Post-Debate Thread

Sarah Palin acquitted herself more effectively tonight than she did with Katie Couric. The problem is that this wasn't enough. Despite the talk from some that the bar Palin had to top was well underground, Palin had to not only deliver a performance free of gaffes (and it's not clear to me that she even did this -- embracing Dick Cheney and mistaking the top General in Afghanistan with a Civil War-era General were not particularly smooth), she had to seem credible as Vice President. She had to have gravitas.

But after an hour and a half of going up against Joe Biden, at least the second half of which she appeared flat on her feet and unable to conjure up all of her empty talking points, she did not come off as Vice Presidential. She sounded like a moderately effective surrogate -- a little better than a Carly Fiorina, not as good as a Mitt Romney -- but not as an able partner to John McCain, and certainly not as one who could step in as President should God forbid anything happen to McCain.

In this regard, this was not a successful debate for the McCain-Palin ticket. While it may have staved off the hemorrhaging of support for the Republicans, it did little to nothing to swing the momentum back away from the Obama-Biden ticket.

Update [2008-10-2 22:42:32 by Todd Beeton]:Totally agree with Jonathan here. It's funny, the post-debate buzz on CNN seems to be that "it wasn't a game changer" but I have to say, I think this was only close to a draw in a political sense, from an expectations vs. reality perspective. Sure she didn't fall on her face. But looking at it as a debate and even as a political event, I think it was so monumentally clear who won this thing and I think viewers will concur it was Joe Biden. As David Gergen said, this was "the debate of Joe Biden's life." Watch perhaps Joe's finest moment in the debate below and I dare you to keep a dry eye.

Update [2008-10-2 22:44:17 by Todd Beeton]:Umm, CNN has like 12 people on stage all with laptops to give their analysis. 12 people, really? MSNBC it is.

Update [2008-10-2 22:50:36 by Todd Beeton]:On my way to MSNBC I stopped on FOX and saw some of the Luntz focus group. 4 people said they switched their vote as a result of the debate: 3 to McCain, 1 to Obama. Luntz: "This debate will make a difference in this race. Watch the polling in the next 48 hours."

Update [2008-10-2 23:11:56 by Jonathan Singer]: Pay heed to Judd Legum, Hillary Clinton's research director, who wrote last week "Ignore The Pundits: How To Figure Out Who Won The Debate." With that in mind...

CBS News Poll of Uncommitted Voters Watching the Debate)

46% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Joe Biden was the winner. 21% thought Sarah Palin won, 33% thought it was a draw… 98% after the debate saw [Biden] as knowledgeable (79% before the debate).

Those are huge numbers.

Update [2008-10-2 23:13:20 by Todd Beeton]:One of my favorite post-debate pundit moments was Paul Begala on CNN. He said that Sarah Palin did not make the case once why Barack Obama is a risky choice, while Joe Biden time and time again reiterated that John McCain would be "more of the same." In other words, "Sarah Palin was looking out for Sarah Palin tonight. She thinks it's over and is looking toward 2012." Awesome.

Update [2008-10-2 23:14:27 by Jonathan Singer]: CNN polling gives Biden the win by a 51 percent to 39 percent margin. That's two-for-two for the Democratic ticket in post-debate polls.

Update [2008-10-2 23:17:53 by Todd Beeton]:Also from CNN, on the question of whether Palin is qualified to serve as VP, she went from 42% Yes 54% No before the debate, to 46% Yes 53% No after. A +5% move isn't bad but the fact that this debate performance couldn't get her back to where a majority feels she's qualified has to be seen as a failure.

Tags: Debate, Vice President, White House 2008 (all tags)

Comments

85 Comments

Re: Post-Debate Thread

She was folksy, and the conservatives will be thrilled, she didn't go Couric on us.

Biden, after he clamed down, won the last hour.

No harm no foul, not a game changer.

by WashStateBlue 2008-10-02 06:40PM | 0 recs
CBS News focus group

500 independent voters:

Who won?
Biden 42%
Palin 22%

Just saw it on TV. Also, 18% of voters said more likely to vote for Obama, 10% more likely to vote for McCain.

by existenz 2008-10-02 07:04PM | 0 recs
Sarah Palin

came in with low expectations.  People were waiting for her to make Couric kinds of misstatements.  She made some inconsequential errors, like forgetting the name of the general in Afghanistan, but there was nothing Couric-sized in the deficits in her performance.  I am sure she is happy it's over, and after watching her for an hour-and-a-half, so am I.  If that is the standard to which she is held, people will applaud her successes tonight.

