Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas, Ohio

Mason-Dixon, the favored pollster of MSNBC among others, has conducted its latest round of polling out of Ohio and Texas, and the numbers look a little like this (along the latest Pollster.com trend estimates from Ohio and Texas in parens):

Ohio

Hillary Clinton: 47 percent (49.8 percent)
Barack Obama: 43 percent (43.4 percent)

Texas

Barack Obama: 46 percent (47.5 percent)
Hillary Clinton: 45 percent (44.7 percent)

The leads of both candidates currently fall within each poll's margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points, underscoring the sense that we just don't entirely know the situation is going to play out in either state. Yes, the Pollster.com trend estimate has Clinton up 5.5 percentage points in Ohio and the Real Clear Politics average from the state puts Clinton's lead there at 5.9 percentage points, indicating that she has an advantage. But a lead of 5-6 points -- particularly one that has fallen from a dozen plus points in just the past few weeks -- is just not good enough to take to the bank.

Likewise, Obama's lead of a point -- or perhaps even two or three -- in Texas is illusory at this juncture. Certainly it's true that Obama has been coming on extremely strongly in the state, and that the unique rules seem to give him an advantage (both because of the allocation of delegates across state Senate districts and because of caucus held immediately after the primary). Nevertheless, this contest could still go in either direction.

Tuesday night should be a big night. A BIG night.

Tags: Democratic primaries, Ohio, ohio primary, texas, Texas primary (all tags)

Comments

70 Comments

Rumour has it..

..that his internals are relieving, and outside of the margin of error.  Unfortunately, a poll is still a poll.

by Setrak 2008-03-02 10:06AM | 0 recs
I think...

... he's using confidence as a strategy now. And that makes me very nervous.

Of couse, I was pessimistic about Virginia and Wisconsin, too, so what do I know.

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-02 10:19AM | 0 recs
Re: I think...

I thought he was crazy leaving Wisconsin so earkly and was absolutely certain Hillary would sneak a win by.

Shows how much I knew...

by Walt Starr 2008-03-02 10:26AM | 0 recs
Re: I think...

A campaign's not over till it's over.  There can only be good outcomes from the primary : the first female candidate or the first black one.  If Obama loses, he in fact wins, because he'll be able to fill the next four years with work and accomplishments and, come 2112, he'll nail it ... unless his wife thinks to run.

by Kathy G 2008-03-02 12:20PM | 0 recs
Re: I think...

This is a good, point and if Obama had been knocked out early I would have been frankly relieved to a certain degree (as an Obama supporter) but at this point after what he's done, I think it may be now or never: to use a poker term, after he survived Super Tuesday, I think he was effectively all in, (to use a political analogy, imagine in 1968 if RFK hadn't been shot, but also lost the nod, he wouldn't have been nearly as electric in 1972).

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 12:49PM | 0 recs
Re: I think...

I completely agree.  Those HRC supporters that want Obama to put Obama on hold for 4 or 8 years, and think that all of the good will this campaign has manufactured will still be there are deluding themselves.  This is his moment. We have to have the wisdom to 'strike the iron while it's hot', so to speak.  We can't be foolish and turn down this groundswell because of the feeling that 'Hillary deserves a turn'.  Has she been a decent public servant? Yes.  She would probably be a decent President, too, but there is NO WAY she can generate the kind of excitement and enthusiasm Obama is generating.  We as Democrats should use this excitement to our benefit while it is being offered to one of our own.

by ArkansasLib 2008-03-02 01:05PM | 0 recs
Re: I think...

"This is his moment. We have to have the wisdom to 'strike the iron while it's hot', so to speak.  We can't be foolish and turn down this groundswell because of the feeling that 'Hillary deserves a turn'."

Obama is inexperienced and unqualified to be president, and performance in the office will determine the long term effect of his candidacy, not faddish rock star crowds at rallies.

The immaturity of the view that this enthusiasm cannot last 4 years is frightening. No social change movement has fizzled out after a brief surge and accomplished anything. Inherent in this supposed analysis that the enthusiasm won't last is the fear that it really is an unsustainable flash in the pan, and will evaporate if it doesn't win right now. I believe this to be the case, and that's why I support Hillary, a long term worker and fighter for our principles. She is still receiving huge support even after 20 years of being villified beyond reason by the right AND the left, and had her campaign staff been more skillful at reaching out to supporters she would be way ahead now.

