Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

I heard James Boyce on Air America this morning suggesting that this was being considered, Tom Edsall at HuffPo has the story:

A panicked and cash-short Clinton campaign is seriously considering giving up on the Nevada caucuses and on the South Carolina primary in order to regroup and to save resources for the massive 19-state mega-primary on February 5. [...]

The Clinton campaign has raised over $100 million, but has "only" $15 to $20 million left. It faces donor reluctance to give more in the face of the Iowa defeat and the prospect of a second loss in New Hampshire today. Even worse, the campaign fears defections among those fundraisers who want to be with a winner and who might be easily persuaded to support Barack Obama. [...]

The decision whether to take on Obama in Nevada and South Carolina will likely be made within the next 12 hours.

Certainly, to look at the post-Iowa polls out of South Carolina, the state looks like a slam dunk for Obama, but Democratic strategist Steve McMahon explained why bailing on South Carolina would be suicide for Clinton on Hardball yesterday:

The African-American political establishment will go absolutely nuts. [The Clinton campaign] will be destroyed if they do that in my opinion. And she'll start to see her African-American support start to flip over to Barack Obama.

Nevada would appear to be an easier call, especially if the Culinary Workers Union decides to endorse Barack Obama tomorrow as Tim Russert and Edsall suggest they will, essentially ensuring an Obama victory.

Adopting an assertive Feb 5th strategy does seem to be the smartest move for Clinton at this point, looks like we'll know what they decide soon. Personally, I hope all candidates compete for Nevada as I'm hoping to get to Vegas for some events in advance of the caucus next weekend.

Tags: 2008 Presidential election, Barack Obama, Democratic Primary, Hillary Clinton, Nevada, South Carolina (all tags)

Comments

80 Comments

Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

The Feb. 5th strategy is idiotic.  She's probably behind Obama significantly in cash on hand today and will be substantially farther behind within days.  Every win he gets will increase the money advantage.

Clinton's plan completely goes out the window if Obama decides to lay down the money right now in a massive national ad buy, running up his national lead over her.  If he gets to define himself first before her negatives start running, she's finished.  All he has to do is remind voters of her desperation.

And imagine what it will be like for Hillary when the people making the attack responses for Obama are Al Gore, John Kerry and all the national politicians angling to be his Veep?  Not so much fun being the outsider with an insider message, is it Hillary?

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 09:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

This is why I do not contribute to big money campaigns. Why should we donate our hard earned money when we got professionals billing outrageous amounts? Hillary supposedly has been clamping down on consultant fees and still they ran through so much money? Campaigns have become out of hand. I do not believe in public financing. Maybe a cap on spending?

by Pravin 2008-01-08 09:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

It's unconstitutional to cap spending without public financing.  Buckley vs. Valeo.

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

With the right court, Buckley would be overturned.

by Vox Populi 2008-01-08 09:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail

More likely it would be overturned the other way with this court -- banning spending caps in all situations.

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

If other candidates can function on $20M total, I do not see why Hillary will give up on some states. They already have put down fixed costs with an infrastructure. So what if they cut downh on the incremental costs needed for future states. They have enough contacts and power to spread the word to a sufficient extent. I see this as news for the sake of news.

by Pravin 2008-01-08 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

Infrastructure means nothing once you leave IA and NH, the campaign is all about TV advertising and Hillary can't match Obama $ for $ anymore.  What people don't understand is that you don't get a chance to meet and greet and give 10 speeches a day in any state on these polyglot primary days, you fly in for one big airport event and hope to make the local news, most of your money goes into ads.

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 09:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

No one seems to understand this when they predict Obama replicating his turnout model in state after state.

by Steve M 2008-01-08 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV and SC?

That's a fair point.  But given how long it's been since most Democrats actually participated in a long, competitive primary season (1988), it's a leap to assume that they won't just jump on the bangwagon to get the race over with like they did in 2004 and in 1992 after Clinton won Illinois.  The best precedent for the kind of campaign Clinton plans to run is Ted Kennedy's in 1980 ... is that the model for how she wants to spend the rest of her career?

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 10:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV and SC?

I think 1992 is more operative than 2004. I think they want it to go on a little longer because there are lots of primary voters still undecided and you never know if a campaign will collapse.

by Ga6thDem 2008-01-08 10:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV and SC?

