Going Positive

According to Bloomberg news, this is just what Barack Obama is pledging to do at this juncture.

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, attempting to regain his momentum after losing the Pennsylvania primary, promised to shun negative campaigning as his race drags on against Hillary Clinton.

Obama, 46, an Illinois senator, began his drive for the nomination with a message of unity and the pledge that he wouldn't run a typical political campaign. Today, Obama said he realized his campaign had strayed in recent weeks.

``I told this to my team, you know, we are starting to sound like other folks, we are starting to run the same negative stuff,'' Obama told a crowd of about 5,000 in Wilmington, North Carolina. ``It shows that none of us are immune from this kind of politics. But the problem is that it doesn't help you.''

This is a rather interesting proposition -- positive, rather than negative, campaigning (and I use that latter term to include not only attack ads but also so-called "contrast" ads that function as a hybrid between positive and negative campaigning).

Currently, there are a lot of folks saying that they think Obama needs to change his message, or that he needs to develop a new stump speech, or that he needs to tinker with his campaign in some other fashion. The thought behind this is that although he is still on the inside track to securing the Democratic nomination -- it is still difficult to conceive of a way of Hillary Clinton to put together the necessary number of delegates from those remaining to be taken -- the fact that Obama has not been able to put Clinton away to this point suggests that he needs to create a new narrative, to change the storyline.

Going all positive could potentially do that. And there is at least some anecdotal evidence to suggest that such a tactic can work (even if it is risky). Back in early 1996, there was a special election to fulfill the Senate seat vacated by Oregon's Republican Senator Bob Packwood, who was forced to resign in the wake of a sexual harassment scandal. The race featured two well-funded candidates -- then-Congressman Ron Wyden on the Democratic side and then-state Senate President Gordon Smith on the Republican side -- and saw a significant amount of third party expenditures as well given that the race was seen as a possible bellwether for the upcoming presidential and congressional elections (as well as an opportunity for the Democrats to win back at least one Senate seat ahead of the party's effort that fall to reclaim the chamber). Unsurprisingly, the campaign turned negative -- and very negative at that. In the wake of the back and forth and back and forth, it appeared as though Smith had the advantage and was heading to victory.

But then, Wyden opted for a novel approach: Going all-positive for the duration of the campaign. He began running ads touting his positive campaign, he held ice cream socials -- and in doing so put his opponent on his heels. While Smith looked overly negative and petty, Wyden came off as the bigger man, more Senatorial, more worthy of support. In the end, Wyden beat Smith by a 2-point margin, marking the first time a Democrat won a Senate election in the state since 1962.

Now of course this anecdote isn't a perfect or even particularly great match for the current race between Obama and Clinton. The Wyden-Smith race was a special election, not a primary; it was a inter-party contest rather than an intra-party contest; and it was a Senate election instead of a Presidential race. Perhaps more importantly, it was an all vote-by-mail election, and with the exception of the upcoming Oregon primary, no other contest will feature such a system. What's more, even if the 1996 race were more like the current contest, there's no indication that the previous results would be replicated today -- and in fact there are great potential risks to taking down negative ads, which include allowing one's opponent to define themselves while still enabling the opponent to attempt to define the candidate going positive.

Nevertheless, the Wyden-Smith contest is instructive inasmuch as it shows that a candidate can change the dynamics of a close contest by going positive. Polling indicates that in that race Wyden pulled drastically ahead in late balloting -- just those voters who saw him go all positive and Smith remain negative. (Here's more polling also suggesting this move gave Wyden a tangible advantage.)

So no doubt it would be a risky move for Obama to go all positive. And such a move would require not only the candidate himself to stay on message but also the campaign to refrain from running harsh contrast ads and negative mailers, something that I would have to see to believe (and I'm not holding my breath just at the moment). That said, if Obama is truly interested in changing the dynamic of the race for the Democratic nomination and is already leaning towards adopting a positive campaign stance, he might be well served by following in the footsteps of now-Senator Wyden by turning this race on its head, putting the ball in Clinton's court and saying I'm going to stop the negative campaigning at all levels of the campaign, will you too?

Tags: Barack Obama, Democratic primaries (all tags)

Comments

111 Comments

Re: Going Positive
I think it also gives Obama a great counterargument when it comes to superdelegates this June: if HRC is still standing, he simply has to point out that he wasn't going to tear down a party elder and fellow Democrat when he didn't think the numbers required it, but would be more than willing to take it to McCain in the Fall. It demonstrates restraint and loyalty, and makes a good response when HRC's supporters mention that she wasn't given a killing blow.
by Jay R 2008-04-29 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

Too late. He's already spent a lot of time, effort and money tearing down the party elder.

You can't say you're against murder, then go out and kill someone, then say, 'oops....I strayed, and will never murder again.'

Laughable.

by dark1p 2008-04-29 12:12PM | 0 recs
We still know few specifics about his platform...

He hasn't really explained much about quite a few aspects of his platform. He's relied on his oratory style and good looks more than he should have.

