Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

On Tuesday, by adopting Prop 8, California voters voted to amend the California constitution to strip same-sex couples of the right to marry. It was a real heart-breaker for progressives here in CA especially who'd worked so hard to defeat it and I think a shock to many people who think of California as progressive. Right now, the margin is 5 points although we do expect that to narrow.

This defeat has been met with tears by many but also a determination to make sure marriage equality returns to California, whether it be through a reversal of 8 by the California Supreme Court or a new ballot initiative to repeal it. The lawsuits have been filed, the drafting is underway, but what can people who are offended that Californians would use the state constitution to strip rights from their fellow citizens do? Yesterday and today, protesters have literally taken to the streets in what appear to be spontaneous protests. Here in Los Angeles, they marched by the thousands in front of the local Mormon church and have stopped traffic in very high traffic areas. You can watch live coverage HERE.

If you know LA, you'll know what a big deal this is:

Hundreds of people protesting on the Westside over the passage of Prop. 8 are causing gridlock in a part of L.A. already famous for bad traffic. Details:

-Portions of Santa Monica Boulevard is closed between Beverly Glen and Westwood boulevards.

-Portions of Westwood Boulevard are also closed north of Santa Monica Blvd.

-Portions of Ohio Avenue are closed east of Westwood Boulevard.

-The closures have caused major congestion on Wilshire Boulevard, a part of which was closed.

-Eastbound Wilshire Boulevard offramp from the 405 Freeway is closed.

These marches are the expression of an outraged populace who don't quite know what to do and in fact I'm on a conference call right now with CA progressives to discuss exactly how to mobilize this passion into real action. Right now, it seems to me that the passage of Prop 8 may have awoken a sleeping giant. We will see if that passion can be harnessed longterm, but it's an amazing thing to see in a state where it's been remarkably difficult to convince people of the need for a real progressive movement and an alternate infrastructure to the California Democratic Party.

Update [2008-11-6 21:8:59 by Todd Beeton]:There's a protest in San Francisco tomorrow. Details HERE.

Update [2008-11-6 21:49:32 by Todd Beeton]:The live feed has ended but you can watch ABC News's report about the protest HERE. The focus of much of the LA protests has been on the local Mormon temple. Apparently some folks were even climbing the fence. Probably not helpful in the long run but again, it's our job to create a productive protest framework that allows people to take meaningful action. More on that in the coming days.

Tags: California, Prop 8 (all tags)

Comments

40 Comments

This Is a Big Deal

When I worked at UCLA, I took that eastbound Wilshire Boulevard exit from the 405 everyday!

I hope that the public becomes better educated about the challenges gays and lesbians face and the need for better laws protecting their right to form partnerships.

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-11-06 04:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

I am outraged at the passage of Prop 8, and at the unwillingness of those who voted for it to see gays as fellow travelers...  I don't want anyone to have to stand outside our big tent, and I respectfully suggest that anyone who accepts the power and clout of our coalition, extend dignity, respect and full rights to all members.

I wholeheartedly support the protests.  

by sarany 2008-11-06 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

Think Prop 214.  Californians vote in a bad measure at first and, well, a learning process (and a backlash) resulted from it.  Ultimately, reversal.

I think there is serious opportunity here to burn out the religious opposition to gay marriage among centrists.

by killjoy 2008-11-06 04:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

What should of been a night of pure relief and happiness for me, electing Barack Obama President of the United States, was instead tarnished by Prop 8's passage. We simultaneously won one massive advance for equal rights in this country and lost the most important gay rights battle since Lawrence v. Texas. Unless the California Supreme Court weighs in and declares that Prop 8 is not a Constitutional amendment, but rather a revision (thereby invalidating it), we really don't have many legal options other than to go back to the voters in 2010 or 2012 and ask for marriage again.

by wjpugliese 2008-11-06 04:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

I'm sick and tired of ASKING for a basic human right.  Ask hell.  Give me my due.

The news that it many of our fellow Obama supporter passed this travesty, put their stamp of approval on denying my rights, is an insult and yes, I think this is a big bad wake up call.