I'm an Obama supporter and I want this campaign to go on longer.  Here in Illinois, Obama's 2004 election was a complete joke.  His top Dem opponent collapsed after news that he was a wife batterer, then his top GOP opponent dropped out after news broke that he and his wife attended swingers clubs.  Beating Keyes means nothing and I want Obama to be battle tested.  Besides, since I'm usually on the side of the underdogs in these races, it would be hypocritical of me to now support the bandwagon effect.

But I don't think this is 1992 simply because Obama is a helluva lot stronger candidate than Paul Tsongas.

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV and SC?

You seem to be one of a very few Obama supporters who feel this way. Most seem to want him to cruise and not be tested. All that makes me very skeptical of his ability in a general election against the GOP.

by Ga6thDem 2008-01-08 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV and SC?


"Senator Obama has clearly sparked tremendous enthusiasm with his vision to fundamentally change the way business is done in Washington, but we're not taking anything for granted," said Burton. "There is much more work to do and we're going to continue fighting for every single vote."

Bill Burton - Obama campaign press spokesperson

Makes sense to me.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-08 12:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV and SC?

As we've previously discussed, most Obama supporters do not seem to be adhering to their candidate's prescription, not at all.  And the 24-hour period for irrational exuberance is well behind us.

The standard routine seems to be cheering and gloating about how it's all over, taunting of the rival candidates, etc.... and then when someone calls you on it, back we go to the standard talking point of "we're not taking anything for granted until the last vote is counted."  Yeah, yeah.

The common thread of this election is that no one seems to wear the inevitability mantle very gracefully.

by Steve M 2008-01-08 12:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV and SC?

No matter how briefly, apparently.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-08 05:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

At this point, the words "loser" and "Hillary" pretty much mean the same thing, right?

by mcdave 2008-01-08 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

Have you ever considered representing your candidate with class, or would that be too unlike you?

by Steve M 2008-01-08 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

She's losing every state...why go on?

by mcdave 2008-01-08 10:13AM | 0 recs
Edwards too
all of them, except Obama, LOSERS!!!!!
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:16AM | 0 recs
Every state?

One state has had a caucus.  One state is having it's primary.  That means there are 48 more states, Puerto Rico and Guam.  Just because she's lost now, doesn't mean she should be counted out.  That goes the same for Obama.  Just because he's won a state doesn't mean he's a shoe-in.

by fabooj 2008-01-08 10:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Every state?

Plus D.C. and Democrats Abroad, too.

by Brian Watkins 2008-01-08 12:13PM | 0 recs
Indeed
Edwards and loser too. Right?
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

UNDIES SIDED!

Funny name.

Yeah, Clinton won't bail at these.  I think she has an outside shot at SC anyway....

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-01-08 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

She has no shot at SC, but if she sits it out Edwards will have a shot there.  He's a distant third in the polls now but keep in mind that it's an open primary.  He won heavy independent and republican support in SC in 2004 based solely on running a "I was born here" campaign.  Yes, the Dem turnout is 45 percent black, but one white contender plus crossover means it's not a done deal.

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 09:54AM | 0 recs
If She Sits It Out...

She'll still beat Edwards. I'd bet:

Obama 70
Clinton 20
Edwards 10

by HatchInBrooklyn 2008-01-08 10:02AM | 0 recs
A shot at what?
Finishing second over Richardson? sheesh.
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV

Very true. It could be part of the strategy to hand that state to Edwards. No doubt her pulling out would definitely help him more than Obama.

by Ga6thDem 2008-01-08 10:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

Ann Lewis denied is on MSNBC.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-01-08 09:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail

I can't believe how many leaks are coming out of the Clinton campaign ... people aren't making these things up out of thin air, Clinton staffers BY NAME are suggesting she quit the race or adopt one strategy or another.  My guess is the official campaign position as of today is deny everything, but who knows what the truth is.

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 09:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail

The fact that it's being suggested by some doesn't mean it's being considered by those who matter. You may be right about the official position, though.

My guess is there's no way she quits SC, even if she is considering it Bill will talk her out of it.

by Nathan Empsall 2008-01-08 10:03AM | 0 recs
Wait...