Now its time for specifics, and no more whining about Hillary or similar.

by architek 2008-04-29 12:36PM | 0 recs
Re: love is in the air

"He hasn't really explained much about quite a few aspects of his platform. He's relied on his oratory style and good looks more than he should have. "

you think he is good looking ?

awwwwwwwww now I know why you always attack Obama every chance you get ...love taps

by wellinformed 2008-04-29 12:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive
Please, do you remember what the media looked like from 1992-2000? If Obama was going after Clinton, you'd be hearing words like "Vince Foster," "White Water," and "Norman Hsu" in every broadcast. His communications team only seems weak now because they're playing defense--do you think for a second they couldn't get the media to attack Clinton with a couple days' effort?
by Jay R 2008-04-29 01:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

we may not see them here much, but they have cropped-up. but those same things are used every day for months now on sites like dkos and freeperville and LGF. along will all the other dog-whistles for 90's neo-cons, and the use of terms like Clintonista and Hitllery, constructions and meme's straight out of the Limpballs/O'Lielly play book.

by zerosumgame 2008-04-29 04:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

And those come from his campaign?

Random supporters on the blogs spouting off do not a coordinated message strategy make.

Like I said, if he wanted to run a negative campaign, then you wouldn't be complaining about comments on other sites but about NY Times front-page articles, WaPo op-eds and a nonstop barrage of coverage on the news channels.  You'd have to be high to think that treatment is comparable to what he's lobbed at her so far.

by Jay R 2008-04-29 05:28PM | 0 recs
by minnehot1 2008-04-29 01:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

That was funny!

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-04-29 01:49PM | 0 recs
Ummm...

...are you really equating Obama's campaign to Murder?

I can't wait to hear what you'd equate Clinton's campaign to.

by DawnG 2008-05-02 08:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

Huh?  When was Obama negative?  I'm serious. His campaign has certainly been, but Obama had a very few days when he was negative, and his negative ad responses have fallen short every time. He's got other bigger problems.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-04-29 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

That's what I'm getting at, though. For this to be meaningful, it has to be top down -- his whole campaign apparatus (reasonably speaking). As I said above, no negative mailers or contrast ads. This would also mean (though I didn't mention it) no hits in conference calls, no hit email/press releases, etc. And as I said, I'll believe it when I see it -- but if it happens, that would be meaningful and a real change of the race in my book, at least.

by Jonathan Singer 2008-04-29 11:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

Oh, throw Robert Gibbs under the bus?  Sounds great.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-04-29 12:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

You people are unbelievable. Really.

http://www.attacktimeline.com/

by dark1p 2008-04-29 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

wow Hillary hub has  all the facts

Obama that scoundrel !!!

ummmm does Hillary hub have the the Timeline when Hillary went on the attack ??

I can't find it on Hillary hub ???

well I guess I will have to assume (like all Hillarybots that quote that site like the bible) that Hillary never ever ever attacked Obama or went negative she sure is running a high grounded campaign

by wellinformed 2008-04-29 12:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

You call these negative???  Except for the laying of the wreath and the one about her character, there is absolutely NOTHING here that is even specific enough to be slamming Hillary - this is really reaching.

by mariannie 2008-04-29 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

jonathan, is the weather nice over there in your parallel universe?

by nance 2008-04-29 12:26PM | 0 recs
For starters

they can stop accusing the Clintons and Clinton supporters of racism. And get the message out to Clyburn.

by Coral 2008-04-29 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: For starters

Just for starters...

by dark1p 2008-04-29 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: For starters

i think clyburn is doing this purely for himself.  it's a self-serving power grab, imo.  i think jamal over at stop-obama.org has it right--these so-called "leaders" are trying to keep aa's uninformed, dependent, and helpless in order to preserve their own power.  clyburn and brazile are the most obvious examples.

by nance 2008-04-29 12:24PM | 0 recs
(Comment Deleted)

This comment has been deleted by an administrator.

by wellinformed 2008-04-29 01:03PM | 0 recs
Re: For starters

wow, "racist shit head," "dumb," and "douche"--u're a real f'ing JERKOFF, aren't you?  (1) i never said aa's ARE uninformed, dependent, or helpless--i said CLYBURN AND BRAZILE are TRYING to keep information from aa's for their own selfish purposes (something MANY POLITICIANS DO); and (2) since you clearly haven't read what they have to say at stop-obama.org or care what anybody who disagrees with you has to say, why the hell should i listen to you?  so you can just STFU, m'kay?  have a nice day, jackass!

by nance 2008-04-29 01:12PM | 0 recs
Re: For starters

No.  You said Brazille and Claybourne are "trying to KEEP AAs uninformed, dependent and helpless"

This implies a current state of being the same.

Stupid racist comments don't fly.

by lojasmo 2008-04-29 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: For starters

jesus f'ing christ.  you want to read stupid crap into my comments the same way people read racist undertones into HRC's 3am commercial?  or into bill clinton's "fairy tale" comment?  

obama's 4-page memo and his "the clintons and their supporters are racists" campaign theme has kept a LOT of people of ALL RACES, ESPECIALLY WORKING CLASS VOTERS WHO CARE ABOUT RACIAL EQUALITY uninformed, dependent, and helpless--because, like, maybe we were counting on party elders to be LOOKING OUT FOR OUR BEST INTERESTS?  and yeah--I WAS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE BEFORE I REALIZED WTF OBAMA WAS DOING TO ME AND TO HIS AUDIENCE WHO BELIEVED HIM.  okay?  got it?

if you want to point out stupid racist comments, stop hurling those charges at fellow dems.  you're doing your candidate no favors.

by nance 2008-04-29 01:28PM | 0 recs
Re: (Comment Deleted)

the moral of the story is you can say whatever you want as long as you are pro clinton or anti obama.

by wellinformed 2008-04-29 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

Ha.  The problem with this strategy?  When has a Clinton ever worried about being viewed as divisive and/or petty?  No, Mr. Obama, don't throw me in that briar patch...

by NJIndependent 2008-04-29 11:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

This would be funny if it weren't so ironic.

