Obama's minister

If you were wondering when the rightwing was gonna go after swiftboating Barack Obama, you might want to check out the WSJ's version today. The interesting thing is that, as I cruised through the progressive blogs today, I didn't see anything in the way of a defense, or even a mention of it happening. It seems eerily similar to mid-August 2004.

It seems as if Obama's choices are pretty limited:

A) Ignore it, playing it down when possible; answer/denounce only specific cases; and try to attack McCain as having a similar problem to minimize the fallout.

C) Throw Wright under the bus (on this last point, see TPM post here, from when I earlier wrote this, that seems to come at the issue).

One broad theme I've noticed with the wingers covering this (and they all are) is they all work this in: "The media have largely ignored Mr. Obama's close association with Mr. Wright." Same old, I know, they did with the SwiftBoats and JK, its' ammo works too. Anyway, discuss.

Update [2008-3-14 18:42:43 by Todd Beeton]: Senator Obama has posted an eloquent explanation of his relationship with Reverend Wright at Huffington Post. A silver lining of the controversy, of course, is that when the story is pushed, the effect is to remind people that Obama is a Christian; the smear merchants can't have it both ways -- he can't be a Christian and a Muslim. Well, they'll try to of course. But also, Obama gets to say things like this:

I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

Tags: 2008 election (all tags)

Comments

283 Comments

Re: Obama's minister

I gotta away with not paying attention for a week. Wonderful. Will post later on the UK & Liberal Democrats trip.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-03-14 01:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

You should update this to include Obama's response to it, now on HuffPo. Also "The Field" offers a different and interesting analysis on how this might play out.

Welcome back. I was missing the attacks on Obama from the front page. ;-)

by marcotom 2008-03-14 01:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

For me, the most astonishing statement of all this isn't Rev. Wright's claim that America deserved 9/11 (five days after the towers fell), or calling America the "US of KKK," or calling Israel a terrorist nation, or preaching that "whiteness" is a moral or spiritual failing, etc. No, the jaw-dropping statement is the Sen. Barack Obama doesn't find the church's teaching particularly controversial.

Really? So what WOULD be controversial, Sen. Obama? If not this, what? The mind boggles!

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

If you cherry-picked passages in the bible, you would find much more controversy than that. But that's besides the point.

The church is much larger than this particular congregation, it's one of the largest churches in America. So I don't really see your point - the church is not defined by these cherry-picked sermons by one of its preachers.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 02:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

But the point is not that within Obama's denomination there is some crackpot minister.  It's that the crackpot minister is Obama's lifelong spiritual mentor and has a position in his campaign.

by DaveOinSF 2008-03-14 02:16PM | 0 recs
Obama disclaims being in church...

when all of those horrible statements were spoken.  OK, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say, that's nice.

BUT, for me the issue is all of the rest of those twenty years.  On one hand he says Rev. Wrong is his spiritual advisor and through him "found Jesus" (that would mean they were pretty close, don't you think?).  But now he dismisses him as an old man who is now retired.

And what about Obama's two beautiful daughters - sitting there, absorbing all of the anger - and, well, hate - through which Rev. Wrong spouts his sermons.

And, good heavens, his campaign has "spiritual advisors" but it's just a laundry list of people who don't do anything.

Please!

by Shazone 2008-03-14 02:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama disclaims being in church...

Have you read what Obama wrote on HuffPo? It should answer your legitimate questions. If you want to have them answered, that is.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 04:16PM | 0 recs
My fave Wright-ism

The US Gov't created HIV as a means of Genocide against people of color?

God damn America !!!

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:23PM | 0 recs
The cherry-picking claim isn't going to cut it.

You aren't allowed even one of these from someone on one of you committees. Forget the pastor, elderly uncle bit, he serves in the same capacity that Geraldine Ferraro did. She was on a financial committee, he's on a spiritual leadership committee.  They both work in support of the campaign.

Kinda makes that outrage look phoney, doesn't it?

by JimR 2008-03-14 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re: The cherry-picking claim isn't going to cut it

First, she stepped down and

Second, Clinton said: I dont agree with that.  She did not say "I have never heard Gerry say the crazy."  They are different, yeah?

by hctb 2008-03-14 03:17PM | 0 recs
Re: The cherry-picking claim isn't going to cut it

No, it doesn't. The whole fake outrage thing started with Sam Power, anyways. But Ferraro deserved real outrage, no need to fake there.

And he stepped down. No longer part of the campaign.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I'm not sure if you've ever actually been affiliated with a church, but "church teachings" and Pastoral  sermons are two entirely different things.  And no, sermons do not always fall in line with "teachings".

take it from a recovering catholic.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 02:17PM | 0 recs
So why have sermons if they don't mean anything?

Damn, my pastor used to spend twenty minutes a Sunday...and now I learn it meant nothing.

by Shazone 2008-03-14 02:47PM | 0 recs
Re: So why have sermons if they don't mean anythin

Did I say that they didn't mean anything?  I think I said "Pastoral Sermons" and "Church teachings" are different things.

My "Church Teachings" say homosexuality is a sin and  abortion is murder.  My Pastor says homosexuality is as much a human affliction as is envy and pride.  Not great traits, but not a sin either.

My Pastor says all war is immoral.  My church Teachings say some wars are justifiable.

Should I go on, or do you understand what I am trying to say?

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 03:42PM | 0 recs
Re: So why have sermons if they don't mean anythin

Gen Y, White Guilt afflicted,Liberal,African-American Prius driving, Latte-sippers go to church?

Does.not.compute.  MegaClintonBot2000HD shutting down.

by enozinho 2008-03-14 03:51PM | 0 recs
Don't think of an elephant, again.
I think on both Clinton and on Obama's part and more generally speaking the frame that we are jumping into -- where anyone you've ever been associated with in your whole career is somehow a surrogate and a liability -- is the problem.  When can a candidate simply put it to bed by asserting that the person who said an inflammatory statement wasn't the person running for office?  
It seems like the real factor here is that both Clinton AND Obama have run impecible campaigns with little to no errors coming from them personally.  Look at McCain who has actually said himself that he doesn't understand the economy.  Now THAT is something to get upset about.  
That is the correct frame here and one that all democrats/liberals/progressives ought to take up instead of some comments some pastor said two years ago.  
Who cares if Obama was present or not? Rev. Wright isn't in the race.  Lets focus on McCain.
by jlars 2008-03-14 04:43PM | 0 recs
swiftboating Barack Obama

I hate to break the news to you but MyDD is helping to spread the word...WSJ: Obama and the Minister

by JoeCoaster 2008-03-14 01:43PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

If Sen. Obama had attended this church for a while, and then left, I would say "big deal." Instead, according to the New Yorker, the Obama's gave $22,000 to the Rev. Wright to continue spewing his hatred as recently as 2006.

Any person who listens to this nonsense and continues to attend that church for 20 years is not going to be able to win as  our nominee.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 01:59PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Ditto that Universal and throw in William Ayers and Obama has the "appearance" of surrounding himself with anti-American radicals. At the point, I think the only way Dems can win the election is to have a Clinton/Obama ticket.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-14 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

That's quite the level of condescension.  Why would you sully Clinton with such an unelectable VP?

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

To use your own logic RFahey--it is not that he is unelectable. It is that she is more electable.

And, all the things you may hate about her, she is not afraid of Republicans running after her with stakes.

by hctb 2008-03-14 02:32PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Well, if he's not unelectable, then why are we even having this conversation?  You seem to be in the minority on this board with that sentiment.

By the way, I do not "hate" Clinton, though the ineptitude of her campaign and her perpetually high negatives indicate to me that she would have the tougher time beating McCain, even though many here are convinced that the sky is falling with this revelation.  I would hate to be around here when her taxes finally hit the press.  

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:42PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

sorry. I did not mean to ascribe the hate to you. Board hate. I know we are in agreement about the big picture. Not what we should do, but that we should be thinking about it. :)

by hctb 2008-03-14 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

I disagree.  Let's see how things turn out before talking about who is vp on the ticket.  I hate it when all the main stream media turned a blind eye on this and people got so emotionally involved with someone they don't know much about; then now the GOP started the attack war.  

by observer11 2008-03-14 02:41PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

McCain wouldnt have to touch it .

and it will link all the other fears together.

patriotism, Michelle, Farakahn.

We cant win with him in PA.OH.WV.NH.TN.AR.MI.NJ.etc.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:29PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Does he subject his two little girls to this hate-speech?  They were baptised in this hateful church.

The pastor is the voice of the church.  You don't go to the church for 20 years, if the voice is not what you believe in.

I've quit churches over less-hateful pastors.

by Si Ella Puede 2008-03-14 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

this story breaking through isn't Hillarys fault, or myDDs, or the media's or even Dr. Wright's.  Its Obama's.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

How is it Obama's fault?

by bruh21 2008-03-14 02:09PM | 0 recs
Obama's hubris

He had to be aware of this content, he had to be aware that tapes were for sale FROM THE CHURCH.  

there are only two possible scenarios here --
1. he assumed, or allowed someone to convince him, that his own strength as a candidate would supercede what could be made of his longtime association with Wright or

2. (and much more doubtful) he doesn't understand how mainstream America would react to this association -- in other words, he doesn't see why it should be a big deal

In case one it's extraordinary hubris.  In case two it's incredible stupidity.  

Look, you can't ignore the rules of the game and then expect the game to reward you.  Any serious presidential candidate would have PLANNED a run for the Whitehouse years in advance, considered how their associations and behaviors might hurt them as a candidate and acted accordingly.  

He should have distanced himself as much as possible from Wright the minute he seriously considered running for president -- changed churches, made some statement of being upset by the tenor of Wright's rhetoric, not allowed him any role whatsoever in the campaign and if he wanted, sure, make midnight calls to the guy for advice.

If he found that solution objectionable he should have never run, plain and simple.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-03-14 02:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's hubris

Okay good points. The buck stop with him, but I also find that his supporters aren't helping th ematter. I wish they would just tell him he doesn't have any clothes on this, so that if he is our nominee, when things like this happen, he can change accordingly rather than assuming he is above the fray.

by bruh21 2008-03-14 02:38PM | 0 recs
It feels like inexperience

Just from my limited persepctive, it seems like their was so much enthusiasm and energy early in his campaign his rise was meteoric.  (the daily massages  from the media sure didn't help)  The guy has never had the chance to develop any real political chops -- not policy maker chops, political chops.  

It almost feels like things became so heady and "yes we can"ish in the Obama camp they honestly believed not only that nothing could stop him but they didn't need to be watchful for ways he could be stopped.

This makes two straight weeks of extrodinarily stupid stunts and GOP 527 fodder --
the NAFTA garbage, the Powers comment about the war, the 3AM response ad, the "none of us have the experience" comment and now this.  