Clinton's African-American support "might" start to flip to Obama? Aren't we already seeing that happen? Isn't that going to happen regardless of whether or not she fights in South Carolina? The truly suicidal strategy would be for the Clintons to keep up the virulent anti-Obama rhetoric after he becomes the prohibitive favorite from the Democratic nomination tonight. Bill's practically writing anti-Obama attack ads for the GOP at every damn stump speech.

by HatchInBrooklyn 2008-01-08 10:00AM | 0 recs
Skipping Nevada makes sense
once the CWA endorses Obama. And I think Edwards should see Nevada as his one on one shot with Obama - the one he has been waiting for. Show us what you got in Nevada Edwards. He has not within shouting distance in South Carolina. He could make a stand in Nevada. One on one with Obama.
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:01AM | 0 recs
will be tough to compete

in NV with Culinary backing Obama. But I want JRE to stay and fight in every state. Getting his message out to voters has value, even if he doesn't win these states. Plus, there is always the chance that damaging information about Obama will emerge in the coming weeks.

by desmoinesdem 2008-01-08 10:09AM | 0 recs
But but but . . .
the one on one he is pining for ?????
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:17AM | 0 recs
well, yes, obviously

I want Edwards to fight for every state, including NV. It will be an uphill battle, but there should be a debate about whether Obama's approach would bring the kind of change we really need.

by desmoinesdem 2008-01-08 10:20AM | 0 recs
There SHOULD HAVE BEEN such a debate
Edwards decided NOT to have that debate in New Hampshire. And yes I am still talking about the debate. Sorry, des moines, your candidate blew it and blew it on a criticial issue. The nomination fight is over tonight, in no small part because of your candidate's decision to NOT take on Obama on this question.
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:40AM | 0 recs
Agreed: Game On, Culinary Should Not Endorse Obama

Nevada is Edwards immediate target of opportunity.  It should be "game on" in Nevada.  

I would be greatly disappointed if Culinary endorses Obama, and not John Edwards.  

Culinary should go with John Edwards because it is Edwards, not Obama, who will force the party to recognize labor at the convention. Edwards will either win the nomination, or choose the nominee, as between Clinton and Obama.  Clinton is going to rack up a lot of delegates on February 5, as will Obama, and Edwards, regardless of the media blackout/character assassinations of him. Edwards has already made it clear that he is staying in all the way to the convention.  There will be no dropping out.  

Look, an Obama administration will give labor one seat at his table,  Other seats will include anti-labor coalitions (hey, part of a unified America), the Republican party (bipartisanship), big business (part of a unified America), and rabid free traders (part of a unified America).  Does labor want this?  If so, they are strangely suicidal.  

The only reason why Culinary might consider endorsing Obama, I suppose, would be for small, selfish, parochial reasons, and that would be a shame. (He would throw them, in particular, a bone at a later date?)  If they endorsed Obama, they would be letting down their brothers and sisters in other unions.  Endorsing a candidate who wants to receive a mandate for "bipartisanship" with Republicans (who love unions?) would be sad and foolish.  (I can only hope that Tim Russert will end up with egg on his face,)

by Demo37 2008-01-08 10:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

Well, I'm not sure competing in NV makes much sense if this endorsement for Obama happens.  As far as SC goes, I suspect she will compete there  but will perhaps allocate less funds as part of that effort as she preps for the 19 Feb 5 contests.  

I really would be curios to know how each of the campaigns are doing in terms of COH.  These "Clinton is low on $" stories are good, from my perspective, but $20 million is still plenty.  Besides, by all accounts Obama spent more on Iowa than Hillary -- so unless he's seen an influx of money lately he could be running low as well.  

by HSTruman 2008-01-08 10:02AM | 0 recs
Don't you think Edwards should fight in Nevada?
Get that one on one campaign he is pining for?
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:05AM | 0 recs
Edwards

Big Tent ... why are you so obsessed with Edwards?  The guy's finished, which I guess is your point, but does it have to become your one trick?

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 10:11AM | 0 recs
My new one trick
Cuz gawd knows I have never EVER written about anything else. It is not like I wrote a diary today about something else, or that I have written about any number of things for 3 years. Yep, that's me, a one trick pony. But I thought folks like you were telling me Edwards was pining for his one on one chance with Obama? Is that not true anymore?
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:19AM | 0 recs
Re: My new one trick

Oh yeah, that's right, the diary post about how dumb it is for Democrats to be against the Iraq War.  Why again are you still in this party?