If the excitement and enthusiasm that characterizes the response to Obama cannot maintain itself over  a delay in it's instant gratification then it is no more substantial than the latest ipod marketing fad. The childishness of this phenomenon is rightfully suspect by those of us who have "experience" and perspective in the long term fight for improving our country.

by 07rescue 2008-03-02 01:24PM | 0 recs
You are completely misrepresenting my argument

I believe Obama would be a better chief executive as well.  Personally I don't buy that Hillary is any more compotent than Barack because she has been on the national stage longer.  History is the best witness to the fact that Experience doesn't translate into being a good cheif executive.

What I would call immature is the belief that our problems will be solved by nominating "a fighter".  Thinking that someone can fight good legislation into place is engaging in wishful thinking.

Good government comes from a groundswell of public involvement.  FDR enacted the New Deal in 100 Days, not because he was a partisan fighter, but because the public not only supported him, but pushed him to be progressive.

Another good example is Hillary's own example of Lyndon Johnson passing the civil rights bill.  His years of Senate wrangling certainly helped, but he never would have gotten there if it was not for two things:
1) The years of non-violent activism by Martin Luther King Jr, slowly bending public support towards his side.
and
2) The outpouring of sympathy for the death of President Kennedy and the American people's desires to see his "legacy live on" in Civil right's legislation.

The most significant changes made to our government are made by leaders who can effectively engender, manage, and be responsive to the political will of the American people.  Barack Obama has shown that he can do this.

The reason he can be more effective NOW than later is that Bush's legacy of failed and cynical conservatism has left people willing to listen to someone who says Government CAN work for the people, and that their involvement DOES matter.  That's why I say this is his moment.  The context in which he has arrived AMPLIFIES his message and methods, but if we wait until the moment has passed, if we wait until voters are comfortable enough to be cynical again, we may never get another chance at building the American people's faith in progressive government.

by ArkansasLib 2008-03-02 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: You are completely misrepresenting my argument

I have misrepresented nothing in your message, I deeply disagree with your analysis and see no basis whatsoever in your claim that Obama has any record or experience in working for bipartisan projects or in standing up for principles. Hillary Clinton has spent 7 years working in the Senate on a variety of projects with Republicans, while never violating core Democratic values. Obama has no similar experiences to offer.

The main process that will modify people's cynicism about government is to fight for and establish government programs and interventions that actually are competent, meet their goals, make people's lives better, and are sustainable. Actions and accomplishments count, not words. These are Hillary Clinton's gifts, she has been a creative and effective consensus builder and improved the lives of countless people in New York during her tenure in the Senate, and has fought for BOTH the Democrats who voted for her and the Republicans who initially did not. Now the Republicans vote for her as well, her last re-election was a landslide of 67%, carrying our Republican counties upstate.

People need to see action, not words, to reverse the cynicism and distrust of government, and by extension, liberal/progressive programs and ideals, that has developed over the years. Privatization of government programs, especially the dearly loved and valued Medicare program, and FEMA, and the FDA by the Republicans, has deeply damaged those programs and agencies. We need someone with mastery of these issues and the capacity to really work across party lines to rebuild the strength of our government, and reignite the trust and civic enthusiasm for a government that unites us and truly serves the people.

Words and rallies move people briefly, but only substance changes the world. A surge of inspiration is exhilarating, agreed, but real gains are only made from long hard work, and dedication to complete that work sustained far beyond the transient enthusiasm of a rally. That's where maturity steps in and gets the job done.

How many people regularly get all excited about a project, buy all the accoutrements for it, and then leave it untouched until it goes into the yard sale? How many people rallly to make all those New Year's resolutions, which days later fall by the wayside?

Those Obama signs will wilt and droop, people go back to their lives which may or may not be working for them, and afterward only having leaders who work continuously and hard will keep the movement going. I do not see any firm commitment to values and goals of social change in Barack Obama, who has a history of avoiding conflict, or taking any strong stands on issues. He has no record of significant legislative accomplishment, and even his state Senate involvements appear to be the work of others which he appropriated in his last year there.