"`I told this to my team, you know, we are starting to sound like other folks, we are starting to run the same negative stuff,'' Obama told a crowd of ...."

Starting?  STARTING?

What colossal nerve!

by emsprater 2008-04-29 11:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

agreed.  you hear obama spout this BS and you have to either laugh or cry, it's so preposterous.  his campaign will be 100% positive on the same day that pigs fly.  he's dragged dirty campaigning to a new low in dem presidential politics--way past bradley's liar campaign on gore and kerry's osama bin laden smear on dean.  it's so low it's no wonder his supporters' favorite game is WORM.

by nance 2008-04-29 12:20PM | 0 recs
by minnehot1 2008-04-29 01:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

Obama's appeal has been in his positive campaign and  I am reasonably sure that his supporters let him know he gained nothing from going negative in PA. The supers are probably letting him know that as well. Regarding supers, Obama's positive appeal has helped him keep Clinton at bay in many states he has won (or will win). (assumes KY, WV, GU, IN and PR for Clinton, MT, SD, OR, NC for Obama)

Let's do a comparison. Let's count the number of Clinton states/contests where Clinton held Obama to no SDs. 1-AR. And the states where she held him to 1 SD? 1-NY.

Now compare that with the number of Obama states/contests where Clinton has gained no SDs.

8 - MT, SD, WY, NE, ND, ID, IL, MS

And the number of Obama states/contests where Clinton has only one SD?

9 - AK, NC, OR, UT, KS, ME, CT, VT, DA

That's a measure of his positive message and his electability - 17 to 2.

by PatrickBradish 2008-04-29 11:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

Correction, missed Guam, - 17 to 3. Tough call on Guam. Obama could win and pick up several of the 4 remaining supers.

by PatrickBradish 2008-04-29 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

I think the album was called, Pretzel Logic. Yes, that was it. Steely Dan's first. Great phrase, works here, too.

by dark1p 2008-04-29 12:19PM | 0 recs
Seriously?

``I told this to my team, you know, we are starting to sound like other folks, we are starting to run the same negative stuff,'' Obama

Now he comes right out and admits he's been negative, like a typical politician.

Foot, meet mouth.

by BPK80 2008-04-29 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously?
Typical politicians don't admit mistakes. Obama isn't perfect, but he also isn't typical.
by proseandpromise 2008-04-29 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously?

True. He's almost become President on the lightest resume since the current occupant of the White House. It may be a trend in the making, but it's still not typical.

by dark1p 2008-04-29 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously?

Troll

by proseandpromise 2008-04-29 12:36PM | 0 recs
Where is the media coverage of this?

He needs to go public..

He needs to do a press conference..

Seriously.. this is nothing, he needs to pull all of his hit pieces, and send retractions to the people he sent them to.  He should buy TV time and do some spots.. he certainly has the money..

This is an important message..

He needs to do a LOT more..

by architek 2008-04-29 12:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously?

Telling the truth is now trolling? the Illinois State Senate meets 55 days out of the year. obama was in the US senate two years before he announced. He effectively had 3.5 years of legislative experience in total before announcing. He has no personal accomplishments that benefit other people after he graduates from law school. He wasn't lead attorney on significant cases. He  didn't write any ground breaking legal briefs. He didn't win any precedent setting cases. In fact, he didn't really win any cases. He got nothing whatsoever done the first five years he was in the Illinois senate, and for the three years he's been in the US senate, he's only gotten two bills passed that he wrote. Clinton, in her seven years, has got 19 bills that she wrote passed. He has no executive experience or exposure to executive experience. Clinton was a dominant administration presense on both development and execution of strategy in both Arkansas and DC. She ran numerous projects for Bill's administrations, and had genuine successes in her own right while he was governor and president. None of that can be said for Obama.

Yes, he has the lightest resume, by far, of any candidate in my lifetime to make it to the final lap.

by Little Otter 2008-04-29 12:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously?

This wasn't an open thread.  The comment thread here was about negative/positive politics and Obama owning up to his negativity.  "Experience" is way out of left field and off topic.  It was a troll comment.

by proseandpromise 2008-04-29 01:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously?

By your standards, vote for McCain. He has loads of experience over either Democrat.

by mikeinsf 2008-04-29 01:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously?

You are wrong about her senate experience - she and Obama are basically 'average in relation to peers' in most bill sponsorship measures.  I know ones she voted to pass:

invasion of Iraq
Kyle lieberman
and, ones she did not vote for:

Levin Amendment
bill to ban cluster bombs
and skipped vote on granting telecoms immunity

by mariannie 2008-04-29 09:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously?

