Open Thread
by Jonathan Singer, Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 08:28:58 PM EDT
Bumped - Todd
This is a fun one:
Consider this an open thread... What's on your mind?
Tags: John McCain, Open Thread (all tags)
Comments
Re: Open Thread
Obama's back up in Gallup tracking. Gallup poll numbers are back to or near pre-Wright numbers. The numbers are a bit volatile, but the trend seems clear.
03/22 +3O
03/21 +2C
03/20 +5C
03/19 +7C
03/18 +3C
03/17 +3C
03/16 +2C
03/15 +3O
03/14 +6O
Re: Open Thread
What's on my mind...Hmmm....
Y'know, if I were a candidate and I were:
a) hopelessly behind in the delegate count.
b) hopelessly behind in the popular vote
c) hopelessly behind in number of states won and
d) broke
I'd probably drop out of the race.
Then again, if I also had no better judgement than to have Howard Wolfson, Mark Penn and James Carville doing my heavy-lifting, I probably wouldn't have the sense to see that my candidacy was doomed.
Re: Open Thread
Obama supporter Tony McPeak is willfully misinterpreting Clinton's innocuous comments wishing that one day there might be an election where candidates are evaluated on their merits and not on media-manufactured distractions -- and saying that Clinton was succumbing to McCarthyism, because he said that the two candidates would love their countries, etc. The reporter who covered the story decided that the two candidates in his figure of speech must be Hillary and McCain, and hence he had to be intimating that Obama didn't love his country. Of course, it's whipping around the most gullible precincts of the blogosphere, like TPM. It's a joke. It's the stupidest development since Kos pushed the darkened photo garbage. I've had it. Livid. Seriously, finally, had it. For fuck's sake.
Re: Open Thread
I am a veteran that supported Bill in the nineties, but he really bummed me out this week. I heard the whole speech, and I knew what kind of mind game he was giving us at the event.
I simply can't defend him anymore, and it is too bad that HRC is defined by her husband.
Now I read this in today's Washington Post : http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2008/03/21/AR2008032102989. html?wpisrc=newsletter
AND see this footage of HRC during her trip to Bosnia : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP -c
Can somebody explain this contradiction to me? I don't know how I can defend her anymore?
I don't want to sound like I have given up, as I don't want McCain to control our Supreme Court . . . but how can HRC answer the Bosnia thing & her husband's gaffe??
Re: Open Thread
I respect that you were actually there, but what I hear is a clumsy attempt to defend Obama and call for everyone's patriotism to be acknowledged, whatever two candidates end up competing. It's a call for seriousness rather than distraction.
Re: Open Thread
I'd explain, but I am currently pinned down by sniper fire.
Video: Al Gore Rhythm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YZ0YfPqa t4&eurl=http://www.politicalcortex.c om/story/2008/3/21/152726/382
By LadyInBlack
03/21/2008
I wrote this last year right after Al Gore appeared on Capitol Hill to give testimony about the effects of climate change and how the climate crisis is now and will effect this planet. Today is one year since that testomony wherein he explained that the Arctic ice cap should it all go will not come back in any timeframe relevant to the human species.
~~~~~~
80% greenhouse gas emission reductions by 2050 are not good enough. Scientists have claimed that summer ice in the Arctic may well be gone by 2013, and the Arctic may be open water by 2030. By my calculations 2030 comes BEFORE 2050. I think the oil, coal, and automobile industries have been given a free ride for long enough. We are burning a hole in the top of our world. I think the urgency and importance of addressing that far exceeds their need to keep their wallets full.
Re: Open Thread
I am curious if all of the people who are calling for the nomination fight to continue until "all votes are counted." Felt the same way in 2000 or 2004..
I bet they didn't.
The call for all the votes to be counted
in 2000 and 2004 was for the White House, and it was between a Democrat and a Republican who didn't want all the votes to be counted. This is a primary between two Democratic candidates. One of whom, to the everlasting shame of the Democratic party, still doesn't want all of the votes to be counted, or even be cast.
Re: The call for all the votes to be counted
My point is this: in the primary it is almost never the case that all of the votes are relevant and this is the first year I remember people complaining about that...which tells me that it isn't about "all the votes being counted" but rather about the candidate they are supporting.
I find it to be vastly hypocritical when people claim it is suddenly important THIS year for the for the primary contest to continue through all of the states.