Hillary Clinton does have the scars and lessons learned from both failures and accomplishments in her past, and the remarkable fortitude she demonstrates to continue searching and struggling to create solutions demonstrates the maturity I speak of. Persistence works. 90% of life really is "showing up." Hillary Clinton epitomizes "showing up."

Perhaps Barack Obama could attain and demonstrate this type of maturity and intestinal fortitude over time, and prove he has what it takes. Hillary Clinton already has, and even after being demonized by the right she still has the love and support of half of the Democrats, even given Barack Obama's sudden popularity. It is the long term effort that will determine success or failure. I have seem far too many "movements" fail after their shallow novelty wears off, and people become disillusioned, which is an inevitability with Barack Obama's popularity.

I vote for more sustenance in my candidates, and do not see any evidence that Barack Obama is capable of changing anything or even managing government well. Hillary Clinton has what it takes to be the real agent of change, she is self correcting and never gives up, a walking definition of maturity and the strength to get things done.

by 07rescue 2008-03-02 05:17PM | 0 recs
Re: You are completely misrepresenting my argument

What Senate accomplishments? I don't see anything by Hillary that matches up to Obama-Coburn or Obama-Lugar. Nor do I see any foresighted but unsuccessful attempts like the Stop Fraud act, which would have stopped the mortgage bubble a year earlier than it stopped on its own and saved the country hundreds of billions in bad mortgages.

by curtadams 2008-03-02 08:01PM | 0 recs
Re: I think...

Hillary has 8 years of Senate experience. Obama has 3. But Omaba also served several years in the Illinois Senate. So in reality, there is little disparity in their experience.

by fugazi 2008-03-02 04:39PM | 0 recs
This means Hillary loses

Statistical dead heats indicate there won't be a real net change in pledged delegates.

Hillary still needs 20 point wins in both states for it to mean anything.

That means there will be huge amounts of pressure for her to leave the race starting on Wednesday. I suspect the Super Delegate lead will change hands before Friday. Also, the pressure will end up affecting her position in the Senate should she refuse to read the handwriting on the wall.

Even with two wins, it's still a loss for her. Small wins simply are not good enough.

by Walt Starr 2008-03-02 10:09AM | 0 recs
The bar was set ridiculously low

As soon as Penn set the bar so loow that Obama had no choice but to win four, the facade of any win being good came off the whole thing and reality set in for the party.

Big wins are all that will do now. IF Pen n had been smart, he would have kept his mouth shut on setting a requirment so high. The veneer of simply winning being good enough would have stuck, but it came off slicker than snot when he ran his mpouth about anything less than sweeping on Tuesday being a loss for Obama.

by Walt Starr 2008-03-02 10:24AM | 0 recs
Re: The bar was set ridiculously low

I think the bottom line at this point will be if she doesn't win more delegates on Tuesday, then the storyline becomes "it's now March and 40 states have voted and there hasn't been a single election day yet where she's won more delegates than Obama".  The pressure on her to bow out is going to seriously mount.  Assuming VT & RI is a wash (which is a "best case" for Clinton - Obama visiting RI this weekend seems to indicate his camp thinks it's actually in play), Clinton will need to win OH by a much larger margin than she currently is to make that happen.  Considering that the TX primary is probably going to be a split and the caucus an Obama blowout, there will be a fairly substantial delegate count deficit from TX for her to make up in OH.  I just don't see it happening.  I think she's done by Wednesday.

If she makes up delegates Tuesday, especially if it is convincing (like at least 15 or 20), then she has every right to fight on.  If not, at some point, the party elders who have sat on the sidelines are going to send the message "how long can you go 0-for-the-whole-campaign and still stay in"?

by NJIndependent 2008-03-02 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: The bar was set ridiculously low

I agree. If Hillary wins Texas and Ohio with 60 percent of the vote or better, she remains viable and has every right to fight on. But if she wins only by small margins or loses in either Texas or Ohio, then she no longer has a viable chance at the nomination. If she stays in at that point, she is our Huckabee. I just have to believe that the Clinton's are concerned enough with the Clinton brand that they wouldn't want that embarrassment.

by fugazi 2008-03-02 04:43PM | 0 recs
Re: No more Losing = Winning

At first I didn't think the primaries dragging on mattered as long as it end unacrimoniously, but now I'm not so sure-- fundraising wise, I'm worried Barack may exhaust his small contributers in the primaries, and message-wise, HRC is effectively acting as a focus group firm for Mccain (testing various messages, thus allowing Mccain to avoid her missteps and take what works).  