Now I clicked over the Huntington Post response and if that's his shield on this one -- oh, well.  He was a close associate with this guy for 20 years and a politician himself and never ONCE did they discuss politics? they only talked about Jesus?  What does he think?  We all just fell off the potato wagon?  He was "uaware" that Wright gave these kinds of sermons?

How damn long is it going to take some eager Chicago reporter to place Obama in the church for one of these speeches and have the whole thing blow up all over again?  

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-03-14 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Wright himself wrote that because of his controversy, he frankly warned Obama to stay away from him and Trinity if he really wanted the national political career that he openly desired. Obama didnt.

Obama has written 2 books that spoke of the importance of Wright and Trinity in his life.  

He made it part of his public face and public biography.

Obama wanted this public faith to say something about him as a public man.  It has.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

I agree with you that Obama has made clear statements that Trinity, not all this UCC stuff, but  trinity united church or christ in chicago has been formative in his faith and perspective on the world. I guess that is what makes the argument that "I never heard anything objectionable at church or in private conversations" a little weird. I mean, look at all the objectionable stuff we have encountered?  
I admire that he is standing by someone who was formative in his life, but he needs to say something about all this hullabaloo. And I never noticed he was a wingnut is not very satisfying.

JK didnt talk about the swiftboats for six weeks--a fatal mistake.

by hctb 2008-03-14 02:39PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

I agree about the politics. I have to say in reading the comments they are the kind of things one may disagree with, but if yo uare person of color, it's no all that surprising to hear people express. It comes out a lot of frustration and mistrust that's built up over time about how people can be so indifferent to what happens to people of color (a la Katrina where even after this we were still not allowed to talk about the racial element, etc), and I do admire the fact Obama wasn't willing to throw a friend under the bus. However, I do agree politically its pretty stupid. The guy said some extreme things. Sure, he may have had a point if it weren't said in such an extreme way, but he did. He should have denounced the extreme nature of his comments earlier, and said that he didn't want to complete toss a friend under the bus due to disagreeing with him. That would hav ehandled it, but I think the other poster is right above -t he problem with Obama and frankly his supporters is that they have a hubris about thinking they are above all of this nasty political stuff. i guess this will start to bring them to reality without assuming it's about portraying CLinton as evil. Although- I may be wrong. Youstill have those posting how this is about Clinton along this thread too.

by bruh21 2008-03-14 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

PS especially his AIDS comemnts- its something you used to here a lot of African american community organizer type say. "Well you know they created AIDS to get rid of us" Its crazy to some degree, but its also a product of having to face so much indifference.

by bruh21 2008-03-14 02:46PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Keep this in mind too.  The South Side of Chicago is home to The Nation of Islam (Farrakhan), and Warith Deen Muhammad (Elijah Mohammad's son).  It could very well be that Obama's church was considered tame by comparison.  Not saying what they teach is right, but I saw Warith Deen speak once, and he had Nation of Islam people disrupting his conference because they considered him a sellout and soft.

by enozinho 2008-03-14 02:58PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Whenever I see something like William Jefferson getting reelected because people honestly feel he got set up by the establishment, I reflect on just how much injustice people have to witness before they are willing to indulge that sort of theory.

Some people are hardwired to believe crazy stuff (9/11 conspiracies) but society plays a part too.  Maybe it's just stereotypical liberal guilt on my part, but if I see people dying all around me from a disease and the President won't even talk about it, who knows, I might start to wonder about things.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 02:58PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama
Not at all a sufficient justification given the post-racial claims. I am not saying that I cannot understand how these attitudes are engendered within the AA community, but I do think it is the role of leaders to debunk them, not fuel them.  
I have never heard Jesse Jackson say this sort of anti-American statements.  Rather, he has spent the last 20 years linking rural poverty and urban poverty as endemic of the same state failures.
I am not saying that every AA leader needs to be with JJ, I am suggesting I would rather they sould trend in his direction than Farrakhan's.
by hctb 2008-03-14 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

I don't get the impression Rev. Wright has ever claimed to be post-racial.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 03:32PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

No, but Obama has.

Please this is like me saying Germaine Greer is my spiritual advisor but we are beyond the patriarchy.

by hctb 2008-03-14 03:53PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Obama has never claimed to be post racial. But he has allowed his supporters to attribute that to him, which I have discussed else where, especially in my diary about "Obama, the magic negro." Which gets to the heart of thow this works out.

by bruh21 2008-03-14 10:49PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

The point was that a MyDD dairy is using a WSJ option piece to support an anti-Obama rant. That's not good.  

by JoeCoaster 2008-03-14 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Will it mean it doesn't exist if the worst of what the right is throwing  at him isn't mentioned?

by bruh21 2008-03-14 02:39PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

No, but right wing smears against Dems should be addressed, attacked, and denounced.  Not used to tear one of our candidates down just because it happens to still be the primary season...

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 02:43PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Despite what you say- the point of this post doesn't seem to be to tear Obama down, but to ask him to respond and respond effectively. Once again i find myself chatting posters who seem myopic. This isn't going to go away whether Clinton is in the picture or not. THis is about learning how to address issues. take it as an opportuntiy rather than a moment to shot the messenger. The later is not going to work over a long period of time.

by bruh21 2008-03-14 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Bruh, he did and is responding.  Why that isn't addressed in the text of the diary itself, I have no idea.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Yeah, I'm curious how Jerome feels that his site has been turned into a place featuring repeated Muslim smear diaries, hit pieces from the various right wing radio hosts, smear articles from right wing sources like the National Review, and this week several diaries attacking not just Reverend Wright's comments but African Americans and our church in general.  Even got an Affirmitive Action/Victim Mentality diary going on.  Super progressive.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 02:08PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

He may have "bamboozled" 13 million people into believing he could, but his past always said he cant.

Better people learn this now than when its too late.

The good news. I've ALWAYS wanted him as our VP and I still think he can survive that.

POTUS? No way.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:35PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

You really don't need to spam that same comment in this diary.  

But since you did, let me just say that your VP line is ridiculous.  If Obama's not ready to run the country, he fails the most basic test for VP- namely the ability to step into the presidency if need be.  And if this newest smear renders him unfit for the presidency, Hillary would be crazy to have him as VP.  

We get it, Hillary is losing.  Trying to smear Obama to the point that you can argue he's only fit for the VP spot under Hillary is cynical bullshit, and quite thoroughly transparent.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

They want the votes but not the "taint."  Politics at its most cynical.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:50PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

It's not about whether he's ready to run the country, in this case, but about whether he has too much baggage to run in the top slot.  A lot of people think Hillary has too much baggage to be electable, after all.

I've heard many Democrats in New York comment that this Spitzer thing is a blessing in disguise because our new governor, Paterson, is more progressive than anyone we could have gotten elected in his own right.  We'll see about that, but certainly no one cared about such things when he ran for lieutenant governor.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 03:01PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

This would be more plausible if there weren't so much evident glee in many of these posts.  

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 03:06PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

I can only speak for the rational among the Clintonistas.  (both of us)

Seriously, the people who genuinely despise Obama and thinks he eats babies do not want him as the VP either.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 03:09PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

Yes, and I think that the person above falls into that category.

This weekend will be very educational.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

hes not shown that he is fit for the white house and he has zero chance of getting there except as vp.

you should be grateful.

he can then show the country over time whether he deserves the honor.

now hes just another ambitious man in a hurry with a bunch of star struck half-awake fans and 90% of a certain vote.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 03:34PM | 0 recs
Re: swiftboating Barack Obama

"now hes just another ambitious man in a hurry with a bunch of star struck half-awake fans and 90% of a certain vote."

States that don't count and voters that are cult followers and 90% of a CERTAIN vote" No surprise that you are behind in the popular vote, pledged delegates and states won. When you diss voters because they would not line up behind the inevitable candidates coronation you lose.

As to Reverend Wright there is not much politically I have in common politically with my Pope or my parish priest. Do Ferraro, Kerry and I have to leave the Catholic church because of all the homophobia, sexism and opposition to a woman's rights by church leaders?

Obama can revile Rev. Wrights personal politics and still be grateful to him for bringing him to Jesus. Church doctrine and the good works of the church are quite apart from any members or ministers political opinions. Go to the UCC church's web site and read about their largest congregation (Obama's church)

by hankg 2008-03-14 03:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

What happened to B)?

by Tantris 2008-03-14 01:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

B) Propose a Wright vs. Hagee Cagematch?

B) Personally apologize for the actions/words of all  black people?

B) Put up a diary on MYDD about how doomed he is, WITH MAPS!! ZOMFG!

B) Hold a caucus in the FOX news basement to see if he should drop out?  Or is that too "process-powered"?

by enozinho 2008-03-14 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I say DOOMED, DOOOOOOMED!

by marcotom 2008-03-14 02:13PM | 0 recs
DOOMED

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by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Well, looks like Obama will be on all the networks and even Hannity and Colmes to answer this.

We'll see what happens.

by animated 2008-03-14 01:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Do you have a link showing he is appearing on Fox News? He has vowed to NOT appear on Fox News. Is he going back on that promise as well?!

by americanincanada 2008-03-14 02:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

He's going on Fox, CNN, and MSNBC tonight, yes.  

Also he didn't vow not to appear there, he refused to debate there after the network helped spread the Muslim/Madrassa smear, saying that he thought CNN would be a better place.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Do you have a link to what show he will be on? there is no mention on the Fox News site.

by americanincanada 2008-03-14 02:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Hannity and Colmes (who dug this shit up in the first place by the way...) on Fox.  Not sure about the other networks.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 02:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

He'll be on Countdown on MSNBC, 360 on CNN and Hannity and Colmes.

by animated 2008-03-14 02:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

You can't make a promise.  Please try again.

by kasjogren 2008-03-14 03:58PM | 0 recs
The Sky is Falling!

Everybody better vote for Hillary because the press has the vapors for an angry black man.

I knew a good hit story on Obama would bring Jerome out of the woodwork.

by recusancy 2008-03-14 01:35PM | 0 recs
Really poor comment.

Crap like that harms your candidate.  

by TomP 2008-03-14 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Really poor comment.

I'm not expecting to get any converts from MyDD.

by recusancy 2008-03-14 02:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Really poor comment.

That's too bad.  I have said over and over again that I will vote for the Democrat.  So have others.  But we are worthless unless we are breathlessly supporting Obama.

by JustJennifer 2008-03-14 02:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Really poor comment.

Did I say you were worthless?  Forgive me if I get the impression that this has turned into an Obama hate site.  And I know you guys probably feel the same about DKos.  I mean there's a diary recc'd right now here about it.

But I'm going to stick around and put my two cents in... and sometimes my two cents are worth a wry sarcastic comment.

by recusancy 2008-03-14 02:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Really poor comment.