But frankly, she was awful.  She had a certain strength in the first part of the debate, like a student who has mastered the spelling of words for a class quiz, but clearly, when she didn't know the answer to the question, she simply changed the subject, and she frequently changed the subject.  I am sure that when her handlers recognized the magnitude of their problem, that is precisely what they taught her to do, and I thought she did it rather effectively, but it will be interesting to count the number of times she didn't answer a question.  My guess is that she didn't know the answers to at least half of the questions.

As time went on during this excessively long hour-and-a-half, she was running out of steam.  It was sort of like she exhausted every she had to say, and instead of saying substantive things, she started to parrot the same tired cliches about John McCain being a maverick and reformer over and over again.  

I am not going to bother to compare her performance with Joe Biden's.  To do so would be to dignify her performance as somehow on a par with his.  They occupy different universes.

by Beltway Dem 2008-10-02 07:06PM | 0 recs
Biden won and it is a game changer!
all I can say that Biden looks to me the only candidate among 4 people running for prez or VP who is actually Qualified to be a President.
Biden won so much, that if I will be McCain, I will try to convince Palin to withdrew for family reason.
by engels 2008-10-02 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Biden won and it is a game changer!

Who are you and what did you do with engels!?!!

by the mystical vortexes of sedona 2008-10-02 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

I think the "war on the media" meme is going to really start to bite the McCain camp in the ass.

by dannybauder 2008-10-02 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Pat Buchanan is predictably blowing smoke.

by skohayes 2008-10-02 06:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

The thing that surprised me was her willingness to jettison the mainstream Republican party and it's long-held positions in her effort to establish she and McCain as 'mavericks.'  The only problem is she and McCain aren't running as independents.  For most of the debate she sounded like she was running with Ross Perot.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-02 06:42PM | 0 recs
That's Our Joe!

Biden had a better debate than Obama did last week.  A disciplined and focussed Biden is a pleasure to listen to.  

Gwen Ifill is a total pro.

by mboehm 2008-10-02 06:43PM | 0 recs
Gwen Ifill

I thought she was awful. She asked easy, predictable questions and never pressed Sarah Palin to be specific and answer the questions. She never asked about Palin's record in Alaska, other than softball energy issues.

Also, she allowed Palin to get away with yes and no answers on so many issues. Compared to Katie Couric, Ifill straight up sucked.

by existenz 2008-10-02 07:06PM | 0 recs
Re: That's Our Joe!

Disagree... Gwen Sucked.  Bring back jim.

Other than that... spot on.

by yitbos96bb 2008-10-02 07:07PM | 0 recs
Re: That's Our Joe!

I thought she did well on controlling the amount of time spent on answers, though you are right, she didn't try to keep her on topic (though she didn't need to do that with Biden)

by Pa Woman 2008-10-02 07:14PM | 0 recs
Re: That's Our Joe!

in her defense, I do have to say that the terms of the debate were negotiated between the campaigns. One of the terms that was negotiated was a short time period for response and no follow ups.

by bushsucks 2008-10-02 07:20PM | 0 recs
Re: That's Our Joe!

so were the terms of the first debate and one of those was no direct response.  Lehrer said Screw That...

by yitbos96bb 2008-10-02 07:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

LOL...Pitchfork Pat is spinning like a top!

Pat thinks she would have beaten Lincoln at the Lincoln Douglas debate...

by WashStateBlue 2008-10-02 06:43PM | 0 recs
Really?

HAHAHA!!!

by kevin22262 2008-10-02 06:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Palin definitely won "cute." Just what I always wanted in a Vice-President.

by royce 2008-10-02 06:45PM | 0 recs
her "cute"

was making me sick!

