter, should they apologize for that?

I sure hope you're not suggesting that Obama really DID mean to inspire the types of hateful comments Rhodes made.

And it's kind of more than a "technicality" that he had nothing to do with the event other than those in attendance want him to be president.

I'm not saying it would be a bad thing if he rejectdenounced her comments, but he really shouldn't have to. Rhodes is not affiliated with the campaign, and it's a real slippery slope if we're going to demand candidate apologies every time some random entertainer, blogger or supporter says something offensive. If that's the case, they might as well be running around-the-clock apology sessions.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-04-04 05:32PM | 0 recs
Finally

Thanks Todd.  Truth prevails.

by fogiv 2008-04-04 03:20PM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website, It's On "

it continues to amaze, the hatred spewed by the 'hope' crowd.  The disgusting comments about the Clintons by MSNBC and the rest of Obama's supporters seem to know no bounds.  I mistakenly thought the 'pimping out'  comment was the lowest, yet these people keep sinking lower

by atomic garden 2008-04-04 03:23PM | 0 recs
Responsibility

If the Obama campaigns sponsors that board, then they have some responsibilities. If the Republicans sponsor a similar board, and a bunch of frat boys organize an overtly racist fundraiser against Obama, I'd expect McCain to apologize for it.

We expected McCain to say something about the woman who asked him how he was going to beat the bitch, but we don't expect Obama to distance himself from "Hillary Clinton is a fucking whore".

Does this mean we expect better behavior out of Republicans than the Obama campaign? Seriously - I'm starting to wonder.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 03:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Responsibility

This wasn't an Obama fundraiser, it was a fundraiser for a radio station:

http://www.green960.com/cc-common/mainhe adlines2.html?feed=213008&article=34 93425

"Comments made by Randi Rhodes were made during a Green 960 Event on March 22nd.  Those in attendance were required to sign up through Green960.com and paid $5 to attend.  Money raised went to Green960."

by davisb 2008-04-04 04:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Responsibility

Honestly, don't waste your time.  This person has been repeating themselves over and over since their original diary went up, and no matter how many times the truth has been pointed out they still keep repeating the same lies.

by thatpurplestuff 2008-04-04 04:04PM | 0 recs
Whose Barack Obama is it?

So, when Obama gets the benefit from this open sourced style of campaigning, when it nets him money, volunteers, and votes, that's just hunky dory, and, in fact, shows how cool, cutting edge and innovative he is.

But, when Obama supporters use the tools that Obama has provided them to organize attendance at a show that beneifits a radio station that endorses Obama, with futher support provided by several Obama groups, and where a prominent Obama supporter calls Senator Clinton and Geraldin Ferraro "whores," Obama has nothing to do with it and nothing to answer for.

With all due respect, Todd, you are not running for President. One would think that Obama has an obligation to monitor these devises, that have provided him with so much support, in a much more rigorous manner than the owner-operators of a general political discussion board, like MyDD. This is an official Obama website that we are talking about here, not MyDD, not Daily Kos, not even Hillaryis44, not a "community blog." And, in any event, to some extent, the owner/operators of every blog ARE responsible for its content, even that of user posts. That's why there are rules about what can and can't be posted, and why posts that violate these rules are deleted.

You want to give Obama credit for the sunshine (his wonderful "bottom up people powered" style), but, when it rains, it's all somebody else's fault.

What would it have cost Obama to dissociate himself from this disgusting display? What would it have cost him to make a special announcement to the users of "My Barack Obama" (what a creepy name, by the way) that it should not be used in any way that insults his opponent, or anyone else? Nothing, but Obama seems to lack the ability to apologize for anything, to ever admit that anything associated with his campaign is ever, even just a teensy bit, his fault.

by freemansfarm 2008-04-04 03:38PM | 0 recs
Finally some constructive criticism!

The best thing would be for both candidates to ask their supporters to cut it out. They should take the opportunity TONIGHT, while they are actually in the same place at the same time.

That said ...

I'm not sure what BHO should do about people listing the AA event on a community calendar. I'd be very surprised if they knew in advance that RR was going to say all this stupid, crazy stuff. She appeared to be drunk, and I'd tend to give everyone the benefit of the doubt that her comments did not reflect the opinion of the radio station or the campaign. (It probably did reflect the attitude of some in the audience but that's another matter entirely.)

As for comments made after the event ... yes, I think that any silly comments supporting on the RR fiasco should be wiped from the My Barack pages. Or even better, a disclaimer could be attached to the offensive comments saying that they are improper and do not reflect the attitude of BHO and the campaign. That way the idiots would be called out in public without the need to censor them.

Then, if DKos and MyDD could do the same thing with the worst of the anti-BHO and anti-HRC diaries/comments, then we might get somewhere. Call these jerks out and exert some discipline!