You said you don't expect to get any "converts" from mydd.  What did you mean by that?  My guess is you are saying no one who supports Hillary will "convert' to supporting Obama in the GE.  Right?

by JustJennifer 2008-03-14 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Really poor comment.

No I meant for the primary.  And the "converts" word was sarcasm for me being a cult member.

by recusancy 2008-03-14 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Really poor comment.

Ok, got it.  Sarcasm is like a needle in a haystack sometimes during these discussions.

by JustJennifer 2008-03-14 02:39PM | 0 recs
Guess what, cult member,

I do not support Clinton.

When folks like you go out into the wold, you cost Brack Obama votes.  It's because it's all about you, and not about change or making a better world. Certainly not about Barack Obama, the man or political candidate.  

You turn it into a video game in which you use Barack Obama as your avatar. Please grow up.

by TomP 2008-03-14 02:10PM | 0 recs
Cult member?

Is that helping the debate? (yes I know this isn't a debate but just meaningless sniping)

I know you from DKos and had disagreements with you, especially with your "cult-like" behavior for John Edwards, but I respected you.

I hope you'd forgive me for making the snarky comment that started this thread... but when subjects such as race, religion, and gender become attacking points, "grown up" dialog isn't going to follow.

by recusancy 2008-03-14 02:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Guess what, cult member,

The video game analogy is really funny, although I disagree strongly with your use of the cult meme. I think bringing up that meme again and again is not helping at all, it's just insulting people who have come to support Obama for various reasons, not because some of his supporters act like a cult - as do some supporters of any candidate, by the way.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Guess what, cult member,

Dude, I totally wish Barack Obama could be my avatar!  Instead I have an orc.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Obama is in deep trouble over this issue.  He better  drop his pastor soon...

by nzubechukwu 2008-03-14 01:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

He's already retired.

Here's his new pastor.

by recusancy 2008-03-14 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
No, drop him from his campaign.
by ColoradoGuy 2008-03-14 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

As Obama's defenders try to dodge around with  claims that none of this matters anymore because of his retirement, know this, Rev. Wright IS Trinity church.

When Dr. Wright came there 40 years ago, Trinity had 80 members, today it has over 8,000.

Understand, the Obamas joined to be part of Rev. Wright's congregation, not the National Church of Christ's.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

You know the "wingers" that Jerome is talking about.  They are you.

by recusancy 2008-03-14 02:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Oh you big tough Kossack with your witty insults!?

I am so slayed!

swoon.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

He has been Obama's spiritual advisor from the time he was a community activist more than 20 years. Sen Obama has a lot of questions to answer. He can not run from this.

chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/ chi-070121-relig_wright,1,294740,print.s tory

by indydem99 2008-03-14 03:10PM | 0 recs
by recusancy 2008-03-14 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

There are basically two kinds of liberals: those who comprehend that the rest of the world does not think like us, and those who don't.

The people in the latter category need to pause and look to the people in the former category for their talking points on this stuff... but they seldom do.

My bottom line: if Obama can take this punch successfully, then he can take whatever else they'll throw at him.  This has now become a serious, concerted attack by the right wing.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 01:35PM | 0 recs
At least no one is blaming Hillary for this.

If she had had this goodie in her purse, she would have thrown it out there before now, like just before Super Tuesday...

by jarhead5536 2008-03-14 01:42PM | 0 recs
Re: At least no one is blaming Hillary for this.

There is a good reason you will not see the Clinton campaign come within a mile of this story.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: At least no one is blaming Hillary for this.

Quite a few folks online are blaming Hillary for this. The formerly sane Josh Marshall even wrote the reason this is controversial is because of Hillary.

by OrangeFur 2008-03-14 02:08PM | 0 recs
RACIST RACIST KKK!!!!

if you ever tried to break this truth to the crazies on Daily Kos and DU, they'd find you. And yell at you that chant in place of stoning. This IS the true test for Obama. And he is failing, he SHOULD throw the guy under the bus. He should have said that he was not in church that day, and the days where he said crazy stuff, and threw him under the bus. Almost a "sister souljah" thing, which he has failed to do.

by DiamondJay 2008-03-14 01:45PM | 0 recs
Re: RACIST RACIST KKK!!!!

What are you talking about?

He actually said exactly what you claim he didn't say, namely that he never heard these words in person. He is not going to throw anybody under the bus, the guy is retired and not part of his campaign.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 01:48PM | 0 recs
Re:

That's exactly what he said:

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-oba ma/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.htm l

And have a doughnut for subject line.

by recusancy 2008-03-14 01:50PM | 0 recs
he should have left many years ago

knowing he was gonna run for President. Sure, it may not have been personally necessary, but it would have been politically necessary. So no one could ever even SAY he was with this guy. The fact is politics is a GAME, and a guilt-by association one at that too, meaning your enemies try to make you guilty be association with bad people. Sometimes, you can't avoid it, but with someone like a RACIST pastor who probably has said this type of stuff before Obama became a state senator, who probably said the government invented crack, put liquor stores around their corners like Fishbourne says in Boyz N Tha Hood, you MUST get the hell away. Race sells better in the media than Bush's bad business associates.

by DiamondJay 2008-03-14 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: he should have left many years ago

And are you working to prevent guilt-by-association smearing or working to perpetuate it?  You put a lot of words into the pastor's mouth in order to make your argument.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:00PM | 0 recs
no i'm talking how to PLAY POLITICS

something you Obamaniacs don't understand. the fact is, while I PERSONALLY don't believe in guilt by association, I realize that the GAME of politics is about what OTHER PEOPLE THINK. And OTHER PEOPLE THINK that if one knows, or in Obama's case, knows a guy for 20 years with whom was his mentor and religious compass, they think Obama IS guilty by association. Politics is a GAME, not true thinking. Or Reagan and Bush wouldn't have won.

by DiamondJay 2008-03-14 04:23PM | 0 recs
Re: he should have left many years ago

Wright himself wrote that because of his controversy, he frankly warned Obama to stay away from him and Trinity if he really wanted the national political career that he openly desired. Obama didnt.

Obama has written 2 books that spoke of the importance of Wright and Trinity in his life.  

He made it part of his public face and public biography.

Obama wanted this public faith to say something about him as a public man.  It has.

He cant now  say, "oh that was all private, the rants of a favorite Uncle trying to be "provocative". Please dont blame me."

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:06PM | 0 recs
Re: he should have left many years ago

It has. And you don't get it.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 02:30PM | 0 recs
Re:
You know what? That's a pretty awful response. He found at "when he started running for President?" Give me a break. I just really really REALLY don't believe that. It seems almost impossible, unless Obama never went to church. And it suggests he didn't think it was a problem or was controversial until the political implications were brought to his attention. Which makes it worse.
by ColoradoGuy 2008-03-14 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re:


Dont run if you cant win. Obama can't win.

He may have "bamboozled" 13 million people into believing he could, but his past always said he cant.

Better people learn this now than when its too late.

The good news. I've ALWAYS wanted him as our VP and I still think he can survive that.

POTUS? No way.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:08PM | 0 recs
Re:

I see, he's good enough to be one heartbeat away from the presidency, just not actually president.  Is this more of that famous CiC logic?  You'll happily take any votes he would add to the ticket so long as he's not the headliner?

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re:

I've ALWAYS wanted him as our VP

and I still think he can survive that.

POTUS?

No

way.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 03:05PM | 0 recs
Re:

You do realize that if he is the VP he will have to take over for Hillary if she is gunned down right?

by kasjogren 2008-03-14 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: RACIST RACIST KKK!!!!

Maybe you should check to see if he, I don't know, actually did what you suggested before posting.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 01:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

You have a good point here, I agree.

I have a good feeling about this, somehow. This is a big story now and everybody will want to see his response to it. He might be able to fight the Muslim smear in a very effective way.

The line of attack that basically claims that he is not a patriot will not work in this election. Not after the failed US foreign policy of the last 8 years - people will not fall for this BS again. Well, most won't. I found the Muslim line of attack much more dangerous. That is my opinion, at least. How do you see it?

by marcotom 2008-03-14 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I will believe the patriotism demagoguery is effective for Republicans until I see it actually fail.  It's worked for them throughout my lifetime.  Even though Clinton won, they still succeeded in portraying him as a draft-dodging hater of the military.

On the Muslim thing, I have no idea how many people actually suffer from terminal Islamophobia.  I believe that will play itself out, the same way I figured the right wing wouldn't be able to get away with calling him "Hussein" over and over.  But I do think it's going to fit into the Republicans' larger patriotism narrative - is Barack Obama REALLY on America's side?

Humorously, I had lunch the other day with a low-information friend who leans conservative.  "What's Obama's middle name?" he asked me.  I assumed he was making a joke, but when I answered, he just cracked up and said he hadn't had any idea.  Laughing, he asked me, "are you guys SERIOUSLY going to nominate that guy?"

There may be more people who assume that someone facing Obama's challenges is unelectable, than there are people who actually won't vote for him because they believe that crap.  I don't know.  We have over a month until the next primary and there will be plenty of time to weigh the fallout from this Wright thing.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I don't think any candidate wants to get into a theological discussion.  You're bound to get somebody mad at you.  Does Obama really want start explaining Black Liberation Theology to Middle America?

by Upstate Dem 2008-03-14 02:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

True, plenty of time. They had polls out where an amazing 13% of respondents actually believed that Barack Obama is a Muslim. That's quite a few. And he can't be Muslim and a member of an America-hating Black Christian church at the same time, really. So what will people do if they are confronted with two contradicting smears? I believe it will take a lot away from either smear - the "fool me once... fool me twice..."-effect.

The patriotism demagoguery will rally the Republican base as it did every election. That would be the same with Clinton or anybody, some people simply like to be played with this. But the difference is that this year, the Republicans need a lot of independents to have a change to win. Their usual coalition of fear won't be enough. We will see how it plays out.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 02:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

He's coming around: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/14/1645 24/894

by NewOaklandDem 2008-03-14 01:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Obama just answered already.  Check out the huffpost

by campaignmonitor 2008-03-14 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
This is GE poison. Period. Think of all the sound bytes and parodies and  songs this will give birth to. The videos with wedding pictures and baptisms and holiday services with backround audio edits of Wright's tirades.
Not good for November.
by Zorkon 2008-03-14 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

The boat has left the dock on this one.

I don't know if they thought this would go away.

This is something that would strike a chord with anyone that watches the video.

Really disturbing video.

by lori 2008-03-14 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

It strikes a cord with those so inclined. You are, obviously, due to your partisanship in this matter.

Watch how this is going to play out. I sincerely think that it is going to make Obama even stronger. And it takes away a possible right-wing attack.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 01:51PM | 0 recs
TAKES AWAY ?!