A so-called "coalition" that doesn't accept me, as I am, for who I am, as I define myself, is a coalition that I denounce.  

by sarany 2008-11-06 04:24PM | 0 recs
This is great!

I hope it does not become violent but I am SO GLAD to see people taking action! Take to the streets! We need MORE of these "people power protest"!

by kevin22262 2008-11-06 04:21PM | 0 recs
Push

the diary at Kos.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/6/ 202515/388/739/656237

and while at Kos, push THIS diary!

by kevin22262 2008-11-06 04:23PM | 0 recs
Holy crap. And right at rush hour too!

If traffic was moving on the West Side - a dubious probability on any day whose name ends with "day" - it certainly isn't now.

by mistersite 2008-11-06 04:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

Todd, I agree - I see this as an opportunity, although a sad catalyst for said opportunity.  The No on 8 campaign was terribly run, and this is really an opportunity to finally organize California's Progressive community - up until now California's progressive advocacy has been terribly Balkanized due to geography and other reasons, and hopefully this is a chance to get some movement going here.

I think we've taken California's progressive position for granted - LA County turned out with 82% of the vote, but I've heard second-hand that San Francisco County somehow only turned out 49% - what the hell?  Is that true?  I don't want to throw blame around, but I can't but think that if Bay Area voters had bothered to show up that we could've won.  Once we tallied all of the LA County vote, it looks like the county was basically 50/50.

At any rate, I wrote more in my diary at Calitics.

by auronrenouille 2008-11-06 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

53%.

Utterly pathetic.  Yeah, it's the Yes voters' fault this thing passed, but 53% in the city that would perhaps be most affected by the stripping of this basic human right is absolutely shameful.  I think we really need to take a long hard look at why the No campaign failed so we don't repeat it in the future.

by mistersite 2008-11-06 04:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

I agree - it blows my mind turnout was so low in the city that is the heart of America's GLBT community.  I live in LA, not SF, but know SF fairly well, and I'm frankly baffled as to why that was the case.  LA County didn't have any turnout-driving local issues on the ballot (the only county-wide one was Measure R, a transit measure, but that's not going to drive turnout) so the turnout was earned from the Statewide/Presidential races.

by auronrenouille 2008-11-06 04:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

The only thing I can guess is complacency.  CA was in the bag for BO.  This isn't an excuse... I'm outraged, too.  Just guessing.

by mikeinsf 2008-11-06 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

Maybe Angelos feel more need to escape by bullet train than San Franciscans. ;)

by Dreorg 2008-11-07 03:11AM | 0 recs
They cut the camera

are there any people "live blogging/texting" from the protest? Any pictures or video coming in from the ground?

by kevin22262 2008-11-06 04:39PM | 0 recs
Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

I can say this with a measure of certainty for I was working the polls in one of the poorer districts in the city of Los Angeles. As the token white guy, I stood out amidst the majority Hispanic, Asian and Black voters that make up the majority of who went to the polls  in my precinct.

During the day, I helped a number of voters not only cast their vote for Obama, but also a "Yes" vote on Prop 8. When I was asked to explain the difference between voting "yes" or "no", they emphasized they wanted to make sure they voted against gay marriage. These comments came from Black and Hispanic voters, as most of the Asian voters voted for McCain, a fact that quickly became apparent whenever an Asian voter had to select a party while voting provisionally, they always selected "Republican".

I also had to force a campaign worker for NO ON PROP 8 to move away from the voting location, as he was in violation of election laws. This was because voters inside were complaining about his presence outside the doors leading into voting center.

Frankly, I was not surprised at the result, as Obama himself never supported same-sex marriage in any form. The irony here is that while the gays and lesbians cast their vote for the minority candidate, he and his supporters (read black if you wish) don't believe gays, lesbians and transgendered individuals deserve similar rights. This is not racist, but a fact I saw play out right before my eyes.

by SoCalHillMan 2008-11-06 05:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

The Sacramento Bee indicates that Obama opposed Proposition 8.  He's come extraordinarily close to stating outright support for equal marriage, much closer than any other Democratic national candidate (care to talk about Bill Clinton and DOMA)?

In a letter to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club read Sunday at the group's annual Pride Breakfast in San Francisco, the Illinois senator said he supports extending "fully equal rights and benefits to same-sex couples under both state and federal law."

