Dedicated his house too?

Ah, come on, who makes this stuff up?

Anyway [this problem was foreseen, from a year ago]:

Despite the canceled invocation, Mr. Wright prayed with the Obama family just before his presidential announcement. Asked later about the incident, the Obama campaign said in a statement, "Senator Obama is proud of his pastor and his church."

In March, Mr. Wright said in an interview that his family and some close associates were angry about the canceled address, for which they blamed Obama campaign advisers but that the situation was "not irreparable," adding, "Several things need to happen to fix it."

Asked if he and Mr. Wright had patched up their differences, Mr. Obama said: "Those are conversations between me and my pastor."

Mr. Wright, who has long prided himself on criticizing the establishment, said he knew that he may not play well in Mr. Obama's audition for the ultimate establishment job.

"If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me," Mr. Wright said with a shrug. "I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen."

Hell yeah, hope we still can.

Tags: 2008 election (all tags)

Comments

225 Comments

Re: Dedicated his house too?

< shaking head very sadly>

by Benjaminomeara 2008-03-14 07:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Truth Time: Wright is Right

"The struggle is not over and maybe it never will be, but don't get confused about Jeremiah Wright.  His only crime is being abrasive, but the people who find him most abrasive are the people who are invested in denying the truth that he speaks."

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/tal k/2008/03/truth-time-wright-is-right.php

by NYFemDem 2008-03-14 08:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Then Gerry Ferraro was also right in that Obama is where he is precisely because he's black, as much as she was selected back in 1984 because she was a woman.

If we can't admit that, then there's no way we can have an honest discussion about race.

I remember the '84 campaign, when it was obvious to everyone Mondale was David to Reagan's Goliath, and besides, whoever the Dem candidate was wasn't given a prayer of being elected. Against this backdrop, something dramatic was called for to shake up the race, and something was Mondale's selection of a woman as a VP. And let's be honest, her resume was about on a par with Obama's, and she made no pretense her selection was based on her experience.

Likewise, most Obama supporters conveniently forget that most Dems objected to 41's selection of Clarence Thomas on the basis of his lack of experience. The criticisms then were the same leveled at Obama: he wouldn't be where he is if he weren't black.

What I find abhorent is how many Dems look at Obama and say he's a "change" candidate while ignoring the fact a woman "candidate" is just as much if not more of a change candidate.

Frankly, when the Primary season began, I was proud of the fact that the Dems numbered among the candidates serious black, hispanic and female nominees. The fact that Richardson didn't make a dent was due more to his ineptness as a candidate.

Also, had Obama been a white guy - and for that matter, had Hillary been as well - who's to say Chris Dodd, Joe Biden or John Edwards wouldn't have been taken more seriously.

The fact is Obama and Hillary are where they are precisely because THEY AREN'T THE WHITE GUYS, and anyone who calls me a racist for pointing out the fact or making the argument that Ferraro was right, even if she did word it awkwardly and was taken out of context, is basically declaring we in America can't discuss race unless conducted under certain ground rules.

The fact is there are plenty of white Americans who have never discriminated against A/A, who's family history in this country didn't even begin until well after the Civil War, and who have never been in a position to adversely affect people of color. We haven't contributed to the problem, and to use blanket statements blaming the white guy for all the sins of America is just as bad as your average white guy blaming the black race with whatever grievance is on his mind.

So if we're going to talk race, let's take all factors into account. I'm sure the older black generation believes young Black Americans never had it as hard as they did, and they'd be right.

by SoCalHillMan 2008-03-14 11:46PM | 0 recs
No, it's not

We haven't contributed to the problem, and to use blanket statements blaming the white guy for all the sins of America is just as bad as your average white guy blaming the black race with whatever grievance is on his mind.

This isn't even close to accurate. The "white guy" has been in power in this country since the beginning. The "white guy" used every lever of institutional power to first enslave and then disempower African-Americans. How could it be "just as bad" for an African-American to blame the sins of America on white people as it is for a white guy to blame African-Americans for his problems?

Seems crazy that Wright blames white people for AIDS? Well, that's out there, but then I didn't have this country target my race for gruesome syphilis testing in my lifetime.

You think it's wrong that Reverend Wright has some anger? Well, try growing up like him, try ministering to a community that has been treated so badly in this country's history.

Do I have "white guilt"? No, I don't. I don't feel personally guilty for slavery or Jim Crow. But I do have the grace and the wisdom to realize that it happened, and not to blame someone like Reverend Wright for being a little angry about the whole thing.

And I also don't blame Barack Obama for the anger of Reverend Wright, and I certainly don't blame him for not "renouncing" him. Barack Obama has chosen a different path than Reverend Wright, but if you spent as much time living in an African-American community as I have, you'd know that there are wonderful, caring, loving people who also feel anger about the way their people have been treated in this country. You accept the anger, and you see the whole person.

by BriVT 2008-03-15 05:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I agree with you and think the Democratic Party shot itself in the foot with this one. If Hillary is not nominated I may vote for Elmer Fudd...(And I hope I'm kidding)

by ricochet 2008-03-15 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Every Obama supporter I know will be voting for Nader, McCain or None of the above if Billary is nominated.

by NYFemDem 2008-03-15 04:21PM | 0 recs
Then YOU and the people you know

are ABSOLUTE FOOLS!

Do you understand ANYTHING? Do you know what the Supreme Court is and why you should worry about this?

by kevin22262 2008-03-16 10:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

You better be kidding. We ALL need to get off this BS crap if it is not my person I am going to... fill in the angry blank crap!

by kevin22262 2008-03-16 10:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

How many diaries will be made on the front page about this one topic today?

by Socks The Cat 2008-03-14 07:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

As many as it takes to bring down that evil liberal Barack Obama.

Christ, I actually saw Democrats defending Fox News here today.

Do you people even realize what you're doing?

by Dave Sund 2008-03-14 07:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

This isn't Daily Kos.  People come here for deeper discourse.  They leave here when they see the hit diaries and knee-jerk reactions that one candidate will automatically lose because of a single news story.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Yeah, we damn well get it.

It's another way for the right wingers to shout "he's a n***!" without actually saying it.

God damn, you don't think we realize what the hell we're up against?

We're getting kneecapped by Democrats, who are looking more and more like Rove Republicans every day.

by Dave Sund 2008-03-14 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I don't get it.  How are Democrats making this issue worse for ourselves, other than by writing stuff on blogs you don't agree with?

by Steve M 2008-03-14 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

The idea would be that the echo chamber perpetuates and disseminates certain lines of attack, much like Drudge is the inspiration for a lot of mainstream news stories.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

It really feels more like people are demanding we all be ostriches on this one.

The story has legs quite independent of whatever Jerome may write here.  I mean, today you had Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and all the rest going on and on about this story non-stop... and our response is supposed to be "shh! don't talk about it!" as if somehow the wingnuts depend on us for fuel?  It makes no sense to me.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Yea, and exactly how many of those viewers hanging on Sean and Rush's every word were ever going to vote for a democrat in the General Election?

Why are we worried about what Sean and Rush are saying?

by tysonpublic 2008-03-14 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I have NO EARTHLY IDEA why we should worry about what the right-wing noise machine is saying.  It's not like they've been ratfucking us for the last 16 years or anything!

by Steve M 2008-03-14 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

It's more of a synergistic thing.  A story that persists in the blogosphere may receive continued press because it appears to resonate with bloggers.  Moreover, if certain lines of attack are repeated, they can take root in popular perception.  I mean, why have two diaries on this issue in the same night instead of one?  Clearly Jerome thinks that the second diary would have some additional effect that the first did not.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Because rather than defending against an obvious smear, you're getting in bed with Fox News and smearing...

After Obama categorically rejects everything that Wright said in those statements, the concern trolls wring their hands over how this issue will kill him in November...

Christ. I really have to explain why Fox News is bad?

by Dave Sund 2008-03-14 07:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

None of that makes any sense to me.  If we talk about what the right wing is talking about, we're "in bed" with them?  We have to ignore the right-wing attack du jour like John Kerry would have?

by Steve M 2008-03-14 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

No. Here's the fucking difference:

This is akin to saying:

Wow. Maybe John Kerry really did betray his country and fake his injuries in Vietnam.

You aren't denouncing the smears. You aren't suggesting how he could be more effective at combating the smears.

No, you are accepting the smears at face value.

Tomorrow on MyDD: Barack Obama is a secret Muslim!

by Dave Sund 2008-03-14 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Well, I'm not.  Jerome is not.  I guess, yeah, there are a couple trolls who are like "maybe Obama really does hate America!"  But I sense your angst is about something more than that.

One of the things that bugs me about you guys is that you constantly want to create your own reality, the thing we used to make fun of the GOP for.  Like the reality where, you know, Obama's campaign never talked to Canada but Clinton's did.  I read about that reality over and over in comments from Obama supporters but you know what, that reality doesn't actually exist.

In this case, the reality you want to create is the one where Obama addresses the issue and presto, the story goes away.  Now, that's a reality I would like to live in, and maybe it will even become reality.  But right now, reality is that this story is the talk of the town, it is a matter of serious concern, and the people who should be Obama's strongest supporters are not trying to figure out the best response, they're ranting about Jerome Armstrong.  And demanding that we all plug our ears and repeat over and over, "Obama has dealt with this issue," in hopes that it will come true.

Now, I've been kind of blunt here, but that's my honest view of the place where I see many of you coming from.  I do not know where this issue is going, and the thing is, like it or not neither do you.  I root for Obama to find a way through it just like you do.  But that doesn't mean it's wrong to talk about it.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

No, my anger at this is coming from a place where:

- Yesterday, dozens of posters here defended Fox News when Todd posted the Fox Attacks Barack Obama video.

- The rec list at this site is filled with things that would have gotten you banned from this site in any other year.

- About two dozen diaries posted at Daily Kos today using the same "concern troll" rhetoric.

- This isn't considered amplifying the attacks against Obama.

It's one thing to say he needs to address the charges. It's another thing entirely to legitimize them. And Jerome has legitimized them.

by Dave Sund 2008-03-14 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

The story linked in the Jerome's post is from the New York Times on April 30, 2007! (And don't bring up crap about the NYT with Kristol and the McCain mess, this was a year ago)

So, it predates all of the Fox crap that you're intoning on here.  It raises a lot of the same issues, and it is amazing that nothing has been made of it until now (of course, with the free pass the press gave him, not really that big of a surprise).

