Cuba: Differences in Approach

This week we had the unusual opportunity to see the candidates respond to two crisis situations: Kosovo's declaration of independence and Castro's resignation in Cuba.  I believe the two events provide a look at just how differently the candidates might approach foreign policy once in the White House.

Earlier this week, I wrote in detail about the striking differences between Obama's and Clinton's responses to Kosovo.  Obama stressed, first and foremost, that Kosovo should be viewed as a unique situation, not as a new precedent --- a crucial position given an impending argument with Russia about the future of the Caucasus.  

Obama also took a more even-handed approach, acknowledging the suffering of the Serbian people, blaming Milosevic and not Serbia for the loss of Kosovo, and even more importantly praising the recent, narrow re-election of pro-Western president Boris Tadic.

What I find most striking is that one candidate is using the opportunity to pander to a domestic audience, and the other is aware that he is speaking to the world community.  One is presidential and diplomatic, the other not so much.  Obama is conscious that he is already a presence on the world stage, as witnessed by his willingness to play a role in limiting the violence in Kenya.  Clinton still seems to need to learn that the world is listening when she speaks, as witnessed by her ridiculous and pointless name-calling exchange with Putin.

The Castro resignation offered us another display of more of the same.  In her rush to express her enthusiasm for Castro's resignation, the Clinton campaign clumsily overstated the number of years he had been in power.  Ready on day one?

Emblematic of Clinton's embrace of failed American policy towards Cuba is Clinton's support of continued funding for Radio Marti, a $200 million pet project that does not actually do much of anything at all.  Year after year, we broadcast the signal, and year after year Cuba blocks the signal.  Nevertheless, out of spite, Congress continues to approve the funding.

Back in August, Obama spoke out for an easing of relations with Cuba, becoming the first to raise the topic in the Democratic primary.  As Obama wrote in an Op-Ed for the Miami Herald, addressing the Cuban-American community directly:

The primary means we have of encouraging positive change in Cuba today is to help the Cuban people become less dependent on the Castro regime in fundamental ways.  Unfortunately, the Bush administration has made grand gestures to that end while strategically blundering when it comes to actually advancing the cause of freedom and democracy in Cuba.

Enough with some of the grand gestures and failed policy that have for fifty years accomplished nothing.  Enough with the DC insider consensus that hasn't brought Cuba any closer to democracy.  Obama proposed easing restrictions on family visits and remittances to Cuba, as a first step.  And he has insisted that he would be willing to reopen bilateral talks, even with Castro, as a way to break the deadlock.

A month ago, bothcandidates filled out a questionnaire from the Cuban-American group CNAF that asked the direct question: "Do you believe that the United States should negotiate with Raul Castro once it is announced that Fidel Castro has died?"

The Clinton campaign answered "No" and left no explanation.  The Obama campaign meanwhile answered "Yes" and wrote:

A crucial component of the Obama plan to promote freedom and democratic change in Cuba will be aggressive and principled bilateral diplomacy. I will send an important message: if a post-Fidel government begins opening Cuba to democratic change, the United States is prepared to take steps to normalize relations and ease the embargo that has governed relations between our countries for the last five decades. That would be the best means of promoting Cuban freedom.

Under the next question --- "Should the United States require a new Cuban government to make concessions such as freeing political prisoners or allowing a free press before the United States moves to negotiate with them?" --- the Clinton campaign answered "Yes" and Obama answered "No." In other words, Obama would not require preconditions before opening negotiations, indicating that he would be willing to leverage easing the embargo in exchange for democratic reforms.

In his statement welcoming Castro's resignation, Obama signals that he's ready to ease restrictions further in exchange for meaningful reforms:

If the Cuban leadership begins opening Cuba to meaningful democratic change, the United States must be prepared to begin taking steps to normalize relations and to ease the embargo of the last five decades.

While neither candidate's Cuba policy is particularly inspiring, we can at least see a willingness towards movement in Obama and a willingness to break with orthodoxy.

Instead of using this statements as an opportunity to look tough before the American electorate, Obama is already looking ahead, aware of the impact his statements can have abroad.  For all of Clinton's supposed experience in crafting foreign policy, we haven't seen much of it on display lately.