If I want her kind of "cute", I will watch "Leave it To Beaver".

by kevin22262 2008-10-02 06:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread
Okay guys, as always, you make watching these debates more enjoyable (my labrador snored through the whole thing), but I have to get up early in the AM.
Good night!
by skohayes 2008-10-02 06:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

My expectations were that Palin would win this debate quite easily.  Instead, Biden completely destroyed her.  I was very pleasantly surprised.

by agpc 2008-10-02 06:46PM | 0 recs
Serious?

Why?!

by kevin22262 2008-10-02 06:48PM | 0 recs
I should add

Why did you think she would win?

by kevin22262 2008-10-02 06:49PM | 0 recs
Re: I should add

The only reason I can think of is the exceedingly low bar Republican's have created for themselves -a win by default situation.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-10-02 06:53PM | 0 recs
Re: I should add

I also thought that she would win. Expectations were so low for her, that even Dan Quayle would have won. The other thing is that her "hockey mom", "moose hunter" bullshit plays real well with people of low intelligence. Thirdly, she has mastered the art of saying just about any nonsensical thing with a straight face.

I am pleasently surprised with how things turned out. Let's wait for the presidential polls, but if the post-debate focus groups/polls are any indicator, it looks like nothing changed tonight. If the polls in the next few days don't show a significant surge for McCain, Obama is going to win in a landslide.

by bushsucks 2008-10-02 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

CNN focus group: Biden overwhelmingly won.

by fsm 2008-10-02 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

And, unlike the Fox group, more of them decided to vote in favor of Obama.

by fsm 2008-10-02 06:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

CNN insta-poll of uncommitted voters went 46-21 for Biden.

Same poll showed 18% are now for Obama, 10% are now for McCain.

by randomscientist 2008-10-02 07:00PM | 0 recs
That Biden moment

hit me. I "felt his pain". I am serious. I choked up and teared up with him.

by kevin22262 2008-10-02 06:48PM | 0 recs
Re: That Biden moment

Did you notice how he had no response to that moment?   Not "I'm sorry about your wife and daughter, but..."  Or, "And for others who have been or are single parents..." Not a word.  

by asherrem 2008-10-02 06:54PM | 0 recs
Re: That Biden moment

You mean "she"?

by kevin22262 2008-10-02 07:08PM | 0 recs
Re: That Biden moment

I did indeed.

And um, I'm cute so you can't bring attention to my mistakes  ;)

by asherrem 2008-10-02 07:10PM | 0 recs
hahaha!

Well gosh darn... I bet you are cute as the dickens.

hahaha

by kevin22262 2008-10-02 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: That Biden moment

Her response was, "John McCain and I are mavericks".

Didn't see the whole debate live, but Biden talking about his family, his dad, struggling as a single parent was the key moment for me.  I think Palin is very genuine when speaking about being a "regular" person and that is also her weakness from an experience standpoint.  Biden has plenty of faults but it is clear he has not forgotten his roots and he has dealt with some tough things in his life.  

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-10-02 07:09PM | 0 recs
Re: That Biden moment

She has $1MM in assets.  2 vacation homes, lake rights, a plane, and a main home.  I do not see her as a "regular" person, no matter what she said!

by Pa Woman 2008-10-02 07:16PM | 0 recs
Re: That Biden moment

She was trying to lull you into a false sense of regularness with her hypnotizing winks.

I can't believe you didn't buy it.  When are we going to live in a world where women who act like spoiled 8 year olds get the respect they deserve?

by asherrem 2008-10-02 07:20PM | 0 recs
Re: That Biden moment

ROFL!  I almost vomited, but hypnotized?  I think not!

by Pa Woman 2008-10-02 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

LOL. Pat Buchanon said Palin "wiped the floor with Joe Biden."

Scarborough should be on their debate coverage. He's willing to be reasonably objective. Buchanon will give credit to Obama and other Democrats during the typical cable programs, but in the heat of an us-or-them question he defaults to the right and it's often embarrassing, like tonight.

by Gary Kilbride 2008-10-02 06:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

He's desperate, and just like Ed Rollins on CNN, is the Republican spin representative.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-10-02 06:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

She used to be a Buchanan supporter remember ... and besides .. his sister doesn't want to go unemployed in the future .. even if it means working for Tom Tancredo 2.0

by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle 2008-10-02 07:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Not exactly new here(been visiting this site or years), but this is the first time I'm posting a comment.