And I'm sorry, but it is not a smear. The bigotry of this person is the truth.  It's right there in videos.  Mr. Obama obviously knew what was coming.  Reverend Wright flat out told him.  This goes to judgment.  He should have been better prepared for this.  Lord knows, he has had a year since it hit the MSM...

Sad really.  The guru Axelrod wasn't ready for something that was staring him in the face every Sunday.  

by FitnessNerd 2008-03-14 07:51PM | 0 recs
The comments offend me too

and it's the 20 year association-- sorry, but this is THE Audacity of Hope guy.

It's really appalling and go call ABC news if you're angry.  They're the ones who only went to the Reverend's website and bought the tapes he was selling to see all this.

It's bad, and it's right after you guys drummed another progressive woman who fought Republicans for decades out of the Democratic Party in a way that disgusted women on both sides of the aisle.

You really can't say how dare you mention the 20 year association with a bigoted, hate mongering pastor after you drummed Geraldine Ferraro out of this Party only....yesterday.

by chieflytrue 2008-03-14 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: The comments offend me too

Yeah, yeah, and Samantha Power is one of the preeminent experts on foreign policy of her generation.  But hey, she said the word "monster" and so Clinton demanded her head.  A really empowering moment, there.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: The comments offend me too

It's bad, and it's right after you guys drummed another progressive woman who fought Republicans for decades out of the Democratic Party in a way that disgusted women on both sides of the aisle.

Now that's funny. Geraldine Ferraro, a backbench hack from the Queens machine, who was picked as Mondale's veep precisely because, while a woman, she wasn't one of those "threatening" ones who made a big deal out of it like Pat Schroeder, whom no one has even thought about in twenty years, is suddenly a progressive hero admired by "both sides of the aisle".

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/ 03/ferraro_keeps_it_going.html

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/200 8/03/14/ferraro_clinton/

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-14 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I am guessing you support Obama!

Your comments about getting kneecapped by fellow democrats would have been fair, except your guy (and his surrogates, and his campaign) have spent the last 2 kneecapping HRC, and her supporters.

You reap what you sow.  You sleep in the bed that you make etc. etc.

Your larger point is (probably) that this whole thing is destroying the democratic part ~ and I agree with that.

Cooler heads will prevail, at some point.  But that will require an honest admission of guilt from both sides (but frankly, most of the guilt lies with your guy).

by SevenStrings 2008-03-14 08:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

"We're getting kneecapped by Democrats, who are looking more and more like Rove Republicans every day."

Obama supporters are getting kneecapped by their own candidate, who is responsible for his choices of people and ideas he is supporting (to the tune of $20,000.00 last year).

by 07rescue 2008-03-14 11:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Actually, the same things have been said again and again and again in each of the diaries.  For that matter, there has been a recommended diary on this very topic that also said exactly the same thing, about 150 times.  We get where you're coming from.  Repetition doesn't equal depth of coverage.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

As opposed to Daily Kos, where they're just putting their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes, singing "Lalalalalala" to themselves hoping this just goes away.

Whether you like it or not, it's something that Obama is going to have to deal with.

by DaveOinSF 2008-03-14 07:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

We're not giving this a loudspeaker. Obama answered this crap today. But who wants to keep this going? Hillary supporters.

Those who aid and abet Republicans will find that they will be treated as Republicans.

When the primary is over, MyDD is not going to have any credibility as a Democratic blog.

by Dave Sund 2008-03-14 07:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I thought you guys were all about fighting back, not putting your heads in the sand.

by DaveOinSF 2008-03-14 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Yeah. And he fought back tonight. But fuck if so-called Democrats don't want to continue smearing him.

by Dave Sund 2008-03-14 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Lay off the meta bs.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-03-14 07:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Meta's a lot less harmful than the bile on the rec list right now.

by Dave Sund 2008-03-14 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obamaphiles?

Please don't refer to us as that. It's offensive. I am Obama supporter who would vote for Clinton but would hold my nose because at the end of the day, I want a Democrat in the White House.

by kristannab 2008-03-14 07:40PM | 0 recs
That means-- you love Obama-- is

that REALLY the offensive thing you've heard today?  Have you heard this preacher?  C'mon.

But... at least the second part was sort of unifying.

by chieflytrue 2008-03-14 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

There have been atleast 6 diaries about the MI & FL revote negotiations in the past few days if that makes you feel any better.  It seems we can beat non-Obama bashing topics to death as well. :)

by hctb 2008-03-14 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

And seeing his bumbling response doesn't make it any better.

It only helps the GOP with their "obama is anti american" narrative. What else is out there? Probably lots more to come.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-14 07:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

On the bright side, at least we're talking about a PASTOR. Maybe it'll confuse the wingnuts with all their Muslim smears.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-03-14 07:10PM | 0 recs
Wow

- Obama/Osama, complete with Somali outfit

- Does BHO have FARC ties?

- Etc.

If that's the best they've got, Obama is definitely the preferable candidate in terms of baggage.

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-14 07:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Wow

This is only the beginning. This is what many of us have been trying to say.

For at least two months, you've all been saying Reszko is "just the beginning". Is this the new beginning?

Clinton has already taken all these punches.

Isn't it pretty to think so?

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-14 07:25PM | 0 recs
Yeah I am not running scared

Bring it on.

by kindthoughts 2008-03-14 07:31PM | 0 recs
wow,

you think McCain is Reagan and Obama is Mondale?

You have got to be kidding me.

You are getting quite desperate I think.

by kindthoughts 2008-03-14 10:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Coming from someone who wrote a diary the other day in which you said you would never vote for Obama, I find your concern a tad disingenuous.  

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Once Team Obama put out word that they were willing to disenfranchise MI and FLA, that was it for me

I assume you're not voting for Clinton then either, right?  Because she said the same thing.

Before it became politically convenient for her to "change her mind", I mean.

by EvilCornbread 2008-03-14 07:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

It's one thing to say the votes won't matter when it looks like the primary will be decided without them. It's quite another thing to say that they shouldn't matter when they could help decide the election.

Obama's position that there shouldn't be a re-vote is patently self-serving and bad for the Democratic party in the GE, whoever the nominee eventually is.

by Inky 2008-03-14 09:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

So you wouldn't vote for him (and also encouraged others not to vote for him) but you hope the rest of us would carry him to victory if he were the nominee?  I don't understand how your last post clarified things.  I guess it's convenient that this controversy came around just as it looks like there might be a solution for MI and FL.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Can you all take the Universal bashing to his diary or something? Okay, Universal is a strident supporter of Hillary. He thinks Obama is weak. Y'all  disagree. Okay.

by hctb 2008-03-14 07:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I think a lot of people here are exhibiting fake concern for the direction of the Democratic Party when they are in fact more concerned about the significance of this story for their particular candidate.  It is entirely fair to raise that issue.  Why would someone take these electability concerns at face value if they come from someone who would never vote for Obama even if he were the Democratic nominee?

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Oh my are those weak attacks. If that's all McCain's got, you're right, that'll be Reagan/Mondale. McCain will be left carrying Arizona and... well, he'll do a bit better than Mondale in the deep south, but if this is the worst he's got, Wright and some ludicrous FARC and Muslim-garb stuff, he'll suffer a historic debate.

I'm amazed that, after all the slime that's been launched at the Clintons, you really think this would have the slightest effect.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-03-14 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

The people who defended Bill Clinton now come to tear apart Obama.  Amazing.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

There were plenty of Dems at the front of the line to tear apart Bill Clinton. Lieberman and Daschle come to mind.  
Let's be intellectually honest here--nobody likes to stand by their man when he has been caught doing something naughty.

except Hillary Clinton.

maybe Obama, now.

They may have this in common.

by hctb 2008-03-14 07:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Yes, but Lieberman (and to a lesser extent Daschle) is pretty disreputable around here, for obvious reasons.  I have a hard time understanding how people could tirelessly defend Bill Clinton but then be so willing to destroy our potential nominee, and by using the exact same guilt-by-association tactics that the Republicans used to smear him.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Okay, I think you are getting a little broad with your brush, RFahey.  I could list the large number of people who would not stand with Clinton in 1997, 1998 but would ask him to raise dollars for them, but that is in the past and he is not running. Daschle should be mud here, but I will not go into the depths of his ineptitude and mediocrity,

I understand that it is easier to challenge someone's sincerity or Democrat-ness than to engage on the topic, but it comes off as an attempt to stop discussion or to thwart discussion.  I do not see you making similar comments when people pile on to Hillary Clinton who is also the potential nominee.  So, one cannot be frustrated by the efforts to tear down Obama if not showing the same outrage to a Hillary defamation.

by hctb 2008-03-14 08:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Well, I can't be in all places at all times, I'm sorry to say.  What motivates me to post most of the time are the recommended hit diaries (which are overwhelminly pro-Clinton) and the smears trotted out from them to the diaries on the front page.  I'm sure that you also have your own criteria for determining which posts to respond to, and I trust that partisans of either candidate can come to that candidate's defense.

The fact is that there has been precious little discussion here, just the garden-variety guilt-by-association that we suffered through for eight years during the Clinton Administration.  The method of the smear is exactly the same, even though the facts are different (and the Democratic base supported Clinton at that time - I'm not talking about politicians).  I mean, what discussion even takes place in the diary itself?  It quotes a NY Times article, then adds, "Hell yeah, hope we still can."  That's Pulitzer material right there.  The point of this diary isn't to foster discussion but to advance a particular opinion using the same tactics as Republicans have used to discredit us in the past.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 10:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

And Dean lost it for screaming.  Politics can be a very delicate thing.  People have certainly been ruined for less.  Hey, I am a Hillary supporter and even I feel bad that this minister has become such an issue. For one, it just gives a wider voice to his views which I don't really think is helpful at all.

by JustJennifer 2008-03-14 07:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Whoa.  I guess we're on the same wavelength.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

"Politics can be a very delicate thing."

Only for people who ate too much lead paint.

For the rest of us, politics is like balancing our check book.

In fact, it is balancing our checkbook.

Sorry that you live in a fairy pony land.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 07:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

"Politics can be a very delicate thing."
Only for people who ate too much lead paint.
For the rest of us, politics is like balancing our check book.  In fact, it is balancing our checkbook.  Sorry that you live in a fairy pony land."

Ask Al Gore and John Kerry if they agree.  And that is only two recent examples.  

by JustJennifer 2008-03-14 09:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

And the "Dean scream" gave us Kerry in the first place, because the Democratic establishment cowered in fear of the rightwing spin machine.  Spin it however you want, but arguing from a position of fear about what the Republicans may or may not do in the fall is defeatist and sad.  