Tags: 2008, Barack Obama, foreign policy, Hillary Clinton, president, Primaries (all tags)

Comments

94 Comments

Courage

I'm a big obama fan, but I always cringe when he claims that he's a "straight talker" and that he has the courage to say what's right even if it' snot popular.

But this is a rare issue where I can honestly say that Obama is courageous. Florida is a swing state, and the anti-Castro crew is psychotic and irrational (on a good day). Kudos to Obama.

by mcdave 2008-02-20 04:02PM | 0 recs
Not that singular really

He showed the same sort of reasonable and sound judgement when he was tossed the attempted "gotcha" about Pakistan back in the earlier debates about if he had actionable intel to take out Usama ibn Ladin in Pakistan, and the Musharraf gov. of Pakistan refused to take action, would he still take military action to get him? To which Obama correctly answered yes.

This is something I am shocked that nobody has called McCain. Flip the question back onto McCain, who tried to make an attack against Obama over his answer in McCain's victory speech last night. Is McCain (Mr. strong defender of .merica) really suggesting that taking out Usama ibn Ladin hinges on the approval of a dictator of a muslin country who is unwilling to capture Usama ibn Ladin?

So the murderer mastermind of 9/11 skates because we don;t get permission from some muslim dictator?

It literally boggles the mind that McCain dared to make such an absurd nonsensical attack on Oabama's correct position in that hypothetical, and it hasn't immediately made McCain a non-viable as President.

Amazing.

by lestatdelc 2008-02-20 04:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Not that singular really

Good call.

by mcdave 2008-02-20 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Not that singular really

More specifically and less hypothetically I want someone to ask McCain if he's condemning this .

by illlaw1 2008-02-20 04:38PM | 0 recs
IOKIYOR of course

by lestatdelc 2008-02-20 04:41PM | 0 recs
Of course!

by illlaw1 2008-02-20 04:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

Finally, Obama got a foreign affairs tutorial!

by newhorizon 2008-02-20 04:04PM | 0 recs
What does that mean?

by turnnoblindeye 2008-02-20 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: What does that mean?

It means he actually managed not to say something stupid about a foreign affairs issue (as opposed to the Pakistan comment).

by newhorizon 2008-02-20 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: What does that mean?

The Pakistan approach that the CIA just successfully followed?

by illlaw1 2008-02-20 04:20PM | 0 recs
Are you high?

So are you suggesting that if the POTUS has actionable intel to take out Usama ibn Ladin, and the Pakistani gov. refuses to allow us to take him out and/or take action to take him out, the POTUS is suppose to just let him go?

Is that seriously what you think is the correct answer?

by lestatdelc 2008-02-20 04:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Are you high?

That would go over REAL well with the average American...

by turnnoblindeye 2008-02-20 04:26PM | 0 recs
Huh?

Name me a single American who would object to taking Usama ibn Ladin in Pakistan if we had the chance, even if it meant violating Pakistan sovereignty to get him because Pakistan refused to allow it and/or move on him themselves.

by lestatdelc 2008-02-20 04:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Huh?

I think no one will mind since the CIA did it just a bit ago.

I haven't heard any outrage from Americans.

by illlaw1 2008-02-20 04:37PM | 0 recs
Re: What does that mean?

Oh right, I forgot, he's "naive".  Just like JFK was.

Someone about never fearing to negotiate.  Silly guy.

by turnnoblindeye 2008-02-20 04:25PM | 0 recs
No

He has had a mature and sensible view for years about foreign relations.

by lestatdelc 2008-02-20 04:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

Obama doesn't to be lectured by supporters of the worst foreign policy disaster in a generation.

You walked into that one.

by mcdave 2008-02-20 04:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

You seem to be missing a word or two.  I think you were trying to say that I was attempting to lecture Obama.  Hahaha!  Hardly.  

It probably comes as a huge surprise but there are enormous diplomatic issues in this world other than the war.  So, answering any criticism of your candidate with a mindless poke at Clinton about the 2002 vote is pretty unresponsive and unpersuasive.  You walked into that one.

by newhorizon 2008-02-20 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

There are indeed enormous diplomatic (foreign policy ) issues in this world other than the war.  Cuba, however, is not one of them. normalizing relations with a tiny, isolated country 90 miles off our southern border is a no brainer.  Unless of course you agree with our present policy of talking only to those that may have the ability to harm us and ignoring those who don't have that ability.

by Its Like Herding Cats 2008-02-21 08:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

Clinton voted for saber rattling. Neither she nor Hussein thought the "stupid" would invade after he was forced to let the inspectors in. A president Gore might have wanted the same leverage over Hussein, but of course he would not have invaded once the inspectors were allowed in.

