Jonathan's Debate Thread

Here we go...

  • McCain: It's "extreme" to include in statutes regulating abortion exceptions for the health of mothers. Who's the extreme one?
  • Again, McCain huffing and puffing in the background. Is it just me, or does he sound a little like James Gandolfini in the final season of "The Sopranos"?
  • Obama voted against Breyer? Um, I don't think he was in the Senate in 1994...
  • More from Ambinder (sorry to steal, Marc): "A Democrat familiar with the party's internal dials: when McCain brought up Ayers, 'the dials sank lower than any answer that we’ve seen in any of the now 4 debates.'" More: "Democrats pushing the theme of McCain's anger as being the lingering impression of this debate so far: One Dem: ' McCain facial's expressions tonight may rival Gore sighing.....'"

Previous updates below the fold...

  • That's at least the third exchange in a row in which Schieffer has allowed McCain to get the last word...
  • Question: Is McCain huffing and puffing -- literally, not figuratively -- during Obama's responses? I've heard a few weird noises, but maybe I'm just hearing things...
  • McCain's "I can't believe I'm losing to this guy" menality didn't work for Michael Dukakis in 1988, and it sure doesn't look like it's working tonight, either.
  • McCain talking about the first Gulf War doesn't really impart the idea that he's a candidate of the future rather than the candidate of the past.
  • Marc Ambinder gets it right: "Through this very uncomfortable discussion, Obama looks unflappable".
  • Note what this debate tactic by McCain is about: Trying to goad Obama to lose it -- which he isn't doing. It's not about getting a message out. It's a Hail Mary hoping to get Obama to have a major league gaffe. Didn't happen. Didn't work. McCain's going to have to cook up a new strategy, because he's got a long road to hoe to get back in this race.
  • Obama's associations: Warren Buffet, Paul Volcker, Joe Biden, Dick Lugar... Great retort to McCain.
  • Does McCain always get the last word in every exchange?
  • McCain really won't disavow his running mate's comments that Obama pals around with terrorists? Really?
  • Obama: The American people care less about our hurt feelings than they do about the future of the country. Bam.
  • Does McCain want some cheese with his whine? Can someone complain their way to the presidency?
  • Can McCain of today really shift back to McCain 2000? After eight years of kowtowing to George W. Bush? Judging by his declining favorability ratings, I'm not sure voters buy it, but who knows...
  • McCain does not look good sitting next to Obama on the HD screen -- a problem considering upwards of a third watching tonight's debate are doing so on HDTVs.
  • Don't be surprised to hear pundits say it's a good thing for McCain that the debate started off on the topic of taxes. They're wrong, however. Polling from Bob Schieffer's own CBS News (.pdf) shows that taxes are actually a winning issue for Obama, not McCain.
  • If McCain is going to try to deliver stories about taxes, it would probably behoove him not to ramble, but rather get to the point.
  • Wow. John McCain can say Barack Obama's name...

Tags: Debate, White House 2008 (all tags)

Comments

27 Comments

Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

"cheese with his whine"

McCain is similiar to Bush in alot of ways. Impetuous, imperial, with an unfathomable trust in his gut instincts that he never quite articulates.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-10-15 05:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

MCCAIN IS LOOSING IT!!!

by nzubechukwu 2008-10-15 05:33PM | 0 recs
McCain is stinking big time

by ann0nymous 2008-10-15 05:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

Oh Snap!  McCain just got told re: spending freeze.

by agpc 2008-10-15 05:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

Damn.

The first 20-25 minutes, I was honestly thinking McCain was having a really, really strong night - and was winning handily.

Then, he just IMPLODES!

Breath, John, Breath.

by zonk 2008-10-15 05:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

Before anyone asks, that was supposed to be 'daayyyammmm' as in I can't believe it, not dammit, as in I'm pissed McCain just pissed away his last shred of hope.

by zonk 2008-10-15 05:48PM | 0 recs
McCain doesn't look healthy.

My God McCain looks "erratic."  Poor guy.

by nzubechukwu 2008-10-15 05:49PM | 0 recs
Re: McCain doesn't look healthy.

He's blown right past erratic and trying to figure out where to U-Turn before he hits crazy.

I'm honest to goodness concerned about the man's health - he ought to just scream or something because I can feel the clenched teeth.

by zonk 2008-10-15 05:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

Wow.

Just wow.

I haven't seen a Presidential campaign end in a debate like this since Dukakis.

by zonk 2008-10-15 05:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

In what way?

by RandyMI 2008-10-15 05:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

There was a good question and a half when the John McCain temper was on full display.

He was in a frenzy - he wanted to use the 'personal attacks' but make it look like he only slid through a crack... so he tried to ram it all through.

He was incoherent at times, he was rolling his eyes, loud grunt-sighs, I could feel the clenched teeth through the teevee.

That was not a pretty McCain.

As I said above, I honestly did think McCain was winning handily for the first 20 minutes... he was congenial, engaging, and earnest.

He went completely off the tracks and become virtually unhinged (well, as unhinged as any federal level politician gets).

by zonk 2008-10-15 06:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

McCain tanks among women every time he attacks Obama.

by RandyMI 2008-10-15 05:56PM | 0 recs
OBAMA is HOOVER!!!!!!!!!!