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

There was more to the Dean thing than the screaming, but that certainly didn't help.  And is it really sad to know what the Republicans are capable of (which I will point to 2000 as the more scary example) and to want the candidate that you think will best withstand that?  

by JustJennifer 2008-03-14 07:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

But that is not how the decision-making process works.  That sort of reflexive thinking leads to Democrats choosing the "safe" candidate, not necessarily the "best" one.  Then, when the "safe" candidate can't capture the imagination of independent voters in the fall, we wonder why.  

There is only so much that one can internalize the presumed rightwing attacks before the Republicans are essentially choosing our candidate for us.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

they were both bad candidates. Lets not get into an argument about which one sucked a little less.

by hctb 2008-03-14 07:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Dean was already on his losing streak when he screamed !!

by SevenStrings 2008-03-14 08:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Well, since the swiftboaters have you guys on their side...

by Dave Sund 2008-03-14 07:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

The most offensive thing to me (and I rarely go to church anymore) was the part where the pastor damned America.

It was as if he were damning ME. I served 6 yrs (in the 80's) proudly and lucky CARTER didn't take us into a needless BS war.

re; Trinity Church - I would report ANY church that drew politics into it's teachings as that is a NO NO - they are TAX exempt - seperate - supposedly. The IRS will be looking into this.

Why should they NOT pay taxes if they are preaching politics?

I would have reported them.  Shameful. jmo.

by CarolinaDawn 2008-03-14 07:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Does the fact that this preacher was a Marine affect your viewpoint at all?  Just curious.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I did hear that part and it only made me more surprised!

I thought Marines were more loyal to America than us Grunts in the Army were............  lol funny huh?

Maybe this guy is just "bonkers"  I mean in some of the videos he looked almost rabid!

BO needed to do a better job distancing himself from this guy maybe last year not this year.

The FAUX news msm talked about it all night.  Each segment. It was brutal but very telling about how the Right is already in a frenzy over this.

by CarolinaDawn 2008-03-14 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

did hear that part and it only made me more surprised!

I thought Marines were more loyal to America than us Grunts in the Army were............  lol funny huh?

Did anyone ever call you "boy" while you were wearing your uniform?

Did you ever have to ride on the back of a bus after having risked your life for this country?

Did you ever have to check to make sure you weren't going in the 'wrong' restroom after having seen combat?

I'm not excusing his remarks, but let's face it, this man's experience of America is different from the vast majority of Americans. And I gather a lot of AAs consider him a sell-out.

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-14 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

oh PUHLEASE!

BO has NEVER been called a BITCH or a WHORE or a SLUT or a C*&T

or pushed around in a crowd
or had his BALZ (OR Arse in my case) pinched as he walked through a crowd of ROWDY GI's (of all colors)  well I can't swear to that but I am pretty confident

give me a FRIGGEN break
he has NO clue what its like to be a W O M A N

A N Y W H E R E!!

by CarolinaDawn 2008-03-14 07:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

My mistake. I was trying to engage you in an actual conversation.

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-14 07:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

"let's face it, this man's experience of America is different from the vast majority of Americans."

Yeah, women in the military, putting their lives on the line for their country, get sexually harrassed and RAPED while in uniform, by their own male counterparts. Never mind being called far worse than "girl".

Lots of people are treated badly, and while they have a right to their anger, it doesn't excuse turning into racist demagogues who abuse their position of power and authority as a pastor.

by 07rescue 2008-03-14 11:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I'm not excusing his remarks,

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-15 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Carolina Dawn = Concern Troll

You need to fake it better next time.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 07:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

A troll because????????

I'm being honest?
I'm not drinking the Barackoolaid?

I'm for HILLARY?

which is it?

by CarolinaDawn 2008-03-14 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I've been watching this Pastor Wright flap with amusement, and it's becoming clear that the Hillarites are all over it because that's all they've got.  Obama just whuppped ass in a couple more primaries, it's a long, long way to Pennsylvania, Hillary is way behind in pledged delegates and the popular vote, and there is a steady drip, drip, drip of superdelegates going into the Obama column.

The Democratic Party elders are watching, and the very last thing they want is three more months of ugly.  They are going to start pulling the necessary levers to bring an end to the carnage.  And the Clinton campaign will have only themselves to blame for driving the Party into the ditch.

So my sympathies go out to you desperate Hillary folks tonite--  if I were in your shoes I'd be scrapping for every bit of good news as well, even if I had to get on my knees and crawl in the gutter looking for it.

by global yokel 2008-03-14 07:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

No, we're all over it because it shows that Obama
is the sham we thought he was. His unity message is bullsh*t, his race-baiting of Clinton has gone too far, his cult-like followers have been too mean.

http://noratings.blogspot.com/

by JFK464 2008-03-14 07:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Good luck with that meme, Clinton isn't winning the nom because dems know she is unelectable in the fall.

by kasjogren 2008-03-14 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I assure you that the mythical "Democratic Party elders" are not reacting to the events of the last couple days by saying, "We need to nominate this guy and move on to the general election as fast as possible!!!"

by Steve M 2008-03-14 07:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

You assure us? You must have some awesome links to go with that assurance.

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-14 07:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I have an awesome link to reality.

Good luck finding a single "Democratic Party elder" who is so confident this issue is going nowhere that they don't even want to wait to find out.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Well, the next 3-4 days will prove who's right.  If dozens of super delegates come out for Obama this weekend, you'll be proven right, Blue.  If not, then Steve M is right.

by markjay 2008-03-14 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Well, I think if "dozens of super-delegates" break for Clinton, or abandon Obama, Steve M will be proven right, unless you have some evidence that "dozens of superdelegates" were going to declare for Obama but have changed their minds.

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-14 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

What I am saying is that any intelligent Democrat (and there are a couple) will wait to see how this thing plays out, not rush to shut the primary process down as quickly as possible.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 07:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Um, you just tilted the terms of the argument almost completely in your favor.  I don't think dozens of superdelegates are going to fall out of the trees for anyone, regardless of the headlines.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Hillary has nothing to do with this.  BO, imo in his interviews tonight did nothing tos ettle this matter. He made some statments that seemed inconsistent or had the effect of one having to suspend believability.

He expects the public to believe that after going to this church for 20 yrs and after having this pastor involved in so many critical, personal events of his life that he didn't know about his divisive and bigoted sermons AND he had never heard any of them.

BO talks openly about his minister in his book and says that he is his spiritual adviser.  Most Americans are fair minded. We don't agree on everything but one thing all Americans agree on is that you don't diss and spit on America.

The irony of all irony is that BO got all the benefits that poor, Black Americans don't get.

I guarantee that talk show radio will be all over this again on Monday.

by shark 2008-03-14 07:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

The irony of all irony is that BO got all the benefits that poor, Black Americans don't get.

Shark,

I am sure all of your hundreds of poor black friends appreciate your heartfelt concerns for their welfare in the face of the evil, rich, uppity, jetsetting Obama Man who cares naught about the poor black folk.

How's your blog at RedState coming along ?

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 08:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

What really disgusts me is that you believe your own b.s. The fact that Obama actually is to the right of Hillary on any number of domestic policies will never sink into your thick skull.

by Inky 2008-03-14 09:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

To paraphrase Hillary, its more than just words. Hillary's rhetoric has moved to the left because she saw the nomination slipping through her hands. She will move to the right when she sees the same thing happening with the general.

Hillary's "35 years of experience" give me no reason to believe she would be more progressive or effective than Obama, even if she has tried to make her rhetoric fit the fight shes in.  

by AllergicToBS 2008-03-14 11:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

The Democratic party leaders will be stupid not to let this primary go on.  They need to have a viable alternative to BO as there is many things that we don't know about him.

We will have to see in PA how white men, independents and republican leaning voters go. I know that PA is a closed primary but I hope that the exit data asked if you switched registration, which party did you belong to.

by shark 2008-03-14 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

"They need to have a viable alternative to BO as there is many things that we don't know about him."

Like proper verb conjugation?

by kasjogren 2008-03-14 07:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Are you implying this dust up is the doing of the Clinton campaign, and that therefore the party elders will step in and quash it?  In my opinion you are mistaken.  They can't stop it and it's not a product of the Clinton campaign.  Certainly I have seen no evidence of that.

I am a very left wing individual and apart from the obvious stupidity and falsity of the AIDS claim there is a lot in the posted diaries that resonates with me some, particularly living in Detroit: America has a deep problem with racism most people, including many Dems, want to ignore or confine to the past, and American foreign policy is awful, by and large, just as we would expect from the world's most powerful nation (it has never been otherwise).  While there is not a single picogram of justification for the 9-11 mass murder, US policy does help to create an environment in which murderers can find recruits etc and which truly does drive conflict in the 3rd world and truly does abet the humiliation of many Arabic and Muslim peoples.  All this hand wringing about how can you sit in the pews, take your kids there really, really rubs me the wrong way (yes, more so than that ass Wright) because, in my opinion, it evidences a willful ignorance about political realities in much of urban America and our country's role in the world.

But as a rational person at least I recognize I am (sadly) in the minority on these foreign policy issues and can acknowledge this will likely hurt Obama, badly.  

Steve M has said about the only (ok, most) intelligent thing on this issue in the last two days: The only question is can Obama manage the political fallout?  That is the question we should be exploring.

If the answer is no, all this Sturm und Drang, both ways, will be irrelevant.

If the answer is yes, the man cannot be beat by Jesus H. Christ and should take out a patent on Obamateflon.

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-03-14 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Hey, you're too kind!

Maybe Rev. Wright can deliver next year's State of the City address, wink wink.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Mayor Kilpatrick can't leave fast enough for my tastes.

Since I actually live in Hamtramck, I won't get to help vote him out, and I mention that because I honestly think he is prepared to bring down the house around him and won't leave until voted out.  Sad.  Very sad.

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-03-14 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I feel like there are too many community leaders, both white and black, who are determined not to let him make this a racial thing.  We all know where the city has been and none of us want to go back.

I hope this thing gets better and not worse by the time the do-over primary happens in June.  I sure do not want to have another election in an atmosphere that feels like Mississippi.

by Steve M 2008-03-14 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I thought that too, and certainly the pressure is increasing.

But the "attack my family" and "lynch mob" in the address convinced me not that he will rally enough folks to his defense but that he feels like some kind of victim and will fight on against those evil haters. And as the ranks of "haters" grows, he will become ever more self-righteous and indignant.  And Detroit's terrible media (worst ever?) will continue to make this a salacious story when the issue is perjury, punitive firings, and hush money, as you know.  The media is setting up his frame: "My family is hurting because of my infidelity and attacking me is attacking them".  I'm just waiting for the Kenyatta & Cockrel = Oreos bombs to start dropping

My only hope is his mom has an interest in protecting the name and will bring her son to his senses.