Obama is a Lieberman Democrat. He is open to school vouchers and a lot of other rightwing ideas. He will be able to get passed what Bush or McCain never could.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 04:33PM | 0 recs
No

Clinton voted for saber rattling. Neither she nor Hussein thought the "stupid" would invade after he was forced to let the inspectors in.

Unfortunately that is simply not accurate. She voted to authorize the use of military force in Iraq without any need for prior approval or determination made by Congress.

by lestatdelc 2008-02-20 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: No

It is true. It was sold as "leverage" so Sadaam could see that Bush could pull the trigger if he didn't let the inspectors in. Hillary went on the senate floor and said she was not in favor of invading unless the inspectors weren't let in.

She also said that the administration said to her that they wouldn't invade. The administration did not say she was lying.

Still, it was the wrong vote, she's human. But there never was a vote for war, it was fot the authorization to use force if "deemed necessary". Was it necessary? I don't think so because the inspectors were let in. Bush misused the authority.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 05:58PM | 0 recs
Re: No

How come the 20+ Democratic Senators were smart enough to figure out what the AUMF meant but Hill just couldn't understand what was going on, is she naive or just incompetent?

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-20 06:19PM | 0 recs
Re: No

Giving a president the leverage to go to war if NECESSARY is not the same as voting to go to war. Bush, and Bush alone started that war for no good reason. Sadaam did let the inspectors in after he was threatened. The leverage Hillary and most of congress gave to Bush worked. Bush decided to abuse his authority and invade anyway.

Congress never declared war on Iraq. That vote never took place. And be the way, Bush could have attacked Iraq without congress' approval. He did that in Afganistan. Clinton did that in Kosovo (and the muslims and the rest of the world loved America and Clinton for doing that).

by mmorang 2008-02-21 11:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

wait you honestly think Raul would be different than Fidel?

by sepulvedaj3 2008-02-20 04:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

Let's give him a chance rather than assuming the worst. What's the worst that could happen, we get the moral high ground a bit? Knee-jerk reactions don't do any one any good.

And our Cuba policy is monumentally idiotic.

by MNPundit 2008-02-20 04:20PM | 0 recs
And our polcies for the past 50 years...

...have at all moved Cuba towards liberalization?

So you think no carrots should be offered to move Cuba in the right direction, nothing but stick (ineffective stick at that)...?

by lestatdelc 2008-02-20 04:26PM | 0 recs
No, I think there were opportunities for thawing

before as well as now, but I don't have any illusions about Raul, he's been the military chief, for crying out loud.  

A transition in leadership though is a natural opportunity for talks, for opening up some fresh negotiations and seeing what happens.

by psericks 2008-02-20 04:26PM | 0 recs
Differences in Approach

Bravo Obama, for your sensible approach to nations like Cuba and Venezuela.  We don't have to be in love with their governments to have a civilized diplomatic relationship with them.

What a bunch of small-minded schmucks we must look like to the rest of the world when we can't even muster up the courage to have a conversation with a tiny island nation 90 miles away.

Oy.

by global yokel 2008-02-20 04:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

Terrific diary, thanks.  The 'Putin snub' link is broken, incidentally.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-02-20 04:22PM | 0 recs
In the coming years

no matter if it is C or O, we will see "normal" relations starting up with Cuba.

I wonder tho, if they will wait until after 2012?

by kevin22262 2008-02-20 04:23PM | 0 recs
And your evidence given Clitnon's popsiton

that we will see movement towards normalizing relations with Cuba is?

Not saying it wouldn't be the case with Clinton, but where is the evidence to support your assertion?

by lestatdelc 2008-02-20 04:27PM | 0 recs
haha

What evidence do you have for the opposite?