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 10:44AM | 0 recs
Are you a liar too?
That is a loie from you. I have been for getting out of Iraq now forwever but especially this year. Man, you are jsut a fucking liar now. What a piece of shit you are.
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:48AM | 0 recs
Goggle Out of Iraq Blogger Caucus
You fucking piece of shit liar.
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:50AM | 0 recs
To prove you to be a liar
this link:
A group of us started organizing The Out Of Iraq Bloggers Caucus Blogroll over at TalkLeft awhile back, based on Big Tent Democrat's idea of the Out Of Iraq Bloggers Caucus. The Blogroll is a reciprocal link list of "Out Of Iraq Bloggers" that will be posted separately from other blogrolls and displayed on each member blog to identify them as part of the Out Of Iraq Bloggers Caucus (as conceived by Armando Llorens aka Big Tent Democrat) to help increase traffic to all of the member blogs and get the message out as widely as possible that the Iraq Debacle must be ended as soon as possible, and that there should be no more bills passed funding it beyond an established date certain for withdrawal.
You fucking asshole. BTW, I wrote about a piece of crap NYTimes article today.
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:54AM | 0 recs
And if you think I am overreacting
thaqt would be evidence of the fact that you really do not give a shit about getting us out of Iraq. Cuz if you did, you weould know that your lie about me runs counter to everything I have ever written. Do I expect you to apologize? Fuck no. That would mean you are decent person. I see no evidence of that.
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 11:06AM | 0 recs
Another point
Were you the guy who was the Edwards supporter in 2004, despite Edwards having cosponsored the Iraq War Resolution? You see, I was a Clark supporter because he opposed the war. Why are you a Democrat Dan? Is that an appropriate question to ask you? But perhaps you are not the person I am thinking of.
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 11:17AM | 0 recs
No Idea

Honestly, I don't know enough about the State or what its caucus will look like to answer that question.  For Edwards especially, scarcity of resources is going to be a real issue.  Given that, I tend to think it probably doesn't make much sense for him to go "all in" in Nevada.  But that's nothing more than a hunch.  

by HSTruman 2008-01-08 10:33AM | 0 recs
Nevada Is Wide Open

Going "all in" in Nevada is not that difficult. It has only two television markets:  Las Vegas and Reno/Carson City. However, whether the competitors choose to saturate with TV commercials is an open question.  You have to decide whether to use an open strategy (encourage as many people to vote as possible) or a closed strategy (quietly encourage only your people to turn out).  

My sources are telling me that, up to this point, the campaigns have essentially been using a closed strategy.  As such, you do not see signs everywhere in Vegas and Reno...as you did in the cities and towns of Iowa.  In the days ahead, we will find out soon enough what strategy Obama, Edwards and Clinton are going to use: open or closed?  

Of course, in the Nevada caucuses, the real trouble has always been finding voters who will actually vote in the caucus.  (The turnout is projected to be 10%.)  Past caucuses have experienced turnouts as low as 1-5% of eligible voters!  It is very hard to motivate people in Nevada to be "political" enough to sit through an entire caucus.

Edwards volunteers are descending on the state as we speak. It should get very interesting.  

by Demo37 2008-01-08 11:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Nevada Is Wide Open

I can think of about 8000 reasons for Edwards to make a huge play for Nevada and about none for him to keep his powder dry.  Which state presents a better opportunity for him?

by Steve M 2008-01-08 11:47AM | 0 recs
Spending

Obama spent more on ads, but are you sure he spent more overall? I'll bet Hillary has to rely more on paid staff than he does since his volunteer base is stronger, and I'm sure the Hillacopter wasn't cheap.

by HatchInBrooklyn 2008-01-08 10:10AM | 0 recs
Re:

Yes, the reports were that Clinton spent 7 million while Obama spent 9 million.

by Ga6thDem 2008-01-08 10:24AM | 0 recs
Obama spent $9 million on tv alone

in Iowa. On top of that he had hundreds of paid staffers and at least 40 field offices. The total must have been a lot more.

by desmoinesdem 2008-01-08 10:27AM | 0 recs
New York

In the New York field office there are at least 6 pretty much full-time people. Exactly one of them is paid. And I'll bet Clinton is less thrifty about staff salaries and day-to-day expenses. That stuff ads up, too. Just my two cents.

by HatchInBrooklyn 2008-01-08 10:41AM | 0 recs
my guess

$25 to $30 million for everything

by mboehm 2008-01-08 11:38AM | 0 recs
No Nevada campaigning?