You're wrong, everything I said was acccurate. Whether you like it or not.

I know lots of bills that Obama skipped to - you want to talk about what a coward he is? If Kyl Lieberman is so bad, why wasn't your guy on the phone begging Reid to delay the vote while he made it back? LOL

by Little Otter 2008-04-29 09:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously?

ok so when a politician is telling you the truth
you shun him

but when a politician lies to you  its the greatest thing you ever heard ?  

I mean come on you just attacked someone for telling the truth ?? so what would you say if he told you he never went negative? or when he did he was sleep deprived ? then will you lay off the attacks ??

by wellinformed 2008-04-29 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

Sounds like he read that Karl Rove memo.

by Zebra01 2008-04-29 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

This means Obama is doomed. I'm not sure how, but this is a bad thing. It always is. There will be a diary on the rec list about how Obama has always been negative, nothing will change, he's doomed, he can't win in november, he's racist, something like that.

I for one am very happy. This has worked for Obama all along, and refocusing on the positive should wrap this thing up nicely.

by BlueGAinDC 2008-04-29 11:54AM | 0 recs
Unfiltered spin

The uncritical recitation of a politician's talking points is something we expect from the mainstream media, but not from MYDD.  This post is a disappointment.

by DaveOinSF 2008-04-29 11:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Unfiltered spin

Have you even read the post? Seriously. Have you? Because I make clear that if Obama is pledging to go positive, it has to be his whole campaign. To that end, I said I'm not holding my breath. But apparently that's not a critical read of what Obama's doing...

by Jonathan Singer 2008-04-29 12:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Unfiltered spin

Jonathan, it might be worth mentioning that Obama seems to be following the advice laid out in Rove's memo, which was published yesterday, I believe, in one or more major media outlets.

by TexasDarlin 2008-04-29 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Unfiltered spin

no the memo says something different. this is incorrect. rove is irrelevant.

by Trey Rentz 2008-04-29 01:09PM | 0 recs
You act

You act as if this this is a discussion of a legitimate campaign strategy.  It does not even occur to you whether this is spin itself - a continuation of the strategy of painting his opponent as a negative campaigner.

by DaveOinSF 2008-04-29 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: You act

Got it. So if Obama goes negative, he's going negative. But if Obama goes positive, he's going negative.

by Jonathan Singer 2008-04-29 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: You act

Um, no. I think the general idea was that Obama supporters accept everything Obama and his campaign says as Gospel, with no critical filters whatsoever. One large example is the acceptance of his campaign's spin on FL and MI, in ignorance of the actual rules of the DNC regarding situations like those. Another is the acceptance of the famous 2002 anti-war speech, that was not recorded nor covered by any local newspaper at the time. And was contradicted by Obama himself in 2004. And he also admitted in 2006 that he couldn't blame Senators who voted for the Iraq resolution because he didn't know what he would have done in their shoes--before he blamed Clinton for the Iraq resolution in 2007.

The problem here isn't that Obama is a politician and does and says what politicians do and say. It's that some of his followers refuse to believe he's a politician. And he very much is, with a vengence.

by dark1p 2008-04-29 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: You act

Are you really suggesting that Obama didn't give that speech? Ugh.

by mikeinsf 2008-04-29 01:38PM | 0 recs
No

He's not going positive...he's SAYING he's going positive.  You just completely buy into his claims that what he SAYS are an accurate reflection of what he DOES.

by DaveOinSF 2008-04-29 12:50PM | 0 recs
Re: No

Read the post, dude.  Singer didn't say that Obama actually WAS going positive; he said it would be a good strategy.

by ashriver 2008-04-29 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: No

But where's the evaluation of whether SAYING he's going positive is itself the strategy?

by DaveOinSF 2008-04-29 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: No

This is a good example of how the myDD comment threads are getting ridiculous.  On my reading, Mr. Singer has brought up an interesting topic of discussion that has relevance beyond the Obama-Clinton primary fight.  Is it a good strategy to go positive?  It seems to be right in myDD's sweet spot, as a general discussion of political campaign tactics in the modern era.  And yet the comment thread is getting bogged down by swipes at Obama.  I'm only a third of the way through the thread, but I've already heard that Obama is running the most negative Dem campaign in history, I've heard details of all the negative attacks he has run, and now I've heard that his even saying that he wants to start running a positive campaign is in itself a cynical political ploy and essentially a negative attack itself.  Why can't we just discuss the issue at hand?  I, for one, think Mr. Singer has a good point. There have been two points in this campaign, during two separate debates, when Clinton has taken the high road and praised Obama, and in both cases, I thought it was excellent political strategy.  As an Obama supporter, I was upset that Obama couldn't do the same ("You're likeable enough" really sucked and could've cost him New Hampshire--and three months of primary fighting.)  