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 12:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Dispatch disagreed with Mason: Clinton +16 in

The Dispatch's methodology is interesting.  They use mailed-in ballots that were sent randomly to the homes of registered Democrats and Republicans.    Not Independents.   Also, there's no specifics on whether Republicans and Democrats were presented the option of choosing someone from the opposite party.  There's also no indication on when their list of registered voters was last updated.

by Setrak 2008-03-02 10:17AM | 0 recs
IIRC

The Dispatch was terrible in their survey of several ballot proposals around 2005. And mail-in ballots aren't too reliable in general.

They were pretty close in 2006, going from memory again.

by MILiberal 2008-03-02 10:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Dispatch disagreed with Mason: Clinton +16 in

Their turnout model was based upon prior primaries, too. We all know how accurate that model is.

by Walt Starr 2008-03-02 10:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

It's not a matter of taking it to the bank. Obviously there's risk. A bank doesn't pay nearly 50/50 for an investment of a few weeks, days or even hours.

You always want Mason-Dixon and SurveyUSA pointing in your direction. Hillary has trended upward in Ohio today on Intrade, up 3.3% to roughly 55/45 theoretical likelihood.

I respect Walt Starr dating many years to DU, but he's in orbit if he thinks there will be considerable pressure for Hillary to depart if she wins both Texas and Ohio, regardless of the margin. The press loves winners and the delegate count will be a second tier theme compared to the popular vote outcome in the two biggies. The emerging focus, given a Hillary sweep in those two states, will be her dominance of the heavily populated states.

It's very true the bottom line toward the nomination won't alter significantly, if at all. Obama is trading at roughly 86/14 on Intrade. BTW, that's considerably higher than Hillary every reached. The press deserves to be scolded for ignorant portrayal of the race, insisting Obama has made a miraculous comeback when Hillary was always in the 50/50 range and not much higher, to emerge as the Democratic nominee. For basically a year she was a slight favorite versus the Field for the nomination, and 2/1 to 3/1 to become president. That's less than even money, for those who don't dabble in odds. Pure ignorant mythology she was an odds-on juggernaut.

by Gary Kilbride 2008-03-02 10:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

The pressure will be there. The reason is because of history. The GOP has its nominee. Failure to unite now will cost the Dmeocratic PArty in the general election. Everybody knows it.

Richardson hinted at the coming storm of pressure today by setting the standard for who will be the nominee after Tuesday. That bar has been set at "whoever leads in pledged delegates".

Obama has a 155 pledged delegaste lead. Obama will be the nominee and the pressure for Clinton to drop out will be enormous. At best, winning both Texas and Ohio will force pressure on Obama to accept Hillary as his running mate.

by Walt Starr 2008-03-02 10:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

It is virtually impossible for her to break that pledged-delegate lead.  Even amongst super-delegates, her lead has gone from 100 to 50.  Let's forget about the supers.   150 delegates is what stands between Clinton and Obama.  Let's put the number up for grabs on Tuesday at 400.  She needs to win 275 delegates to his 125.  That would require her to beat him by more than 2 to 1 odds, almost 3 to 1.  It's not going to happen.

by Setrak 2008-03-02 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

Walt, you are relentless!

The superdelegates are going to determine the outcome. Delegate math is highly subjective because there are many different counts, including one on the MyDD main page showing Hillary in the lead.

If Hillary wins Ohio and Texas, which is looking increasingly like a distinct possibility, then the superdelegates will have more than ample reason to vote their conscience.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-03-02 01:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

The fundamental flaw in your argument is that SuperD's conscience = Clinton.