Google Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 633,000 for Wright Obama. (0.12 seconds)

LOL!

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: TAKES AWAY ?!
Whoa, who are we going to run them because I just found this using the same method:
Clinton Foster 719,000
by Socraticsilence 2008-03-14 02:24PM | 0 recs
Re: TAKES AWAY ?!

what a ridic comparison, but the close numbers should scare the piss out of you if had some sense.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 03:15PM | 0 recs
Re: TAKES AWAY ?!
Googling obama jeremiah wright brings up 107,000
Googling hillary vince foster brings up 295,000
by vcalzone 2008-03-14 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: TAKES AWAY ?!

Funny thing about this big old world and the internet.  There really are millions and millions of idiots!

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 03:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Obama has already posted a killer response and will be on TV probably all weekend with it.

Remember, folks, this story is only a day old... and he's responding forcefully within 24 hours... the metric that the old Bill Clinton "war room" set many years ago.

I was worried that Obama would let himself get swiftboated, but he's on it and on it fast.  I am very reassured by his campaigns activity on this matter and his response is fantastic!

This man is an incredible politician and will be a great president of the United States.

by LordMike 2008-03-14 01:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Yes, he is so wonderful and perfect in everything he does, even when he claims he didn't know any of these statements made by his 20 year mentor until Friday.

Were you one of the ones who cheered when he sneezed?

by cbaker3122 2008-03-16 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

You're two steps behind the Obama campaign Jerome, and the rest of the blogosphere for that matter. There've been zillions of diaries on it at DKos starting two days ago, lots on the rec list, Obama has a post on Huff Post (unprecedented?), and he's going on all the news shows tonight and tomorrow morning. It is definitely not "eerily quiet" on this issue.

by dmc2 2008-03-14 01:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

A day late and a Dollar short.  :=)

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

What amazes me is the amount of right wing linked and posted stories that find their way to MyDD.

To me it says more about us as a so called "progressive Democratic" site than it does about the nut jobs who spew this sh*t to begin with.

Seriously, why does it all end up here?

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 01:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.  It is a philosophy here.  Whatever it takes to win, dignity be damned.

by recusancy 2008-03-14 01:46PM | 0 recs
Obama's minister SAID THIS

God damn America.  The US Gov't created HIV as a means of Genocide against people of color? 911 was our fault because of...?

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

Are you serious?  Do you actualy believe everything America does is right and honest and all apple pie and shit?  I can think of about 1000 things that we have done as a nation that are utterly indefensible.

You don't know why 9-11 occurred?  Do you think it was because the Muslims hate our freedoms?  You're right wing, freeper nonsense does not belong here.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 02:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

Ok, so why do you think 9/11 happened?  I am curious.

by JustJennifer 2008-03-14 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

As UBL has said himself, because America ("infadels") had military troops in the Islamic holy land.

Because America props up the dictatorial regimes of Saudia Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq (Saddam's Iraq).

Because of the apparent double standard in how we treat Israel and the Palestinians.

Because America, whether right or wrong, is preventing the Islamic caliphate.  

Since long before Reagan and Lebanon, the Islamists declared war on America for our interventionist policies in the middle east.  But we need the oil, so we are kind of between a rock and a hard place.  I really believe that if we had continued the energy policies of Jimmy Carter we would have been mostly free of our oil addiction and our presence in the middle east would have been a much more of an even handed and inclusive foreign policy.

It is undeniable, that if we as a nation kept our hands off the middle east 9-11 would not have happened, so are we responsible for 9-11?  We are at the minimum complicit.    

Now, does that mean I think an Islamic caliphate is a good thing, or that we need to totally ignore the middle east?  No, of course not.  but the question was why do I think 9-11 happened.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 03:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

I happen to think it had a lot to do with the fact that bin Laden had a comfortable gig going in the Sudan, and we got him kicked out and all his property confiscated.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 03:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

UBL is a religious zealot, always has been even during his days on the CIA payroll during the Russian invasion of  Afghanistan.  I sincerely doubt he cares about his property being confiscated.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 04:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

Have you read The Looming Tower?  We f'ed up his whole operation pretty seriously.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 04:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

no I haven't read it, but apparently we didn't f-ck it up enough to prevent 9-11.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 06:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

Why do you believe it happened?

Anybody who claims he can answer this question in less than 2000 words is not taking the question seriously enough.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

I agree - it happened because in the minds of the people who made it happen we are guilty of the things listed above.  Do I think that means we deserved it?  Not at all.

by JustJennifer 2008-03-14 03:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

Might I add that our government could be held accountable for these things, but the people who went to work that day shouldn't have been.  Nor should the rescue workers who died doing their jobs.  That is my big objection to the thought that "we deserved it".  

by JustJennifer 2008-03-14 03:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

Agreed.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

I don't think anyone would say we "deserved it", but I do think we can all admit that the actions of our government in it's mid east policy are at the minimum complicit.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

Oh yeah, our government is run by the children of satan.  No doubt in my mind about that at all.

by JustJennifer 2008-03-14 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

The US Gov't created HIV as a means of Genocide against people of color?

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 03:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister SAID THIS

Believe it or not..a lot of people in the African American community believe that.  Is he not allowed to express that belief?

Are people in the African American community who are affected by HIV at rates 10 times higher than any other community not allowed to ask why?

Since a great many HIV experts now agree that HIV began in Africa at a "hospital" that was testing new Polio vaccines made up from ground up Monkey's on African children.  That the vaccines were fatal to many of the children and that there is an undeniable map of HIV progression that springs from that very "hospital".

Is it not reasonable for the community most effected by the disease to be suspicious of it's origin?  Maybe the Tuskegee Syphilis experiments helped to foster these beliefs too.  There are many examples of "America" using people of color as experimental subjects.  

Just last year the EPA tried to bribe parents in  a predominantly African American neighborhood to record the effects of pesticides on their infants. The initial design of the experiment was  that the children would receive no treatment, but rather their symptoms would be documented.

And you really have to ask why the African American community is suspicious?

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 04:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Swiftboating as verb should be reserved for the truthiness type of attacks. Factually wrong but consistent with a perception of the target.

The swiftboaters just made stuff up about Kerry. Obama's guy is on video. It is hard to fight back.

I think Obama should let him go. But describing him as a crazy uncle may not go far enough. Obama may not have to explain to Democrats, but this is kryptonite in November. McCain may know some descpicible peopel but he did not sit in a pew every Sunday for years shouting amen in response to such venom.

by ineedalife 2008-03-14 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Obama is still too slow in his response times.  That's my biggest worry.  Someone in his campaign should have gotten hold of this immediately and gotten a response out.

Not quite August 2004, but close.

by mikelow1885 2008-03-14 01:45PM | 0 recs
by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

They're not even reading other progressive news sources anymore...  Just the WSJ.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 02:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
Two days too late.  That's it for him in Pennsylvania, maybe Ohio and New Jersey as well
this fall.
by mikelow1885 2008-03-14 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
How incredibly weak. Publishing on Huffington Post? Gimme a break. This suggests to me that he has no idea how serious this situation is. He's politically dead if he doesn't deal with this correctly. I'm hopeful he will start tonight on the news shows, but very few watch them either, especially on a Friday night. He needs to do a prime time interview with Larry King or Barbara Walters and say not only does he disagree with the Rev, he denounces the Rev personally and will have nothing more to do with him.
by ColoradoGuy 2008-03-14 02:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

He's going on Fox, MSNBC, and CNN tonight to give interviews about it.  Something you'd probably know if you were paying attention.  Or if Jerome was.  

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 02:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

For 20 years, Sen. Obama has attended this church, led by this pastor. For 20 years, one of Sen. Obama's most valuable political and spiritual mentors has been Rev. Jeremiah Wright. For 20 years, Sen. Obama heard this hatred and ignorance. And nearly every Sunday for 20 years, Sen. Obama chose to come back for more.

Sen. Obama is still a member of Rev. Wright's church. He has yet to reject his support or denounce his theology.

But can he? How can Sen. Obama say with any credibility "After 20 years, it finally dawned on me that my pastor is a racist moron." Wouldn't you have noticed during his FIRST sermon denouncing white people, 19 years and 51 weeks ago?

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Yes, and I'm sure that Rezko led a couple of the sermons, too.

Sheesh.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

no, Rezko is a muslim.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 01:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

The sarcasm flew right over you, didn't it?

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Of course it did, you should read this guys diaries, he's a one trick pony.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

WISH I WAS SMURT LIKE YOU FELLERS.

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

You're the Rezko expert, but I think you're mistaken!

by Steve M 2008-03-14 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Syrian Christian, though he does have a funny face and Muslim features, so it's an easy mistake to make.

by enozinho 2008-03-14 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Haha, those infamous Muslim features.

Frankly, if I were Rezko right now I would probably be praying to every god I could get my hands on.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 02:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Haha, good one.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 02:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

See more articles from Chicago Sun-Times

House lost to Rezko?; Muhammad says it was 'embezzled,' Rezko says he bought it

From:
    Chicago Sun-Times
Date:
    June 27, 2007
Author:
    Tim Novak and Chris Fusco
More results for:
    rezko muhammad | Copyright information Copyright 2007 Chicago Sun-Times.

A son of Nation of Islam founder Elijah Muhammad says he's been "embezzled" out of his ownership of eight properties -- including the South Side mansion where he still lives -- by indicted businessman and political fund-raiser Tony Rezko.

"He embezzled me," Jabir Muhammad, 78, told the Chicago Sun- Times. "He had taken it without my knowledge and didn't pay me for it."

Rezko called the allegation baseless and upsetting given that he has "generously supported Mr. Muhammad" in their nearly 30 years as business partners and friends.

"His preposterous accusations today are extremely hurtful . . . as I have given him and his family millions of dollars over the years," Rezko said in a ...

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 03:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

What the hell?  Are you seriously that far behind?  He's denounced these statements.  Repeatedly.  Including again today at length.  He's going on all three cable news networks tonight to do it again.  