That will look awful, especially given the fact of the Dem debate in Las Vegas a week from now:
http://www.nvdems.com/go/homepage-rotate nevada-to-host-democratic-presidential- debate-january-15th

Will she ignore the state, fly in for the debate, and then bail again?

Or will she skip the debate, giving the impression on stage that she's dropped out. (No, she won't skip.)

She has no good options.

by along 2008-01-08 10:10AM | 0 recs
Edsall is Clueless About Clinton

Edsall knows absolutely nothing about what's going on in the Clinton camp.

by BigBoyBlue 2008-01-08 10:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail

Yes, but shouldn't that apply to Clinton and her insults of Obama too?  If she supports the formation of a 527 committee called Anyone But Obama, do you think we should gleefully support her election should she pull this one out?

I think Obama would gladly take a no-more-negatives pledge today.

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 10:13AM | 0 recs
Edwards took a no negatives on Obama pledge
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-08 10:20AM | 0 recs
I never quite think about the big donors

Today, I actually read an article about Hollywood celebrities and politics.

ON desks all over Hollywood, there's a note this morning waiting to be sent:

Memo to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton: We think you're aces. Really. And we love your husband. But we're running off with Sen. Barack Obama. Hope you understand. It's all about being part of history. We'll do lunch after the inauguration.

The article went on about how celebrities who were definitely in the Clinton camp are now wavering.  Along with their "resolve" goes their pocketbooks.

"It is not a question of loyalty; Barack is simply too close to making history for Hollywood not to be part of it," Quintana said. "For most of us, Hillary was our first choice, but she has come up short. Barack has become a movement."

I get that they need money to be able to continue on.  I get that need big money.  Last week, when news reports were focusing on the Clinton campaign phone calls to donors, I pretty much ignored it.  Who cares?  Right?  Now, that I have thought about it, this article in the LA Times, kind of puts another nail in her money coffin.  These people aren't exactly known for being mavericks.  If you're not part of a crowd, an 'in-crowd', you're over.  Now I'm very interested in seeing what the Westside looks like, at least as far as yard signs are concerned.

by fabooj 2008-01-08 10:15AM | 0 recs
I have no respect for these people

They signed on with HRC when they thought she was winning. Now they are on the Obama bandwagon.

This is like the high school principal I read about in Iowa, who was on the fence between HRC and Obama until Obama called his cell phone. It's pathetic.

Pick a candidate for principled reasons. I have more respect for Viggo Mortensen, who at least has substantive reasons he's supporting Kucinich.

by desmoinesdem 2008-01-08 10:24AM | 0 recs
Re: I have no respect for these people

Well, I mean, I'm not sure what you expect from these Hollywood types.  Half of them are Scientologists.  They're not exactly providing the intellectual underpinnings for our movement.

by Steve M 2008-01-08 10:26AM | 0 recs
No one's asking for your respect

Until last year, I lived amongst these people and that was pain enough for me.  My point was that they have the money, and in particular, they have the money to help (or hinder) here in CA.  I hadn't thought about that.  I've worked at an ad firm, so I understand that what your money buys in CA is going to go farther in NE or KY.  She...hell, all candidates really do need these Hollywood donors.  When an article like this hits the LA Times, it will be circulated and reinforced to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if some other industry rag starts printing the same stuff in the next few weeks.  That will affect just how much money she can squeeze out of Hollywood.