In fact, I think trends show us the opposite --- Clinton has already won her SuperD's.  Obama's are waiting "till it's safe".

by zonk 2008-03-02 05:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

The Clinton campaign cultivated the idea that she was the run away favorite for the year before Iowa caucuses. They bear some responsibility for that narrative crashing down. That said, this really hasnt been a banner year for the American political press.

by LiberalFL 2008-03-02 11:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

I've seen several neutral commentators suggest the "gray zone" for Clinton staying in the race is if she very narrowly wins the popular vote but loses the delegate count in TX.  If she picks up delegates in TX (and wins OH and RI of course) then she's got a good argument for staying in.

by Nissl 2008-03-02 11:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

It doesn't matter what the latest polls say. This thing has been over for the past two weeks.  Hillary's only chance was to win EACH of the big states on 3/4 by 20 or more points and then hold on until PA and win THAT by a similar margin. Once her numbers for OH and TX started to erode under the drumbeat of Obaman's unanswered 11 February primary victories in smaller states, she went the way of Rudy.  

The danger here is that she will try to challenge the TX caucus vote if she loses there so she can avoid the conversation about it being over until some court speaks on the lawsuit. This sort of thing just damages the party and leaves her a tarnished legacy.

She should concede Tuesday night unless she astounds everyone which huge wins in BOTH states.

by MikeWalk 2008-03-02 10:43AM | 0 recs
She's fighting for the Veep spot

Pulling a win in both states gives her leverage to demand a spot on the ticket. It's a pretty obvious gambit as everybody knows she cannot pull a large enough margin to affect the outcome of the nomination.

If she wins both Texas and Ohio, she has a bargaining chip to wield when the party puts the pressure on her, and they will apply the pressure regardless.

So she's vying for a spot on the ticket as Veep, setting herself up for a run in '16. She'll only be 68 which will make her still very young, especially when you consider how much longer women live when compared to men. For her to be considered as old as McCain she'd have to be nearly 80.

Quite frankly, it would nto bother me in the least if she pulled it off, either. I could see nothing uniting the party more than an Obama/Clinton ticket. Obama may be smart enough to see this too even if Hillary doesn't pull it off on Tuesday.

by Walt Starr 2008-03-02 10:56AM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

I don't think she needs to have this leverage to hold over him.  I think at this point, he will offer the VP slot to her first, if she wants it.  I think it's far less likely that she accepts than that he offers it.

by NJIndependent 2008-03-02 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

I really have to disagree. Withouot leverage, I predict Obama would tap Tim Kaine of Virginia for the veep spot to solidify Virginia as a blue state this year. With Obama on the ticket, Virginia is definitely up for grabs. With Kaine on the ticket, Virginia will be a solidly blue state and will put other Southern states into play.

Obama won't give that up for Hillary unless he has no choice.

by Walt Starr 2008-03-02 11:20AM | 0 recs
No, please, don't pick Tim Kaine

I live in Virginia.  The lieutenant governor of Virginia is a lunatic wingnut.  Don't make him governor!  Please!

by feynman 2008-03-02 12:00PM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

I've been thinking Kaine as well (has the hidden strength of Spanish Fluency), but what about Anthony Zinni- Fmr Centcom Commander (includes the Middle East) also opposed Iraq from the start.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

Obama's choice would be between going for national security credentials (Biden/Zinni/Webb), and going for an experienced, popular red-state governor who reinforces his outsider/unity message.

On foreign policy, I would rather play up Obama's advisors/military supporters than use the VP slot to do the job.  I don't think McCain can convincingly win the foreign policy argument this year, not with Iraq on the table.  

As far as governors, Kaine is too new and would cost us a governor's seat in a fashion that had real consequences.  There are a several reasonable options in this category, but I'm still behind Sebelius as the best candidate - extremely popular even with R's, excellent track record, MO and OH ties, Catholic, female, ready for primetime. (Yes, her SOTU response was flat.  She needs to work on her skills in front of a teleprompter.)

by Nissl 2008-03-02 01:18PM | 0 recs
Sebeliuis would be a gamble

but it would also be in keeping with Obama's standard of running counter to the common wisdom.