You and Jerome should probably read a few other sites before you go off talking about this and missing half the story.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
Sadly, it doesn't matter all that much how hard he denounces the minister's statements. I really wish it were so, but the way politics works is, the Repubs still get to put those clips on TV, and they aren't legally required to say "but Senator Obama has denounced these statements." Instead, Obama has to spend the whole Fall telling the few people who don't read Huffington Post that he denounced the remarks, thus keeping the issue alive all the way until November. OK, so this is real danger time. All candidates go through this kind of moment. He either figures this out, or he's toast. Really toast, not "sit around on the computer speculating that he might be a little toasty" toast. In my opinion, as a loyal Democrat that doesn't support him now but will in the general, he needs to have a Sister Souljah moment. He needs to not only denounce the pastor's statements, he needs to denounce the pastor personally. Say literally that he's a bad man, and he's sorry he stayed for so long in the church. Make it REALLY big and REALLY loud and try and make sure everyone hears about it now.
by ColoradoGuy 2008-03-14 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

To Swiftboat someone requires that you distort someone's record or accomplishments. I have yet to see this. The WSJ does not in any do this. It doesn't not paint Obama's association with Wright in a favorable light but it does not distort anything.

by Fleaflicker 2008-03-14 01:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

yeah, like you are an impartial judge on anything concerning Obama!

by marcotom 2008-03-14 01:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

How about disputing what I say with facts rather than snide opinions.

by Fleaflicker 2008-03-14 03:24PM | 0 recs
this is far worse than "whitewater"

as the GOPers know this is real deal, not some made up bullshit, AND it gives the right wing to use the Southern Strategy ALL OUT if he is nominated, under the guise of "non-hate". Obama dug his own political grave by staying at this church. Watch all the Obamabots blame Hillary for outing him.

by DiamondJay 2008-03-14 01:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

You got to wonder why obama's allies were trying to push Clinton out of the race .

by lori 2008-03-14 01:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Do you believe that this came out just randomly at this point? I think it was planned this way - so that it has enough time to cool down before Pennsylvania. It was planned and his reaction to it probably too, watch and learn. He even said that he knew about this from the beginning of the campaign.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
Ooo, new heights in rationalization ... I like how you think.
by ColoradoGuy 2008-03-14 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

Josh Marshall is blaming Hillary for this in a roundabout way:  

"If Obama's the nominee, we will see no end of this kind of stuff. And there's probably some small benefit of getting a preview. But the simple fact is that we wouldn't be seeing this stuff now if it weren't for the fact that this is the kind of campaign Hillary Clinton's campaign has decided to wage -- often directly and at other times indirectly by not reining it in in her supporters when it crops up on its own."

See -- it is Hillary's fault!

by wasabi 2008-03-14 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

Who is Josh Marshall?

by marcotom 2008-03-14 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

God, this "blame Hillary" card is getting old.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-14 01:55PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

I don't think it is a coincidence both ABC and Fox got the same story out within hours of each other. Right at the time the Ferraro thing was nearing backlash territory.

by Benjaminomeara 2008-03-14 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

Fox has been reporting on Wright for months now. MSNBC even had a few snips on it when Obama first announced.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-14 02:03PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this
Exactly.
So why did these new tapes warrant brand new stories at this very particular time ?
Following my drift ?
How likely is it that both networks would have obtained the tapes at the same time and finished the stories at the same time ?
by Benjaminomeara 2008-03-14 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

I believe Wright's sermons on DVD's just became available recently, which would explain it.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-14 02:06PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

I wonder if I can get them on Netflix.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 02:08PM | 0 recs
LOL

I was just thinking the same thing.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-14 02:23PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

They were available ALL along to those who knew they were for sale on the website.

by Benjaminomeara 2008-03-14 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

Let's be clear here. Are you trying to suggest that the Clinton campaign had something to do with the release of Wright's sermons to the media?

by grlpatriot 2008-03-14 02:25PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

I think the media is trying to stir the pot.  They need something to do between now and Pennsylvania, right?

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

That's a good point. If I wanted to release this for maximum damage, I'd also do it six weeks before the next primary.

by OrangeFur 2008-03-14 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

But does this not "clearly" show he's unelectable?  If so, it wouldn't matter when it was dropped, would it?

My point is that this is a news item that can be overcome, not that I believe any conspiracy about the story's origin.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: At least nobody is blaming Hillary for this

"I question the timing" is one of the top running jokes in the blogosphere for a reason.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Brillant Tactical ploy by the Obama campaign. He addresses the issue head on at it's source. He will say 'my church' again and again. Result will be no one will be able to accuse Obama of being a Msulim.

by PrinceCA 2008-03-14 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

That's what I was thinking, too.  In a strange way, this actually could disabuse people of that notion.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Stuff like this is why I don't think Obama can win the GE.  Not b/c he can't handle an attack (though I think he has a bit of that problem too), but because there is some nasty stuff in his closet and it's going to come out.  

At a minimum, his relationship with his (retired) pastor calls into question his political ear.  At worst, it reveals something deeply disturbing about him.  I don't know which is the case, but I know what a lot of people will believe when the Republicans are finished with him.

In the GE, his campaign isn't going to be able to pull the "how DARE you talk about X!!" nonsense that they've done to Clinton (rather successfully).  Republicans aren't going to leave ANY stone unturned or bit of mud unflung.  And when the media turns on him....God help him, b/c his ex-minister sure won't be able to.

by mlr701 2008-03-14 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
But there is nasty stuff in Hillary's closet too. Much more of it actually because she has been around for longer.
Don't mistake the fact Obama has not talked about the pardon of PR terrorists or the sex scandals that the Republicans won't do it too.
We can't fear of republicans choose our primary candidate just the way we can't let fear of terrorists choose our President.
by Benjaminomeara 2008-03-14 02:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Spot on. Couldn't have said it better myself.

by PrinceCA 2008-03-14 02:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

The FALN pardon thing is the main reason I pray that if Hillary is going to win she does it before PR, because that more than any other past scandal will destroy her in the general-- "Clinton pardoned cop-maiming/ or murderous which ever tests better latino terrorists" seriously it hits every major fear button the GOP has, its like if the Wright scandal also included him funding Hamas. She better hope there's no  scary Brown man picture, or fgrusome bloody cop footage, or that puppies getting run over and over again.  In the general its much worse than Rich or the Rodham-Drug Lord pardons, indies and leaners already think the Clintons are corrupt liars (its not true but thats the impression) this makes her look like someone who pardoned Terrorist for votes-- they'll tie it to the Gitmo trials which will be under way, " Would Hillary Pardon Kahlid Sheik Muhammed, if it go her votes?"

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-14 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Keeping Rev. Wright on his campaign says it all. This goes way beyond some old uncle saying some things you disagree with. If I had a racist uncle like that, I'd disown him. It isn't enough to just condemn some of the rhetoric. There should be no tolerance of racism and anti-Americanism in any form. Complete rejection is the only answer.

I read the comment from an Orthodox Jew on TPM who said his Rabbi sometimes says things he doesn't agree with. Seems evident to me that Wright goes way beyond that sort of thing.

As others have pointed out, this goes to judgement and character. Just so much ammunition for the GOP and the 527s. Please, we must do all we can to see to it that Hillary becomes our nominee.

The about page for that UCC church has changed. Please take a look at the original:

Trinity United Church of Christ

http://web.archive.org/web/2006123118323 4/http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

As it appears now:

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

Oh, and the church is under investigation by the IRS for violating rules about endorsing a campaign.

by Nobama 2008-03-14 02:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

No thanks.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

The old scrubbing the website trick.  That always works.

by Upstate Dem 2008-03-14 02:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

????

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I don't see what was so supposedly objectionable in the old version.

by EvilCornbread 2008-03-14 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Me neither, really, except maybe the Middleclassness thing.  Should we all strive to be either filthy rich or poor?

The Scrubbed Text

Commitment to God
Commitment to the Black Community
Commitment to the Black Family
Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.

by Si Ella Puede 2008-03-14 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Middleclassness is one of those things that the Hannity types try to make an issue out of.  It doesn't mean don't try to succeed, it means don't get so wrapped up in trying to meet (white) society's standards for success that you forget your obligation to your community.  I might be talking out of turn, but I believe it has to do with DuBois and the "talented tenth."

by Steve M 2008-03-14 03:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

The enitre UCC is under IRS investigation, not just TCC, and its bullshit, seriously when the President attends/hosts national prayer luncheons, It takes enormous chutzpah to go after another denomination.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-14 02:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Or what about those days when churches across the damn country agreed to let Bill Frist step in to preach to them about the importance of the nuclear option?

by vcalzone 2008-03-14 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

if this was Hillary's pastor making these statements about our country and black people she would be forced out of the race. Especially if she had been attending that church for 20 years, giving money and considered him a close, personal spiritual advisor.

by americanincanada 2008-03-14 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

If you haven't noticed that there is a double standard for African Americans when it comes to talking about race, you haven't been paying attention.  It's not right, but it's there.

If anything, part of Obama's appeal is that he's been speaking to the middle of the country on these issues, especially when he brings up "personal responsibility" on the campaign trail.

In the end, this hurts him with people on the fence, but the idea that the Right wasn't already planning to run against him as Barak Hussein Osama X is pretty silly.

by enozinho 2008-03-14 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Its there for a reason, the oppressed group gets to speak. Its the same thing with women-- Hill fans and even her campaign talk about putting a Woman in the White House! Or binging the feamle prespective to the Oval Office, Obama would be crucified if he said the Black perspective needs to take charge.

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-14 02:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

That example actually shows how stupid that "double standard" claim is. If there is any double standard, it works against Obama.

by marcotom 2008-03-14 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

You got that right. But don't call it a double standard.

by grlpatriot 2008-03-14 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
Obama should treat this the way Bubba treated Gennifer Flowers.
I think this is the last of the Obama fireworks revelations. It's better it is out now. Obama will thread around deftly as he always has and will be better for it.
by PrinceCA 2008-03-14 02:22PM | 0 recs
NOT SWIFT BOATING

Swift boating is when someone is accused of being the opposite of what they are. John Kerry war hero is accused of being a coward.

Obama is being accused of the truth. He had a close relationship, VERY CLOSE, with this pastor and this church for 20 years. This is NOT A SMEAR. He chose that association and there is no way he can undo it. There is nothing wrong with the WSJ article. It is entirely factual.

I just learned of these remarks a year ago and didn't object then because he was retiring is LAUGHABLE, A JOKE!!! No sane person will believe it. (But then how many of those are there?)

by foxx 2008-03-14 02:25PM | 0 recs
Re: NOT SWIFT BOATING

foxx "news"

It's nice seeing the good old days of democrats kneecapping democrats in full throat again.

I think after hillary blows the party up one faction should totally call themselves the "hardings"

by kasjogren 2008-03-14 04:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Why are we paying ANY attention to what the WSJ has to say? This has always been a Republican voice machine.

by sam2300 2008-03-14 02:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I wonder how many of the people on this message board are posting out of genuine concern for the Democratic Party and how many are posting out of spite.  For those who want Obama to be "vetted," well, here's your chance.  I hope your head doesn't explode if he wins the nomination.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I'd say the troll to Democrat ratio is about 10:1

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Nah.  Hard to believe, but a lot of them have been posting here in support of the party longer than that.  How someone goes from a progressive talking about Darfur, the environment, and women's rights... to using Fox news and National Review articles to bash a Democrat is totally beyond me though.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 02:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Of course you are right, they have been here a long time preaching our progressive values, but once the corner is turned and you begin to spout right wing and racists talking points,  I think you've lost the mantle of "progressive".