Some thoughts on the debate:

A.)Palin was going out of her way to be cute.  She wasn't...  At all.  She overplayed it, and I think that cost her.

2.)Biden- thankfully- did not go overboard at any point nor become condescending.  Big plus.

VI.)Hopefully, no one was planning on taking a shot anytime the word "Maverick" came up, otherwise welcome to AlcoholPoisoningville.

#.)In my opinion, Biden won by a margin of let's say...  63-37.

-DS

by doomsdayshark 2008-10-02 06:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

"Hey Putin (wink wink) don't rear your head in our airspace dontchaknow (wink smile wink)"

If women want to be taken seriously, "cute" is not the way to do it.  

by asherrem 2008-10-02 06:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

When Biden had that moment where he choked up, that was very emotional. It was real. It was sincere. It wasn't scripted like all of Palin's responses. Biden won many hearts, I'm sure, with his response and I think it will play very well with independent and undecided women voters. Biden was very impressive tonight!

by Steve24 2008-10-02 06:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

": "This debate will make a difference in this race. Watch the polling in the next 48 hours."

I think Luntz is spinning...

But, I never underestimate the potential for the American public to pull stupid out of their backside.

by WashStateBlue 2008-10-02 06:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

C'mon... How much pressure was Luntz under to deliver a GOP win this time? It's awfully easy to skew those samples when you have the motivation and go-ahead.

by vcalzone 2008-10-02 06:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

I was about to yak if she said it again...

by WashStateBlue 2008-10-02 06:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Did you hear her call Biden O'biden??  LOL!

Mudflats had Palin Bingo, and I'm guessing that you could have hit with ALL 4 cards!

by Pa Woman 2008-10-02 07:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Interesting comment by Paul Begala to the effect that she did well for herself but didn't help McCain, she's running for 2012.  Ha!  I can see what he means.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-02 06:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Interesting comment by Paul Begala to the effect that she did well for herself but didn't help McCain, she's running for 2012.

It depends on what the economy is like.  If the economy has recovered by 2012 .. she won't run .. cause she'll get slaughtered like Dole did ... if it hasn't ... Romney and Huckabee will likely run too

by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle 2008-10-02 07:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Don't forget the gingrich either.

by yitbos96bb 2008-10-02 07:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

here's my prediction.

Obama/Biden will win the election. She will be impeached as Governor and has a good chance of being convicted and removed from office. She is not especially popular with even her own party.

by bushsucks 2008-10-02 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Not to mention Huckabee would destroy her with a smile.  But I think she thinks she is some kind of values conservative wunderkind.  She is so eager for approval that all of the rallies and public attention is going straight to her head, which doesn't seem capable of holding many complex ideas all at once.

Having digested this for a while I think she did meet the low expectations set for her but a more subtle narrative may emerge where she actually did the McCain 'brand' some irreperable harm, on consistency, policy and integrity.  The bleeding may have been staunched on the outside but now it is internal.  I can see McCain being very alarmed at some of the policy issues she brought unwittingly to the public attention, not least of which same-sex civil rights and her extremely simplistic and populist frame for their economic policy in general.  Their contributors and bundlers may not be too impressed.  I'm guessing that the net negatives of her performance will become more obvious in the next few days.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-02 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Thanks, that's exactly what it feels like to me.  And wants to get her hands on Cheney's levers of power.  She gives me the major creeps, frankly.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-02 10:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Barracudas are cannibalistic.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-02 11:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

First off, HD is not Sarah Palin's friend!  LOL!

OK, that said, I can't believe that she tied herself to Cheney, I can't believe she brought her props to the debate, and I can't believe people are going to let her get away with the fact that she didn't answer questions, but kept going back to her talking points!

Game Changer?  I think not!  She was snarky, and Joe was a gentleman!

by Pa Woman 2008-10-02 07:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

luntz is a putz.   The CNN group had about 8 or 9 change their vote and only a few to McCain.

by yitbos96bb 2008-10-02 07:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Only 1 to McCain, the other's had already decided on McCain.

by Pa Woman 2008-10-02 07:05PM | 0 recs
Best moments

I'm surprised no one caught Palin's flub: "It's a toxic mess on Mainstreet that's affecting Wallstreet."