I could definitely see that and you;ve convinced me it's more likely than a Kaine Veep pick.

by Walt Starr 2008-03-02 05:09PM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

Are you serious? You really think Hillary actually is fighting this hard, this long for a VP spot. It's not going to be over Tuesday because a large majority of Democrats don't want Obama to be the nominee. She raised 35 million because a lot of people want to see her be President. She's not fighting for it to be the VP. You all here on MYDD need to realize that it IS going to come down to Super delegates because neither of them have enough to get to the nomination without it.

by jackfkntwist 2008-03-02 11:13AM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

I'm very serious. Mathematically, for her to win the nomination she needs 20 point wins in EVERY state remaining, which means she needs 30 point wins in those states where she stands a chance and she needs to keep Obama down to breaking even in those states where he will do best.

It's all abotu a Veep spot because that's her only path to the white house. It has been her only path since the Potomoac Primary blowout.

by Walt Starr 2008-03-02 11:16AM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

You're still forgetting super delegates because mathematically, it is statistically impossible for Obama to get the nomination either. You clearly have no grasp on the reality of the situation.

by jackfkntwist 2008-03-02 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

Superdelegates won't overturn the pledged delegate winner. That is the reality. Unless a huge scandal or some other unexpected thing happens, that is.

by marcotom 2008-03-02 12:58PM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

Except that superdelgates have a job to break the tie and statistically, they are in a tie. 100 delegate lead does not a winner make. So therefore, they are going to have to use their independent judgment to decide who the winner should be. MYDD has become nothing but another shill for Obama.

by jackfkntwist 2008-03-02 01:11PM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

I know! MyDD, Daily Kos, Open Left, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, Reuters, AP, Washington Post, New York Times, LA Times, and every political commentator are plainly biased against Clinton! Has the whole world gone insane?!

Can't these people do math and realize that 0=150? Can't they see that Clinton is the favorite in this contest? That one win on Tuesday for Clinton will completely reverse Obama's momentum and give Clinton the nomination? She won New York and California! Obama doesn't have a prayer of carrying those states in November!

All I can conclude is everyone is crazy expect me!

by Kal 2008-03-02 01:21PM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

So basically she's a suicide bomber, I mean really if supers overturn the delegate leader, it will destroy the party. HRC would lose every single Blue state that is within 5 points, due to depressed AA turnout, and frankly a possible crossover by youth voters who feel betrayed but don't have strong party attatchments.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

What do you mean "Overturn"? Neither of them have 2,025 to get the nomination. They're votes are the ones who will put them over the edge. Their job isn't just to stamp a seal of approval on a tiny delegate lead. Their job, if needed, is to do what's best for the party and the country. Maybe you should take a look at Geraldine Ferraro's editorial in the NYT because she was one of the people who actually began this process that you seem to think you understand, and she tells it like it is. We're nominating a democratic candidate not a wolf in sheep's clothing.

by jackfkntwist 2008-03-02 01:14PM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

Not quite. Current trends should put Obama at finishing just shy of 1800 pledged delegates.

He's at 1198.5 right now, 38.5 delegates higher than he planned to be according to the leaked memo from his campaign after Feb 5. He's beaten his projections in every state on that memo except democrats abroad where he did half a delegate under his projection.

He was supposed to finish at 1,664 delegates at his projection (Hillary was at 1,580). If he's currently 38.5 delegates better than that projection and the trend continues he'll finish just under if not at 1,800 delegates. He needs around 225 supers to get the nomination. and has 193 at the moment.

This thing is over. If he gets 35 more supers, he's got the total he needs without having to barter with Hillary.

It's done man, it's done.

by Trowaman 2008-03-02 01:29PM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

You mean, a very slight majority of registered Democrats prefer Hillary to Obama as the nominee but like both candidates.  As far as supers, if she loses either OH or TX on Tuesday and stays in the race, the supers will land in Obama's column very very quickly.

by Nissl 2008-03-02 11:23AM | 0 recs
Re: She's fighting for the Veep spot

And even this majority is based entirely on exit polls, which haven't had the best track record as of late (I remember 2004, did anyone enjoy Pres. Kerry's SOTU this year?).  Even if one takes this at face value, I would like someone to point out why being repellant to independent voters is seen as a positive in the General election?

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 01:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

Given that Sen. Obama won 11 in a row, and his prolific prowess as a fundraising juggernaut, we should not be having this conversation. Add the Clinton campaign's missteps he should be winning everything in his sight.