It is my gut feeling because we would have a Democratic house and senate. Also with the "big evil monster" Fidel out of the way, it helps to defuse some of the hysteria.

by kevin22262 2008-02-20 04:36PM | 0 recs
That doesn't address the issue

Since the executive branch sets foreign policy, not Congress.

by lestatdelc 2008-02-20 04:40PM | 0 recs
Uh...

yes it does.

There will be MUCH less resistance to normalizing relations.

Plus, since both O and C are more corporate friendly then I like, their corporate friends will welcome and want this. That way they can outsource our jobs to Cuba instead of all the way over in China.

by kevin22262 2008-02-20 04:45PM | 0 recs
Re: haha

the fact that Clinton consisitently refuses to take any stance that would be in the least politically corageous (the one noble exception being Health Care).

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-20 06:21PM | 0 recs
I disagee

but just to stick with health care.

Someone PLEASE tell me why all of a sudden it is cool for so called Democrats and Progressives (some of the Obama supporters) to not support and to tear apart Universal Health Care?

If this continues, say Goodbye to true UHC in our lifetime!

by kevin22262 2008-02-20 06:33PM | 0 recs
Clinton's plan is not

universal health care.  It's mandated health insurance.

Obama's plan is also not universal health care.  It's a mandate on insurance companies to include everyone and reduce the premiums.

Clinton's plan 'covers' everyone because everyone will be forced to buy in.

Obama's plan covers only the willing.

Do you personally need to be forced to buy it?  For me, the answer is no.  Just make it available and affordable.

by GFORD 2008-02-20 08:35PM | 0 recs
Clinton shined in Kosovo without one U.S. Casualty

We did a hell of a good job in Kosovo during the Clinton's time in office. The world loved and respected us then.

Obama will send troops to Africa, which I support except for the fact that we're already in two wars.
Obama can't win Florida and can't even force McCain to spend a dime or minute there, so he was hardly being brave. He also can't win one southern state.

Like many of his primary wins, he can't win them in the general election or even force McCain to defend them. Hillary would win at least one southern state (Arkansas) which is all she needs.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton shined in Kosovo without one U.S. Casu

He puts many states in play. IA, MO, CO for example. Perhaps even VA.

by illlaw1 2008-02-20 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton shined in Kosovo without one U.S. Casu

Just because Obama won a dem primary doesn't mean he has a chance in hell to win the state in the general, that is a pipe dream, it will not happen. He will not win or even come close in one southern state. He will not have a snowball's chance in hell to win IA, MO, CO or VA.

He's polling even with McCain in MO and he hasn't been touched yet by the rightwing. He will lose in a landslide.

He would have been in the whitehouse for 16 years. Now he gets zero or 4 years of headaches and then defeat. Someone will inherit a nightmare, I hope its not him, because it would be a waist of a good talent.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 05:04PM | 0 recs
Ever looked at a poll before?

It wouldn't hurt you.  Really it wouldn't.  It makes more sense than making things up.

Try, say, all of these.

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:13PM | 0 recs
That would be the other Clinton.

And actually, Obama has been pretty clear that the United States doesn't have troops to spare in Sudan, for example.  He's supporting an international peacekeeping force there.

Obama will have a great shot at Virginia, and he might have a good shot at Missouri too.  He's lock up the Midwest: Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin --- that have been shaky in recent years.  And he's way ahead in current general election polls in Nevada and Colorado.

If the general election were held today, he would win quite handily.

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:00PM | 0 recs
Actually I'm not sure the world

"loved and respected us then" either.  China and Russia were most certainly not happy --- hence we didn't have a UN mandate for the bombing.  And the Kosovo bombing was anything but uncontroversial in Europe.

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:02PM | 0 recs
Thank God for Arkansas...

So AR alone will make up for MN, IA, PA, CO, VA, WI, and OR, all of which she is losing and Obama is winning?

by NJIndependent 2008-02-20 05:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton shined in Kosovo without one U.S. Casu

Obama is in a much better position to force McCain to expend resources in Red states than Clinton is.

And McCain wins Florida. No poll of a general election match up has put Clinton or Obama above McCain. Clinton comes closer, but doesn't overtake him. (A Rasmussen poll from 2/18 has her down 6)

I'm from Florida, and I hope to get it back in the blue column soon. But right now, I don't think the Dems can rely on a state with Florida's demographics in the general.

by LiberalFL 2008-02-20 06:19PM | 0 recs
Hill and Bill are not one person

Clinton, Bill not Clinton, Hill as much as you want to blur the distinction they are different people (unless you're willing to agree that she gets the blame for the bad stuff as well as credit for the good).