Report anything you find there supporting RR's comments and ask the BO.com admins them to remove it.  Heck you could even live blog it here, though I suppose some would troll rate it.

by professor 2008-04-05 09:24AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

Exactly!! Thank you Todd.

by lockewasright 2008-04-04 03:43PM | 0 recs
Thank you. Well said. 'Nuff said.

by Quicklund 2008-04-04 04:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Vindicated!

You aren't vindicated. You've come down on the side of a campaign that allows the tools it provides to it's supproters to be used to call an esteemed Democratic candidate a fucking whore - that's what side you're on. You're on the side that uses the campaign to engage in sexist bigotry against a woman who is actually making history.

Congrats on that.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 04:34PM | 0 recs
Hillaryis44 LIVE!


  basil9 Says:
April 4th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

Dot,

I agree. Ironic that it's called the `Democratic' Party and yet Deaniac, Brillo-head, horseface and Eddie-O are so intent on SUBVERTING democracy.

Brillo Head? Otter, can you get on the phone to Hillary?...she has some apologizing to do. It appears a site devoted to her "campaign that allows the tools it provides to it's supproters to be used to call an esteemed Democratic candidate a BRILLO HEAD."

by jwolf 2008-04-04 04:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillaryis44 LIVE!

Oh, so Basil is a nationally known talk show host who was performing at an event for Clinton supporters when he said that? Really?

because that looks to me like an anonymous post on the internet - not a comedy routine by a progressive celebrity performing at an event organized through her candiate of preference website.

So, please, tell me who that person is, how many people listen to their show, and how many Clinton supporters were cheering him on.

Our beef is not anonymous rhetoric. Our beef is a known talk show host performing at an event organized by campaign supporters (and at least one is a possible staffer), sponsored by a radio station which has endorsed Obama and attended by Obama supporters. That isn't singular anonymous rhetoric.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 05:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillaryis44 LIVE!

That's not true. Don't you remember?

That is so stupid and pathetic. You're in complete denial about the pigshit behavior of your candidate. You're trying to pretend that other people behave as badly as Obama and his supporters but they don't - the threats and the harassing have all come out of the Obama campaign. No one else is that much of a low life

Your beef DOES appear to be anonymous rhetoric, and bad behavior... kinda like what you're exemplifying there.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 10:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Vindicated!

You're part of a campaign to systematically denigrate the opposition, claim they are all racist, espouse "pigshit behavior" (your words, remember?), that their belief in their candidate is entirely without merit, that the candidate himself is... well, a variety of pretty inflammatory and hateful comments could go here.

But I suppose that's okay. Right?

by ragekage 2008-04-04 10:38PM | 0 recs
What if the tables were turned?

And this was an event at a website called myhillary or something like that, and instead of saying f-ing whore they said f-ing n-word?

Would all of you Obama supporters be saying, no problem, it's not the official campaign of Hillary, just some of her supporters getting together to raise some money?

I know the answer to the question, but you need to look in the mirror and realize that Obama's supporters are sometimes REALLY REALLY NASTY and do things that are totally contrary to the candidates words, and presumably his beliefs.

This is what will bring this "movement" down, not the message but the messengers, because they are turning millions of people off.

by blustateguy68 2008-04-04 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: What if the tables were turned?

Hey blustate...look up...the sky is falling.

But...it's not Hillary's site....right?

by jwolf 2008-04-04 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: What if the tables were turned?

there is a difference

A) is a discription of how you are acting. It might be applied falsly, but if it isn't it issSomething you can change

B) Is a description of your irredeamal taint. Nothing you can do, from birth ''till death.

by wrb 2008-04-04 04:59PM | 0 recs
Re: What if the tables were turned?

oh damn... I was just about to check my crippled-hand typing & hit the post button by accident

by wrb 2008-04-04 05:00PM | 0 recs
The only problem with the words Nigger or Whore

are when they are used in a hateful context.

Otherwise.. they are just words.

It so happens that its a lot easier to use the N-word in a highly inappropriate context.

Whore has a lot more latitude in context.

Ultimately you might not like what RR said, but it doesn't rise to classic hate speech.

If you want to argue that everyone should be politically correct at every moment, I'd strongly disagree with that premise.

You're not going to legislate thought.  Period.

If you don't like RR comment, you have every right to boycott and or protest her, but she has every right to think or say whatever she chooses, provided it doesn't flip over that hateful or incite line.

by Priest Valon 2008-04-04 05:11PM | 0 recs
The comments WERE made in public

While I agree that we can't legislate thought, we can legislate actions. There are limits to free speech, even and especially when in a public forum.

If a student in one of my classes used directed either word at another, even in fun, I would severely censure the perpetrator. The race or gender would not matter. It's just not appropriate, no matter how funny it might be to some people.

by professor 2008-04-05 09:42AM | 0 recs
You are exactly what is wrong..

with Obama supporters.  They take anything, first calling Hillary a monster, now calling her a "fucking whore" and say, "yea that's not that bad", BUT, if you used the N-word, it would be different....