I'm also surprised people are complimenting Palin for not answering the questions asked and giving prerehearsed scripts instead. This was a smart strategy, but also obvious: you can't hope to make up for a lifetime of incuriosity, so no matter what the moderator asks, she gives a few sentences she can recite from memory.

by Memekiller 2008-10-02 07:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Best moments

She was talking too fast, I didn't catch that!

by Pa Woman 2008-10-02 07:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Best moments

I think there's going to be flub forgiveness on both sides tonight... and that's quite alright with me.  I think Biden beat her on the issues as well as in the gaffe race.

by mistersite 2008-10-02 07:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Best moments

Thing is, for Biden, a flub's a flub. With Palin, it's an echo of Couric.

by Memekiller 2008-10-02 07:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Four people out of how many in the room switched their vote?

by RandyMI 2008-10-02 07:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

52,384

Big room.

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-10-02 07:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

She would be foolish to run against an incumbent in 2012. Obama, if he wins, would be in the most favorable situation imaginable in 2012, an incumbent with his party in power only one term. Carter in 1980 is the only loser in 100 years in that scenario. Normally it's a landslide for the incumbent.

Palin probably helps McCain only because the polling margin right now is outside where it figures to be. An open race shouldn't be a 5-7 point margin against a known quantity like McCain. I prefer a power rating-type measurement and this cycle should be 2-4 point Democratic edge, not 5-7. A natural downshift may be attributed to Palin when in reality it's simply a return to where the race logically fits.

by Gary Kilbride 2008-10-02 07:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Howard Fineman just called her a wolverine, who grabbed on to a strangers pants leg...

by WashStateBlue 2008-10-02 07:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

There seems to be a lot of talk about what people are looking for when watching a debate. One being personality, another a command of the issues, and three do they look like they can play the part.

I think it was a draw on the first one. I know Palin and McCain folks really wanted to win the personality portion. But it also felt that way watching it and it shouldn't. You shouldn't have to appear to be trying to be folksy. It seemed forced I think most objective viewers. But to the viewers that would eat her shit I am sure they loved it and so will a choice set of independents. Biden seemed very much himself and unpretentious which he sometimes can be and at some points very real like in the video above.

On the second I think Biden clearly sounded more knowledgeable. Mostly because his answers were well answers. Palin kept going back to a canned answer approach which again wore thin after the first half hour and became increasingly obvious after that. But she never got caught off guard other than on surprisingly enough the social issue of gay rights.

On the third I again think Biden took it. He seems to have the demeanor and authority that Palin lacks. She talks about being a governor but I don't see it. Like I know you don't have to fit the prototypical mode of old white male but it was deeper than that. You hear it when Hillary speaks. You hear it when Janet Naplitano speaks or Kathleen Sebelius. You just don't get the confidence of a leader from Palin.

I think at the end of the day Biden took it to objective viewers. But Palin didn't tell us she'd find and and get back to ya on that one and to the pundits that is all that will matter for them to call it a draw.

by flux08 2008-10-02 07:11PM | 0 recs
Luntz?

Is he really going to push the notion that the polls will now move in McCain's favor?  I thought she did well, was adorable, but to conclude that she won, I don't know how anyone could make that conclusion.

It's Fox v. CNN polls again.

by Blazers Edge 2008-10-02 07:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Luntz?

Sure he is...that's who is...that is what his spin will be.

The early polls says Biden won, but no one switched their votes.

It's a push, and that is what I expected.

Folks, this is about Obama vs McCain.

It was last week.

It will be so neek week.

And, that is good for our side.

by WashStateBlue 2008-10-02 07:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

CNN Poll of watchers of the debate:
Biden 51, Palin 36
Biden: 64% though he did better than expected, 14% worse.
Palin: 84% better, 7% worse (not a tough thing there...)
Palin Qualified: 46% say yes, 4% up from before the debate

They didn't mention the demographics of the poll; last week, more democrats than republicans were polled.

by fsm 2008-10-02 07:13PM | 0 recs
How I score it

First off -- I don't think she was going for "cute". I think she was going for "folksy", a la say Ronald Reagan. I think it worked -- for about 5 minutes. Then it was ok -- for about 5 minutes. Then it got old and grating for the rest of the debate. And I think that's the key in scoring it.