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-20 06:23PM | 0 recs
Clinton shined in Kosovo without one U.S. Casualty

Bill Clinton is not running.

by GFORD 2008-02-20 08:36PM | 0 recs
Being dissed by Putin is about the biggest

compliment Hillary could receive. He is a dictator and as Hillary pointed out, by definition he doesn't have a soul because he is a KGB agent.

Both Obama's are very smart people, but here is the problem with betting on someone who is not experienced with the national media: Michele Obama said that for the first time (after her husband wins two primaries) she is proud to be an American. It seems similar to me to her refusal to say that she would support Hillary if she won the nomination. I'm sure she'll want Hillary to support her husband if he's the nominee. I'm not sure I will.

If we jump on her bandwagon everything is ok, if not then its another story.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 04:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Being dissed by Putin is about the biggest

Booooo. That's all I can say to that blabbering.

by illlaw1 2008-02-20 04:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Being dissed by Putin is about the biggest

Booooo. That's all I can say to that blabbering.

Oh, I should let you know you're advancing. That is the smartest comment I've seen you make. Pretty soon you'll be making statements that make sense.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 05:17PM | 0 recs
Petty name-calling -- That's experienced diplomacy

I'm glad Clinton will really raise the bar for American diplomacy after eight years of cowboy spitting contests.  I didn't realize that KGB agents didn't actually have souls.

You didn't read Michelle Obama's quote, therefore you have no idea what you're talking about.  She was referring to the grassroots energy she thought was sweeping America and she said most specifically that it wasn't her husband's wins.  Have you seen Democratic primary turnout figures lately?

She also didn't refuse to say whether she would support Clinton.  She declined to say whether she would work to elect Clinton.  Look it up.

That's your sloppiness, not Michelle's.

Clinton, on the other hand, never has any media-driven gaffes.  Like claiming Castro was president of Cuba for 58 years, or referring to Putin as not having a soul, etc.

The biggest lie of this election cycle is that the Clintons are somehow "vetted" --- when she refuses to release her tax returns, they refuse to release the donor list for the presidential library, and we see the occasional scandal arise from Bill Clinton's cozy relationship with donors to the foundation.

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:10PM | 0 recs
Right on...

Thanks, once again, for injecting some reality-based commentary into the blogosphere...

by Vermonter 2008-02-20 05:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Petty name-calling

I saw the interview and she was asked if she would "support" Hillary and she wouldn't just say yes. She hemmed and Hawed.

She clearly said that it was the first time she was proud to be an American.

As for Putin, he has had hundreds of reporters killed. Russia has been lost and Bush lost them. Physical, racists attacks are plentiful in Russia. It is sad but true.

Everything that Michele Obama says will be analysed, twisted, etc. I have no dought she's a great person with a great heart, but she is new on the national stage and the Republicans will take advantage of it. That is the downside of having less experienced candidates run. There is upside as well.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 05:26PM | 0 recs
The word was "work"

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:36PM | 0 recs
Putin has not had hundreds of reporters killed.

That's just dumb.

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:42PM | 0 recs
Putin has not had hundreds of reporters killed

This is pretty common knowledge. Someone has had hundreds of journalists killed, most assume it is Putin as he is in charge. It is documented. What are you smokin'?

The government has taken over control of TV. You cannnot criticize Putin. A famous female journalist did criticize him and was killed on his birthday.

CNN just showed a documentary. Russia sees us as an enemy now. That is a fact.

Even Obama has talked about the Russia problem. Pay attention and read if you don't know what you're talking about.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 06:04PM | 0 recs
You mention a single instance of the murder

of a journalist.  That is not "hundreds."  Russia's problems are bad enough that you don't need to invent any.

I never argued that Russia doesn't have authoritarian tendencies, but we can't afford them as an enemy, anymore than we can afford China as an "enemy" --- which actually is a full-fledged dictatorship and is totally without freedom of the press.