The question then becomes why? What has caused this dramatic turn around?  Clearly it is nothing that Obama himself has done, other than perhaps to have run a better campaign than Hillary, and that is certainly not reason enough to spread false right wing talking points against a fellow Democrat.

So what else could the reason be...???

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-03-14 02:47PM | 0 recs
Out Of The Woodwork

Only a handful of these people were here even last spring. My suspicion has always been that these people were directed over here and to other progressive websites by HillaryHub and/or HillaryIs44. DailyKos was too big for them to make a mark, and a lot of these goons got banned. MyDD has fewer readers so it was a lot easier for them to get diaries recommended.

by HatchInBrooklyn 2008-03-14 03:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I'd guess the ratio is about 1:4.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 02:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Boo, RFahey. I dont think it is very cool to throw poo at everyone who disagrees with you because there are more Clinton supporters than Obama supporters. I understand it may be uncomfortable, but was it necessary to start a mini-thread about how Clinton supporters are neither Democrats or genuinely concerned with the party?  

by hctb 2008-03-14 04:05PM | 0 recs
Saw this coming

After Obama won Iowa, I got excited. It was the first time I saw his speech.  "Yes We Can" motivated me like no other politician.  I thought I found my nominee.  

So, I decided to research this guy a bit.  Look into his background.  Right away, I was brought to his church's website.  I was in utter shock at the racial tones of the site.  I felt it blamed whites for everything.  The line, "Non-negotiable commitment to Africa" really rubbed me the wrong way.  That was all I needed to see to realize he is not committed to America and is definitely not the patriotic nominee for me.

Everything about Obama is a scam, fake.  I then learned that the speech that inspired me was a carbon copy of Deval's speach.  His wife then says she has never been proud of America before now and I read her thesis paper from college where she says she felt whites were all racist.  And now I see this preacher and realize that Obama:

Was married by the preacher

Has attended this church for over 20 years

His children were baptized by this preacher

Has donated over $20k to this church last year

When reviewing all this information, it has really led me to believe that this preacher is a racist.  I actually now believe Michelle Obama is a racist and now I even think Obama is a racist.

How can people do the actions the Obama's have done and belong to a blantenly racist church and not be racist themselves?  Obama has been with this church for over 20 years.  He new this guy preached hatred.  He chose not to walk away.  Even now, he isn't walking away, only said he doesn't agree with all the rhetoric.  A few months ago the preacher admitted that he and Obama talked about his contraversal view points and that they might have to distant themselves at some point. Obama new what this guy was about and never walked away.  That must mean he agrees with the preacher.

If the shoe was on the other foot and a white attended a church that blames blacks for the country's woes, they would be labeled a racist.  There is not difference here.  

I can't see Obama winning now and for the sake of this country, he shouldn't.

by Scope441 2008-03-14 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Saw this coming

"If the shoe was on the other foot and a white attended a church that blames blacks for the country's woes, they would be labeled a racist."

Haha..Good luck peddling the lie that a man raised by a white mother and his white grand parents hates white people.
The one thing that most people pushing this nonsense want everyone to forget is that Obamas mother is white. White as in Dick Cheneys cousin.

by joachim 2008-03-14 02:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Saw this coming

Most Black churches use similar language and have a similar 'racial tone' as the website you were apparently so offended by, including several of the churches and reverends the Clinton's have long standing ties to.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 03:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Saw this coming

Hold on a second.  Most black churches ....  How many black churches have you attended?

by dwmorris 2008-03-14 04:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Saw this coming

As a member or with family that were members?  Five or so, depending on how you count.  And I'm more than familiar with most of the major churches and denominations to know that that kind of Black/African focus that the poster was so supposedly so horribly offended by is quite common.  

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 04:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Saw this coming

I guess you guys support racism.  I do not.  I don't support white racist nor black.  Sorry that you agree with hate speech and damning America.

by Scope441 2008-03-14 05:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

So hopefully we can put this silly republican smear claims that Obama is a muslim. Well how can he be a muslim if he has a pastor!

This is all the republicans have after sinking this economy after 8 years.

Seems we have republicans on this site.
If Mydd doesn't police this site as it should, we should leave it.

by PrinceCA 2008-03-14 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Who on this site claimed to believe Obama was a Muslim?  I mean other than drop in trolls?

by JustJennifer 2008-03-14 02:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I think the point was that the rightwing meme that Obama is a Muslim would be put to rest, not necessarily that anyone on this site is advancing that meme.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

The hardcore rightwing narrative is that Obama is just pretending to be a Christian.  Presumably so he can get elected and impose sharia law on us all, I suppose.

I have no idea how many people are inclined to believe that sort of thing, but the two narratives aren't as inconsistent as you think.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Wow.  That's pretty creative in a sick sort of way.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 04:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

It's the whole Manchurian candidate sort of thing.

I've never been able to get more than three or four sentences into any of those infamous chain emails, but I think at least some of them go into this theory.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 04:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
Yes, but remember he will now be identified with ``God damn America.'' Maybe not as bad as the rumor of him being a ``Muslim''
but then that was always just a RUMOR. This is harder to counter.
by ann0nymous 2008-03-14 03:12PM | 0 recs
Context is Key

One thing folks have to keep in mind is that the stuff getting played on Fox news is undoubtedly the most inflammatory words cherry picked out of literally hundreds of sermons.   If you have the impression that every sermon from this guy is like this, you would be simply wrong.  

He's said some outrageous stuff.  But that's not all he has to say, and to tar Obama with everything the guy's ever said is absurd.

by OaktownDad 2008-03-14 02:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Context is Key

I dont know, they are playing an unedited clip on CNN where Wright is talking directly about the race between Obama and Clinton.

First he says Obama is not rich (hogwash) or privileged (Harvard? UChicago?). Then goes on a tirade about how Hillary has it easy because white people hate black men.  Come on. He is talking about the campaign. Obama should have put the kibosh on him and if Obama did not sanction these comments he should have told the guy to zip it up about the campaign. What a mess.

This is pretty ridculous--I have to turn it off.

by hctb 2008-03-14 04:13PM | 0 recs
I don't care about eloquent responses

There is nothing to excuse staying at that church for over 20 years.  Obama can make all the statements he wants and it won't change the fundamental, disturbing facts behind this story.

MYDD front pagers and the kool kids at Daily Kos and Huffington Post can try to soften the blow for Obama but believe me that this controversy is making a lot of people have buyer's remorse and are feeling disgusted by what they've heard from Rev. Wright.

by diplomatic 2008-03-14 02:53PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't care about eloquent responses
Troll. You are a Republican exposed.
I have plenty of people I know who can go off the rails.
Should I be blamed for it????
by PrinceCA 2008-03-14 03:01PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't care about eloquent responses

One of CNN's pundits (a Dem) says he spoke to a GOP strategist who claims the Swiftboat ads (against Kerry) will look like Public Service ads next to what they've got to hit Obama with in the GE

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 03:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Wow. Jerome doesn't consider Huffington Post a progressive blog. He thinks Obama giving interviews on every cable news channel is Obama staying silent.  Does he have a warped sense of things, or what?

Where has the real Jerome Armstrong gone?

by Kal 2008-03-14 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

This site has been hijaked by republican trolls.

by PrinceCA 2008-03-14 03:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

One of CNN's pundits (a Dem) says he spoke to a GOP strategist who claims the Swiftboat ads (against Kerry) will look like Public Service ads next to what they've got to hit Obama with in the GE

by John Wesley Hardin was a Friend to the Poor 2008-03-14 03:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID!

by marcotom 2008-03-14 03:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Frankly, I 'm sick of there shit we need to respond in kind:

1) Talk about McCain's real Navy record, how he was a drunk who finihsed last in his class at the academy, how he crashed 4 jest, how in an act of drunken (imply this) stupidity he killed 150+ men on the USS Forrestal (do Forrestal Surviors for truth)
2) Attack his POW time, play the footage of his anti-America video with the VC, talk to the nuts who were also POWS and claim McCain sold out, talk to the people who have loved ones MIA and blame the McCain-Kerry Commission for selling them out in order to trade with the Vietnamese in the 1980s

3) THey play the "gigolo" meme agauinst Kerry, do the same against McCain, talk about how he left the crippled woman who raised his children while he was in Nam, for a Paris Hilton type bimbo who could back his political career

4) Talk about Cindy McCain's drug problem-- she stole pills from wounded vets! Then McCain covered it up and influenced the DEA.

5) Keating 5, boring but, everyone else was kicked out and/or jailed why not McCain?

6) Talk about his flip-flop on torture, imply that it means he has no soul: "John McCain understands the evil of torture, and he used to oppose it, why did he change his mind?"

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-14 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

i dont think the fact that we CAN make personal and degrading comments about McCain should be a consolation. Isn't that the kind of politics that we want to disavow?

by hctb 2008-03-14 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

This stuff had better not come from the Obama camp.

If some of our posters around here (Universal, Susanhu, Larry, Alegre, etc...) were halfway consistent or even the Democrats they claim to be though, there would be daily diaries from them about those things instead of smears against our candidates.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I may be a wussy liberal, but most of that stuff is a non-starter for me.  I certainly will not get on board with trashing the guy's war record.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 04:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Look it feels unethical to do so to me as well, but they basically turned a a war hero into a traitor last time, hell these are the people that made McCain's interracial adoption into a negative, what do you think they'll do against a woman or a black man, It might not be right, and I support Obama in large part because I want politics to be better, but I'm coming to the realization that it isn't and that the 2 people we have left are basically going to get sklimed as untrustworthy, soulless scum (Hillary) or the America hating other (Obama).

by Socraticsilence 2008-03-14 05:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Stop posting the same goddamn thing over and over again.

The Republicans will throw shit at Hillary OR Obama. They don't care who it is at all...

And did it ever occur to you that a "Republican strategist" would try to spook Dems out of nominating the candidate left in the race who isn't Hillary Clinton.

And for every video of Wright that Repugs show, Dems can knock out one of Hagee and Parsley...

by LiberalFL 2008-03-14 05:13PM | 0 recs
What I like

What has turned me into an Obama supporter is the way he handles these attacks.  He fights back, hard and directly, and he does it with class.   But he takes shit from no one.  He sure won me over.

by scytherius 2008-03-14 03:06PM | 0 recs
Re: What I like

He is pure class when he fights back.

by PrinceCA 2008-03-14 03:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

This Pastor Wright nonsense isn't going to make a bit of difference in how the election plays out.  The only thing it reveals is how desperately Hillary's campaign wants to avoid talking about substantive issues.  Take a look at the headlines for the past three weeks-- it's been a steady barrage of off-topic bullshit from the Clinton campaign.  The voters have seen this act before, and it is precisely what has driven them to support Obama.  He is trying to elevate the conversation and take us above the usual old-style slimeball politics.

