Poll Day

Rasmussen has released polls in Wisconsin (covered here), Texas, and Ohio yesterday and today.

Wisconsin: Obama 47, Clinton 43  
Texas: Clinton 54, Obama 38
Ohio: Clinton 51, Obama 37

Rasmussen has also continued their daily tracking poll, and that currently shows Obama 48, Clinton 40.  Gallup hasn't released national tracking numbers today yet, yesterday they showed Obama 46, Clinton 45.

WI is 4 days away, and we are still 18 days away from TX/OH voting. WI is close, and Clinton has leads in TX & OH that right now point toward her winning those two states.

WI is a fascinating primary, with a rich history. Among other factors, it should be a very high turnout in the state, which has benefited Clinton, but the makeup of the state has benefited Obama, in previous contests.

Here's a read on the '52 vote, a run-down of the past results and make-up of the voters, and some good reads on the state of this years WI race, a Republican here, some expectation theories here, and the strengths of each candidate here.

Update [2008-2-15 11:57:3 by Jonathan Singer]: The Texas Credit Union League has released a poll, which NBC News calls a "good" one, showing Clinton leading Obama in the state 49 percent to 41 percent. Asks NBC News, "More evidence that Texas is the better opportunity for Obama [than Ohio]?"

Tags: 2008 election (all tags)

Comments

85 Comments

Re: Poll Day

Since when do high turnout favor Clinton ? LOL

by Benjaminomeara 2008-02-15 06:48AM | 0 recs
laughing instead of reading

fyi chuckling:

By those standards, Clinton should love Wisconsin, which boasted the highest primary turnout in the country in 1988 (39 percent of the voting-age population) and the third-highest in 2004. The projection for this year is about 35 percent. That would put it behind only New Hampshire and Massachusetts of all of the states to vote this year. (Clinton won both of those big-turnout primaries.)

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-02-15 07:01AM | 0 recs
Re: laughing instead of reading

I wonder whether there is anything to this statistic. Correlation? Is there any explanatory power in these two data points?

What about the third and fourth highest turnout states?

Controlled for other variables? Etc.

Traditionally, low turnout favors the insurgent because their highly energized activist supporters have a disproportionate effect. But Donna Edwards is a good counter-example.

In some sense the stats are distorted by primaries vs. caucuses. Part of the argument in the article seemed to be referring to that. But Obama has done well in caucuses not just because of turnout, but also because he was organized and campaigned in those states. I guess he has a bit of an edge in that category in WI>

In another sense, ALL of the primaries this year have been high turnout primaries on the Democratic side.

Bottom line is it is likely to be closer than the 6.5:1 odds at Intrade suggest.

by demondeac 2008-02-15 08:27AM | 0 recs
Re: laughing instead of reading

Sorry I'm not buying your correlation. Is there more to support this?

by desertjedi 2008-02-15 08:31AM | 0 recs
Wow -- that's shallow

reasoning.  Were Mass and NH significantly dffernt than other years.  You don't think that MASS and NH were Clinton-leaning states independent of turnout?  If Georgia had managed the highest turnout this year, Obama still would have won or South Carolina, or, heck, VA or MD.

I'm not saying that there aren't independent arguments to be made here, but that one is one of the weakest I could imagine.

Are you even trying to think?

by responsible 2008-02-15 11:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Don't you know that if a Clinton supporter says something its true?

Get with the program!

by gil 2008-02-15 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Don't you know when an Obama supporter says something, it's the word of God.

Get with the program!

by RJEvans 2008-02-15 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Why do high turnout numbers favor clinton? That makes no sense. They seem to have always favored OBama.

by mecarr 2008-02-15 06:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

No, that's another of the Obama myths that's floating around, reinforced by our wonderful, fact-based political media. Obama is strongly favored when there's high turnout AT A CAUCUS, but that's by definition way lower than any primary. As Jerome points out above, the two highest turnout contests of any sort both went to Clinton, and in fact since primaries are much higher participation and Clinton does better in them, the truth is actually the reverse of your proposition. Obama's core base is mostly high propensity voters from traditional progressive centers like big cities and college towns. Clinton's base is lower-propensity, swing voters in blue collar and, to a lesser extent, rural areas. The greater the turnout, therefore, the better Clinton does. But if it's a caucus, which has major perceived barriers to participation, Obama's incredibly deep support in his base areas carries the day with ease, with the margin growing with turnout.