It's worth arguing with Russia over valid things --- transparent democratic principles, freedom of the press, etc. --- but antagonizing Putin as Bush has with his missile defense shield proposal for eastern Europe or pissing off Putin by joking at his expense to the tune of 'you have no soul'....  I'm gonna guess that's not so constructive.

by psericks 2008-02-20 06:31PM | 0 recs
Re: You mention a single instance of the murder

You are arguing over something that is well known and reported and you're saying it didn't happen. Do you also not believe that we landed on the moon back in the late 1960's?

Hundreds of journalists in Russia have been murdered. The state now controls the media. That is a fact, not opinion. Russia is now a police state, also a fact.

The new president, hand picked by Putin is not even campaigning because the fix is in. Putin will remain in power probably taking the title of Prime Minister.

They just killed a billionaire over there who opposed Putin. I suppose you never heard of that either.

So, you think Russia is a democracy? You think Putin is a good guy? You think they have a free press in Russia? Gary Kasparov, the Russian Chess champion for two decades tried to run for office and was beaten and jailed. He says Russia is a police state.

Please pull your head out of your back pocket and do a little reading.

by mmorang 2008-02-21 11:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Petty name-calling

Putin has said he will not step down. He is clearly bring fasism to Russia and had many political opponents killed or imprisoned. So, the no soul comment is apt.

What about Obama and his indicted friend. I believe the trial is coming up soon, so maybe we can find out a little more about their relationship.

Like it or not, Hillary is liked and more importantly respected by U.S. Generals because of her mastery of foreign policy and military issues. Few others have such respect. Like her or not she is no lightweight. She knows the issues. But I guess that's not as important as personality.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 05:34PM | 0 recs
Putin is stepping down.

It's not clear what his future intentions are, but he still is leaving his current position.

Your comment about being respected by generals is kind of silly.  Obama has the support of several.  Believe it or not, gasp, many are support McCain.  I've ever heard that some of them have political opinions and that they don't monolithically stand behind one candidate.

Interestingly, Obama leads among donations from military service members.

I never claimed Clinton was a lightweight.  My diary is evidence that Obama isn't a lightweight either.

Lastly, the Clintons have many, many indicted friends.  Let's not get started.

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Putin is stepping down.

psericks, be fair most of Clinton's frineds aren't indicted they're convicted.

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-20 06:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Putin is stepping down.

Unlike the recent Republicans, not one official in Clinton's cabenet was ever indicted let alone served time in jail. Again, that is a fact.

by mmorang 2008-02-21 11:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Putin is stepping down.

I don't have a clue why you are defending Putin. He is taking a new title (prime minister) but he is not giving up power.

by mmorang 2008-02-21 11:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Being dissed by Putin is about the biggest

Perhaps, Putin's not a big Bush fan either.  

We need a leader who can converse with other world leaders and not resort to name calling...we've had enough of that kind of behavior from the WH.

by GFORD 2008-02-20 08:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

Saying "this is the FIRST time that she is proud of America" is a profoundly stupid thing to say. Period. End of story.

I'm a die-hard Democrat and will probably hold my nose and vote for Obama but I believe he will lose an election that no Dem should lose. Its not his fault he is young and relatively inexperienced and in over his head.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 05:14PM | 0 recs
The quote

If you're going to use quotation marks, you might as well get it right.  Especially since the hubbub actually stems from a sloppy transcription of her words.

"For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country. Not just because Barack is doing well, but I think people are hungry for change."

And she's happily clarified what she meant.  You won't find a tougher, more eloquent advocate for Obama than Michelle.

"What I was clearly talking about was that I'm proud in how Americans are engaging in the political process," she said.

"For the first time in my lifetime, I'm seeing people rolling up their sleeves in a way that I haven't seen and really trying to figure this out -- and that's the source of pride that I was talking about," she added.

When asked if she had always been proud of her country, she replied "absolutely" and said she and her husband would not be where they are now if not for the opportunities of America.

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:34PM | 0 recs
Re: The quote

"For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country. Not just because Barack is doing well, but I think people are hungry for change."

The above comment is stupid politically speaking. She might honestly feel that way and I wouldn't blame her a bit if she did. But it was, politically, a dumb thing to say. Not that its that important, but she made two statements, the above comment and the same comment without the word "really" in it.

So, the Republicans will say, "this is the FIRST time you felt proud of your country?"