Obama Campaign: 99% Chance Singer is Shills for Us
March 22, 2008, Boulder, CO.:
Bradley Smith, 19, a student at CU Boulder and a volunteer for the local Obama for President Campaign, claimed to a classmate while tapping a keg that there's a 99% chance that Jonathan Singer is a shill for the Obama campaign. David Plouffe, Obama's campaign manager, refused to comment on the allegations. Mark Penn, Clinton's chief strategist, released a memo today on the campaign's Web site which analyzed Singer's posts on myydd.com over the last year. Using sophisitcated regression analysis, he writes that "the Obama campaign's reliance on elite bloggers continues to be demonstrated by Mr. Singer's posts. Our models indicate that after 10 straight losses by Obama to Hillary, Mr. Singer will write a post claiming that Hillary should drop out because Obama won Mississippi and Wyoming, states which are vital to his General Election strategy. And that if Bush can disenfranchise voters in Florida so can we."
Re: Obama Campaign: 99% Chance Singer is Shills fo
Did Penn prepare one of these "sophisticated regression analysis" for Jerome's posts?
When Deaths of U. S. Military Persons in Iraq ...
When the total deaths of U. S. Military Persons in Iraq becomes 4000---anytime from tomorrow to probably within the next few weeks ---(How I wish it were not to be)---
How should the event be marked in the U. S.?
How should our nation as a whole recognize the 4000 figure?
How should our individual Democratic presidential candidates take note?
How should the Democratic leadership recognize the 4000 deaths?
This coming tragic event has been on my mind in the last few weeks, and now that the number is so very close, I felt compelled to call it to the attention of MyDD readers/thinkers and ask for a serious consideration of this subject.
Re: When Deaths of U. S. Military Persons in Iraq
I've been wondering the same thing. I was appalled when it hit 3,000, and now it's approaching 4,000.
Then there are the Iraqi civilians that have died also...
Re: When Deaths of U. S. Military Persons in Iraq
We should mark this event the same way the US did during WWII, as well as the 40,000 mark, and the 400,000 mark - by not paying attention to it at all.
Certainly if the US bellyached about every single thousand mark during WWII the public would have asked the US to surrender to Germany before 1944.
Please, please stop all this whining about US military deaths in Iraq. During Clinton's peace years we lost more than 4300 military personnel, did anyone cry then? See http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2006/04 /new_york_times_not_truthful_no.html
Re: When Deaths of U. S. Military Persons in Iraq
I think it highly appropriate that the public be made aware of the costs of this war--both human and financial. As Bush and his supporters tout the benefits to American interests to be gleaned from the removal of Saddam from power and as Republican operatives seek to promote the perception that "the surge is working", it is incumbent upon all who favor a reasonable and benevolent US foreign policy to ask our leaders and our neighbors to question at what price we are buying any advantages that might accrue from our presence in Iraq. If such a reasoned cost-benefit analysis were conducted, it would seem likely that Americans would conclude that our foray into the Middle East is a horrid failure and would support withdrawal. Such an analysis would be impossible if we were to follow your advice to ignore the casualties that stem from our invasion.
Chickens come home to roost in context
A segment of the speech from the guy who allegedly said America deserved 9/11:
"Visitors, I often give little faith footnotes, so that our members don't lose sight of the big picture, let me give you a faith footnote. Turn to your neighbor and say, "Faith footnote." [Voices: "Faith footnote"]
[Begin faith footnote]
I heard Ambassador Peck on an interview yesterday. Did anybody else see him or hear him, he was on Fox News. This is a white man, and he was upsetting the Fox News commentators to no end. He pointed out, (Did you see him, John?) --a white man-- he pointed out-- an ambassador-- that what Malcolm X said when he got silenced by Elijah Mohammad was in fact true, America's chickens are coming home to roost.
We took this country, by terror, away from the Sioux, the Apache, the Arrowak (phonetic) the Comanche, the Arapajo, the Navajo. Terrorism--we took Africans from their country to build our way of ease and kept them enslaved and living in fear. Terrorism. We bombed Grenada and killed innocent civilians -- babies, non-military personnel. We bombed the black civilian community of Panama with Stealth Bombers and killed unarmed teenagers, and toddlers, pregnant mothers and hard working father. [fullest voice] We bombed Khadafi, his home and killed his child. Blessed be they who bash your children's head agains the rocks.