How could she lose 11-0 and raise $35m? Could it be that most Democrats want her to be the nominee? She should remain in the race if she wins two out of four.

by LadyEagle 2008-03-02 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

As an Obama supporter, I don't mind her staying in the race.  Let the Democrats compete in all 50 states, let the voters get to see Obama, let's get the ground work up and ready for November.  I just hope the campaign will veer away from the more negative-aspects that we've seen(from both sides).

by Setrak 2008-03-02 10:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

If Obama had lost 11 straight, he would be out of the race, raising 35 mil is nice and all but if its seen as a statement then what does raising 50mil+ mean?

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 01:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

For the same reason why Giuliani raised 60 million and won one delegate. Or Ron Paul raised something like 40 million or so, and has won barely any delegates. Because people donate money for their own reasons, and not necessarily because they're great at reading the tea leaves.

by Sean Siberio 2008-03-02 01:17PM | 0 recs
Big night? Hardly!
Before voting stations close in Texas and Ohio, all eyes will be on those 2 states, but unless the early returns show Clinton with a 10 point lead in at least one of those 2 states, then people are going to turn out the lights and call this one done.
The bigger day is going to be Wednesday, in which everyone will be curious as to what Clinton will do.
by fetboy 2008-03-02 11:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,
I've been pretty accurate in my predictions since prior to the Potomac Primary. I'll continue to stand by those.


by John in Chicago 2008-03-02 11:43AM | 0 recs
FAKE DEMOCRATS WILL VOTE IN TEXAS
Texas is an OPEN Primary/Caucus.
A Texas reporter estimated that Democrats are likely to make up only about 55% to 60% of voters in the Texas Democratic primary/caucus.
Hate to point out the obvious:
We DEMOCRATS, and only Democrats, should select our Presidential nominee.
Independents and Republicans are welcome to vote for the Democratic Presidential Nominee in the General Election, but only after we DEMOCRATS elect our nominee.
by CLK 2008-03-02 11:52AM | 0 recs
Re: FAKE DEMOCRATS WILL VOTE IN TEXAS

Then we'll never find a candidate who appeals to more than 51% of the country.

by Setrak 2008-03-02 11:57AM | 0 recs
Re: FAKE DEMOCRATS WILL VOTE IN TEXAS

MOre than 35% you mean! Because the rest are either independents or Republicans. But whatever.

That line of arguing is quite stupid and obviously only made up to rationalize away Obama's wins.

by marcotom 2008-03-02 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: FAKE DEMOCRATS WILL VOTE IN TEXAS

I don't know why this point is so hard for them to grasp.

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-02 01:11PM | 0 recs
Re: FAKE DEMOCRATS WILL VOTE IN TEXAS

"Then we'll never find a candidate who appeals to more than 51% of the country."

Why in the world do you assume that the non-Democrats are voting for someone because they approve of them? They vote for an opponent they believe is weak and beatable by their own party.

There is no assurance whatsoever that this process in any fashion improves the odds of getting a more appealing candidate. The opposite is likely true.

by 07rescue 2008-03-02 01:13PM | 0 recs
Re: FAKE DEMOCRATS WILL VOTE IN TEXAS

Some of this is true (especially for the GOP voters, though even then I'd ahave a hard time belieiving this is more than 50% of GOP crossovers-- and this probably helps HRC what with her being Limbaugh's girl and all) but I would say that indie voters are overwhelmingly voting for who they choose not in some strategic gambit.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 01:16PM | 0 recs
Re: FAKE DEMOCRATS WILL VOTE IN TEXAS

Why in the world do you assume that the non-Democrats are voting for someone because they approve of them? They vote for an opponent they believe is weak and beatable by their own party.

Why do you assume that people function as political operatives? No one has shown, other than anecdotal evidence and alot of bluster on talk radio, that anyone is, in an insincere way, crossing over to vote for someone they don't actually like. The fact that even in some closed primary's, some people don't self-identify as Democrats in exit polls tells you something.

It also ignores the fact that due to alot of states not requiring a registration to a particular party to vote in said primary, trying to figure out statistically if someone is "insincere" is nigh impossible. For instance, in my state (South Carolina, you know, one of the ones that don't matter) I am not registered to any party, because its not required. And I voted in the Democratic primary. How could you figure out if my, or anyone else's vote, was sincere or not? You can't.