As a lurker for many years on myDD, I have benefited greatly from the quality discussions of politics and campaigning, and I can't wait for the primary to be over so we can hopefully come back together and have some of those quality discussions once again.  Whether the nominee is Clinton or Obama, I plan to support him or her with money, time, and whatever else I can muster.  I hope myDD is a place where such sentiments prevail again.  

by ankylosaurus 2008-04-29 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: No

The post is uncritical fluffing.  His candidate says he's going positive.  The author then wonders "Hmm, what would the political implications of a candidate going positive".  If the candidate said "my farts smell like gingerbread", I fully expect to see a diary wondering aloud as to the political implications of a candidate's farts smelling like gingerbread.

by DaveOinSF 2008-04-29 02:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Unfiltered spin

pay no attention to that guy Jonathan

they are trained to attack any Diary that mentions Obama that does not have the words: SEXIST MUSLIM RACSIST LIAR MEDIA BIAS BUS INEXPERIENCED THROW FLORIDA RACE CARD UNDER PASTOR MICHAGAN

by wellinformed 2008-04-29 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Unfiltered spin

Haha...  We should check FactHub to get some unbiased views! It has the word 'fact' right in the title. That's what MyDD is about.

by recusancy 2008-04-29 12:04PM | 0 recs
Going Positive

He got down in the mud.  It might be to late, it might not, but he'll have start immediately.

by venavena 2008-04-29 11:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive


The air is simply going out of the campaign on strategic limitations and failures.

Tactical changes are fun, but they're desperate at this point.  I'm looking at all the "but we got the delegates, Clinton can't win" Couéisms by supporters and it's pretty sad.

Technical wins are not necessarily wins in politics.

by killjoy 2008-04-29 11:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

Wow, you are deep!

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-04-29 11:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive
Hillary lost 11 straight and had 2 MAJOR shake ups. Obama has lost 1 straight and is talking about picking his campaign back up from the mud. No shake ups. No major string of losses. No sound losses. No new news (just more Wright! Wright!). The air is hardly "going out of the campaign."
by proseandpromise 2008-04-29 12:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

He isn't Hillary.  He's running on "vision" and fresh start claims.  She's been running on hardness, survival, and overcoming illusions.
by killjoy 2008-04-29 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

You said "hardness."

Sorry.

Now this from a politico.com article, "GOP plans half-million hit on Obama":

"But after weeks of controversies over his former pastor, his views of blue-collar voters and even the sincerity of his patriotism, Republicans now are ready to place a $500,000 bet that Obama will be a heavy burden on down-ballot Democrats."

There goes the vaunted 50-state down-ballot coattails Party-building strategy.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-04-29 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

I like the 50 State Strategy in principle.  The reality is that it can succeed too well.  When deep Red State Republicans collapse as badly as they are doing now, the results stand to lard up the Party with too many elected conservatives and opportunists.  
by killjoy 2008-04-29 12:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

Ironic since going negative was his decision back before Iowa when he wasn't getting traction any other way...

It was Hillary who was initially trying to avoid it until Obama and Edwards started to go harshly negative...

A point I am sure Obama has conveniently forgotten!

by SaveElmer 2008-04-29 12:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive
not disagreeing with you but I am curious where did you get this info ?
can you link please thanks ?
by wellinformed 2008-04-29 01:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

The notion that at worst, the Obama campaign only started negative campaigning recently (there are still some, like my mother-in-law, who insist he's never been negative...) is one of the most successful political spins ever.

by ahw 2008-04-29 12:09PM | 0 recs
Suggestion to Obama

Instead of "going positive"

how about

"getting real" ?

How about, instead of constantly talking about the need to talk about issues, you actually just.. talk about issues instead?

And when you do..

How about, instead of simply listing them, you actually tell us how you would address them, and why?

It's true that more fluff will work better for Barack than the character destruction he has been devoted to for the past seven weeks (anyone notice that Barack is once again following Karl Rove's "advice" to the Tee?) - but honestly at this point I think people feel it's past time to see some substance from you, not just more fluff.

by bobbank 2008-04-29 12:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Suggestion to Obama

Yes, if you ignore all the town hall meetings, all the positions on barackobama.com, all the policy documents, and everything else that Obama has put out, then I suppose you could think that Obama might be missing some substance.

And of course someone could say the same thing about Clinton if one ignored the same things from her.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-04-29 06:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive
Another example would be the 1994 AZ race for Governor. Eddie Basha won the primary by staying relentlessly positive, thus providing a contrast with the rest of the Democratic field.

Problem was, he stuck to that against the incumbent (criminal / pardoned by Clinton) Symington, who went relentlessly negative against Basha. Basha refused to respond and lost to an arguably weaker candidate.

Lesson 1: Staying positive can be tremendously limiting.
Lesson 2: Saving a future president's life pays dividends.
by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-04-29 12:14PM | 0 recs
Passive Aggressive

Perhaps positive works only if it's passive aggression, as Obama has practiced throughout the entire campaign. The Wyden example is classic passive aggression because you essentially ignore your opponent in the face of rank pettiness to the point of holding ice cream (!) socials....

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-04-29 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

All of you folks who think BO was first or worst with the negativity are hilarious, and pun is intended.

More on point with this diary, I really do wonder how it will work to finally ignore her negativity and just campaign.

I have been using my usually republican brother as my measuring stick.  He supported Bush2 heavily twice.  He could not particularly care one way or the other about social issues except that he is catholic and staunchly anti-abortion.  The thing is he is also greedy enough about fiscal issues that he will put them ahead of the only social issue (abortion) that he even cares about.