Did McCain make ANY SENSE in that last section...

by WashStateBlue 2008-10-15 05:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

My only criticism of Obama is the snarky condescending smile he keeps flashing when McCain tells lies.  Don't let it bother you Obama, McCain is done.  He is still blinking morse code...

by agpc 2008-10-15 05:58PM | 0 recs
This so SAD.

My God, Mcain: "zero?"

by nzubechukwu 2008-10-15 06:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

ZERO???

by agpc 2008-10-15 06:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

AGPC, this was McCain's response to Obama's "fine" for not having health care.

by nzubechukwu 2008-10-15 06:06PM | 0 recs
So off the rocker...

McCain, "Joe, your rich congrats!"  WOW.

by nzubechukwu 2008-10-15 06:05PM | 0 recs
Gaffe ALERT

Gaffe Alert>  "Senator Obama voted against Justice Breyer."  Obama wasn't in the senate when Justice Breyer was nominated.

by nzubechukwu 2008-10-15 06:10PM | 0 recs
Now McCain is attacking mothers

I can't believe this.

It's like McCain got on the board first with an early TD, Obama went 4 and out, McCain tacked on a field goal....

....and then the 2nd quarter started.

Now it's 46-10.

by zonk 2008-10-15 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Now McCain is attacking mothers

In whose favor?

by RandyMI 2008-10-15 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Now McCain is attacking mothers

'Bama.

Roll Tide :-)

by zonk 2008-10-15 06:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

I maintain that the moment John McCain completely lost it was when Obama was able to answer back intelligently about Colombia. After that insane eyeroll, McCain just got more and more and more unhinged. It'd been happening for awhile, but that was the first time it broke free.

by vcalzone 2008-10-15 06:17PM | 0 recs
I think Obama was again ``eloquent'' on education

by ann0nymous 2008-10-15 06:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

I think you guys are off on this debate analysis. I didn't read anything on any site until they got to the closing statements. The summations I've seen here are too friendly to Obama, more of a leftover from previous debates than tonight's reality.

This was a much stronger effort by McCain. He'll be judged accordingly. Like zonk indicated, McCain was at his best in the first 20 or 25 minutes then leveled off but no doubt the opening was striking and the commentators will focus on it.

It was by far the best presidential debate of this cycle, no doubt due to McCain's desperation but also since he's apparently best suited to a seated debate. This seated debate was interesting because the chairs were considerably further apart than typical, allowing more confrontation.

Obama was on the defensive for most of the debate and did a good job defending his positions. I agree he seemed to smile too much when McCain was speaking, which didn't come across great.

Obama didn't need to win tonight's debate and I'm not sure he did. The polling likely will be close. I wouldn't be shocked if McCain were judged the winner. This site is demonstrating phony partisan handicapping by the 3 or 4 threads I've read so far, acting as if Obama won this handily. I sincerely hope you guys never actually wager. It was McCain's best night but Obama's race.

by Gary Kilbride 2008-10-15 06:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

Well, I suppose that depends if you have your thinking cap on or not.  As far as I'm concerned it frankly scared me more profoundly about McCain's world-view and Dr. Strangelove self-image than any event in the campaign to this point, and there have been plenty.

As far as the electorate is concerned, we'll see.  This ain't UFC, or is it?

by Shaun Appleby 2008-10-15 06:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Jonathan's Debate Thread

If you split the debate into 1/3 -- and then only watch the first 1/3 and the last 1/3  -- I suppose I'd give it McCain (though, I thought McCain's sneering "health of the mother" is gonna hurt him... bad.  I'd be willing to bet 95% of undecided women are pro-choice).

I think we both agree that McCain was extremely strong in the first 1/3.  I don't know that Obama was flat, but it most definitely wasn't his best segment... not a disaster, but McCain really was just good for that first 20-25 minutes.

I thought the last 1/3 was pretty evenly matched.  Obama was better than he opened, McCain not as good -- but not bad either.  I think I'd still score the last 1/3 for Obama, but only by a hair, and almost solely on the sneering 'health of the mother' comment... but add it to the first 1/3, and that's definitely a McCain win.

Except... there's that middle 1/3.

I thought that middle 1/3 was an utter disaster for McCain.  I thought that approached a near caricature of all the worst things about McCain 2008.... It was basically the "Tao of McCain 08".  The ugly sneering and the pitiful self-loathing.

Unlike many, I honestly do think McCain is a decent guy.  I honestly do think McCain doesn't really want to play this way.  BUT - he knows, KNOWS he's gotta go there to have any shot.  He cannot convince enough people to vote FOR him.  He has to make more people vote AGAINST Obama.  What we saw in the middle 1/3 was the worst of both worlds - the pissed McCain... pissed at himself... pissed at the media... pissed at Obama, even for 'making' him do it.

An aside -- I think his "no go on Wright" is basically McCain making a deal with himself, as in "If I don't go there, I haven't gone too far".  McCain is a gambler, but not a degenerate gambler.  That's what gamblers do -- you figure what you can afford to lose if every roll of the dice goes bad.  McCain at this point thinks, if he keeps that Wright chit in his pocket, he can walk out with some dignity.

by zonk 2008-10-15 06:55PM | 0 recs

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