[fullest voice] We bombed Iraq, we killed unarmed civilians trying to make a living. We bombed the plant in Sudan to payback for the attack on our embassy -- killed hundreds of hard working people --mothers and fathers, who left home to go that day, not knowing they'd never get back home. [Even fuller voice] We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye. Kids playing in the playground, mothers picking up children after school -- civilians not soldiers. People just trying to make it day by day. We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and South Africa and now we are indignant? Because the stuff we have done overseas is brought back into our own front yard.
America's chickens are coming home, to roost. Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred, and terrorism begets terrorism.
[lower voice] A White ambassador said that, y'all, not a black militant. Not a Reverend who preaches about racism, an ambassador whose eyes are wide open, and whose trying to get us to wake up, and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said that the people we have wounded don't have the military capability we have, but they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them, and we need to come to grips with that.
Let me stop my faith footnote right there, and ask you to think about that over the next few weeks if God grants us that many days. Turn back to your neighbor, and say, "Footnote is over." [Voices: "Footnote is over."]
[End Faith Footnote]
[Gentle voice] Now, now. C'mon back to my question to the Lord, "What should our response be right now. In light of such an unthinkable act. I asked the Lord that question Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday."
Re: Open Thread
i would just like to say i am dismayed at the new ads on the site. i realize it is a necessity to maintain the site, and the political ads are fitting, but snorg tees? i feel that it degrades the quality of the site. that's just my two lincolns.
Re: Open Thread
flipyrwhig,
I'm an Obama guy, and I agree with you about the McPeak stuff, it's nonsense. The conversation in this primary campaign has gone completely off the rails. I doubt that we will learn anything new and interesting and vital to the national interest between now and August. It's getting embarrassing. This is democracy? Oy...
I hope they don't teach little kids about this election in the future. I'd like to see Howard Dean or somebody stand up and tell the contestants and their campaign staffs to address real issues or STFU.
Re: Open Thread
Actually, I think this primary race would be excellent as a teaching tool.
It shows how a race can degrade from a civil, respectable one (between the Dems), into a race revolving around gotcha moments and personal smearing.
Excellent examples in this race of what happens when frontrunners fall behind, and how they deal with it. Quite the differences to point out too. Both candidates have stumbled and fallen out of favor at particular moments. How they dealt with it has been very different.
The Dems' presidential primary race this year would make an excellent teaching tool. As long as the teacher wasn't a die-hard partisan of one of the candidates.
The Repubs' primary would be informative too, in different ways. How the primary of a political party can revolve around bluster, ignorance and personal attacks from the very beginning, and produce an inherently unqualified candidate.
Re: Open Thread
Is anyone paying attention to this story as reported on Daily Kos? Its about Hillary outright lying about her experience in Bosnia and being caught in that lie by CBS file footage. Have a look by following the link. Its just goes to prove once again,that the woman is a liar. Her foreign policy experience? Yeah, shaking hands and hugging children.....thats pretty much sums it up.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/22/ 211412/654/668/482425
Re: Open Thread
i take it from reading most of these comments that having already thrown the clintons under the bus for being racists, now they are going to trudge back, fetch the twitching body and throw it back under the bus for being one of the red scare hoodlums who persecuted innocent and less so innocent people in a drunken haze of pure lust for dictatorial type powers.....
yes, ok. i voted for the clinton campaign twice in the general elections, i voted for kerry and i have voted for every democrat ever nominated in my lifetime.
one of the common refrains of the o'cultists is that the clinton campaign will do anything to get elected..yuck...that offends my high values..i would never vote for anyone like that
the obama people are more than happy to toss the clintons under the bus repeatedly, hell they even tossed obamas grandmother under the bus
shucks, the only person obama adamantly refuses to throw under the bus is his deranged preacher who said we, as a nation, with due aforethought and due diligence, tried to infect the black community with AIDS.
what next? we have the clintons down as racists and red scare thugs, what is next? can we somehow associate bill or hill with fascism somehow?
i see where 20% of dem voters for obama and clinton state they will not vote for obama or clinton, each group would go to mccain.
those 20% of obama voters are, dare i say this aloud, not the folks who have supported dems in the past..for whatever reason
the 20% of clinton voters most certainly are former dem voters, they represent the core of the party..
you do the math and yes a large part of that vote will comprise of whites the 20% of clinton voters who would go for mccain...well, ok you can either assign that to pure racism or else consider there are a bunch of us old coots out here who have loyally been there for the democratic (small d intentionally) movement for a long time, and we do not like people damning our nation and accusing us of doing things not done
we have, as a nation, done many sad and bad things, we do not need to add to the stack a bald faced damnable lie and you should not curse your nation
obama will do anything to get elected...he will toss bill clinton under the bus for anything
i am sure there must be a pic of bill with a swastika in the background, go ahead, blame him for the Holocaust too while you are at it you insufferable bunch of twits
this is the new politics? will do anything to get elected? pot meet kettle
Re: Open Thread
Digby has an interesting post about Spitzer, and the republican connections to his prostitute scandal.