Everyone say's some dumb things and this was her turn. Hopefully she keeps it to a minimum.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 05:40PM | 0 recs
The quote without the word "really"

was a transcription error.  It wasn't a separate occurrence.

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:43PM | 0 recs
The quote without the word "really"

Actually, she made two speeches that day and made the same comment in each, one with the word and one without.

I happen to believe that what she said was accurate in how she truely felt and 100% understandible. It just isn't smart politics.

I'm not proud of the country for not insuring everyone with healthcare..and I could go on and on. She probably feels the same way as she's a decent person. But if you have to clarify a comment or change it then you probably shouldn't say it in the first place.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 06:10PM | 0 recs
Excellent diary
It is refreshing isn't it to hear foreign policy statements and ideas that actually seem to have something to do with real people, real history and real culture in other countries rather than just pablum set up for the domestic political show.
by Satya 2008-02-20 05:17PM | 0 recs
DUH! Hillary's Putin comment was a joke

and was in direct reference to Bush's famously stupid comment that he had looked into Putin's sould and found it 'nice' or whatever. But the MSM (as they did with Gore) takes all comments by Hillary very VERY seriously despite the direct evidence that they are jokes . The MSM then uses the comments against her to call her crass or insensitive or whatever.

"This is the president that looked in the soul of Putin, and I could have told him, he was a KGB agent," Clinton said. "By definition he doesn't have a soul. I mean, this is a waste of time, right? This is nonsense, but this is the world we're living in right now."

Clinton's comments, which drew laughs from the crowd, referred to a well-known remark Bush made upon first meeting Putin in 2001 when the U.S. president said, "I was able to get a sense of his soul."

by fairleft 2008-02-20 05:22PM | 0 recs
by fairleft 2008-02-20 05:23PM | 0 recs
Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran

Jokes don't hurt, right?

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran

You need to notice that some are exceptionally minor whereas others threaten massive death from the skies, oh so all of a sudden very serious one.

Did you notice the diarist did not mention that Clinton was making a little joke at President Bush's expense? Interesting how easy it is to get precisely in line with Republican Hillary-hate spin.

by fairleft 2008-02-20 05:51PM | 0 recs
I am the diarist, so yes, I noticed.

I understand how easy it is to get caught in the Hillary love spin, where all the jokes your candidate makes about other nuclear powers are "exceptionally minor" while your opponent's jokes are a matter of massive death.

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:57PM | 0 recs
McCain said 'bomb bomb bomb Iran'

not Obama.

by fairleft 2008-02-21 07:55AM | 0 recs
Re: DUH! Hillary's Putin comment was a joke

It was a joke but not out of line given the reality of current day Russia. Sadly, the west has lost Russia. They now have a defacto Dictatorship and Putin is their dictator.

He has had hundreds of journalists killed. The state completely controlls the TV stations and newspapers. Many political opponents have been killed or imprisoned. Russia is no longer on the road to democracy.

Bush has no moral authority or leverage to do a thing. He is viewed around the world in a much worse light than Putin. Bush has been a profound failure for a big list of things that most Americans aren't even aware of yet. They will be.

Hillary, Obama or McCain will inherit a nightmare. McCain is too much a hawk, Obama just learned to tie his shoes but has a great personality, and Hillary is up to the task but voted the wrong way on the Iraq resolution. We are in deep shit.

by mmorang 2008-02-20 05:49PM | 0 recs
Re: DUH! Hillary's Putin comment was a joke

And Putin one-upped her when he said to be a head of state first you have to have a head.

by GFORD 2008-02-20 08:41PM | 0 recs
Re: DUH! Hillary's Putin comment was a joke

Great, so now everyone is telling fine jokes and we can all relax about this fleeting silly bullshit. But note before we do that Hill's joke is one of the three major underpinnings of this article's 'Hillary Bad on foreign policy'.

by fairleft 2008-02-21 07:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

I was all for Obama , I thought his inspiring rhetoric would change the world until the reality ok Kenya hit me where he couldnt even get his calls taken or returned. It took hard slog by Kofi Annan, an experienced diplomat to get any thing done. Makes me wonder what all the lofty rhetoric is going to achieve in Washington.

by rocky 2008-02-20 05:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

He will get plenty of things done if the Republicans are for it, like school vouchers. Republican ideas that Bush or McCain could never get passed in a Democratic dominated congress, Obama could get done.