If I were driving her campaign, I would have focused on RE developers and the tech sector for money, so that if the Sheep of Hollywood decide to back someone else, she's got it in hand.

by fabooj 2008-01-08 10:40AM | 0 recs
Not Just Hollywood

People on here seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about how political fundraising works. It's not just "the sheep of Hollywood" who decide to back the person that's expected to win. Anyone who wants to see a Democrat in the White House and is wealthy enough to give away $2300 or $4600 is going to start giving money to the person who wins Iowa and New Hampshire, period. That includes RE developers and the tech sector.

by HatchInBrooklyn 2008-01-08 10:46AM | 0 recs
that is true for the most part

Most people with money want to be on board with the front-runner.

There are also people who stretch to max out to the candidate of their choice, but keep their wallets closed to others, but that's a smaller group.

by desmoinesdem 2008-01-08 10:55AM | 0 recs
Right, But...

Once there is a prohibitive frontrunner for the nomination, that group virtually disappears as far as I know. Who was still giving big checks to Dean, Clark, or Edwards after New Hampshire in 2004? What wealthy donor who wants to see a Democrat in the White House is going to help Clinton keep calling the probably Democratic nominee unelectable and too dangerously inexperienced to be President?

by HatchInBrooklyn 2008-01-08 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

I agree with you completely that non-Hillary supporters have been unfair in their treatment of Hillary...but her supporters have been as virulent, inane, and petty. It takes respect to get respect and it hasn't been shown by either side in this argument.

As for 1/3 of the Democratic party sitting out due to this treatment...it won't happen. This is THEIR chance to undo the damage the Bush adiministration has done too and they aren't going to sit it out because they feel slighted... in fact let me go one step further- any who do sit it out because they feel slighted aren't Democrats anyway and the Republicans can have them as far as I am concerned.

by JDF 2008-01-08 10:18AM | 0 recs
how do you skip primaries and caucuses...

...and still think that the public and the press will take you seriously?

I don't get how that makes you more competitive and more electable.

by d 2008-01-08 10:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

The problem for her is that despite all those gaudy poll #s, she doesn't have that much of an actual ground-level organization here in NV.

She has a lot of electeds backing her but relatively few who have any grassroots supporters that could help at the precinct level.

Mostly she has the support of a lot of older women who are enthusiastic but won't make good soldiers at the precinct caucuses. Her big precinct captain training here a few weeks ago, widely reported on in the press, was really a pep rally for 600 supporters and not a strategy training. IN short, she has been running a primary style campaign here rather than a caucus campaign.

She's only this week getting ground reinforcements from NOW; sthe state AFSCME has not been mobilizing for her, and we don't have AFT here, we have an NEA affiliate that has stayed neutral.

Obviously Obama (whose ground game here has been overrated in the press) will become the overwhelming favorite once he picks up the Culinary endorsement later this week. And he does have some good, grass-roots based supporters among his top leaders (Horsford, Leslie) and they have been canvassing diligently (mostly with out of state volunteers).

But I hope that I'm not just drinking my own side's kool-aid that Edwards has done the best to actually organize at the precinct level, in hopes of a big wave after Iowa (including the coveted union endorsements we now won't get). He's bringing in a large part of his Iowa staff and the support of the volunteer base of union members, enviro activists and other progressives has not flagged (many feel energized by the demise of the Clinton machine).

I still think Edwards, and even Richardson, are in better shape to pick up soft support if Clinton does't campaign hard here but her allies do attack Obama in the media, as Edsall also reports.

I think that combination of a non-campaign on the ground and a negative campaign in the air could actually push her down to third or even fourth here, in a state that she was once picked to win going away.

by desmoulins 2008-01-08 10:22AM | 0 recs
that is interesting

I am disappointed in Culinary. I would have hoped that they would at least stay neutral. It seems pretty obvious that Obama will go against unions if he stands to gain politically from doing so.

by desmoinesdem 2008-01-08 10:26AM | 0 recs
Re: that is interesting

Explain to me how that's "obvious."  The only support for Obama's purpoted "anti-union" views that i hear are his statements about 527 groups attacking him.  Respectfully, speaking out against 527 groups does not constitute an attack on unions.      

by HSTruman 2008-01-08 10:30AM | 0 recs
well, he decided that

getting a few more people to hear Oprah was more important than supporting the organized labor movement. He could have booked a smaller arena, but he saw political advantage in booking the arena that had a picket line in front of it.