You'll note that he never uses the words "civil union" - I firmly believe that he's setting himself up to be able to support equal marriage when the dust settles.

But I do agree on your underlying premise - No on 8 did an awful job on outreach to African-American voters.  Since Obama won CA and 8 lost, plainly, some of his voters had to vote for 8.

by auronrenouille 2008-11-06 05:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

Talk about rewriting history. Hillary stood front and center with gay and lesbian voters throughout the primary season, while Obama was hanging out with gay-basher Donnie  McGurkin.

Face it, there wasn't a voter who didn't believe Obama wasn't as liberal as they came, so he had nothing to risk in supporting the GLTG community. It would have been considered a natural stand.

That's been my problem with Obama all along. He hasn't been anywhere near as liberal as his supporters like to think or paint him out to be.

by SoCalHillMan 2008-11-06 05:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

He is a centrist and a pragmatist. Always has been, and that is how he has won in a greater landslide for the dems since LBJ (in pop vote and EV together).it is a democracy after all, you either vote for something or against it.. in this case turn out was abysmal among some big cities (LA for exp) so that is what they get for compliance. The lesson is working harder for what you want next time.

by YourConcernsAreNoted 2008-11-06 06:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

Turnout was abysmal?!! LA had one of the highest - if not THE HIGHEST - turnout of voters this election. That's why all the funding measures passed. When the dust had settled, low income minority Obama voters voted to approve massive spending and an amendment banning gay rights. That is what put everything over the top in LA County, with its citizens now facing the highest sales tax in the nation as a result.

by SoCalHillMan 2008-11-06 07:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

http://www.sfgov.org/site/elections_inde x.asp?id=70720

only 53% turn out for the biggest supporting city for marriage equality. it could have been done better.

by YourConcernsAreNoted 2008-11-06 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

82% turnout in L.A. That is a truly amazing percentage of voters in a city so huge and diverse.

by LakersFan 2008-11-06 10:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

When you look more closely at the turnout maps, it becomes quickly apparent that the lack of turnout was in the Bay Area; LA had 82% turnout, but SF had only 53%, which blows my mind - it simply doesn't make sense.

LA County voted for 8 by less than 1%, which at the moment appears to be largely based on African-American and Latino support.  SF voted against 8, 75%-25%.

by auronrenouille 2008-11-06 09:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

Correction:

The Chronicle is now reporting that San Francisco turnout was in the mid-70s, which leaves me somewhat confused as to both the status of 8 as well as the turnout numbers, but it does seem to indicate that turnout was reasonably consistent across the state.

by auronrenouille 2008-11-06 09:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

Misplaced resources by the campaign. Too much in SF, not enough in LA (where the bulk of the votes are).

by LakersFan 2008-11-06 10:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

Oh... here we go. Both are on our side and neither thought they could, as national figures, make the leap to support all-out marriage.

We can compare and contrast forever: BO had McGurkin at a rally, seemed squeamish (to some) at a debate about HIV testing, blah blah.  HRC only wanted to repeal portions of DOMA (as opposed to BO wanting to repeal it completely), is married to the President who enacted DOMA and DADT, blah blah.

Whatever. Whether you like it or not, both candidates avoided hot-button cultural issues like gays and guns to get elected.  That's just how it is. Regardless, Obama is President now, and he gets to pick Supreme Court justices, and, like Hillary, he's on our side.  Take the long view and get real.

by mikeinsf 2008-11-06 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

Boy, are you naive. Who do you think did more damage to Carter's Presidency or Clinton's first two years of his first term, Republicans or Democrats? Kennedy destroyed Carter's chances of re-election and Congressional Democrats damn near sunk Clinton's as well. Let's see over the next two years how many and which Dems actually support Obama's positions on the issues. Having lived through this crap twice, I'm not ready to believe the third time's the charm.

by SoCalHillMan 2008-11-06 11:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

Obama has a clear mandate (PV and Ev landslide) on his side as well as most of the media. not to forget he is brilliant and will get anything done if he puts his mind to it (think how he rose to power from 4 years ago and now changed the map and won bigger than any dem in 40 years in pv).

by YourConcernsAreNoted 2008-11-07 12:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

I am responding to your assertion that Hillary is somehow better in LGBT issues than Obama, when in fact their stated positions are nearly indistinguishable.  