Another myth, by the way, is that Obama always carries the youth vote. Not true. In states Clinton has done well in (admittedly, none recently) she has matched him, and even won in a few states.

by ColoradoGuy 2008-02-15 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

This is meaningless.  Massachusetts and New Hampshire had highest turnout and Clinton won.  Okay.  That tells us very little about overall trends.  Turnout was, I would imagine, quite low in Tennessee, where tornadoes made voting in Memphis impossible.  That certainly didn't hurt Clinton.

by jlk7e 2008-02-15 08:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Same day registration and cross over voting will hurt Hillary. Lots of Independents and Republicans will cross over to vote for Obama. It happened in Virginia too.  Also, Obama's had time to tour the "real Wisconsin" (Green Bay, Wausau, Stevens Point, Sheboygan, Racine, etc.) and not just Madison and Milwaukee. I predict Obama wins by 8.  Hillary spins it as a win because she didn't lose by 20 again. Reality is: she should have gone there after Virginia and not Texas. Instead of three days campaigning over the weekend she could have had 7.

Re: Texas, IVR has a poll out with Hillary up 8. Useless ARG has Obama up 6 in Texas, which is probably true in the inverse: Hillary up 6-10. Problem for Hillary is her margin isn't strong enough in the Valley to turn 4 delegate districts over to her.

See this analysis on delegates in Texas. Note that this is just the primary phase of the vote. Caucus votes will add to the delegate margin for Obama.

by elrod 2008-02-15 06:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

What you're saying re: Wisconsin was supposed to happen in NH, but didn't....

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-02-15 06:57AM | 0 recs
NH vs Wisconsin

The difference is that independents in NH thought Obama was far ahead and McCain was not -- and so they split for McCain.

Now McCain is the presumptive nominee and Obama is in a competitive race with Clinton.

by mainelib 2008-02-15 06:59AM | 0 recs
Re: NH vs Wisconsin

And you activated your mind-reading device at what point?

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-02-15 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: NH vs Wisconsin

I don't rely on such a device.  My conclusion is based on interviews with independent NH voters who explained their decision.  Also, the WI dynamic I'm describing contributed to Obama's VA win.

by mainelib 2008-02-15 07:09AM | 0 recs
Re: NH vs Wisconsin

And these "interviews" were conducted with all NH voters?

Virginia is inconclusive because it's not a blue state!

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-02-15 07:13AM | 0 recs
Re: NH vs Wisconsin

I hate to tell you, but WI is also purple.  Sure, it broke for Gore (by like 2,000 votes) and Kerry (by closer to 10,000), but it's quite close.

by rfahey22 2008-02-15 07:30AM | 0 recs
Re: NH vs Wisconsin

Neither is TX and OH

by gil 2008-02-15 07:31AM | 0 recs
This will also be a good test for Obama...

...to show that, even with McCain having it in the bag nationally, whether independents will go to Obama or stay at home.

by palamedes 2008-02-15 07:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

No Michael Whouley in Wisconsin. NH is not WI.

by elrod 2008-02-15 02:07PM | 0 recs
Clintons not in Wisconsin today

It's Friday and neither of the Clintons are in Wisconsin.  Bill is in Texas and Hillary is in Ohio.

Sounds to me like they've written off Wisconsin.

by mainelib 2008-02-15 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Hillary has been winning late deciders and has been the beneficiary of large turnout.

The GOP race is a competitive race and is a compelling ideological divide within the Republican party.  I think many Republicans will vote in that primary as there are thousands of social conservative voters in Wisconsin and McCain can't afford to lose there.

The WI polls suggest that Obama needs a high turnout of independents to the extent that independents represent a larger proportion of the overall electorate than expected.  I don't think that is an effective strategy in a high turnout state, as party voters will turn out in equally high numbers, and Hillary has the edge there.  

That's why Obama lost in NH.  The pollsters all assumed that indies and new voters would have the same impact as they had in Iowa, but turnout in NH was at least 10% higher than Iowa and that benefited Clinton.

by khyber900 2008-02-15 07:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

She has been winning people who decide on election day.  Obama wins handily with people who decide in the last week.

by jlk7e 2008-02-15 08:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

She's only been winning 'decided that day'; only by a small margin; and that group makes up only a few percentage points of the votes.

by Cycloptichorn 2008-02-15 08:56AM | 0 recs
Hmm....
Looks like Wisconsin has voted for the eventual Democratic nominee every time since 1988.
by vj 2008-02-15 06:52AM | 0 recs
Re: Hmm....

That's because WI's primary, until this year, never counted.  It was one of those coronation primaries after Super Tuesday.

by rfahey22 2008-02-15 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Hmm....

It was apparently important in 1988.  It's historically been pretty important - Carter won surprisingly in 1976, McGovern won surprisingly in 1972, Johnson dropped out when on the verge of losing it in 1968, Kennedy beat Humphrey there in 1960, Kefauver beat Stevenson in 1956.