It's similar to the McClurkin episode. If Obama sees political advantage in screwing over a progressive interest group, he will choose the Barack Obama movement over solidarity with progressives every time.

by desmoinesdem 2008-01-08 10:54AM | 0 recs
Re: well, he decided that

Well, I think you're just wrong about the Oprah speech.  He negotiated with the Union, which agreed to allow the speech to go forward.  I fail to see how explicitly asking for union approval and only moving forward after it's given constitutes anti-union action.  

by HSTruman 2008-01-08 11:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

A few taunts on a website isn't going to do anything to depress Clinton's supporters from coming out...

by mcdave 2008-01-08 10:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

The funny thing about this thread ... and basically every thread on MyDD ... is that there are all these heated discussions about three candidates who have basically no major policy differences.  This isn't the 68 race where Democrats fought brutally over Vietnam or 80 where Kennedy tried to use New Deal muscle to take down a sitting President.  This is a dispute about style and personality.

Everyone needs to relax.  Given the massive Dem turnout we're seeing, we're 10 months away from a landslide Democratic election.  A year from now, none of us will give a crap which one we chose.

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 11:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

The concern isn't policy- it's ability to implement, build and sustain. It's about not just what happens this year, but for those of us old enough, what happen 5 years from now when youve forgotten this battle.

by bruh21 2008-01-08 11:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

Yeah but it's all theoretical.  We really have no way of knowing whether Hillary's experience or Obama's charisma will end up the more important factor, it's a guessing game.  We guessed in 2004 that John Kerry's military record would make him immune to attacks on his patriotism.  Didn't work out so well. We took a chance in 1992 that Bill Clinton's policy depth and charisma would override his character issues ... that was a good bet.  Jimmy Carter was a huge gamble in 1976 ... Walter Mondale a safe one in 1984.  It's all a crapshoot.

What I think is ridiculous is the way objectivity goes out the window ... Obama supporters (and I'm one of them) have to admit that his rise is meteoric and therefore unsettingly.  Clinton supporters have to admit that her complete lack of charisma in this campaign raises questions about her ability to rally support for whatever ideas she might have or to attract independents and wayward Republicans.  Edwards supporters (and I was a big one in 2004) I hope have enough objectivity to be a bit concerned about the various guises his runs for the President have taken on ... who is the authentic John Edwards?

This isn't to trash the candidates, just to say that yes, of course, they all have flaws.  But this is all a matter of taste more than judgment.  

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 11:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton To Bail on NV & SC?

I have concerns over the candidates, but ironically not the ones you mention. I am not worried about how fast Obama rose. i worry about his strategy and style of leadership. with Edwards my concerns aren't his views- despite what you say they are mostly consistent as an evolution. my concern with him is that he fails to appreciate the need to push the media narrative, not just his message. As for Clinton I feel her battles of the past hurt her alot, and it was only yesterday she started to finaly at last show us she's human.

by bruh21 2008-01-08 11:51AM | 0 recs
Obama's style

>>i worry about his strategy and style of leadership

Well, this is something that Obama needs to be pressed on.  Because, as a goal and first-level philosophy, I'm supportive of his effort.  I don't think Obama is saying let's make a deal with the Washington we have.  I think he's saying let's talk about a new day and try to build a big winning coalition now ... then govern with that coalition.  Because if we run and win the red/blue race, we still won't have the support we need to get anything done.  I don't think he's talking Broderism, I think he's talking realignment that shifts the political power in this country from people on the back end of life to people on the front end of life.

The question I have for Obama is ... what do you do when that fails?  What if the cynics are right and the hyper-partisanship, and elder-domination of American politics continues?  How do you get anything done?  I'm concerned that Obama's only fallback in that case would be Broderism.

But to be fair, how do we know Clinton will do more than the weak school uniforms and V-Chip agenda of her husband's administration?  No one has come up with a tested plan to put popular progressive reforms into action, but at least Obama is willing to try something new that starts with the electorate.

by Dan Conley 2008-01-08 12:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's style

I dont have an answer- what I like is that you are asking the questions and answering my questions without acting like I am crazy to ask it. If more people, voters were like that we would at least push the candidates to be better, and then whoever won would do so coming into office with a) more a mandate and b) more tested for being able to answer exactly the questions you asked. Instead politics is trivialized into vapor

by bruh21 2008-01-08 04:34PM | 0 recs

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