He just said that he is open to school vouchers. What else is he open to that the Republicans like?

by mmorang 2008-02-20 05:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

Welfare reform and banning gay marriage... No, wait I'm sorry that was Bill Clinton.

by Socraticsilence 2008-02-20 06:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

Bill Clinton moved the ball forward on gay rights in general. The "Don't as Don't tell" policy was a step forward. Now they are talking about moving the ball forward from there. That took political guts to do even that back in the early 1990's.

Welfare reform is something Dem's and Repub's are for and it was needed.

by mmorang 2008-02-21 11:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

I'm not a fan of school vouchers but it's not just republicans who like them.  It's a boon to those who home-school which some progressives do as well.

by GFORD 2008-02-20 08:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

I don't care who likes them. I do not want to pay for someone elses religious indoctrination.

by mmorang 2008-02-21 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

please read reality ok of Kenya as reality of Kenya

by rocky 2008-02-20 05:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

please read reality ok of Kenya as reality of Kenya

by rocky 2008-02-20 05:27PM | 0 recs
On Cuba Obama/Clinton's differences mild/minimal

In their reaction to Fidel's resignation, both state the U.S. will respond favorably to substantive democratization moves in Cuba. Obama mentions "easing" the embargo, Clinton doesn't mention the embargo.

Calling the resignation an "essential first step" though "sadly insufficient", Obama added in his statement: "If the Cuban leadership begins opening Cuba to meaningful democratic change, the United States must be prepared to begin taking steps to normalize relations and to ease the embargo of the last five decades."

The Illinois senator spoke out last year against the Bush administration's recent decision to cap the amount of money that Cuban-American expatriates can send home and limit their ability to travel to Cuba.

While Clinton has supported easing the travel limits, she did not mention the future of the US embargo in her response to Castro's resignation.

"The new leadership in Cuba will face a stark choice -- continue with the failed policies of the past that have stifled democratic freedoms and stunted economic growth -- or take a historic step to bring Cuba into the community of democratic nations," Clinton said in her statement.

Addressing Castro's successor, she added, "[T]he people of the United States are ready to meet you if you move forward towards the path of democracy, with real, substantial reforms."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb /19/uselections2008.usa1

This diary is mountains from molehills, entirely.

by fairleft 2008-02-20 05:38PM | 0 recs
Clinton sure thought there was a difference

when she slammed him back in August as naive for proposing lifting the restrictions on remittances and family visits:

Until it is clear what type of policies might come with a new government, we cannot talk about changes in the U.S. policies toward Cuba.

In other words, the crucial difference is that Clinton refuses to open bilateral talks, as she indicated in the questionnaire above, without preconditions --- i.e., substantial democratic reforms.  Obama is willing to hold the talks.

What's the difference?  Clinton's plan of maintaining current US policy and waiting for Cuba to change its government has no prospects for success, and Obama's plan of opening talks might just generate some results.  That's a pretty big difference.

And Obama has made clear that at the negotiating table, everything would be on the table, including the embargo.

by psericks 2008-02-20 05:54PM | 0 recs
Obama's position _now_ is

Cuba goes first, as in: "If the Cuban leadership begins opening Cuba to meaningful democratic change, the United States must be prepared to begin taking steps . . ."

by fairleft 2008-02-20 06:00PM | 0 recs
That sentence doesn't contradict his argument

for direct talks.  On the contrary, that sentence implies an exchange.

by psericks 2008-02-20 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: That sentence doesn't contradict his argument

It implies a "then" the U.S. does something in reaction to "if" Cuba does something. And Hillary's statement implies exactly the same.

by fairleft 2008-02-21 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Cuba: Differences in Approach

The diarist thinks that Russia is a democracy and not a police state and that all the hundreds of journalists that have been recently killed have not been killed. The diarist is also unaware that the state controlls the media over there.

Puting is the one who has moved Russia back to its authritarian ways but the diarist is completely unaware of what is now common knowledge among Democrats and Republicans. Sad. Unless the diarist is 5 years old it is very sad indeed.

by mmorang 2008-02-21 12:03PM | 0 recs

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