Historically, it was probably the most important primary other than New Hampshire.

by jlk7e 2008-02-15 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Hmm....

Fair enough, but that was before the current primary schedule, and in any event I don't think any historical trends from the primaries you've cited would really speak to this situation.

by rfahey22 2008-02-15 02:39PM | 0 recs
Any Pledged Delegate Lead

Within 100 or so is a tie. As long as Hillary keeps it close, and granting she wins Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania, the nomination is hers.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-02-15 06:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Any Pledged Delegate Lead

So Clinton can be behind by 100 pledged delegates and you think she will be the nominee?

Given what's going on with superdelegates breaking to Obama, that sounds quite unlikely.

by mainelib 2008-02-15 06:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Any Pledged Delegate Lead

One superdelegate in Ohio switches, one in Georgia equivocates, and two in New Jersey become uncommitted again, and suddenly the establishment is backing Obama.

Sounds like a freight train of Obamamentum.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-02-15 06:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Any Pledged Delegate Lead

There's more than that, actually.  Obama has gained 15, I believe, superdelegates over Clinton since Super Tuesday.

by mainelib 2008-02-15 07:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Any Pledged Delegate Lead

Actually, from DemConwatch:

Clinton's percentage of the super-delegates who have declared:

1/10 73%
1/13 71%
1/20 69%
1/27 68%
2/3  65%
2/10 64%
2/13 61%

And this doesn't count any which may have switched or become uncommitted since Wed. the 13th.

There's a clear trend that Obama is catching up in SD's.  If he can achieve parity with Clinton, it's hard to see her winning the election.

   

by Cycloptichorn 2008-02-15 07:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Any Pledged Delegate Lead

Right, so your data doesn't actually show if Clinton has lost some superdelegate support but instead shows that some other superdelegates (still less than Clinton's total) have come out in support of Obama, which was bound to happen during the primary process.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-02-15 07:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Any Pledged Delegate Lead

Fine with me either way, as long as the percentages keep going in the same direction!

We know for a fact that she's lost support from a couple of them; it won't take many of them to switch over in order to put Obama in parity.

by Cycloptichorn 2008-02-15 07:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Any Pledged Delegate Lead

Bound to happen?

It only happened because he is running a better campaign.

If Feb. 5th had gone like they wanted, a flood of supers would have gone to her column.

by swarty 2008-02-15 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Any Pledged Delegate Lead

Losing 4 superdelegates is nothing to sneeze at given that Obama's deficit among supers is around 80.  Thats 5% of her lead gone in just a few days.

by MNDem 2008-02-15 08:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Any Pledged Delegate Lead

Actually, it's arguably more - a superdelegate switching from clinton to obama cuts her superdelegate lead by 2.

by snaktime 2008-02-15 09:12AM | 0 recs
You love democracy, don't you?

by drjk 2008-02-15 07:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Any Pledged Delegate Lead

Nonsense.  I would simply note that she can win all three, and still be down by 140 pledged delegates (see the Obama campaign's spreadsheet, which shows exactly that).

by jlk7e 2008-02-15 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Any Pledged Delegate Lead

Within 100 is a tie?

If that is how Hillary is going to win the nomination, then it is already over.

by swarty 2008-02-15 08:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

http://americanresearchgroup.com/

ARG in TX:

Obama +6 (48-42)

I don't really know what to make of this.  On one hand, it IS ARG.  On the other hand, I don't remember them ever being an outlier for [i]Obama[/i].

by NJIndependent 2008-02-15 06:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Well, I don't know when the last time I blogged an ARG poll, but it was quite a long while ago, let them show some semblance of being right.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-02-15 07:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

I agree.  I believe there is very little chance that Obama is actually ahead in TX right now.

by NJIndependent 2008-02-15 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Unbelievable. ARG has Hillary and Obama practically tied with Hispanics. There's their outlier.

by meliou2 2008-02-15 07:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

some past ARG polls:
Jan 30-31 48%C, 35%O in CT, Obama won by 4% (17% swing)
Jan 31-Feb 1 44%C, 42%O in DE, Obama won by 10% (12% swing)
Jan 30-31 40%C, 51%O in IL, Obama won by 32% (21% swing)
Dec 31- Jan 2 34%C, 25%O in IA, Obama won by 9% (18% swing)
Jan 24-25 36%C, 39%O in SC, Obama won by 28% (25% swing)

my point is ARG definitely does not favor Obama. it also shows they may not be the most reliable pollster either.