So:

  1. If you're a conservative base Republican, she won huge. Bigger than McCain. We knew that going in.
  2. If you're a conservative intellectual Republican, she won a squeaker. Her answers were, for the most part, vapid, but she delivered them well and proved she could learn or at least be coached.
  3. If you're a moderate Republican, probably slightly reassuring, but not massively.
  4. If you're a Democrat of any stripe, she lost, not as badly as she might have, but still badly.
  5. If you're an independent (the key here) I think she lost moderately broadly but not badly. The "folksy" got entirely too old and grating, and anyone who's independent at this point is going to notice she failed to answer much of anything.

Secondarily:

  1. If you're a base Republican, Biden lost. We knew that.
  2. If you're most anyone else, Biden won, even if you also think Palin won. The problem here is that most of Biden's best remarks were never responded to, particularly his absolute demolition of maverickyness. Biden consistently advanced Obama and demolished McCain with substance, and fended off every Palin talking point; if you hadn't already bought into the talking points, he won. Palin was ineffective at either hitting Obama or defending McCain on much of anything -- again, unless you're already predisposed to like McCain and dislike Obama.

So my scorecard is in the 60-40 range, maybe 65-35. It's impossible for it to pass 70-30.

I think we may see apparently paradoxical results in polling. Flat to slight uptick for Obama, with possibly a slight uptick for McCain as well (i.e. each's numbers may go up, with undecideds deciding; I don't think McCain's gains will come from Obama losses). Gains for Palin on positive/negative, she helped herself, but even better gains for Biden. Flat to slight gain for Obama; loss for McCain, who loses because of how poorly she defended his maverickyness.

Of course I've been terribly wrong on these things before, but that's my take on it.

by Texas Gray Wolf 2008-10-02 07:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Palin did what she needed to do - earn a passing grade to stem the embarassment she's caused McCain lately.

Biden did what only he can do - he was supurb, and assured the momentum towards Obama will continue.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-10-02 07:14PM | 0 recs
According to Focus Groups

Palin lost the debate when she said that Obama was raising the white flag in Iraq. They they thought she did well, but those few seconds tipped the balance as well as when Biden talked about being a single parent raising his own children.

by Zzyzzy 2008-10-02 07:18PM | 0 recs
CNN Poll

Biden won the debate 51-39 percent. Both candidates did better than expected.

by Zzyzzy 2008-10-02 07:15PM | 0 recs
Biden will pick up the male voters

Paraphrasing somewhat--
``I am not going to let anyone say that just because I am a man, I do not know how to raise children..''

That is going to resonate with a bunch of people.  

by ann0nymous 2008-10-02 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Carl Berstein just said, She is ready to be Secretary of the Interior, not President.

Even Ed Rollins said, this doesn't change it, it's about McCain.

by WashStateBlue 2008-10-02 07:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

Palin stopped the bleeding.  However, the Republicans are 5-7% behind and I doubt it will change.  I agree that Palin represented herself well, but couldn't really defend the indefensible.  It is a game to say "don't look in the past" or "don't play the blame game" when your party is to blame.  

by flatblade 2008-10-02 07:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Post-Debate Thread

I think "don't look in the past" combined with "i've only been here 5 weeks" are not going to win many votes for McCain.

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow 2008-10-02 07:38PM | 0 recs
Biden's Favorables

in CNN poll improved to 69% (from 58%); Palin's improved to 56% (from 48%)

by fsm 2008-10-02 07:24PM | 0 recs
I have to admit

I did not think I'd come away from this liking Sarah Palin. But I do. She was extremely gracious to Joe Biden in a way that we just haven't seen. Of course, that could have just been Biden breaking through the partisanship. First thing he did was walk right up to her dad to shake his hand.

by vcalzone 2008-10-02 07:40PM | 0 recs
Re: I have to admit

Not me...