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-03-14 08:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

oh my gosh

you need to take a pill and lay down

please get out from behind that bubble you are living in

it's much worse than you think

by CarolinaDawn 2008-03-14 07:34PM | 0 recs
All Racism is Evil

Black or white, we've all encountered racist people in our lives. How do we know they're racist? Because they can't help themselves. They let their hate out slowly, testing the waters, and then perhaps feeling safe from censure, they make public pronouncements, at dinner tables, card games, or from the pulpit. We all have known these people. We ignore them, avoid them, or try to silence them. But we don't consciously try to see them every week for 20 years and call them our spiritual advisers.

http://noratings.blogspot.com/

by JFK464 2008-03-14 07:15PM | 0 recs
Re: All Racism is Evil

Give it up, dood. Your "argument" makes no sense internally. Trying to conflate white bigotry and what this minister said is just plain stupid. It's stupid on the level of a white guy saying "how come I can't say n*gger when it's allright for those black guys."

This is below 6th grade dialogue here.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 08:24PM | 0 recs
Re: All Racism is Evil

Thanks, dood. So the internal logic of your comment is that racism is OK if the person is not white?

What the minister said, as the subject line on post reads, was equally as odious as any white racism.

Do you reject all racism or only when it comes from whites?

by JFK464 2008-03-15 06:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

For anyone who hasn't clicked on the link, the NYT article is from April '07, and it says Obama had already distanced himself from Wright a year ago.

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-14 07:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

It pretty much says that Obama knew Wright would become an issue about a year ago.  And yet Obama went ahead and included Wright on his campaign team.  Doesn't really show good judgment to  me.

by DaveOinSF 2008-03-14 07:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I cannot believes this man remained a member of Obama's campaign until today.

by truthteller2007 2008-03-14 07:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Well, he has wright and hill has Penn...

by kasjogren 2008-03-14 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Penn does not claim to be connected to any word of God, as far as I know.  I think he prays at the alter of winning. It seems that is one of the many problems people have with him.

Kasjogren, you really are trying to deflect this back to Hillary, but why? Do you think she is controlling this story? Do you have any evidence that this is her? When did Hillary become the enemy?

by hctb 2008-03-14 07:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

no no no, I am simply comparing the level of idiotic things advisors say.  

by kasjogren 2008-03-14 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Not sure if everyone caught this part...

"If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me," Mr. Wright said with a shrug. "I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen."

This is Wright talking, not Obama.  But do you suppose Obama really could have believed none of this could become an issue in a Democratic primary?  (If so, I blame Jerome Armstrong for ruining it all.)

by Steve M 2008-03-14 07:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

IMO, he didn't think that Wright would be a big problem, at least in the primary, or otherwise he wouldn't have put him on his team. That or he's incredibly clueless about campaigns.

by Ga6thDem 2008-03-14 07:25PM | 0 recs
Oh, please

Yes, we know unfair attacks are going to come, but we don't expect other Dems to pile on.

Obama's pastor said these things.  Not him.  You don't judge a man by one association - especially when everything else in his career shows he's committed to an entirely different kind of politics.

by TL 2008-03-15 04:41AM | 0 recs
Beating a dead horse

doesn't make it any more dead.  Isn't that a 1 year old article?

by bigdcdem 2008-03-14 07:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

How is it dead?  He said in countless interviews tonight this guy is like his uncle, a part of him family.  And Michelle Obama's speeches are just a sanitized version of this stuff.  "First time I'm proud, America is so mean, I want to scratch Bill Clinton's eyes out."  How is Obama a unity candidate when his wife, uncle/preacher and his church is so angry?

by vic0826 2008-03-14 07:25PM | 0 recs
TL2

TL2

That was a favorite expression of Richard Nixon henchman Bob Haldemann.  It stands for too little, too late.

Americans just are not going to judge candidates based on thier selective quotes from thier pastors.  It just reinforces Obama's image as a man on faith and principle.  You guys tried this stuff in South Carolina.  The result was that Bill Clinton was tarneshed forever and Hillary lost by 20 points.  

TL2 (and Haldeman did time in jail).

by howardpark 2008-03-14 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: TL2

KSI....It's my favorite expression about you: Keep Smoking It.

Your man is toast.

by JFK464 2008-03-14 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: TL2

"You guys," huh?  You can't recognize a right-wing attack when you see one?

by Steve M 2008-03-14 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: TL2

Yeah, we sure can.

We can also recognize when so-called Democrats are amplifying a right-wing attack.

Congratulations. MyDD has become the Drudge Report.

by Dave Sund 2008-03-14 07:40PM | 0 recs
Re: TL2

Oh my god you are so so SO wrong. Watch what happens in the next few weeks and learn something about American politics. And you known what? It's really gonna suck and be unfair. But this is how it works. It happened to Clinton when one of his affairs came out right before New Hampshire (can't remember which one). It happened to Kerry when he did his infamous "I was for it before I was against it." One came through the other end by fighting his way through. The other didn't. We'll see what Barack's got inside of him. If he doesn't handle this well, he may not only lose PA, he may not even make it that far.

by ColoradoGuy 2008-03-14 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: TL2

t happened to Clinton when one of his affairs came out right before New Hampshire (can't remember which one).

Gennifer Flowers.

What ever happened to that Clinton fella after he lost the primary and general election, anyway?

Or was it the draft stories that killed his campaign?

Anyway, it just proves that the thing to do is drape ourselves in mourning, bow our little heads, and let Rush and Sean and Bill-O tell us what to thinking.

(And yes, I did read your whole post. And I agree. Let's all take a deep breath and see how this plays out. I myself don't think this is fatal).

by BlueinColorado 2008-03-14 07:44PM | 0 recs
Re: TL2

"You guys tried this stuff in South Carolina."

Excuse me?

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-03-14 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

God damn Wright!

by gotalife 2008-03-14 07:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Jerome, you do realize that by writing (at least) two article about this that you're actively contributing to it NOT going away, right?

Spare us the "Hell yeah, hope we still can." BS, because you don't hope anything of the sort.  Absolutely shameful.

by EvilCornbread 2008-03-14 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

No, we DON'T want it swept under any rugs and made to "go away." This is a cancer. You ignore it it just comes back. We have to deal with it NOW and strongly, or we need a different candidate. Jerome (and many others) are doing the party a big favor.

by ColoradoGuy 2008-03-14 07:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

And by "deal with it", you mean attempt to run Obama out of the race, right?

by EvilCornbread 2008-03-14 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Colorado Guy -- speak in code often ?

We don't speak racist cracker code here. You need to speak more clearly.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

This isn't a simple issue that is just going to go away.  The problem with Wright and his sermons runs deeper than whether Obama shares the opinions Wright expresses or Obama's long association with Wright.  Wright's speeches reveal a deep hatred for white America - a hatred that can also be glimpsed in some of Michelle Obama's comments as well as some of the diatribes of some other noted AA leaders.  See http://jackandjillpolitics.blogspot.com/ 2008/02/sobu-dick-gregory-goes-off-on-bi ll.html

If Obama and his campaign had refrained from accusing the Clintons or Ferraro of being racists.  If Obama had said that neither they nor their statements were racist (which they weren't), but instead were misconstrued.  If Obama hadn't played the victim card, he could have disassociated himself from this white hatred that he is tied to by virtue of his association with Wright. But Obama didn't do that (and in fact it appears his campaign planted the racist charges).  Once Obama placed himself in the victim box, he inextricably tied himself and his candidacy to this white hatred and words of renunciation alone aren't going to help.

So now we're in a situation where if Obama doesn't win the nomination, the Democrats risk an onslaught of white hatred and if he does win the nomination, he'll lose the GE because people will be too afraid to put someone in the White House who is tied to this white hatred.  

Obama did not take the high road when he accused the Clintons and Ferraro of being racists (and by not denying it he accused them).  The Clintons have long been champions of the AA community.  They are not racists and everyone knows that.  It was wrong of Obama to play to the sensitivities of the AA community in order to garner votes.  Now it looks like he may have doomed America to another four years of Republican rule for that error in judgment.

by suskin 2008-03-14 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Where did he accuse the Clintons or Ferraro of being racists?  I would love to see that quote, because I'm pretty sure that none exists.  Clinton herself said that Ferraro's comments had no place in the campaign - I guess she's accusing Ferraro of being a racist, too, according to your definition.

by rfahey22 2008-03-14 07:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?
Obama did not take the high road when he accused the Clintons and Ferraro of being racists (and by not denying it he accused them).

Got a reference for when he did that?
by EvilCornbread 2008-03-14 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

[quote If Obama and his campaign had refrained from accusing the Clintons or Ferraro of being racists.  If Obama had said that neither they nor their statements were racist (which they weren't), but instead were misconstrued.]

[quote Obama did not take the high road when he accused the Clintons and Ferraro of being racists (and by not denying it he accused them).]

Do you actually believe this?

Seriously?

Obama and his campaign have accused the Clintons of being racists when? Cite please? Arguments from assertion and circular logic like the TNR hit piece do not count as evidence.

There has been one unequivocal piece of race-baiting in this campaign. One. It came from Geraldine Ferraro. It could have been that she just spoke poorly and was misconstrued. It could have... if she hadn't repeated it as often as she could, defended it, and took it on right-wing talk radio. There is absolutely no way you get to blame Obama for it. I also don't blame Clinton for it; she denounced it (not to the standard she held Obama to over Farrakhan, but still). I don't consider either Clinton to be racists. I also don't consider Ferraro to be a racist; she's a politician using fervent race-baiting to the end of supporting her chosen candidate. It's despicable, but not racist. If she actually believed her piffle, it would be racist.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-03-14 07:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Are you really so naive and gullible that you don't think Obama and his campaign played the racist victim card?

by suskin 2008-03-14 09:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

If he did, and I disagree; the only evidence I've seen of it comes from a truly amazingly poorly written TNR article; but if he did, it completely pales in comparison to what Ferraro has done.

He may, possibly, have played the race card... the evidence seems to be completely assertion.

She's gone out and blown the race-baiting dog-whistle all over the place, including right-wing talk radio.