I was really happy to learn a couple of months ago that he was going to vote Obama.  He sees McCain as destroying the economy, continuing the Iraq war, and starting a new war in Iran...all pretty accurate observations.

When asked about Hillary, he simply says she "is an order of magnitude worse than any of the other candidates" and he would literally never vote for her.  

As for Obama, he says, "look, I don't agree with every thing he says, but I will give him a chance...he seems a lot more sane than the other two".

The only other interesting thing my brother said recently is that none of "the Rovian style HRC attack...and believe me I know them because I helped pay for them and cheered them on for 8 years while supporting Bush" matter to him at all.  The only thing he is disapointed about is that Barack did not respond better.  

My best interpretation of what a better response would be to my republican brother I think would have been a real attack against HRC...but I am not sure if that's what he meant, and I am glad BO has not stooped to her level.  She lives in the muck and knows it well.  Barack gains nothing by accepting her rock bottom standards.  He is far better at being a motivator, not a divider.

Me, I think BO is so much more clearly on higher ethical ground than HRC that he should go all positive.  She can never live on a positive campaign, which is why she was losing miserably until she went to her current scorched earth campaign policy.

Oh, and one final thing, the other 5 members of my family (don't worry there are several dozen democrats too) all agree with my brother, who I dialog with more often.  Not one of them could ever consider vote for HRC or any other Clinton under any circumstance, but they are all open to considering BO.  

by mattjfogarty 2008-04-29 12:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

That's a funny anecdote re: your brother because my hard-line Republican friends think McCain is a heretic and an apostate. One of them would rather vote for Hillary. If you look at the Ann Coulters, the Tony Blankleys, even the Pat Buchanans, they would rather have Hillary in office to McCain.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-04-29 12:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

so?  the empirical evidence indicates differently.  and your brother is as much a victim of the media's propaganda as everyone else who's not fact-checking the crap coming out of the "news" networks right now.  so he can think whatever he likes; it doesn't mean he's correct.

by nance 2008-04-29 12:35PM | 0 recs
Please....

don't spout crap.

Paul Lukasiak (NOT a member of any lunatic fringe group) reported in Firedoglake about 2 weeks ago (please note the second paragraph):

"Is it a timing thing? Because all the Democrats, including Obama, did whatever they could to "scorch earth" Hillary's chances starting in September. I don't know if people just forget about it, or don't think it matters, but Hillary Clinton was running a relentlessly positive, issue oriented campaign through last September -- in fact all the candidates were up until that point. But no one was getting any real traction -- Hillary's numbers went up all summer, and Obama's went down, Edwards couldn't get media and languished in third place, and there were another half -dozen "WHO?" candidates.

Running positive against Clinton wasn't working, so everyone, including Obama (except for Richardson) went negative on her -- attacking her relentlessly to drive up her negatives so they would have a shot.

So is it just the timing? Or have people forgotten about that.

And, when it comes to "scorched earth" campaign tactics, nothing beats the "swift-boating" of the Clinton on the race issue in South Carolina by the Obama campaign and its supporters. And it was "swift-boating", it was a big fat lie that Clinton was running a racist campaign, and the accusation made no sense; given the demographics of South Carolina, why would Clinton choose to start running racist then?

So again, I ask, have people just forgotten how we got where we are, or is it a question of timing? Is it okay to pull sh*t early in a primary season, but not later because of the potential impact it will have on the general election?"

by CoyoteCreek 2008-04-29 12:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Please....

Just more of Mr. Lukasiak's OPINION...NOT fact at all - this comment has been played out on many many pro-Hillary blogs.

by mariannie 2008-04-29 10:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive


Well, yes.  Obama is more of a conservative, and your family realizes it.  It's a general recognition among Republicans and Republican leaners.

Obama's "higher ethical ground" is based on selective outrage, selective memory, and revisionism.  Now that Saddam Hussein no longer exists, it's a cheap conceit universal among Obama supporters that he never mattered in the first place.  Which is a total lie about where we were and what the debate was in 2002.  That sort of thing is par for the course.

by killjoy 2008-04-29 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

ok are you saying we were right to  go to Iraq ?

oh god please don't tell me you thought Clinton was right voting for the war ?  omg  I hope i misread it

by wellinformed 2008-04-29 01:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

I think you read that right.  A of people are OK with Hillary voting for the war because they were duped, too.

by mikeinsf 2008-04-29 01:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive


I'm not as (self)righteous as you, though I was opposed to it all from its first suggestion.

I view that vote as an equivocal action.  

by killjoy 2008-04-29 03:11PM | 0 recs
He's got a week.

Obama is in a box with Wright. If Wright comes back at him (and he just may), the story stays alive and threatens not only to dampen Obama's African-American turnout in North Carolina, but possibly further drive whites to Clinton.

He is in a tough spot right now. This option seems as good as any.

by Bob Johnson 2008-04-29 12:27PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

Wow, you're being honest about your candidate: how refreshing!

Obama's response to Wright could be potentially to whites or blacks. His remarks today cut it close among blacks, and just may tamp down black turnout or cause (gasp!) a partial defection to Hillary.

He is definitely walking the tightrope over Niagara Falls. Hope (hope!) he's got his barrel.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-04-29 12:41PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

I think Wright is a problem because people will not try to understand his positioning. It's one that can be painted very black and white and used effectively against Obama.