by supsupsup 2008-02-15 07:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

They had Obama within 2 points of Clinton in Texas back in May 2007

by IVR Polls 2008-02-15 07:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Didn't they show a big Obama lead in New Hampshire?

by jlk7e 2008-02-15 08:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Everybody had Obama with a significant lead in NH.  The final ARG poll was Obama +9 (in line with the RCP average of Obama +8.3).  NH is unique because I believe that, rather than ALL the polls being wrong, Clinton actually DID make up 10-12 points in the final 24 hours, which is simply an amazing job of campaigning for a day.  

by NJIndependent 2008-02-15 09:15AM | 0 recs
ARG = S H I T

why does anyone even mention that outfit anymore?

by highgrade 2008-02-15 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Texas Credit Union League has Hillary up 49-41 over http://burntorangereport.com/showDiary.d o?diaryId=4972

not that I have any clue whether to trust the texas credit union, but burnt orange does have an interesting take on why it will be hard for hillary to net delegates from texas even with a lead.

by cgvcu 2008-02-15 06:59AM | 0 recs
Thanks for posting the IVR poll

It's much more accurate. And it's worse news for Hillary than it looks thanks to delegate apportionment.

by elrod 2008-02-15 06:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Thanks for posting the IVR poll

And, of course, if Obama wins TX but not Ohio, we'll learn that Texas doesn't count.

by mainelib 2008-02-15 07:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Thanks for posting the IVR poll
No - that'll mean Ohio doesn't count.
by vj 2008-02-15 07:10AM | 0 recs
No...

....that'll mean Ohio should not be taken for granted, regardless of who wins.

by palamedes 2008-02-15 07:36AM | 0 recs
Or Texas for this matter....

by palamedes 2008-02-15 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Thanks for posting the IVR poll

TX is red so it doesn't count!

by gil 2008-02-15 07:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Wisconsin is going to be a blowout.

58 Obama
42 Clinton

by Djneedle83 2008-02-15 07:01AM | 0 recs
Until you come to terms...

...With posting that trash in your own diary, you need to back away from your computer and refrain from commenting on this site.

by Andre Walker 2008-02-15 07:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Never Happen in two words Packers-Bears. Thats how much the people of WI dislike the state of IL

by Safe at Home 2008-02-15 08:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

I actually think the Vikings have a better rivalry with us right now.  Anyway, that doesn't mean that I dislike Chicago or Illinois.

by rfahey22 2008-02-15 08:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Ever heard the word "Flatlanders" when people in WI speak of IL residents and not in a flatering way

by Safe at Home 2008-02-15 08:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

I'm sure the voters of Wisconsin will vote their football preferences. Give me a break.

by godemsin08 2008-02-15 10:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/ 2008/president/tx/texas_democratic_prima ry-312.html

RCP also lists an Insider Advantage poll that has Clinton +7.  It appears right now that ARG and Ras are outliers and the race is most likely in the Clinton +7-10 range.

by NJIndependent 2008-02-15 07:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Somebody tell me how white men are going to favor in Wisconsin, Ohio, and Texas?

This may be the factor the shapes the race.

by Djneedle83 2008-02-15 07:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Certainly does not look good for Obama in any of these states. Time to really start to work even harder for Obama to try to stay close in these races.

Dig deep, Obama supporters..he is in deep trouble and needs our support more than ever.
Another 100 bucks to Obama today for me.

by hawkjt 2008-02-15 07:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Hmm...that should counteract the $300 I just gave Hillary.  

by Mar154 2008-02-15 07:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day
no, but this should counteract what you gave to hillary.
by supsupsup 2008-02-15 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Dig deep because HE needs our support.

I'm fisher of men, and hope said HE

http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/

by JFK464 2008-02-15 07:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Perhaps Texas is a better shot for Obama, thanks to its arcane delegate selection rules.

Obama's one big weakness is downscale white voters.  Anf if Hillary wins all three key states, she is the nominee.  Can she beat McCain?
That's another question.

by mikelow1885 2008-02-15 07:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

If she wins narrowly, she will still be significantly behind in the pledged delegate count.

by mainelib 2008-02-15 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

No she is cannot beat McCain

That is obvious

by gil 2008-02-15 07:36AM | 0 recs
she does better than Obama in Ohio

National polls are pretty meaningless. Can any Dem win the nomination without Ohio ? Pretty difficult. Hard to see how Obama beats Mc Cain there, with a 6 month campaign to drive up negatives.

by bigbay 2008-02-15 02:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

The Texas poll showing Clinton with probably around a 7% advantage should scare Clinton. Obama, in almost every state before, has been able to close the gap. She needs to win Texas and win it by a big margin. When has she ever been able to expand on a lead? It seems that each time she just tries to hang on to what lead she has and hope that OBama doesn't win.

by mecarr 2008-02-15 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Hillary was able to win California by 9.6%, very close to the final SUSA poll.  And SUSA didn't show much tightening in the final few days (went from 13% to 10%).  