Hillary is trailing, thus her only recourse is to get down and dirty and mean.  Think back a month, and you will recall that this contest was on a pretty high level.  The candidates were respectful to one another, and the back-and-forth on the blogs was nowhere near as toxic as it is now.  But then Obama had that huge month where he ran up 12 straight wins and took the lead in pledged delegates and the popular vote.  That is the point at which the campaign took a turn for the worse, and we're all poorer for it.  

There is no way for her to catch Obama without dragging us all into the gutter.  But I'm betting that the electorate isn't going to fall for it.

by global yokel 2008-03-14 03:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I'm pretty sure you plagiarized this from somewhere.  This will be your downfall, just like it was for the Obama campaig...glub glub glub.

by enozinho 2008-03-14 03:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Maybe it will not make difference in Dem primary; but I would not bet on it in the General Election. I would not count that out. Plus, I do not see any evidence of Clinton people pushing this story.

by ann0nymous 2008-03-14 03:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Fortunately the people like you who want to blame Hillary for this are a tiny minority.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 03:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

This didn't come from Clinton, it came from the racists over in the right wing.  The fact that a great many Clinton supporters here are so desperate to win that they've siezed on this smear is in no way a reflection on Hillary.  

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 03:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Yeah, she's not responsible for this, though some people here will do anything to publish any story that tears Obama down.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 03:15PM | 0 recs
There is nothing to "fall for" here

but the facts and I'm betting you are dead wrong about the general electorate.  

How is airing tapes of Obama's minister preaching from the pulpit dragging anyone into any gutter?  The nature of the church, the nature of his self-proclaimed "spiritual advisor" inform us all as to the nature of Obama the man.  You don't have to analyze it or spin it -- it's right there on video.

It may not change your opinion of Obama or give you any cause for concern.  It may not have much of an effect if any on may people.

But there is a significant portion of the electorate I believe it will effect -- no twist, no spin -- just the facts -- this is Obama's spiritual advisor speaking.  
America started AIDS?  America bombed Hiroshima without a second thought?  Black Republicans "sink to the level" of white people?  "God damn America"?  

You must not be too much in tune with white middle class Americans.  And unfortunately for Obama you do't win elections without the majority of them.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-03-14 03:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
I thought at first Sen Obama said that Rev Wright is a crazy uncle
who mis-speaks every now and then. Now he says that he hadn't heard him ever preach these things. Sounds a bit far-fetched to me.  
by ann0nymous 2008-03-14 03:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

For crying out loud! Why are ya'll prosecuting and persecuting sen Obama for the pastor's words? It is not like he sat down and wrote the sermon for the guy. Can't find something better to amuse yourselve with? Let's talk about who really is a conniving liar and a lesser person I assure you, It is not Obama.

by PrinceCA 2008-03-14 03:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

This is Obama's "I didn't inhale" moment.

Bill Clinton famously told us he tried dope but didn't inhale.  Barrack Obama is telling us that he had a twenty year association with this minister but didn't hear him use the offensive rhetoric that is now the focus of attention.

I frankly thought his crazy uncle explanation was more satisfying.  This latest statement seems a little incongruent with his previous comments.

by dwmorris 2008-03-14 03:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

The "crazy uncle" line is more convincing?  Hmmm, I thought the difference between relatives and friends/others is that you don't get to choose the former, just like you don't get to choose what kind of family you get born into, but you always have the choice in terms with anyone else, including the one you marry and the friends you hang out with.  

I personally find it laughable that Wright called Obama is the black boy who grew up in a single family home.  He convenient that Wright left out that Obama grew up in a single family home because his black father abandoned him; he grew up in a white family with a white mother and white grand parents who cared and loved him dearly.  

About Obama's white family. I want to say something more. This has been bothering me for a while.  I was a big fan of Obama since his speech at the 2004 DNC.  But after I read his "dreams of my father," I found myself confused and somewhat disillusioned. Obama is just as white as he is black.  His father left when he was two and he only saw his father once in his life when he was around 10 (I am not sure about the age here).  His mother was the one who cared for him and loved him.  When they were in Indonesia, his mother woke him up at 4 in the morning and taught him English lessons (including American history etc) so that he would be close to the culture of his birth.  That is great love and dedication! His grand parents took care of him so he could attend the prestigious prep school.  He owes so much that is good about him to his mother and his grand parents, and yet he rejected them. I remember one part of the book where he coldly observed that his grand father was looking at him as a black man.  Come on, that is just unfair and uncomfortable for me to read.  Every child goes through a phase where they are not happy with their family.  Again, his grand parents and mother raised him.  They loved him and were so proud of him. Yet, he made such chilling almost cruel observation.  For what?!  only one thing, they were of a different color.  Instead, he was obsessed with the father who was never really in the picture except contributing to half of his genetic composition. I found it very troubling.

Why did I change my mind?  I find his personal story does not reconcile with his rhetorics.  He was not even able to transcend the racial barrier in his own family. Also his choice of wife certainly wasn't that great. Michelle had the best opportunities - Princeton Undergraduate and Harvard Law (her brother went to Princeton too!) and yet she was never proud of her country. Still, people grow and improve.  I don't deny that Obama may have evolved past that stage of his life.  We shall see.

by observer11 2008-03-14 04:16PM | 0 recs
Hour of Power

Actually, there's a very plausible explanation for this. These massive churches have multiple services. The early one is sedate for the older folks. The middle one is the family-oriented one. And the Hour of Power is the big league show.  The services and sermons are different for each one. The DVDs are all from the Hour of Power.

Given that Barack Obama has two young daughters, I bet he took the family to the earlier service and so he never heard the incendiary comments at the Hour of Power.

I go to a church with multiple services and I know that's how it works in my church. There's a different feel to each service. Given the inflammatory nature of the DVDs it's likely that had he only attended the earlier services he would never have heard the nasty remarks.

by elrod 2008-03-14 04:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Hour of Power

Well, judging by the rhetoric, sounds like it was more like the Hour of Samantha Power to me.

In all seriousness, interesting comment.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 05:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Hour of Power

ARYTS, IA?

Obama didn't have his kids til about 2000...even if you give your inane theory any credence, you don't think he went to any "Hour of Power" sermons when he and michelle were young and without children?

Obama knew what Wright was about, most likely before he even joined the church. Obama was a smart guy. He was looking to join a church that would give him a leg a up politically in that community. he picked the "wright" one, so to speak.

quit embarrassing yourself and obama by making lame excuses for him.

by euripideandreams 2008-03-14 05:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Hour of Power

But there were more than a decade when he didn't have children and very likely attended the power hour, or whatever you called it.

by observer11 2008-03-14 05:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Hour of Power

Ignorance is not an excuse and to say Obama had no idea his preacher was preaching hate is simply wrong.  Obama has a 20 year relationship with this guy.  Wright titled one of his books.  Wright admits that Obama and him discussed his contraversial nature and Obama decided to still not distance himself.

Sorry, but I wasn't born yesterday.  I smell a rat.

by Scope441 2008-03-14 05:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Oh, Jerome. Most predictable post ever. Right wingers latch onto something, you choose not to see the responses given, therefore Obama is unelectable. I'm sorry, but I liked the tone of the site more when you were away.

by Mullibok 2008-03-14 03:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Yup.

by mady 2008-03-14 03:56PM | 0 recs
This made me laugh

I heard about the controversy while driving home from a business trip today. Upon arriving home, I checked several blogs and news sites. I saved MYDD for last, fully expecting that Jerome would come out of hiding to slam Obama. And sure enough...

I literally laughed out loud. It's kind of boring to be so predictable.

by godemsin08 2008-03-14 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
I said it earlier in the comments but I'll say it again here.
What I tak away from this is a desperate attack by the right by stepping farther and farther away from the current dialogue in an attempt to tie one Reverends remarks to a Presidential candidate.  Is this really all they got?!
We need to remind the rest of the media that the candidate in question is BARACK OBAMA and if they see him spewing hate, then by all means let us know.  As for Rev. Wright, well, he ain't running for office.
And before you jump down my throat about Clinton and her firing Ferraro, let me just say I don't think that it was necessary either.  Clinton isn't Ferraro.
Both our Democratic candidates are just running such good games that the WSJ has nothing but distant surrogates which get farther and farther from what's going on now and what is about to happen.
We are gonna clean McCain's clock.  There's a guy who's made some mistakes (doesn't understand the economy).
by jlars 2008-03-14 05:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
Again I reiterate. No matter how you spin this, it's General Election Poison.
Think of the sound bites and parodies and songs. Think of all the ammunition this provides the opposition. no one is buying that he attended for twenty years and didn't know about any of this. He's going to get nailed on that denial in 48 hours I'll wager.
This will repel swing voters and Obamicans in crucial states.
by Zorkon 2008-03-14 05:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I agree and now I am waiting for the video of Obama sitting in on one of these hate speeches.  It will surface and when it does, Obama is done if he isn't already.  It's just a matter of when.  Will the GOP pull it out for an October Suprise?

by Scope441 2008-03-14 05:21PM | 0 recs
Concern troll much?

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 05:22PM | 0 recs
Pearl Clutching At Its Finest !!!

First, the Obamopposers say "he can't take the heat and the crap the right wing will throw at him."

They throw crap (which this is). He handles it as professionally and effectively as the 1992 Clinton campaign ever did, and the Obamopposers say, "See !!! He's unelectable because he got teh smear !!1!!"

Talk about moving the goal posts.

Pathetic.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 05:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Remember, Obama was supposed to denounce eevery black person  on the Planet who has ever said anything untoward about white people -- at the moment they said it, and not a minute later.

Did Bill Clinton do that? Was Bill Clinton forced to do that for every n*gger joke he heard in Arkansas?

No.

Double standard?

Yes.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 05:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

DougWatts, you don't consider Wright's preaching hate speach?  Damning America is just crap to you?  Blaming all whites for blacks problems is crap to you?  The US created the AIDS epidemic is crap to you?

by Scope441 2008-03-14 05:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I damn America for everything it has done wrong. It deserves to be damned because America has done an enormous amount of stuff wrong. An honest country, like Germany, owns up to the mistakes and faults and errors of its and doesn't demand to be unconditionally worshipped as a condition of citizenship.

What is your problem with that?