However, I'm not so concerned about the black vote (who is rather well informed) defecting in any substantial numbers. I'm always open to solid proof regarding the situation though.

by alex100 2008-04-29 12:45PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

If Obama threw Wright under the bus, we would have to wait for the numbers from NC to judge fairly if some blacks stayed home or voted for Hillary. That is my sinking suspicion; there's not anything empirical behind it.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-04-29 12:49PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

Na, he didn't throw wright under the bus, but he's saying pretty clearly he doesn't like the spectacle and I think that speaks well of him.

by Trey Rentz 2008-04-29 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

Is anyone else tired of the phrase "throw... under the bus"?

by mikeinsf 2008-04-29 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

well, I think it's pretty funny at this point but I would have no problem with throwing the term "throw under the bus" under the bus. It must be a greasy fun mess down under there by now.

it just goes to show what a bunch of lemmings human beings are for using and reusing a certain framing.

by alex100 2008-04-29 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

so tell me about your sinking suspicion. For it to be true, what percentage of the electorate tomorrow should be black and what percentage of that subgroup must Obama lack in attaining to back up your assertion?

Just curious as I'd like to "measure" your suspicion.

by alex100 2008-04-29 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

I don't understand the question.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-04-29 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

give me the hard numbers that will prove your "suspicion" right.

What percentage of the electorate should be black (would prove that some blacks have been turned off no?). What percentage of the overall black vote would say that Wright hurt Obama.

You have two barometers to prove your "suspicion" right. give me the numbers so I can follow along your game.

by alex100 2008-04-29 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

You don't get what I'm saying. I'm saying that the way Obama handles Wright could determine the way blacks vote. If Obama throws Wright under the bus, the African American vote for Obama could be impacted. Perhaps to the tune of 40% of the black vote. So of the 30%-50% that blacks make up of the NC Dem primary electorate, Hillary could get 40% of those depending on the ultimate disposition of the Obama-Wright dynamic.

Capiche?

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-04-29 02:58PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

i got what you were saying. I wanted to see what your unit of measurement would be because otherwise, it's a bunch of hot air.

so, now I've seen your unit of measurement and I think it's laughable.

by alex100 2008-04-29 04:54PM | 0 recs
I am honest about both candidates.

I am not a rabid Obama backer. I like him more than I like Clinton, but neither are are my ideal candidate.

by Bob Johnson 2008-04-29 12:55PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

how ever Obama handles wright won't effect the Obama's African American turnout. We stood by Clinton thru Lewisky what makes you think we would abandon Obama over rev wright ? he can shoot him in the back of the head on live TV we still would have Obama's Back so please don't assume like you "in touch" with the African american community in North Carolina  or anywhere  because i don't pretend to be in touch with the community of idiots, so I won't assume to know I would just ask you so I can make a informed statement from the source  

by wellinformed 2008-04-29 01:36PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

The source:

http://skepticalbrotha.wordpress.com/

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-04-29 01:52PM | 0 recs
Re: He's got a week.

umm  

I see the blog of that "skepitical brother" but

trust me understand he has extreme views like right he does not represent mainstream black america

by wellinformed 2008-04-29 04:31PM | 0 recs
So BO finally admits he's been the negative one?

Paul Lukasiak (NOT a member of any lunatic fringe group) reported in Firedoglake about 2 weeks ago (please note the next to last paragraph):

"Is it a timing thing? Because all the Democrats, including Obama, did whatever they could to "scorch earth" Hillary's chances starting in September. I don't know if people just forget about it, or don't think it matters, but Hillary Clinton was running a relentlessly positive, issue oriented campaign through last September -- in fact all the candidates were up until that point. But no one was getting any real traction -- Hillary's numbers went up all summer, and Obama's went down, Edwards couldn't get media and languished in third place, and there were another half -dozen "WHO?" candidates.

Running positive against Clinton wasn't working, so everyone, including Obama (except for Richardson) went negative on her -- attacking her relentlessly to drive up her negatives so they would have a shot.

So is it just the timing? Or have people forgotten about that.

And, when it comes to "scorched earth" campaign tactics, nothing beats the "swift-boating" of the Clinton on the race issue in South Carolina by the Obama campaign and its supporters. And it was "swift-boating", it was a big fat lie that Clinton was running a racist campaign, and the accusation made no sense; given the demographics of South Carolina, why would Clinton choose to start running racist then?

So again, I ask, have people just forgotten how we got where we are, or is it a question of timing? Is it okay to pull sh*t early in a primary season, but not later because of the potential impact it will have on the general election?"

by CoyoteCreek 2008-04-29 12:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

positive is what I prefer to see from any candidate. I hope to see 100% of that from obama but like Singer, I won't hold my breath.

it's about time negative campaigning gets thrown under the bus. Enough of this train wreck. Right the wrong! Si se puede!

by alex100 2008-04-29 12:42PM | 0 recs
I am getting weaker so nobody attacks me ok?

by TaiChiMaster 2008-04-29 12:55PM | 0 recs
Re: I am getting weaker so nobody attacks me ok?