Obama himself will likely say he thinks RR's comments are offensive and outrageous, if he is asked.  But the fact that his supporters ALWAYS support the people slinging slurs is why many Clinton supporters, and I'm sure people in the middle in the GE if Obama gets the nomination, are offended and don't want to vote for Obama.  I can't see the undecided's being able to stomach another 7 months of you guys, when the GE campaign starts.  They will likely be repulsed, as I have been and go for McCain.

After 8 years of GWB I am amazed that I am really looking at the possibility of sitting the election out if Obama is the nominee, although I may just write in Hillary.

by blustateguy68 2008-04-04 05:28PM | 0 recs
As a yellow dog ...

I'm just not seeing this. I've not seen the Obama supporters being any more aggressive/permissive than the Clinton supporters.  There are nut cases in both camps, but I suspect that they'd be nut cases regardless of who they supported.

I'll vote for either candidate in the GE. The idea is to vote against McSame, regardless, because we can't continue down the GWB-Rove path without tearing our country apart.

by professor 2008-04-05 09:49AM | 0 recs
Rovian Obama supporters

I'm concerned about the judgment of Obama supporters. Seems there are more than a few that are Rovian. That does reflect on Obama does it not?

by nellre 2008-04-04 09:07PM | 0 recs
Mark Penn????

If anybody in the current election cycle has come off as Rovian, it's Mark Penn. Perhaps there are some on the Obama campaign that are just as bad, but I'm not aware of them. Maybe you could help me out by giving some examples. But please, try to be respectful and objective.  

by professor 2008-04-05 09:54AM | 0 recs
Shock Jocks

Being obnoxious and over the top has been Rhandi Rhodes routine for as long as she has been on the air. Democrats have never been responsible for her ravings even when she was raving in favor of the Clintons or other Democrats. She speaks for no one but herself. I would not expect Hillary to apologize for the lunatics on Hillary44 or even some of the rantings posted here. She is not responsible for every a-hole that has a soap box and neither is Obama. When asked about outrageous comments they reject them but they have no responsibility to pro actively answer for every moron who supports them.

Ferraro was not a fringe radio personality who makes her living being outrageous with no connection to the campaign. She was a vice presidential candidate and congresswomen who held an official position with the campaign. So comparisons between Rhodes and Ferraro do not hold water.

by hankg 2008-04-05 03:46AM | 0 recs
Re: It's Not On His Website

Obama supporters should quit nitpicking the details. Why doesn't your candidate just come out and condemn the language that was used by a public figure supporting him?  If Rhodes had said something racist against Obama at a public event in support of Hillary, what would you be saying?  I think it would take Hillary about 2 seconds to condemn a remark like that made by a public person in support of her. You guys have such a double standard.

by ldOhio 2008-04-05 05:19AM | 0 recs
RR isn't a part of the campaign

You really don't want to make a candidate denounce every dumb thing a supporter says.

Firstly, its a slippery slope... first RR... then (famous) Bloggers?

You might not like what RR has to say.. but its your choice to boycott her and so on.  I would note that political advocacy is highly protected speech under the 1st amendment, and that she had the right to speak, even if you disagree or find it objectionable.

by Priest Valon 2008-04-05 07:45AM | 0 recs
I agree, but with a twist

BOTH candidates should JOINTLY condemn all such behavior. It's hurting BOTH candidates. As I've suggested elsewhere, tonight would be a great opportunity.

by professor 2008-04-05 09:56AM | 0 recs
Obama has an obligation to women

Obama may not have an obligation to denounce this particular event, but he does have an obligation to denounce the outrageous gender and class bigotry that has played such a large and ugly part in this campaign season's dynamics.

He must make a speech that demonstrates he takes these issues as seriously as he took the issues raised by the controversy over Rev. Wright. He must show that his concerns about bigotry and social injustice aren't simply self-interested or race limited.

I fear that the reason he doesn't do so is because he thinks doing so will offer some kind of advantage to or defense of his opponent. Or, worse, because he believes that this state of affairs works to his benefit.

If that is the way he thinks it is short-sighted, and perhaps revealing of a lack of depth and understanding -- the kind of understanding that will be needed to make his "unity" theme more than empty rhetoric.

Hillary doesn't require his defense. But her supporters and the principles of equal representation and political participation  -- far from being achieved and in danger of being set back by the Democratic party's complacent acceptance of the gender hostility aimed at both the first "viable" female candidate and her supporters -- do require his commitment. He can not afford to be lukewarm on these issues (toward which he has so far been very cool) -- he needs to show passion, understanding and genuine commitment to the women who have kept this party viable, and whose votes any democrat will need to win in November.  

by esmense 2008-04-05 08:06AM | 0 recs

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