Of course, none of us should be surprised.
Almost four months before Gov. Eliot Spitzer resigned in a sex scandal, a lawyer for Republican political operative Roger Stone sent a letter to the FBI alleging that Spitzer ''used the services of high-priced call girls'' while in Florida.
The letter, dated Nov. 19, said Miami Beach resident Stone learned the information from ''a social contact in an adult-themed club.'' It offered one potentially identifying detail: The man in question hadn't taken off his calf-length black socks ``during the sex act.''
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/e verybody-must-get-stoned-by-dday-see.htm l
It's the environment, stupid!
For those on either side thinking about a McCain vote or an abstention if their candidate loses:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23764861/
McCain this year has a LCV rating that is 60 or so points lower than either C or O.
Why can't we all just grow up?
Ya know, a big part of the problem here is that we Democrats seem to be constitutionally unable to realize that supporting one candidate doesn't mean one must trash, disparage, and otherwise piss all over the other candidate. In every election since I was old enough to vote, all of our prospective nominees have been imperfect, both as candidates and as human beings. It is also the case that none of them has been the devil incarnate. That hasn't changed in this election cycle. If we don't start acting like grownups, supporting our respective candidates with enthusiasm but without feeling the need to demonize the other candidate and his or her supporters, we are just going to hand the White House to our real enemies.
Sarah Jane Olsen
I see they let Sarah Jane Olsen out of prison and then threw her back in after wingnuts protested. Their excuse was that they'd made an error in calculating the time she had to serve.
This DOJ just makes the rules up as it goes along, I guess.
Speaking of the Justice Department, does anyone have any clear picture of what happened to the Qwest CEO Joe Nacchio. He was prosecuted for insider trading after he refused to allow the feds access to Qwest's customer records.
This appears to be a case that belongs in the same category with Don Siegelman.
Anti-war Protests
just cant seem to generate any media attention anymore. Part of it is because of the everybody knows syndrome. But a lot has to do with the visuals. Without hundreds of thousands people on the streets there just isn't enough visual input to back up a story.
Let me offer two images for "Mission Accomplished" day.
Hundreds of thousand flowers floating down the Potomac out to see as prayers for all those who have lost their lives.
Thousands of candle powered rice paper hot air balloons floating over the Mall at dusk. Representing prayers for those Americans who have lost their lives.
Re: Open Thread
It's time to take a moth-eaten myth out and give it a shakeup. The old chestnut that women will bite the bullet and vote for BO because of abortion, and because the Dem Party bosses support him is DOA.
Nothing has show women how ineffective, weak and unconcerned our Dem elected lawmakers are in supporting women's right to choose. For that matter, even after attaining a majority, they mostly sat back and let the minority Republicans have their way in everything. One of Speaker Nancy's first moves was to take impeachment off the table - Free ride for Bush/Cheney.
Early on when Roberts and Alito were proposed for the Supremes, most Dem Senators went along and voted for them with hardly a murmur. Even Pat Leahy of Vermont, who claimed he was a champ for women's rights, when he was running for reelection, bent over and spread them.
Women mostly get bupkiss from the Dems, yet women have been the most loyal voting bloc, the hardest workers and are still largely unrepresented. Events in this presidential primary have more than proven how the DNC has been the moving force to defeat HRC's bid to become the Dem nominee by promoting BO's campaign of misogyny and sexism.
Women have noted how many of the Dem leaders have done nothing to correct media reporting they know to be false. They have also noted how many of them actually pile on to criticize the Clinton campaign, echoing the media.
Enough! There is a limit to being constantly nice and dependable patsies. As more and more women and their supporters become aware of what is being chucked down their throats they are determined that since fairness does not prevail, they will vote McCain 19% or stay home 13%.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/
2008/03/keystone-democr.html
And this doesn't even count the number of disenfranchised voters who went out and voted for HRC in Florida and Michigan. BO has declared these votes to be null and void, with the dithering, idiotic backing of the DNC. They know BO has prevented any re-voting too.