I'm not really sure what Kennedy's primary challenge to Carter has to do with this.

by mikeinsf 2008-11-07 12:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Blame Obama Voters For Prop 8

Oh, come on.  Their policies on GLBTs are all but identical.  

by Dreorg 2008-11-07 07:43AM | 0 recs
Equal right in New Mexico

My partner and I in New Mexico are going to take on our local school district, with the help of the local union, for not allowing Domestic Partners to have health benefits, other school districts in our state do.  State Government employees do.  We believe this is our time to move a progressive agenda forward and we truly believe in EQUAL rights for ALL.

Our state has tried to pass Domestic Partnership rights the last two years and we have come very close.  On Tuesday, three Conservatives were ousted in our state legislature and replaced with three Progressives.  This will help bring equality to all.

by Leo Cuevas 2008-11-06 05:22PM | 0 recs
Damn - I wouldn't have been able to get to work

if I still lived there.

Good for the protesters.  I hope that they do run another initiative on this, right alongside one to ban the Mormon Church (let the court strike it down, LOL)

by activatedbybush 2008-11-06 05:25PM | 0 recs
And ...

...if you can't make it to Los Angeles, you can find a Mormon Temple or a "meetinghouse" near you right here.

by Airpower 2008-11-06 06:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

Court Challenge:
It's a constitutional amendment, I never understood how the court challenge will work. I get that it supposedly violates the equal protection clause, but it's equally valid as an amendment. You have to co-equal provisions so either the court rules the new amendment as an exception carved out to the EP clause, or it goes to the SCOTUS who rules the same thing. I don't know how else it could work. You cannot rule an amendment now part of the constitution unconstitutional.
by MNPundit 2008-11-06 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

The premise, which I think is unfortunately weak, is that the proposition represents a fundamental change to the State Constitution.  There's a lot of discussion and analysis over at Calitics.  I do hope to be proven wrong about its weakness though.

by auronrenouille 2008-11-06 10:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

are you trained as a lawyer? I ask this because Big Tent Democrat, armando, makes the same point about the weakness of the case. yet, I find the argument bizzare. Equal protection is not a weak argument. But for the fact that this is gay marriage, this would be a no brainer in terms of the conceptual frame work as describes. The concept of equality under the law has far reaching implications. For example, if this can be changed by a bare majority, what then prevent other classes, even suspect ones, from being so limited by law? One can certainly point to the US S Ct law, but that should be irrelevant to the analysis if one is using the CA law. I am really unsure what people mean by unconvincing or weak. Do you mean politically weak ? That seems to me a different question than legal. of the areas of law, equal protection is one of the most compelling along with fundmental rights like freedom of speech.

by bruh3 2008-11-06 10:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

Owch, I'm not so sure I like being in his "tent," lol.

I am, but I'm recently admitted to the Bar and my current practice area doesn't touch constitutional law at all, so I'm mostly falling back on my con law coursework - I don't want to sound like an authority that I'm not.

My fear is that equal protection is a weak argument in this case.  Overturning a law under rational basis analysis is so rare that, when it happens, it's major constitutional law news.  No court has been inclined so far to find anything other than rational basis for sexual orientation.

In Re Marriage Cases was decided on fundamental rights, anyhow (and sexual orientation, or more appropriately, status as a gay or lesbian person, got strict scrutiny in terms of fundamental rights analysis), so I'm not sure that talking about EP is going to get you anywhere.  I just continue to be concerned that trying to convince the Cal Supreme Court that, not only is it a fundamental right protected by the Constitution, but that it's a fundamental right protected by the Constitution whose rescission would change the "underlying principles" of the Constitution is an uphill battle.  But, to be honest, the more I talk about how the due process argument would be framed, the more I like it, so who knows how it's going to go down.