Tai Chi is all about using the force of your attacker against them.
And then I will bow.

positive campaign.
Deadly effect.

by Trey Rentz 2008-04-29 01:06PM | 0 recs
Polar bears....

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/federal-jud ge-orders-polar-bear-decision/n200804291 64009990005

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/supreme-cou rt-ruling-on-kentucky/n20080416181009990 216

You know, at this point all I want to hear is something meaningful (to me) from either candidate.  It's been a long time since that has happened.  It may be the nature of this campaign, or the nature of American campaigns in general, but the only thing I can recall of substance at this point is Hillary's nuclear option on Korea and Obama's not supporting mandates with healthcare.  Meanwhile, I don't know if the wolf hunt is going on or the status of polar bears, or how many prisoners are going to die horrible deaths at the hands of the state, and no one seems to want to address anything that means anything to me.

I don't care about Wright, I don't care about Tuzla, I don't care who is elite and who is not, which candidate is richer or poorer.  I do care about these bears.  I do care that our criminal justice system verges on barbaric.  I care about people not able to afford food right now.  

Either candidate would win me over in a second at this point by a clean, well stated, commitment to any of the things I value, but that does not seem to be happening.  The sniping, the pickiness, the stupidity just goes on and on and on.

by mady 2008-04-29 12:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

We've started to run negative stuff. Is this gy awake.

by ottovbvs 2008-04-29 01:02PM | 0 recs
I disagree

I disagree, Jon. He doesn't need to turn to Hillary and say - "I'm going positive, how about you?"

Instead, he can just go positive and honestly? Sort of ignore Clinton when she's doing what she's doing on the negative side.

IF anything, talk is cheap. I wouldn't put much stock in someone who felt they had to challenge the other senator to go positive.

Simply put, he can state what he has to say in a positive way and keep things focussed on the real issues.

Case in point? The gas tax!

Obama is in favor of a windfall tax on the Oil companies who have made massive mega-billions off the current gas insanity.

Clinton, on the other hand, wants to shut down the federal excise infrastructure streams.

What a night and day situation.

Obama is saying "hey, lets look at the big picture here - we're all trying to get weaned from Saudi Arabia. so lets not shut down
the streams that help make us stronger,
and get us towards alternative energy"

The more clinton goes on about how Obama doesn't care about the working class bla bla, the more shrill she will appear and not to mention the simple fact that she's also essentialy siding with john mccain on this issue. her "windfall" tax is much different than we might think.

by Trey Rentz 2008-04-29 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

I was thinking about this yesterday, where he had lost that kind of belief that he really was running a trans-formative campaign.

If can do it I say he should. The worst thing that could happen if HRC continues to go full on negative? He loses the nom to Hillary. Who would not be the utter disaster McCain would be. Things wouldn't get better, but neither would they get much worse.

by MNPundit 2008-04-29 02:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Going Positive

This made me laugh:

So no doubt it would be a risky move for Obama to go all positive.

Risky?  A positive campaign?  How dare he?

After a decade plus of gotcha politics, you'd think this would be welcomed.

by chewie5656 2008-04-29 03:26PM | 0 recs
HRC's Response to Obama going positive

April 29, 2008
Clinton hits Obama directly in new ad
Posted: 08:21 PM ET

Clinton is out with a critical ad in Indiana and North Carolina.
(CNN) -- Hillary Clinton launched a new ad in North Carolina and Indiana Tuesday that directly criticizes Barack Obama's proposals to address the explosion in home foreclosures and rising gas costs.

The negative spot comes a week before both states' crucial May 6 primaries and specifically attacks Obama for not calling for a freeze on mortgage foreclosures and not supporting a suspension of the gas tax.

Clinton has called for a 90-day moratorium on home foreclosures and $30 billion for an Emergency Housing Fund. Obama has called for a $10 billion foreclosure prevention fund to help homeowners who are victims of mortgage fraud sell their homes or modify their loans, to avoid foreclosure and bankruptcy.

In response to rising gas costs, both McCain and Clinton have called for a suspension of the gas tax ahead of the summer driving season. McCain's plan would lift the 18.4 cents per gallon tax during peak summer travel months and would suspend the 24.4 cent diesel tax.

Clinton, who rejected a similar idea in 2000, said her plan is different from McCain's, claiming his proposal would cost the government up to $10 billion that would otherwise be used to improve roads. Clinton has said she'd make up for the lost revenue with a "windfall profits tax" on oil companies, meaning their profits over a certain amount would be subject to a 50 percent tax.

Obama does not support a suspension of the gas tax, which he described as a political scheme that would save the average driver $25 to $28. He's instead proposing a tax on oil companies to help low-income families pay energy bills.

"It's time for a president who's ready to take action now," the ad's announcer states.

(Full ad script after the jump)

by wellinformed 2008-04-29 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: HRC's Response to Obama going positive

Looks like Hillary's negatives will soon be hitting another record high.

by Kobi 2008-04-29 05:56PM | 0 recs
Cheap stunt by Obama

With 90% of the MSM attacking Hillary 24/7, "going positive" is little more than a cheap stunt.  Pretending to stay above the fray while his surrogates continue their relentless assault (fed, in part, directly by the Obama campaign), is profoundly hypocritical.

by dwmorris 2008-04-29 09:57PM | 0 recs

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