Any claim of race-card playing must take into account what Ferraro's done first. Compared it it, nothing else is within a couple orders of magnitude.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-03-14 10:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Look you guys, we can have a President who belongs to a church where the Pastor said some wacky, angry stuff in 2003, or we can elect a woman who voted to give George Bush free rein to attack Iraq and Iran, and then continued to defend her decision even after it was apparent to everyone on earth that the results were catastrophic.  600,000 dead Iraqis, 3000 dead Americans, trillions of dollars of new debt, and you guys have your shorts in a twist because Obama's Pastor said some stuff five years ago?  WTF?

Me, I'm taking the guy with the unruly Pastor as my President.  If you really believe that America is better off with a woman who rolled over twice for GW Bush on something as serious as war, than it's apparent that we have dramatically different values, and there probably isn't any reason to continue the conversation.

by global yokel 2008-03-14 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

You and a few hardy souls, no doubt. But that ain't coming anywhere close to 50% of the American electorate. Doesn't that matter?

by ColoradoGuy 2008-03-14 07:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Sorry, but if you think Hillary is palatable to the general masses and they'll flock to vote for her I'd like to tell you that I'm a Nigerian diplomat and I'd like you to empty your bank account for me.

by Oregonian 2008-03-14 07:55PM | 0 recs
maybe we can live the Wright, but can voters?

as i'm sure most progressive Hill supporters even on this board know Barack isn't really a racist, but if electablility is the issue, then the fact is, its about what American voters, the swing and middle american voters who don't give insight into this stuff, who just read the paper and watch TV make of all of this. This racist pastor stuff isn't exactly material which will make them think "gee i guess I'll overlook the fact the Obama hangs out for 20 years with a guy who blamed white racism for 9/11, who said Christ was a black oppressed by rich whites(likened him to Obama), who says the government invented AIDS to kill blacks, and that Hillary 'aint' never been called a n****r". If your best friend hung out for 20 years with a man who was preaching such racist hate, how would you take to him? Now I know Obama just went to the church for politics, but average American voters will not just understand its politics. I too wish Hillary would have had the sense not to vote for Iraq, but these are the best candidates we got. Al Gore was by far my first choice in that he opposed it from the start AND proved himself electable against an opponent who was beating him in polls since 1997, before Lewinsky http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/09/1 2/poll/ even tho he was beating Kemp et al. He also is real, Obama may be proven to be a phony on unity, and knows little about policy. But Obama and Clinton are what we got, and I like Clinton better. But if Obama pulls this out after this, I will genuinely be slightly impressed, but not fully cuz the media will help him, and if he is the nominee, I will go out and vote for him, and I'd expect all Hillary supporters to do so if Obama wins the nomination.

by DiamondJay 2008-03-14 07:52PM | 0 recs
Re: maybe we can live the Wright, but can voters?

Diamond Jay --

It is a simple fact that Hillary Clinton has never been called a nigger. This is not racism. It is fact. Stop conflating fact with your fantasies.

And it is quite possible that Jesus Christ was black. And virtually 100 percent certain that he was as darkly complected as what was considered by law to be black in the U.S. South up until the end of Jim Crow segregation. Again, the facts are not on your side.

On these points, the facts are on the side of the minister.

Read some W.E.B. Dubois. Souls of Black Folk is a good place to start.

Cheers.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 08:16PM | 0 recs
voters don't care, or wanna hear it

because those are not mainstream views which win elections, no matter how true they are. And Hillary being called that word is not anyone's fantasy.

by DiamondJay 2008-03-14 08:27PM | 0 recs
Re: voters don't care, or wanna hear it

Diamond Jay -- with all respect, you are an idiot.

The fact is that under Louisiana law until the 1960s, even 1/32nd "black" ancestry made you a Black under the state law, Jesus Christ would be considered a black by law.

If that fact bothers you, take up Young Earth Creationism.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 08:38PM | 0 recs
well do you think American voters

want a President who they think may believe that? no matter how true it may be, and maybe it does have truth, average american voters are scared of such ideas. a candidate who is perceived to believe in things in many things that American voters don't, he will lose. This thread is about politics, and who can win, not who is correct on Jesus's race.

by DiamondJay 2008-03-14 08:50PM | 0 recs
Re: voters don't care, or wanna hear it

Wow, you are a paragon of respectfulness, Watts.

by hctb 2008-03-14 08:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Point of Information: 4000 dead Americans (If you mean Iraq)

by hctb 2008-03-14 08:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

The Republicans are extremely good at building story lines. First it was the flag pin and the pledge of allegiance. (Silly stories, right.) Then Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam was added to the mix. (The plot thickens.)  Michelle Obama kindly helped build the story with her "first time in her adult life that she was proud to be an American" line. (Personal tie in) The videos of Rev. Wright are another installment. (Visual proof to add creditability) How many more installments are yet to be added between now and November?

This is not looking good.

by MOBlue 2008-03-14 07:37PM | 0 recs
Concern Troll much?

Your answer to all racism and sexism is to blame the victim for speaking up about it.

That has worked so well in the past, dearie.

With all deliberate speed, Booker T.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Jump To Conclusions Much?

My comment didn't blame anyone. It merely depicted the attack that was IMO being developed by the Republicans to use against Obama.

Now you may think attacking me will somehow make this a non-issue. Good luck with that. Ignoring what the Republicans are doing has worked so well in the past, dearie.

by MOBlue 2008-03-14 09:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Is this the FOX news comment site that I bumped into?

Is this a concerted effort by My DD commenters to disengage their brains?

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Black Churches

Look, I'm AA and go to a predominantly black church. I'm not surprised at what Rev. Wright said as it is along the lines that many preachers in black churches say. However, I am not going to say that Obama knew about these comments because I often miss services ( I know, I'm sorry) and then I might hear months later about what my preacher did. I don't always condone what my preacher says but it doesn't mean I have to disavow him.  I think that most church goers can relate to this. I don't think it's going to be a huge problem unless there is video tape of Barack Obama jumping up and down during one of Rev. Wright's infamous sermons.

by kristannab 2008-03-14 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Black Churches

Your voice doesn't count because, like Michelle Obama, you obviously hate all white people.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 08:02PM | 0 recs
Jerome thinks your pastor is a monster

.

by Teaser 2008-03-14 08:28PM | 0 recs
So what's next, Obama read Malcolm X?

Nation of Islam was a black separatist church.

Malcolm X was a member.

So was Muhammad Ali.

So that means, by Jerome's Law, that a huge chunk of Americans are rabid racists because they have yet to publicly denounce Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali.

And let's not even talk about Kareem Abdul Jabaar ...

Sum U fokes R pathetic. Rilly.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 08:01PM | 0 recs
Re: So what's next, Obama read Malcolm X?

No what's pathetic is Obama brings his little girls to listen to his preacher "God Damn America", talk about riding dirty and blaming HIV and 9/11 on the US.  

by vic0826 2008-03-14 08:11PM | 0 recs
Re: So what's next, Obama read Malcolm X?

Give it a rest. You cannot even conduct an intellectual conversation. In fact, the thought of one scares you.

Read a book. Start with W.E.B. Dubois. Soul of Black Folk.

You might learn something.

Cheers.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 08:19PM | 0 recs
Re: So what's next, Obama read Malcolm X?

Should be required reading in every American grade school classroom.

"...darkly as through a veil"

Great book, great man.

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-03-14 08:31PM | 0 recs
Re: So what's next on myDLC?

The Reverend said something that is essentially true: most Americans live in a bubble of self-indulgence and narcissism that, by the way, is about to burst. He said this in a clumsy and off putting way, at least for the average American, but that does not make it less true. Americans need to try a little harder to live up to their own self-image. They need to take a good look at the carnage and suffering brought to many parts of the world by American imperialism.

It is patriotic to want a better America and to speak the truth from time to time. I believe that Obama probably loves this county more than any of the righteous hypocrites who decry criticism and are unwilling to set a higher standard for our country.

by anothergreenbus 2008-03-14 08:22PM | 0 recs
Re: So what's next, Obama read Malcolm X?

No. What's pathetic is that he brings his children to listen to this guy.

by vic0826 2008-03-14 08:59PM | 0 recs
Re: So what's next, Obama read Malcolm X?

couldn't agree more.  Jerome's posts on this are to put it kindly, tendentious.  Nobody pinned Joe Kennedy's isolationism or questionable business practices on his son.  And for you Geraldine/Hillary fans I would point out that Bill's treatment of young vulnerable women seems not to have impaired your ability to  support Hillary.  And speaking of the delightful Geraldine, Jerome seems to miss some important differences here.  Geraldine and Bill have together been engaged in a carefully choreographed attempted to reach down and ever so gently pluck the chords of resentment many working class white people feel.  I know.  I'm white; I'm 54 and I've seen this act before.  Unlike Hillary who was awfully slow on the draw in distancing herself of Gerry, no one can accuse Obama of trying to benefit from Wright's lunacy.  Indeed what benefit?  Again, Jerome needs to carefully consider a campaign and candidate that tries to pick at old racial wounds.

by jorgeelgato 2008-03-14 09:10PM | 0 recs
The right thing to do

Elsewhere in this thread, there's a debate raging over whether people piling on this are acting like right-wing talk radio hosts or whether that's being silly, that the right-wing hosts will still do what they'll do.

Both miss the point.

The right thing to do is this: this is still the most likely nominee of the Democratic party for President. Clinton supporters, you know this. You may hate it, but you know it's true.

The right thing to do is to make it plain that Obama has done exactly the right thing in denouncing the negative views of Wright; that these views are unacceptable and we as a party reject them, and stand behind one of our candidates' denunciation of them.

This is a time for the Democratic party to take a big step forward in inoculating ourselves against any such things in the future, any such allegations. Forcefully and directly reject the politics of guilt by friendship. Accept that the supporter of a candidate may have skeletons in their past that do not tar that candidate (are you listening, people whose supporters include Ferraro and Spitzer?); that it's possible for even those who are relatively close to be unaware of every remark that their friend has made, especially remarks many years in the past.

Or we can choose to divide up, make political hay from this, damage one nominee, damage the party, and risk a loss in 2008.

I believe Obama can and will rise above this. In the immortal words: there really is no there there. We're debating words that were said many years in the past, words that were said at times it's virtually certain that Barack Obama and his family were not there.

We let ourselves fall into an even more destructive cycle of politics if we fall for this. This is not an issue this election will hang on unless we as a party make it one. This is not a winning issue in a year where the economy, the war, health care, and many other things are major issues.

But if we go nuts and tear each other up, then it's an issue.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-03-14 08:06PM | 0 recs
Re: The right thing to do

"This is not an issue this election will hang on unless we as a party make it one. "

Are you kidding? We are not living in a little bubble. How can you think we alone on this little blog will in any way determine the outcome of the 2008 election? No matter how much we say it doesn't matter when the Republican 527s start pounding on this story it will not just have legs, it will have wings, and the jet propulsion. They would be crazy to overlook this gold mine.