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 05:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Representing Obama's mentor and closest spiritual advisor as an ancillary surrogate is a false comparison.

by Zorkon 2008-03-14 05:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
This isn't "swiftboating," and it's disingenuous to categorize it as such. Even a blind pig will find an acorn occasionally, and in this case, the right-wing radio hoard are onto something. Obama's minister is a hatemonger and a racist, and the fact that Obama has contributed to his church and referred to him as an advisor is a legitimate issue. Claiming the US Government manufactured AIDS to kill blacks is as despicable as any racist bile spewed by David Dukes or the KKK, and a white candidate who continued to be a member of an organization headed by such a person would be relentlessly attacked by the press---with good reason. Even after repudiating Wright---about 20 years too late---Obama has a lot of explaining to do. Don't judge the accusation by the accusers. This time, they have a point.
by Jack Marshall 2008-03-14 07:28PM | 0 recs
No Swiftboating Here

...when the rightwing was gonna go after swiftboating Barack Obama,...

attacking Obama for association with Wright isn't "swiftboating". Swiftboating is turning an assest into a liability thru smears, lies, and distorations. John Kerry was a military hero. republican cultists denigrated that aspect of Kerry.

Apparently, Wright is a bad guy. Obama's association with him is in no way a plus to Obama. The republican cultist slime machine taking advantage of that existinig liability of Obama's is politics as usual.

Now if Wright were actually a good guy and the slimists made him into a bad guy through lies and distortions, that would be swiftboating of Wright. But it still wouldn't be swiftboating Obama.
.

by gak 2008-03-15 03:15AM | 0 recs
Re: No Swiftboating Here
It's not politics as usual. Are you kidding? It's obvious and responsible. Either Obama's beliefs are offensive, or his judgement is suspect. You don't think that's a legimate concern?
by Jack Marshall 2008-03-15 08:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

The more I listened to the Reverend Wright on the cable news clips last night the more I found I didn't like his tone but I agreed with much of his substance.  He spoke against the U.S. dropping the atom bombs on civilian populations--the only country to have done so to this time.  He spoke against the residual effects of slavery and the genocide against the native American population on which this country was founded.  He spoke against the wars perpetrated against countries that posed no military threat against us.  And he asked why God would bless us after this behavior.  Indeed, the Biblical God would not give his blessings to a country that perpetrated such things.  Reverend Wright's crime was in the inflammatory nature of his comments, not in their content.  The content largely consisted of reasonable commentary.  I find it sad that liberals largely have joined the right-wingers in condemnation of his comments.  He lost on style points, not on substance.

by downtown democrat 2008-03-15 05:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

I agree.  The content was on point.  Perhsps the delivery is what angered so many people.

And I would ask everyone that is trying to make Obama responsible for this man's words, how often do you really think Obama has time to go to church?  I don't know if he said how often he goes but he is a very busy politician travelling back and forth to Washington and everywhere else.  I highly doubt he is sitting in church on every single Sunday.  I know other high profile people that attend church but it is sporadic through out the year.

Do you honestly think Bush, Clinton or McCain attends a church every Sunday?  And I wonder what the ministers in their churches talk about.  Shall we get a hidden camera and find out? and then make them responsible for whatever is said when they are miles away working for the nation?

by juang 2008-03-15 02:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
If this is typical of how an Obama supporter reacts to the hate-speech of Rev. Wright, Obama is doomed at the polls. AIDS as a government plot? Historically ignorant condemnation of the complex decision to use the atom bomb to end World War II without a land invasion of Japan? No black woman can achieve success in America without using her body? The moron vote in America is pretty large, but it isn't THAT large,
by Jack Marshall 2008-03-15 08:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Well if you agree that God should damn America, and white leaders in America created AIDS to destroy black people, then you're beyond help.  You can be sad all you want about so-called liberals joining right wingers in being appalled by this preacher, but any human being who loves America, warts and all, and has at least a passing acquaintance with the truth, is running like the wind away from Obama and his 20 year mentor.  

At this point, if you haven't seen the light about Obama, then you clearly have your eyes shut and your ears plugged, and you are humming your happy tune of denial.  

by cbaker3122 2008-03-16 02:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Let's think for a moment about the differences between how Democrats must act when something Politially Incorrect is said by one their supporters and how Republicans act.  When McCain gets endorsed by some lunatic who advocates God's retribution for a sinful America, McCain smiles and he and his supporters say they welcome all support.  They may say something mild about not agreeing with everything the lunatic supporter says, but they never condemn someone who endorsed them.  The Democrats, however, demand that their candidate condemn, renounce, rejects, etc., those who support them when the supported speaks in an inflammatory manner.  Then the Democrats wonder why the populous views Democrats as wimps.  The answer is clear:  The Democrats are demanding that Obama act like a wimp.  He must capitulate to the popular clamor and reject his supporter.  He must tut tut his disappointment as the words of his supporter.  He must, indeed, act like a wimp or we will condemn him.  I would have more respect for Obama, and I suspect many "Reagan Democrats" would too, if he said he was disappointed with the Reverend Wright's inflammatory rhetoric but supported his condemnation of the many aggressive and murderous things that the U.S. has done over the years.  Listen to the details of what Wright has said and you'll find that his complaints are on the mark much of the time.  Not a good idea to say "God damn America," but God cannot be pleased with an American that steals from the poor to give to the rich.  Not after Jesus told the rich to sell what they have and give to the poor.  God cannot be pleased with a militaristic America that bombs others when Jesus told us to turn the other cheek.  Didn't Jesus say that the meek will inherit the earth.  God should not be expected to bestow his blessings to us now.  Perhaps we shouldn't be so eager to condemn, reject, renounce the words of the Reverend Wright who seems largely right.

by downtown democrat 2008-03-15 05:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister

Let's think for a moment about the differences between how Democrats must act when something Politially Incorrect is said by one their supporters and how Republicans act.  When McCain gets endorsed by some lunatic who advocates God's retribution for a sinful America, McCain smiles and he and his supporters say they welcome all support.  They may say something mild about not agreeing with everything the lunatic supporter says, but they never condemn someone who endorsed them.  The Democrats, however, demand that their candidate condemn, renounce, rejects, etc., those who support them when the supported speaks in an inflammatory manner.  Then the Democrats wonder why the populous views Democrats as wimps.  The answer is clear:  The Democrats are demanding that Obama act like a wimp.  He must capitulate to the popular clamor and reject his supporter.  He must tut tut his disappointment as the words of his supporter.  He must, indeed, act like a wimp or we will condemn him.  I would have more respect for Obama, and I suspect many "Reagan Democrats" would too, if he said he was disappointed with the Reverend Wright's inflammatory rhetoric but supported his condemnation of the many aggressive and murderous things that the U.S. has done over the years.  Listen to the details of what Wright has said and you'll find that his complaints are on the mark much of the time.  Not a good idea to say "God damn America," but God cannot be pleased with an American that steals from the poor to give to the rich.  Not after Jesus told the rich to sell what they have and give to the poor.  God cannot be pleased with a militaristic America that bombs others when Jesus told us to turn the other cheek.  Didn't Jesus say that the meek will inherit the earth.  God should not be expected to bestow his blessings to us now.  Perhaps we shouldn't be so eager to condemn, reject, renounce the words of the Reverend Wright who seems largely right.

by downtown democrat 2008-03-15 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's minister
Dishonest post. Wright isn't an Obama supporter. Obama has declared himself a supporter of HIS. That's a huge difference in accountability, and Democrats better take it seriously, because most voters can understand the difference. I don't have to be accountable for the screwball beliefs of every one of my supporters, but if I SUPPORT someone with racist beliefs, I better be able to explain why. Get it??? Accusing the US government of planting AIDS isn't rhetoric---it's hateful, slanderous, paranoid speech suggesting a race war. If America is so racist, why is Obama the leader for the nomination? Wright's comments are EMBARRASSING. And Obama has to come up with something better than "I missed the bad sermons." Right.
by Jack Marshall 2008-03-15 09:05PM | 0 recs
Re: No One is Thinking About this the Right Way

I don't really understand why no one on TV or even here has really thought about the Jeremiah Wright controversy the right way: strategically (i.e., to finally get a friggin' Democrat in the White House).

The way I see it, there have been several reactions by Obama supporters, and none of them really get us past this and on to the White House:

(1)  REACTION 1: RIGHT ON REVEREND WRIGHT!  God Damn America, evil white Americans probably did give black people AIDS, Wright is speaking to the great, longstanding anger in the black community.

WHY THAT WON'T WORK:  You can certainly have the discussion to pick apart what Wright said, and whether some of it is true, false, shows righteous indignation, etc., but that will transform Obama's candidacy into a referendum on whether non-blacks should go to the polls to do penance for past racist sins of their forefathers.  If that is the case, Obama loses the general election.

(2) REACTION #2: I SEE NOTHING, I HEAR NOTHING!! (a la Sargeant Shultz on Hogan's Heroes).  This argument basically supports Obama's claim that he didn't know ANYTHING about Wright's hard, angry, bitter positions until very recently, and he now denounces those positions and as of Friday, March 14, 2008 Wright is no longer on Obama's Spirtual Advisory Committee.

WHY THIS WON'T WORK: It doesn't make sense on two levels.  First of all, Wright has been Obama's "sounding board" "mentor", friend, "spiritual advisor" for 20 years.  Obama prayed with Wright before he annonunced his candidacy, Obama listened to tapes of his sermons when he was away, regularly attended Sunday services for those 20 years, had Wright marry him and baptize his 2 kids.  It doesn't sound logical that he never would have heard any of these things during that long and intimate relationship.  

Second, taking Obama at face value, the timeline does not add up.  Obama says he heard the bulk of these comments when he first started running for President.  If so, logically, if they were so offensive and disgusting to Obama, how could he put someone like that on his Spiritual Advisory Committee and keep him there until last Friday?

Whether you believe Obama denunciations or not, there are a lot of people asking those questions and working out the logic, timeline and facts.  And they are leaving in droves. He needs a better answer to why he has kept a CLOSE association with this America bashing zealot for so long.  And its too late to give it without changing his story.

(3) REACTION #3: THAT'S JUST MY CRAZY UNCLE.  I've heard this over and over from Obama, that Wright is like his crazy Uncle who he is forced to get together with at family gatherings, and who says really offensive things, but you still love him.

WHY THIS WON'T WORK: It's a terrible analogy.  Many of us have that crazy Uncle, and a lot of people are saying "I wouldn't let my racist America hating uncle marry me to my wife, pray with me, be my spiritual advisor, preach at me nearly every Sunday for 20 years.  I think Wright is more like...um...well...a Preacher who you voluntarily hold up as your mentor for 20 years.  To have that intimate a connection on a long-term VOLUNTARY basis with your crazy racist Uncle is not logical.  

I'm not saying I buy this, I'm just mimicking the thought process of many Americans who heard these sermons and are now concerned, and won't vote for Obama anymore.  So the question is: if you play out the chess game here, I don't see how Obama can overcome his close association with Wright and his illogical explanations about what he knew and when he knew it.

If you step back and play this out, do you really think he can still win the GENERAL election?  I'm listening...  
 

by cbaker3122 2008-03-16 12:04PM | 0 recs

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