So lets stop talking nonsense about open primary's (something that started in Wisconsin, ostensibly to stop corrupt machine politics) and realize, that hey, he's actually WINNING.

by Sean Siberio 2008-03-02 01:32PM | 0 recs
Texas - Ohio

I haven't seen one single post anywhere on the Internets by a Hillary supporter that lays out a viable scenario where she could have the lead in pledged delegates going into the convention.  Thus, it becomes obvious that Hillary and her supporters are hoping that she can somehow persuade the superdelegates to vote her way, against the expressed wishes of the electorate.  Think about where that takes us as a Party;  it would be catastrophic.  The fact that the Hillaryites have yet to grasp what's going on here is very telling, and more than a little disturbing.

by global yokel 2008-03-02 12:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

Still waiting on SurveyUSA, the only poll (besides the one on election day) that matters.

When do they release their new one, tonight or tomorrow?

by RussTC3 2008-03-02 12:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

I would love to know too.

Clinton always gets a bump over the weekend, and this is easily explained.  Her constituency is more likely to be reachable by pollsters over weekend than Obama's.

The writing may be on the wall.

by foxsucks81 2008-03-02 12:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

Hey just because we're out having fun, doesn't mean we should mock them :), just kidding, but seriously I'd be willing to bet that Obama is underpolled consistently due to the fact that his younger supporters don't rely (or in many cases even have) a landline.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 01:18PM | 0 recs
Methodology has all the validity of Zogby Online

Their methodology is beyond suspect (see: Online polls) and actually repeats the same self-selection problem that led to the rise of modern polling (I forgot the name of the publication, but a magazine did something similar in 1932 and picked Hoover over Roosevelt).

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 12:54PM | 0 recs
Other considerations.

O has won in caucus states that Hillary has spent less time concentrating in.  She came in late to Iowa, and didn't concentrate until the end in Washington, but in Nevada, a place where Hillary really made an effort, she won.  So too with Texas.  She has spent a considerable amount of time there, and it will pay off.  Obama's specialty is also small states.  Texas is not in his specialty range.  

by Scotch 2008-03-02 01:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Other considerations.

HRC wins is states that don't have signifcant African American participation, TX does (far more of a fair mix than Cali which was at the National AVG for AA population % while having 3 times the national average for Hispanics).

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 01:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

I don't want to buy into this but it does worry me, I mean what if she views an Obama loss in 2008 as the only way she'll get a shot at the White House (2012)?

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-02 01:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Mason-Dixon: Statistical Dead Heats in Texas,

This thing is over you guys.  Ohio matters toward the G.E, Texas is a lost for us in the G.E so we must only hope that Obama can connect with the Ohioans the same way he has connected in other parts of the nation.

by nzubechukwu 2008-03-02 01:16PM | 0 recs
McCain wins

I think come november, its wont matter, McCain is goign to win. why do I say that? Because republicans will come home...despite their misgivings about McCain, they desperately dotn want to see Hillary or Obama....and in the end experience, particularly military and foreign policy is going to trump everything else......unless....the economy reallly tanks. In that case Obama wins...

by adbct 2008-03-02 01:41PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain wins

The economy really is tanking.  The old conservative talking points about people not having health insurance because they are too lazy to get good jobs just doesn't ring true anymore.  People I know from across the political spectrum have turned more isolationist and against "free trade".

Pitting the continued Occupation in Iraq against the alternative of Democratic domestic programs might just be the winning formula.  This framing of the issues could really hurt McCain who supports endless war and has absolutely no domestic agenda (same as Bush).

McCain to me isn't very presidential either.
   

by nintendofanboy 2008-03-02 03:46PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain wins

I forgot to mention I totally agree that the self-identified Republicans will come home because they are sheeple.  However many independents will go with Obama over McCain because as the issues come out he will be more closely Identified with Bush.

I unlike so many others here really do like open primaries.

by nintendofanboy 2008-03-02 03:51PM | 0 recs

Diaries

Advertise Blogads


----------- myDD - skin -----------