What a few [relative] leftists on a blog think will do nothing to mollify the vast majority of Americans who will feel revolted by the videos of Reverend Wright. It may do more to polarize the country racially than anything we have seen in recent history

by 07rescue 2008-03-15 01:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Departed Obama aide Power listed as host of Su

That cannot be real.  The DCCC had to pull Albright from fund raisers for months after that whole port deal. He cannot be putting her on the ground as a principal. That could be an old invitation and she has been replaced by a non-monster spouting principal.

by hctb 2008-03-14 08:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

The irony of all this is that McCain itself (I know he will let Republicans use it as a talking point but still) is on the record saying this is a BS story and he knows Obama does not believe any of this.

How ironic is it that Jerome A. attacks Obama harder than John McCain.

by Benjaminomeara 2008-03-14 08:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Sad but true.

by anothergreenbus 2008-03-14 08:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillaryis44

Not as bad as that website. Of course I'm nosy to see what others are saying but, yikes.  They praise Sean Hannity over there. I thought we were all Dems at the end of the day?

by kristannab 2008-03-14 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

It won't matter what McCain believes. it matters what the republican 527's will use to beat Obama. He cannot win the GE with this as baggage.

by americanincanada 2008-03-14 08:30PM | 0 recs
Re: I doubt it

McCain has quite a bit of baggage. Keating 5, Cindy's stealing drugs from orphans, lobbyists, he's an old coot...

by kristannab 2008-03-14 08:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Of course McCain is going to play the story down now. Why should he want Obama to receive a body blow before his nomination is in the bag?

by Inky 2008-03-14 09:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

"The irony of all this is that McCain itself (I know he will let Republicans use it as a talking point but still) is on the record saying this is a BS story"

The essential Republican strategy is to have the candidate keep his hands clean while the 527s and other ancillary right wing attack groups do all the dirty work of completely trashing Obama. Of course McCain will say something pleasant for people to hear, and appear to be above the fray. He wants to appear presidential.

by 07rescue 2008-03-15 01:12AM | 0 recs
Hillary's Free Ride

Hillary Clinton was (and perhaps is) a member of right-wing fundamentalist prayer meetings and also of the shadowy, elitist, fundamentalist and righist "Fellowship." Are you sure she's been vetted?

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id =23858
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/a rchives/2006/12/hillary_clinton_4.html

by AdrianLesher 2008-03-14 08:24PM | 0 recs
You make an intesting point

But the problem is that in American political culture there is almost no degree of bat-sh*t craziness that a white Christian can believe that is politically disqualifying.  I mean, c'mon, that's 3/4 of the GOPers in Congress.  

For instance, McCain paid no price at all for soliciting the endorsement of a guy who called Catholicism "The Great Whore", Bob Jones U is a key stop on the GOPer primary trail, etc.

I have been an atheist from my earliest days and all this stuff explains why that view makes sense - at least to me!

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-03-14 08:42PM | 0 recs
someone got his blast fax late tonight.

.

by Teaser 2008-03-14 08:26PM | 0 recs
Foreseen a Year Ago...

A year ago, this problem was in fact foreseen.  By Steve Sailer, Nazi.  He's been researching and writing and dredging this stuff up for the past year.  In fact, there's a pretty disturbing similarity between his stories and some of the diaries around here.

Just a bit ago in fact, Universal accidentally posted a diary with a link to one of the White Supremacist sites this guy writes for... apparently without even noticing who she was linking to. (Oops!)

I think it's time for some of you two wake up to exactly where these attacks are coming from.  Stop celebrating.  These attacks on Obama originated in the far far right wing, amongst quite literally, Neo-Nazi's.  

It's now being dredged up by Fox and the MSM, and worst of all, Democrats and progressives so desperate for an 11th hour scandal to derail Obama and clear the way for Hillary that they're not even paying attention to where this stuff is coming from, or the potential damage it could do to our party in the Fall.

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 08:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Foreseen a Year Ago...

I saw Washington Post, wikipedia, Chicago Tribune, and Fox News.  Now, Fox News is bad, but not sure its a white supremacist site.

What site are you talking about?

by Trond Jacobsen 2008-03-14 08:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Foreseen a Year Ago...

Read the thread.  Universal edited out the link in the diary after someone pointed out it was a White Supremacist organization.  

by Brillobreaks 2008-03-14 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Obama cannot lie, as he did tonight during every interview, and expect no one will call him on it. he said he had no idea that Rev. Wright preached such things as the bombing of Hiroshima and other such hatred about whites and this country. However, that is a lie. As evidence I give you a passage from 'The Audacity of Hope':

Again from Rich Lowry of NRO:

Wright in "Dreams of My Fathers" [Rich Lowry]

Before he ever thought he would have to deploy Clintonesque spin to try to get himself out of a campaign controversy, Barack Obama wrote (an achingly good) memoir. In the book, Obama makes it clear that Wright when he first got to know him was pretty much the same Wright we're getting to know now (the one that Obama is at pains to say is on the verge of retirement). Wright was striking some of the same notes, saying racially venomous things and attacking the bombing of Hiroshima. Note this passage about the first sermon Obama heard from Wright, the source ultimately of the title of Obama's second book and one of the central themes of his presidential campaign:

"Lord, we come first to thank you for what you've already done for us....We come to thank you most of all for Jesus. Lord, we come from different walks of life. Some considered high, and some low...but all on equal ground at the foot of this cross. Lord, thank you! For Jesus, Lord...our burden bearer and heavy load sharer, we thank you...."

The title of Reverend Wright's sermon that morning was "The Audacity of Hope." He began with a passage from the Book of Samuel--the story of Hannah, who, barren and taunted by her rivals, had wept and shaken in prayer before her God. The story reminded him, he said, of a sermon a fellow pastor had preached at a conference some years before, in which the pastor described going to a museum and being confronted by a painting title Hope.

"The painting depicts a harpist," Reverend Wright explained, "a woman who at first glance appears to be sitting atop a great mountain. Until you take a closer look and see that the woman is bruised and bloodied, dressed in tattered rags, the harp reduced to a single frayed string. Your eye is then drawn down to the scene below, down to the valley below, where everywhere are the ravages of famine, the drumbeat of war, a world groaning under strife and deprivation.

"It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, **where white folks' greed runs a world in need,** apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere...That's the world! On which hope sits!"

And so it went, a meditation on a fallen world. While the boys next to me doodled on their church bulletin, **Reverend Wright spoke of Sharpsville and Hiroshima, the callousness of policy makers in the White House and in the State House.** As the sermon unfolded, though, the stories of strife became more prosaic, the pain more immediate. The reverend spoke of the hardship that the congregation would face tomorrow, the pain of those far from the mountaintop, worrying about paying the light bill..."

by americanincanada 2008-03-14 08:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Do you have any idea what Sharpsville is?

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 10:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Yes, I do. Do you?

It is intolerant and ignorant of you to assume I do not.

by americanincanada 2008-03-14 10:11PM | 0 recs
AmericanCanadian

If you are quoting Rich Lowry of the NRO about Apartheid South Africa you are a racist. Give it up. The NRO and the U.S. Republican Party have always supported Apartheid. You are a racist.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 10:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

The Sharpesville Massacre took place in Sharpeville, South Africa on March 21, 1960 when white police killed 72 black people and injured 200 black people who were protesting racially based pass laws under South Africa's racist apartheid laws. The incident has since become known as the "Sharpesville Massacre."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpeville _Massacre
--

You really need to shut up now and read some books.

Thanks.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 10:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Instead of pumping up this little non-event of Obama's, you guys ought to devoting some energy to supporting your fellow Democrat by pointing out that in the past couple of hours the MSM has put greater focus on Pastor Wright than they have in weeks of coverage of that 'religious' creep John Hagee who is supporting McCain.

Trying to score some cheap points on Obama doesn't advance the Democratic Party one bit--
Putting the spotlight on a vile beast like Hagee would do us all some good.

by global yokel 2008-03-14 08:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

it is time we situate michelle obama's lack of patriotism in its proper context.  

by truthteller2007 2008-03-14 08:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

There is one aspect of one of Wright's remarks that strikes me as particularly ugly, but I haven't yet seen remarked anywhere.

Wright's comments on 9/11 mirror almost exactly an infamous comment by Malcolm X:

When asked for a comment about the assassination of President Kennedy in November 1963, Malcolm said that it was a case of "the chickens coming home to roost." He added that "Chickens coming home to roost never made me sad. It only made me glad." This remark prompted a widespread public outcry.

It's hard not to believe that Wright wasn't perfectly aware of that history. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't expect his audience to be aware of it as well.

by frankly0 2008-03-14 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

You might want to read the Autobiography of Malcolm X and about him. And then ponder what Malcolm X might have been thinking when he said that.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 09:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Like Obama or not, whatever you think of Pastor Wright, you have to give him credit he is fighting back hard and on multiple fronts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7piGy0u4 3c

(He taped the message denouncing Pastor Wright and is asking his supporters to circulate the video through email and so on).

He won't let people swiftboat him.

by Benjaminomeara 2008-03-14 08:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/ 2008/03/pelosis-delegat.html

Here's Nancy Pelosi with some really bad news for Hillary and her faithful.  

My sympathies to all...

by global yokel 2008-03-14 08:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

She has been saying this rowdy stuff for a few weeks now. They are all hoping and praying this doesn't go to the super delegates.

As for Nancy Pelosi putting the nail in Clinton's coffin with her "really bad news," I would pay money to see a showdown between Pelosi and Clinton. Where do I donate?  How can I upgrade to get a better seat?

As I said elsewhere, I understand that Pelosi is probably reticent to have Clinton in the white house (the Clintons have never shown much kindness to legislative leaders whether Democrat or Republican.) If she can swing it, a neophyte might look pretty good from where she is sitting. She might be able to push some stuff through that he is not a fan of as is so frequently done in the first cycle of a first termer.

I somehow think that Clinton probably paid attention to the "how to beat the legislature" lessons during Bill's administration. I think this is part of her ready on day one argument. Frankly, watching Nancy Pelosi get her lunch handed to her is but one of the many perks that comes with a Hillary presidency.

(I think she is a fine member but a poo Speaker, Madam Speaker or not. She is a helluva fund raiser, though.)

by hctb 2008-03-14 09:15PM | 0 recs
This is not a Coronation, sweetheart.

