MN-Sen: 4 Votes

With the statewide hand recount over pending the retrieval of 133 missing ballots, the Franken campaign, in its daily recount press briefing, is claiming a lead of just 4 votes.

From TPM:

"We are not declaring victory -- we are moving into the next stage of the process," said Franken's lead recount lawyer Marc Elias, in a press briefing going on now with reporters. "But we are going into that ahead by four votes."

As Eric Kleefeld notes, this 4 vote lead has one big caveat attached to it:

The Franken camp's methodology involves taking down the opinions of the local election officials regarding the challenged ballots, and assuming that the local referees' calls will be upheld by the state canvassing board. As such, we are dependent on the Franken camp's numbers and assumptions.

That and the presumption that those missing ballots will be found. D-day for both of these events will be December 16th when the canvassing board meets.

Tags: Al Franken, MN-Sen, norm coleman, recount (all tags)

Comments

10 Comments

Re: MN-Sen: 4 Votes

I like the "we are not declaring victory" messaging.  It heavily implies that they could be declaring victory if they wanted.  Smart.

by the mollusk 2008-12-05 09:18AM | 0 recs
Well yeah

Coleman has declared victory two or three times now.  Franken's not dumb.

by Dracomicron 2008-12-05 09:36AM | 0 recs
Coleman HAS Declared Victory!

Franken absolutely MUST try and create the perception that he's at least leading according to some counts. Otherwise if he DOES pull ahead it seems like something the canvassing board did, and it appears to come out of the blue (via a court ruling or something).

In that case Republicans scream and only those who have been closely following the details will believe the process was fair. This is just how Al Gore lost the election. The PERCEPTION in voters' minds was that he was behind but trying "tricks" to gain voters. That perception enabled the S.Ct. to stop the recount, which they would NEVER have been in a position to do if Gore had been counted ahead, as he legitimately was. In truth he won the election by around 50,000 votes. It wasn't even that close.

As for the two presumptions of Franken's campaign:

1. That the missing ballots will be found:

a. If they AREN'T found, the precinct may try and certify the election night count, rather than the re-count. They would probably be on shaky legal grounds doing this. I don't see how Coleman wouldn't challenge this in court.

The re-count is the re-count. Franken needs to create MASSIVE pressure on Coleman to generate a HUGE backlash to prevent him from suing to stop them from counting all the election night ballots.

b. If they AREN'T found, the more probable scenario is that Franken loses because he just loses 34 votes.

2. The Franken re-count totals:

a. Supposing that the election judges will be upheld in the overwhelming majority of challenges is probably accurate. Most of the challenges are pretty frivolous, and even those that are not are STILL likely to come down on the side of the judges more than 9 times out of 10.

We have former MN elections supervisor Joe Manky's statement that he thinks he'll win ALL of the challenges in Ramsay County for instance. He could be wrong, but that's what he believes.

Franken clearly thinks many Coleman challenges will be denied and most observers do too.

b. Franken has made fewer challenges. If they are all or nearly all tossed out, then he gains. How much we don't know.

Overall, the final count may be terribly close.

by Cugel 2008-12-05 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: MN-Sen: 4 Votes

If you weren't winning but you wanted people to believe you still could win this is exactly what you would say..

If you were confident you were winning you'd say "we're up 200".

I think they are pulling this out of their you know what...

Its one of the first rules of politics: you say you are winning until the very end.. then suddenly its like "oh i guess i lost..well what did you expect me to do? admit i was going to lose"

by obama4presidente 2008-12-05 09:38AM | 0 recs
conversely, if you were actually telling the truth

then you might say whatever the truth is.  I have no idea if Franken is telling the truth.  But since his number is supposedly based on the ruling of the precinct judges, it will be very easy to tell afterwards if he was telling the truth or not.  We'll know exactly how many precinct rulings were overturned and whom they benefited.  If the Franken number adjusted by these rulings turns out within a handful of the final canvassing number, then he will have been telling the truth.

by edparrot 2008-12-05 09:56AM | 0 recs
'200' isn't confidence

It's all shades of gray with this one.  A margin of 200 or so is what got us into this fantastic voyage in the first place.

I don't think they have anything to gain from lying here.  The Franken camp has consistantly presented their numbers as down when they're down and up when they're up, based on internal numbers expectations.

Coleman, on the other hand, is trying the 2000 Florida recount strategy: claim victory and muddle up the process as much as possible so it's hard to refute.

by Dracomicron 2008-12-05 10:00AM | 0 recs
Re: '200' isn't confidence

They ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO GAIN  and its this and i'm suprrised about the naivity on this board:

if its perceived by Minnesotans that Franken lost but is unwilling to recognize it and is dragging it out then it will make it that much harder for him to win in the future via some court order/senate vote or whatever..

Al Gore arguably lost the election in the 24 hours after people had stopped voting.. he never recovered.

by obama4presidente 2008-12-05 10:11AM | 0 recs
Re: MN-Sen: 4 Votes

"That and the presumption that those missing ballots will be found."

The claimed 4 vote lead is not including the missing ballots.  The missing ballots--counted (presumably) or using election-night totals--would add 30-something more to the 4 vote lead.

by wilson 2008-12-05 10:06AM | 0 recs
I still think he needs the rejected absentees

to be counted to win this thing.

I hope those missing ballots are found, obviously, but even with them I suspect Franken will need the absentees to be considered.

by desmoinesdem 2008-12-05 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: MN-Sen: 4 Votes
Amazing. The winner of this race will at best have a couple of dozen more votes it seems.
But lets give some props to the system. Optical scan seems from this result to be a good and stable system. A 200 vote swing out of 3,000,000 is probably as good as you can get with humans involved. And it allows for the deliberate recount process that we are seeing in Minnesota.
While I am fairly sure there are some things that Minnesota will want to change about the recount system. It seems like they will be more in the nature of tweaks then any fundamental rewrite.
Now the only thing that I'd like to see the SOS do right now is put the 5,000 challenged ballots online before the board meets. That transparency would increase the confidence in the final outcome.
by Judeling 2008-12-05 11:20AM | 0 recs

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