I still think she's a smuck... she has personality and she is good in this bullshit soundbite "debate format... but 1) she spews ignorance...she is bush with Breasts... i just want to do to her what I want to do to push... slap them and then shake the shit out of them while screaming..."WHy ARE You THIS STUpid?"   2)  Bush scared the hell out of me when he got "elected".   Palin TERRIFIES ME... She reminds me of Katherine Harris a bit...  

by yitbos96bb 2008-10-02 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: I have to admit

She IS like Bush. I mean, truthfully, if you met Bush outside of a political setting, he'd be the life of the party and a really nice guy.

by vcalzone 2008-10-02 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: I have to admit

As Carl Berstein, Secretary of Interior...

If your idea was drill baby drill...

Vcal, she is a beauty pagent journalism major, that's her GIG, to make you think she is likeable.

Just ask yourself this: do you get the nickname the Barracuda if you are the sweetest little thing?

She would rip your head off and crap down the hole if she needed to get where she was needing to go....

by WashStateBlue 2008-10-02 08:08PM | 0 recs
Re: I have to admit

This is true. And as time has worn on, I've gotten more and more angry at her performance. She attacked Biden like a shih tzu, and it was only his surprisingly high level of grace that kept her from coming across as extremely negative. Biden is going to keep Obama civil at all times, and God bless him for taking the spot.

As for her, in the long run, letting her think she won is smart on his part. She feels very confident now, and that's just going to make her more and more irritating, make more and more people think she's being overly presumptuous (I hesitate to say uppity, but it applies). It's started already with her Carl Cameron interview. By November, Americans will vote against McCain just to keep from having to hear that accent anymore.

by vcalzone 2008-10-03 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: I have to admit

To put it another way, sometimes little kids get very bossy. They start thinking that they are geniuses, and when faced with one that doesn't belong to them, adults typically watch with a mixture of amusement and anger, but never say a word. They let them keep talking, and just make sure they don't go one step too far.

That's what I saw last night now that I've had time to think about it. An adult watching a four year old call them stupid.

by vcalzone 2008-10-03 11:40AM | 0 recs
Palin avoided humiliation because of format

The format of this event allowed Palin to avoid humilation because there was no follow up questions. Katie Couric always got her on the follow up. Specifically, what newspapers do you read. Specifically, what Supreme court decision do you disagree with. Specifically, how does Alaska being close to Russia prepare you for being the President.

In this format, Palin could spout anything she wanted. She did not have to answer the questions. Many times while she talked, I found myself having no idea what she was talking about and what the question was.

Joe Biden, on the other hand, talked in complete sentences and had your complete attention with his ideas. He was very easy to follow and you learned things when he talked. I was very impressed by him.  I would go so far to say Joe is a better debater than McCain or Obama.

by erlin 2008-10-02 07:44PM | 0 recs
Sarah Palin coulda phoned debate answers in

This was the most sexist and contrived debate I have ever seen.  Evereything was set up to favor Sarah Palin.  The format, the moderator, and even the questions, all softballed so as not to demonstrate her ineptitude.  If Sarah Palin was a man, she would never have gotten a pass on it, and the Mainstream Media (MSM) would have been all over it.  We are still not past the point where a pretty smiling woman gets a pass by nature of her sex.  What nonsense this is!!!  First, to attend the debate, then stand there and announce that you aren't going to answer any of the questions...astonishing!!  It's like showing up at a sporting event, and announcing that you aren't going to play by the rules.  Haven't we seen this before, where an elected official refuses to play by the rules (ala Dick Cheney, Troopergate etc)?   Anyone hearing this should be really afraid of Sarah Palin.  Joe Biden clearly defined his responsibilities under the Constitution.  I doubt Sarah Palin has ever read it, and basically wants awesome and unchecked powers, just like Cheney.  Or maybe she has read it, since she seems to have read any and everything.  Be afraid, be very afraid!!!  Secondly, she never answered any of the questions, but just repeated talking points.  For Christ sakes, why have the debate at all?  Post debate, we have MSM males drooling about how well she did.  I am seeing lines like "Palin meets expectations".  Whose expectations?  Certainly not the American peoples.  We as a people thought that and expect that the VP candidate would be at least coherent and conversant; not an android repeating rehearsed words and talking points.  What debate were THEY (The MSM) watching?  If you're not going to answer any questions, Ms Palin coulda saved us the folksy lingo and repetitious talking points.  If fact, Ms Palin coulda just phoned it in!!!

by AndyatMyDD 2008-10-03 03:37AM | 0 recs

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