Pelosi has a lot more pull than Hillary.

Are you so delusional you put salt in your coffee and sugar on your corn?

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 10:24PM | 0 recs
Re: This is not a Coronation, sweetheart.

Pelosi wants to be Obama's VP.

by observer11 2008-03-14 11:55PM | 0 recs
Re: This is not a Coronation, sweetheart.

Wow, dougwatts, you are equal parts ill mannered and ill informed.

The caucus can be an ugly place when you push an agenda that they do not like and the Democratic caucus has already shown her the back of their hand a few time thus. If (when) she overplays her hand, she will be shunted aside.   She is doing a fine job managing the electoral side but a shit job legislatively and there are too many people waiting for her to collapse (Steny, Rahm is that you in the wings taking notes?). If the next session goes like this session and congressional approval continues to be under 35, Nancy Pelosi will be the casualty.

by hctb 2008-03-15 12:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

There are currently 79 uncommitted superdelegates in the House of Representatives (not counting Florida and Michigan).

If you do an analysis of the current pledged delegates, committed superdelegates,  do a projection of the remaining contests (using the Obama spreadsheet projections, for example, which have held up pretty well), and then do a projection of Add on Delegates, you will come up with a number of where about 50 more superdelegates committing to Obama makes it mathmatically impossible for Clinton to win on a first ballot (assuming the projections hold up going forward).

The problem that no one is talking about is there aren't that many uncommitted superdelegates left (267 according to data on DemConWatch). Using a reasonable projection, Clinton is going to need around 215 of them to secure the nomination - more than 80% of the remaining ones. That is a very, very steep hill to climb. Obama, on the other hand, would only need about 95, or approx 35% of the remaining total.

Assuming Pelosi has more than a little pull with those 79 Democratic congressmen and congresswoman, she very well could put this out of reach for Clinton if she choose.

by tysonpublic 2008-03-15 06:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

You know what's odd?  The media and the Hillary supporters are demanding the Obama disavow his relationship with his Pastor.  Yet nobody is calling for Hillary to denounce and divorce her husband, who is well known as a serial adulterer.
Why aren't the religious zealots up in arms about the fact that HRC continues to co-habitate with someone who disrespects the sacred institution of marriage?

WTF?

by global yokel 2008-03-14 09:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Wow, you equate adultery with race hatred.

Amazing. My mom always said that guys who hated Bill - much like those who hated the Kennedys - were just jealous.

She clearly was on to something.

by cath 2008-03-15 04:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

It's clear that you really know very little about Christian theology.

by Inky 2008-03-14 09:40PM | 0 recs
A modest proposal

What drives me crazy is how this could have been avoided so easily if Wright was the slightest bit media-savvy. Had he merely controlled his tongue and limited himself to advocating an attack on Iran to encourage massive worldwide Muslim attacks leading to a fulfillment of the biblical prophecy of end-times and bringing about Armageddon and the summary slaughter of every Jew, Muslim, Catholic, and non-believer on the planet while rapturing him and his flock up to heaven, then followed it up by denouncing Catholics as cult members and blaming Hurricane Katrina on gay people, this story wouldn't be metastasizing like this. One five minute milquetoast repudiation by Obama and it would all be behind him.

But what does Wright do instead? He spews this vile "God damn America" bile. What a psycho.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 09:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

This situation will only harm Obama's campaign if Democrats make it so.

Sure, the GOP will air this stuff and more. BUT -- if they did, they'd have to answer for Pat Robertson, Bob Jones, etc.

If Dems air this stuff, well, much less having to answer for.

That's why the GOP is LOVING this. They run it, and it's more GOP racist crap. Dems run it, it's now "bipartisan concern" and becomes all the more important in the eyes of the media, and harder to counter.

If the Clinton campaign and its supporters were truly concerned about ending the Bush legacy, they'd act accordingly. Not silencing concern, but handling it in such a way as to give the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT TO THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT, no matter which one it is.

By not doing so, you're backing a different horse.

I'll come back here in 2010, see how everyone is handling the McCain courts dismantling of Roe v. Wade. See how offended we still are about Pastor Wright.

by Lettuce 2008-03-14 09:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Yes, let's indulge the total fantasy that Democrats are the ones airing it because Jerome Armstrong wrote a diary, completely ignoring the all-day coverage on Fox News and the 24/7 hysteria from Rush, Hannity, and all the other wingnuts.  "The GOP doesn't have to air it, because we're doing it for them."  Please!

by Steve M 2008-03-14 11:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I was thinking more of the Ferrarro line, I think, but that's a fair comment.

by Lettuce 2008-03-15 07:44AM | 0 recs
if you can find out if that's true, that's imp

by chieflytrue 2008-03-14 10:15PM | 0 recs
TOO LATE

sorry for yelling but this is a sensitive topic for me.  I have gone to the same church for 10 years and I love the place the people and the Pastor.  They know I would leave if there were sermons that offended me.  They know I am pro-gay rights and that I would not be happy if I ever heard a sermon bashing that or any other group of people.

Where the hell does this guy get off going all fire and brimstone against Hillary from the pulpit?  WTF does he know about her life or what it is like to be a WOMAN in this country.  What does he know about what names she has been called?
Why does he only talk about the poor black MAN?  why not women?  Want to see the real face of discrimination, be a black woman.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-03-14 10:32PM | 0 recs
Re: TOO LATE

your comment  is disingenuous. If the pastor gives a real sermon, it is going to offend at least some people in the congregation. sermons are supposed to do that. they are supposed to wake you up, not to put you asleep. you also don't seem to understand the lesson of Jesus. the poor black man, the poor woman, the poor black woman, the poor white man. this is the gospel of Jesus. go ask Jesus why in each parable he only referenced one person. the lesson is we are all that person in different guises, just as He is that person.  You are grasping at straws in anger and divisiveness.

cheers.

by DougWatts 2008-03-14 10:41PM | 0 recs
Re: TOO LATE

"If the pastor gives a real sermon, it is going to offend at least some people in the congregation. sermons are supposed to do that."

Uh, that's really Orwellian... Up is down, hate is love, of course it hurts but it's so good for you to have racist hate speech directed at you...

by 07rescue 2008-03-15 01:27AM | 0 recs
Which is more likely?

Consider:

Barack Obama is a very smart person. That should be hard for anyone to dispute, even the most ardent Clinton supporters. One does not get to be magna cum laude at Harvard Law, nor president of the Harvard Law Review, without being very sharp.

His political life has been completely within the era of Whitewater, Ken Starr, numerous investigations during Bush, etc.

He's a veteran of Chicago and Illinois politics, which is very rough-and-tumble; anything that can be used, will be.

Which is more likely:
1) He actually and honestly didn't know about Wright's former statements until he started his campaign in 2007. He started disassociating with Wright immediately. He believes none of the things he's denounced.

2) He's known for years but was so arrogant as to believe that in the google, internet, tabloid era that no one else would ever find out. He started disassociating himself in 2007 only because by that point Wright could draw attention. He still believes none of it. Now that he's been caught, and it's obvious that things will come out, he still arrogantly believes no one can place him at those sermons.

3) He believes it. Everything he's written and says he stands for is a sham. He arrogantly believed no one would find out, and he still thinks no one will find out.

My money's on #1. I find it virtually impossible to believe that someone with any political ambition and any brains wouldn't have disassociated himself from Pastor Wright as quickly as possible. After watching the last 10 years of politics, I don't see how he could possibly believe it wouldn't come out; therefore, I don't think he did believe that.

I think it's exactly as portrayed. Pastor Wright went off on some, for lack of a better word, wingnut tangents now and then. Not very often. At those sermons, Obama was not present. When he found out, he began to distance himself.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-03-14 10:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Which is more likely?

Are you sure (1) is the right choice? This would mean that Mr. Obama literally has the worst judgment of people - he's known this guy for 20 years. This is the person who brought him to Christianity, who married him and Michelle, who baptized his little girls! How convenient that Obama was completely in the dark for 19 years until 2007 (yeah, maybe his campaign staff informed him).  Do you think that demonstrate the best judgment?

I personally find it laughable when Wright referred to Obama as the black boy who grew up in a single family home.  Yes, it is true, but Wright conveniently left out that Obama grew up in a single family home because his black father abandoned him; and that he grew up in a white family with a white mother and white grand parents who cared and loved him dearly and provided him with the best opportunities in life possible.  

About Obama's white family. I want to say something more. This has been bothering me for a while.  I was a big fan of Obama since his speech at the 2004 DNC.  But after I read his "dreams of my father," I found myself confused and somewhat disillusioned. Obama is just as white as he is black.  His father left when he was two and he only saw his father once in his life when he was around 10 (I am not sure about the age here).  His mother was the one who cared for him and loved him.  When they were in Indonesia, his mother woke him up at 4 in the morning and taught him English lessons (including American history etc) so that he would be close to the culture of his birth.  That is great love and dedication! His grand parents took care of him so he could attend the prestigious prep school.  He owes so much that is good about him to his mother and his grand parents, and yet he rejected them. I remember one part of the book where he coldly observed that his grand father was looking at him as a black man.  Come on, that is just unfair and uncomfortable for me to read.  Every child goes through a phase where they are not happy with their family.  Again, his grand parents and mother raised him.  They loved him and were so proud of him. Yet, he made such chilling almost cruel observation.  For what?!  Only one thing, they were of a different color.  Instead, he was obsessed with the father who was never really in the picture except contributing to half of his genetic composition. I found it very troubling.

Why did I change my mind about my support of Obama?  I find his personal story does not reconcile with his rhetorics.  He was not even able to transcend the racial barrier in his own family. Also his choice of wife certainly wasn't that great. Michelle had the best opportunities - Princeton Undergraduate and Harvard Law (her brother went to Princeton too!) and yet she was never proud of her country. Still, people grow and improve.  I don't deny that Obama may have evolved past that stage of his life.  We shall see.

by observer11 2008-03-15 12:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Which is more likely?

You act as if it was his choice whether he was seen as Black or White. As if that was something he had any influence over. But that is exactly what his whole life story is about - that you cannot chose whether you are perceived as Black or White or whatever else corner people put you in solely based on the color of your skin.

People put him into the "Black" corner and once he realized that he had to come to grips with it. By the way, the adoration of his mother as expressed in "Dreams of my father" goes much further than anything he says about his father. He is actually very critical of his father.

by marcotom 2008-03-15 03:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Which is more likely?