While declaring that the Super Delegates must vote for the winners in their states, the DNC and BO campaign find it A- OK when NM Gov. Richardson, Senator Ted Kennedy and others ignore the vote of their states to support BO.
Plenty of women just are not going to vote for someone who has divided this country into little pieces: by gender, by age, by race, by religion and by claiming that all whites are typical and racists. Bye, bye DNC Party bosses - keep your penis rulz and false promises for the GE and McCain. You have no credibility left. You've let women down to often.
Re: Open Thread
Winning the middle is always the key to winning in November. HuffingKos is NOT the middle.
Obama has already lost the November election.
I guess you can choose to continue with him with that fact in mind. I am sorry that you are inconsiderate of the wants to actual blue and swing states.
It seems that moderate Dems may have to seek out a new home, if we are hijacked toward defeat in November.
ruun for your lives
Abandon all hope!!!
Maybe you should stand up and fight against the epubs and not just surrender.
Re: ruun for your lives
Maybe it would be even better to fight for what's best for the Democratic party. I'm sorry, but you want to put forth a candidate that ran up the score with red states.
The Obama folk always want to end the game before its over, although all of the rules are in their favor. Do you REALLY think an Obama nomination would be valid if held up by a popular-vote victory that does not include Michigan and Florida??? That includes losing NY, Cali., PA, Ohio, Texas (real vote)?
Again, winning the middle wins in November. Mccain is about as centrist as the GOP gets. An Obama end run manufactured by the HuffingKos wing of the party, will not play in the middle.
Hillary Clinton can capture the middle.
But suit yourselves. Just keep the whimpering down in November.
there
are no red states, or blue states. There is only United States!!!
Who gave you the sole authority on deciding whats best for the Democratic party??? Seriously, what the hell???
Harsh words for McCain/Airbus at my Union Hall
where we held a rally against the Air Force's tanker deal with Airbus. Governor Gregoire Senator Murray and Congressman Larson spoke to the rally.
Re: Harsh words for McCain/Airbus at my Union Hall
Lefty, I read about the rally and I think the case is a good one on the merits of it. But as for the web video, I think its silly. I'm neither French nor a francophile, but I do think this post, and the comments make a good case against Todd's reading of the video as a good one.
I think the silly attempt to substitute pseudo-xenophobia for a serious argument about trade and industrial policy is as pointless coming from the left as it does from the right. In fact, the ad does nothing to call into question the real culprit here, who is not McCain but the Boeing an other corporate executives who have run their companies badly and tried to rely on political connections rather than good R&D to get contracts and to rely on cutting wages and benefits to boost profits rather than developing new lines of production that would generate more employment.
I feel like this is another case of self-described progressives shying away from making a clear economic argument in favor of a "cultural" one.
What's on My Mind is how Trolls
are ruining MyDD. Clinton Diaries are zapped with the usual one line snotty commentary. It's become very tiresome, and old.
For a long time in DU, people were screaming that the forum was being ruined by the Obama Snot Brigade.
Same thing here.
For a long time in DU, people were screaming that the forum was being ruined by the Obama Snot Brigade.
Same thing here.
Re: Open Thread
UFCW Local 1776 Endorses Obama
"On Thursday, the Executive Board of the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) Local 1776, which represents 23,000 members throughout southeast, northeast and central Pennsylvania, northeast Maryland and southern New York, overwhelmingly approved its support for Senator Obama's candidacy in the Tuesday, April 22 Pennsylvania primary election."http://my.barackobama.com/page/community /post/caitlinharvey/gGBn53
Re: Open Thread
Let me give all an update of opinion from my little corner in Western MA. Had Easter dinner today with relatives, 4 of them well educated males all holding down great jobs. The conversation, of course, turned to politics. The 4 men declared that if Obama was nominated their votes would go to McCain. They believe that Obama is not a true patriot and they hate Hillary. When it was suggested that it was very important to cast a vote with the Supreme Court in mind, regardless of which one captured the nomination, they all insisted they would vote for McCain because he is a "true hero". I am afraid that this may play out nationally in the general when the GOP, should it be Obama, loops Rev Wright's speeches along with Michele Obama's comments and we will be saluting Pres. McBush come November. And this is coming from the liberal state of MA who elected a Romney and Deval Patrick (who is a washout by the way). Just a little observation from my corner of the world.
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