In Texas, the Latino vote will be a higher percentage of the Dem vote, so it's important for Obama to cut into Hillary's advantage there.

by mikelow1885 2008-02-15 07:20AM | 0 recs
Debates

HRC gets a back-bounce from debates: I think that strong performances in the Texas and Ohio debates can shore up her position.  I'd be happier about her chances of keeping the margin close in Wisconsin if Obama had agreed to a debate - but I think the debates will be really important for Texas and Ohio.  

by mgee 2008-02-15 07:36AM | 0 recs
Other Polling, BUT

I'll post the ARG TX poll below, which reports aqn Obama lead, but really regardless of any polls...

...even IF the current MARGINS ARE MAINTAINED, Obama will still have a huge primary majority.  

End of story.

ARG:

Democrats TX

Clinton 42%
Obama 48%
Someone else 3%
Undecided 7%

Hillary Clinton leads Barack Obama among self-described Democrats 47% to 42%. Obama leads Clinton among self-described independents and Republicans 24% to 71%. Obama leads among men 55% to 29% (47% of likely Democratic primary voters) and Clinton leads among women 54% to 42%. Clinton leads Obama among white voters 51% to 40% (53% of likely Democratic primary voters), Obama leads Clinton among African American voters 76% to 17% (22% of likely Democratic primary voters), and Clinton leads Obama among Latino voters 44% to 42%.

22% of likely Democratic primary voters say they would never vote for Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary and 20% of likely Democratic primary voters say they would never vote for Barack Obama in the primary. 30% of men say they would never vote for Clinton in the primary.

by a gunslinger 2008-02-15 07:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

On polls, Kos had this story yesterday.  Sounds like MYDD is cherry picking.  Ah well.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2 /14/203353/074/622/457046

by crackerdog 2008-02-15 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

"49% of Likely Democratic Primary Voters while Clinton attracts 37%."

That was yesterday, today is 48-40, which probably means it's close to tied. But I'm not surprised.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-02-15 08:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Obama has done virtually no campaigning in Ohio and Texas.

We all know what happens when Obama campaigns in a state. Look at where he was polling in the Super Tuesday states 18 days before.

Look at where he was polling in last Saturday's states. Look at where he was polling in the Potomac Primaries.

If Texas really is close right now (6% or so lead for Clinton), Obama will win.

And I don't get why people are saying "Wisconsin is closer than expected." Up until these recent polls (in the past week), Hillary had a big lead there.

by Cutwolf 2008-02-15 09:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Stop. You're on MYDD, remember? You aren't supposed to base your comments on reality. Everything must be filtered so that regardless of reality, it ultimately benefits Hillary.  Texas should not be within 6 or 7 points, considering the demographics. Of course, if Obama wins there, it will simply be another state that doesn't count.

by godemsin08 2008-02-15 10:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Singer's Addition

Interesting.  Of the two states, I would guess (perhaps wrongly) that Ohio is the more winnable in a general election.  Any ideas on what Obama's unfavorables are like in the two states across parties?

by carloseljefe 2008-02-15 10:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

the rasmussen poll in Texas is the first one that actually makes sense to me. I don't know much about the primary dynamics coming out of Texas (although I lived there for over 10 years) but I'd expect a huge amount of the latino vote to break for Clinton. That alone should give her a substantial win.

Anything under 58% for Clinton would surprise me.

I'm still holding onto the belief that Obama wins Wisconsin by over 10points.

Ohio, which I thought Obama could make a race of at one time doesn't seem likely to be close (although I still believe the polls are undercounting his support by about 4% (mainly on the strength he should get from the black community). I doubt he keeps it within 8 points.

by alex100 2008-02-15 12:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

The way the election in TX is set up, Clinton has a better chance of picking up more delegates in OH. (It's a real screwy system - delegates allocated by state senate district and a caucus that follows the voting.)

by kjblair2 2008-02-15 12:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Poll Day

Yep, I think you're right.  I'm in Austin and everybody I know who cares even remotely about this primary, maybe 8 or 10 folks, will be first time caucus participants for BHO.  It's ridiculous to try to extrapolate anything from this, but it does speak to an enthusiasm that my Texas Democrat friends haven't had since I moved here 12 years ago.

by redjellydonut 2008-02-15 01:31PM | 0 recs

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