Bear in mind, we're not dealing with the Mass SJC here, which is unashamedly liberal - the In Re Marriage court had a Republican appointee and the Court is subject to occasional retention elections, although I must admit I don't know when the next ones are up.

by auronrenouille 2008-11-06 11:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

a) the case as I remember was decided botth on fundamental rights and equal protection. That gays could not be treated differently because they were a protected class. that's equal protection analysis if I m remembrring it. Now, the court could carve out some weirdness, but from what I understand them to be saying I don't see how they can claim they weren't going for equal protection when you describe gays as a protected class. I am no expert on CA Law. Just observing the non political aspect of the case in light of the language they  used.

b) Most of your post as I suspect was political. I don't  know what this court will do. I don't think that should be the determinant here. This isn't a situation with the US S Ct where it is almost certain failure. The prior ruling by the court suggests that the politics for them in this is not clear. More than that, I think the choice here is bring the case or wait until one can pass a repeal of the amendment. My problem with that is that I really do when i thinka bout this case now have a bigger problem with it. Namely, is CA advocating a mob rule? Do we live by gthe rule of law or not? This would set a terrible precedent for a court to find gays to be a suspect class, claim to have found a fundamental right, and then decide due to political cowardice to ignore Constutional frames for political reason. The reason for this is obvious- this then goes beyond gays. It goes to anyone or any group they later find or have previously found to be a supect class. Does that then mean that the public can undecide the cases by  a bare majority .

In essense, it would turn equal protection and fundamental rights on its head. It would to me become a virtually meaningless turn if there are no strong safeguards than this. But again I dont understand CA law. Just observations about the ramification of such an approach to what their prior case law described.

c) I also remain unconvinced by the comments about- well they rarely fine these things to be revisions. Mainly because I am left with asking how many times does this sort of issue really come up in this way? That's more of a quanity question, not one of changing the ability of the court to have any say at all on rights in CA.

by bruh3 2008-11-07 06:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

a) On a closer read, you're right - I'm coming to think that I should just read the whole damn case rather than the headnotes.  It'd sure make nice nighttime reading ;p.

b) I don't disagree.  Most states don't send, as a general rule, fundamental rights to propositions.  Those that do often base it on a super majority that must be ratified by the legislature.  California's proposition system is extremely broken - we can take away rights with a 50%+1 margin, but we can't tax ourselves without a 66.67% margin.  That's silly at best and disgusting at worst.  If I were the Ayatollah of California, I'd abolish the proposition system in toto.  But it's the system we're stuck with right now, and a lot of folks over at Calitics are debating about whether or not to reform the Constitution now or after we've re-voted on 8.  I think we do it now - voting on rights is inherently disgusting.

c) There's extremely little precedent on revisions.  The one main case was Raven v. Deukmejian, discussed over at Calitics, which is not exactly helpful to us, though not necessarily harmless.  The Court is going to have to address whether Raven is a floor or a ceiling, because in Raven, the proposition in question, which would essentially abolish all California criminal law jurisprudence that was in conflict with Federal criminal law jurisprudence, changes a much larger scope of rules and laws, and, unlike Prop 8, has an undeterminable effect - it is not possible to know what kind of effect that the proposition in Raven would've had at first glance.  Having said that, the Court will have to first decide whether Raven is a floor or a ceiling; I am confident that they're not going to find it to be a floor, but after they decide that, where are they going to put said floor?  Above or below 8?

As I said - I hope I'm wrong, and I hope that I eat all of these words, but it just feels like an uphill battle.  Either that or we're going to establish some great new case law that helps us reform the Proposition system, so that would certainly be a win-win if that's what happens :).

by auronrenouille 2008-11-07 07:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

I am not an expert on this. But to rule it a floor, but then leave out 8 would seem to be make the law caprious. Not that it has ever stopped judges from being political enough to do just that. But like I said, the whole situation turns equal protection on its head. Its a very conservative construction of the concept of rights, which is ironic given the goal was liberalization.

by bruh3 2008-11-07 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Prop 8: People Have Taken To The Streets

disagree- one fo the problems with the gay mvoement is that its not more antagonistic and in your face. I dont mean the sexuality at the parades. i mean for the rights. The same way that malcolm x provided a counter weight to Martin Luther King there needs to be an Act Up for civil rights for gays.

by bruh3 2008-11-06 11:01PM | 0 recs

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