No. I don't think he had a choice, which was why, since his early childhood, he always seemed to have carried a heavy chip on his shoulder (at least based on my reading of his books). In a way, it is a tragedy of our society that a child had to go through that kind of struggle. I have a sense that he had a pretty angry and somewhat confused youth and a long struggle to define his position in life and I respected that. It seemed that he found the purpose of his life in Chicago, co-incidental with his embracing the Christian faith in mid to late 80's. No one could deny that Wright has had a clear and very strong impact on Obama's life - he turned him into a Christian!  I was curious about the kind of messages that had such a strong impact on an individual. Now I got to watch them and I have to say that I am stunned. I don't know how to interpret them without casting serious doubts on Mr. Obama, about his message of hope and his message about transcending racial and political barriers. This is why the more I know about Obama, the more I am confused about what his messages really mean.

by observer11 2008-03-15 10:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Whatever happened to objectivity?

by nstrauss 2008-03-15 12:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

My husband and I discussed this at length. He said we would never vote for a leftist white supremist nor will we vote for a left black supremist. Obama may still be in trouble. I believe FOX News is going through all the video they find to see if Obama was sitting amongst the congregation during any of those awful sermons.

As for Hillary staying with Bill. It is none of our business. Many women of her age group and even slightly older like 70 yrs old like my mother-in-law were taught to stay married no matter what. Since we have no idea if she was taught this growing up we have no right to judge her staying with Bill. As a matter of fact, I am more proud of her for sticking by her man. Obviously it is also ancient history. Let it go you Hillary bashing fruitcakes. Thanks Jerome for posting this. By the way we share a last name in common!

by navyvet48 2008-03-15 12:47AM | 0 recs
Obama is a black supremacist?

Do you genuinely believe this?

Aside from Wright's sermons, what in his career or his writings gives you this idea?

You can't judge a man by his pastor, or by one of his associations.

by TL 2008-03-15 04:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Sorry to say this, but, I think Hillary is  Monster and her avid racist feminist supporters of the Likes  of Ferraro are working around the Clock to Win PA. Obama has the glorious chance to make the best of this Drama of his association with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, he has the chance to turn the table around on his foes and to do this he has to enable the ancient act of winning a war. One hint is to associate himself with Dr. King. Obama should seize the moment, remember  when king was misconstrued,and was plagued by associating himself with others...? these events happened just before his demised and he was guilty by Association,was even called a communist? Obama should paint himself as a Victim of the desperate presidential candidates, his foes, they can not offer any clear solution to the American people's problem, but to engage in dirty politicking especially withing the Democratic party. Character assassinate an innocent man who has been faithful to his country and his Family. Does this ring a bell? Faithful country, people and family?.

If Hillary wins the nomination,the Democrats are at risk of losing their edge and this election has brought out skeleton out of the closet that their are hidden racism withing the party. The GOP has a lot to gain from this.

by The American 2008-03-15 02:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Clintonites want to make this all about fear. Fear of the 3am call, fear that the Republicans might win if we don't nominate master-politician, time-tested Hillary.  I am thoroughly tired of Hillary and her underhanded ways and the emptiness of her message, and tired of her cynical supporters as well.

Clinton and her supporters are clinging to one argument: Hillary's supposed advantage in electability. What a load of crap from people who were predicting Clinton would have this wrapped up after Super Tuesday. Hillary is losing the nomination despite her supposed electability and alleged experience, and this due in large part to her inept staff and her lack of planning. That shows me what kind of president she'd be. I think she's only proven herself to be divisive, incompetent, and unelectable. And I for one won't vote for her in the general.

by tractor 2008-03-15 02:36AM | 0 recs
Re: this Hillary hater is why Obama will not win

This kind of lashing out at clinton when it is Obama who is at risk is exactly why Obama will never be president.  Your hatred is disgusting.

by democrat voter 2008-03-15 07:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

MArkos still a hypocrite.

thank yo jerome, the silence elswhere is deafening.

by zane 2008-03-15 03:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

This albatross Barack now will put around the neck of the Democratic Party.

by Bob H 2008-03-15 03:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

  This Wright guy just adds to the creepy feeling a lot of people already have about Obama.  He is a wolf in sheep's clothing

by atomic garden 2008-03-15 03:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Jerome, once again thanks for your post.

It's more than obvious that many of the Obama posters belong to the Obama party as opposed to the Democratic Party. Nothing he does will ever be wrong. Any report catching him out will be an evil plot driven by the racist, power-mad Hillary.

Here are some facts, folks.

Obama did not distance himself from Wright because Wright still worked on his campaign until this week. He served on his religious supporters committee. He has a twenty-year relationship with him.

Wright's remarks went beyond the proverbial pale - no, not a race remark; look it up - when he downgraded 9-11 and implied that a woman (Hillary) would not know oppression. Gyrating his hips as he talked about how Bill went "dirty" on them like he did Monica fell in the same category. Though most Americans won't get past the God damn US.

Obama and his supporters have skillfully used the race card throughout this campaign. Jesse Jackson Jr.'s lie that Hillary never cried tears over Katrina. The memo that circulated during the South Carolina campaign directing his supporters to play up Bill's remarks as racist. His latest speech in Mississippi warning voters not to get bamboozled and hoodwinked. The outrageously stupid NYT editorial that found references to Birth of a Nation in Hillary's ad. Most damning he stood silent after KO's hit piece this week.

Now they are getting burned on that third rail.

Contrary to your best efforts, this is still a campaign. You are supposed to bring up problems with your opponent. None of you opened your mouths when he and the MSM went after Hillary on the most outrageous of terms.

So reap what you have sown. Most dems will be just damn happy we found out before the GE.

by cath 2008-03-15 04:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Jerome---this is the worst kind of snarky blogging for the purposes of perpetuating garbage. I am stunned that this is your front page diary for the day. There was a time when you had something to say rather than parroting other people's talking points. What is going on with you?

by wasder 2008-03-15 04:26AM | 0 recs
Jerome, you can do better than this

This is pure emotion, not thought, and it's an encouragement to judge someone very unfairly.

What we've learned is that Obama has a minister who says some crazy things.  But we also know there is nothing in Obama's career or in his writings to suggest that he shares those views.    

Is it really that hard to believe that he disagrees with his pastor?  We had a crazy pastor (two of them actually) when I was growing up.  My parents and I essentially tuned out as soon as his sermons started.  It didn't stop us going to church, and it didn't stop my parents from volunteering at the church or being married there or having me baptized there.

I can't believe I'm the only one who's had this experience.

by TL 2008-03-15 04:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Don't be afraid.  We will never have a candidate who is immune from attack.  It is good that this is coming up now.  Once the press gets its fill of this story they won't make such a big deal about it when the general public starts paying attention to the race in September.  

Also, the R's are going to swiftboat Obama no matter what happens.  The only thing we can control is our response to such attacks.  I think Obama's letter at HuffPo is an excellent response.  

by Blue Neponset 2008-03-15 04:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?
mydd has become hijacked by republican attack dogs.
this site and its people should be ashamed of themselves.
by PrinceCA 2008-03-15 05:46AM | 0 recs
Please reaname this blog: MyRepubTalkingPoints
No kidding. The stuff on the front page here is indistinguishable from Redstate. And that is about as pathetic as you can get.
by defibialater 2008-03-15 07:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?
Well the Politico has a piece this morning about "Story of a story" where they explain that the story had been covered before and most reporters didn't think much of revisiting it.
But "a rival campaign" was pushing them to cover Pastor Wright again at every opportunity.
I don't have to think really hard to know who "suggested" Faux News do that story, do I ?
by Benjaminomeara 2008-03-15 06:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

You put "a rival campaign" in quotes and have made it seem as if the Politico has said a rival campaign was pushing them to cover the story. Could you provide the actual quote where they say that.

I searched, but couldn't even find the phrase "a rival campaign" in the article. Did the article change since you read it?

by Step Beyond 2008-03-15 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

I read the piece.

Your description of its content is entirely a distortion.

At most, the piece asserts that, for a fair amount of time, Obama's opponents (obviously the Clinton campaign) have been pressing the media to look at Jeremiah Wright.

There is nothing to suggest that this particular story had anything to do with the Clinton campaign, either in its exact content or its timing.

by frankly0 2008-03-15 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

In the land of the Obama believers he can do no wrong.  In fact, according to some of these posts, its all Hillary's fault.  They jumped all over Hillary over Ferraro's comments, which were mild by comparison, blaming Hillary for them, painting with a broad hate filled brush, but just let something come out now against the ONE where it looks as if this pastor is anti-white and anti-America and definitely full of hate filled speech against Hillary Clinton in particular, trying to say that Obama knows the plight of being a poor black man in a white controlled world, which is so untrue because Obama was not in fact raised on the streets of Chicago but in a mixed privileged home with a private school, a Harvard education and living in a mansion while his constituents lived in slums.  And yet in Obamaland its Hillary's fault.  The Hillary haters/Obama lovers are so filled with this kind of thing they don't even see what they themselves are doing.  It is wrong to blame any of this on Hillary.  The blame rests squarely on Obama's shoulders, he is the one who did not get rid of Wright last year when he should have, and the questions is why?  Not to somehow try to twist even this into someway somehow being her fault.  To even defend the things Wright has said shows the complete blindness the Obama supporters have to the reality of the American electorate.  Not everyone is so in love with Obama, in fact half of the democratic party has not so far been so enraptured with Obama.  You cannot defend the indefensible and expect to remain credible.  Blaming Clinton for this is really silly and just seems to be more of the coolaid drinking spell you Obama supporters are under.  Can you not see that those who have not yet climbed onto Obama's bandwagon can and probably will use this kind of thing to not get on board?  It is not Hillary's fault that Obama has this man as his spiritual adviser and mentor, it is Obama's.

by democrat voter 2008-03-15 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Actually, it's not clear that Obama's done any wrong, since his entire life's work would seem to repudiate the "greatest hits" of Reverend Wright that we've seen over the past day.  But keep arguing to the void if it makes you feel better.

by rfahey22 2008-03-15 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

Wright has supplied the Republican Swift Boaters with the ammunition they need to turn candidate Obama into Malcolm X by November.  Thanks to both Wright and Obama for this great gift.

by Bob H 2008-03-15 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

This whole Wright thing is a rightwing non-story, and it makes me sick when "liberals" fan the flames of this kind of crap to prop up their flawed and unloved DLC candidate, Hillary Clinton.

by Oregonian 2008-03-15 01:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Dedicated his house too?

But but but I thought Obama did not know about all of his pastor's comments until this week.

by ericrsiny 2008-03-15 04:44PM | 0 recs

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