Obama the Frontrunner

by Jerome Armstrong, Sun Jan 06, 2008 at 01:35:54 PM EST

I've long held out to not supporting a candidate, because I'd like to see a spirited contest that scrutinizes the candidate. Now that Obama is the perceived frontrunner, every move of his is game. On that front, it looks like Obama has a problem with having a lobbyist as his co-chair in New Hampshire. After Clinton mentioned it in the debate, and Obama denied it:

One of Barack Obama's four New Hampshire co-chairs, who is also one of the state's most prominent lobbyists, entered the conversation of the Democratic presidential race last night with this phrase from Hillary Clinton at the debate:"When it comes to lobbyists, you know that Senator Obama's chair in New Hampshire is a lobbyist. He lobbies for the drug companies.""Not true," said Obama. But it is true.

According to the AP, the Obama campaign has responded with saying they've drawn the line in the sand that doesn't mean state lobbyist, only federal lobbyist:

Obama aides found themselves on the defensive after Clinton said during Saturday's debate that Obama's New Hampshire campaign co-chairman, Jim Demers, is a lobbyist whose clients include pharmaceutical companies. The Clinton campaign kept up the criticism Sunday morning in a teleconference call with reporters, noting that Obama has repeatedly said he does not take money from federal lobbyists or political action committees.

Obama communications director Robert Gibbs said Demers is a state lobbyist and does not do business involving federal legislation or regulation. He said the campaign has drawn a distinction between lobbyists who are registered to work at the state level and those who lobby the federal government.

"A ban on lobbying money and PACs is far from perfect," Gibbs said. "There is a difference between a college football player and professional football player," he added.

During the debate, while Clinton referred to Demers, the camera caught Obama shaking his head, saying "not so."

"He was shaking his head because her implication was that it violated our lobbyist pledge and his role quite clearly does not," Obama spokesman Bill Burton said.

Though there might be some sort of tiered hypocrisy at work, there is consistency, in that Obama hasn't taken federal PAC and lobbyist money on this campaign (but has in multiple past campaigns), and he still does take money from state based lobbyists. So maybe that gives cover to Obama's Jim Demers, who is registered to lobby for Pfizer and PhRMA?

But then there's the problem in South Carolina, where Obama's co-chair, Jim Hodges, is also a lobbyist, with this interesting update:

* UPDATE * NBC's Domenico Montanaro adds that Hodges is, in fact, a registered federal lobbyist, a search of the Senate Office of Public Records Lobbying Disclosure Act Database shows. He registered as such on June 1, 2007.

I'm guessing Hodges is getting ready for some 2008 DC business.

Tags: 2008, Barack Obama (all tags)

Comments

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Too late

ESPECIALLY with Edwards carrying Obama's water.

I hope Edwards finishes 4th.

HE is now closer to 4th than to second.

by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-06 01:40PM | 0 recs

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Re: Too late

lol go cry a river seriously now. I've seen your comments litered over every single thread.

by KainIIIC 2008-01-06 01:57PM | 0 recs

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Cry me a river?

Are you saying I am wrong?

by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-06 02:25PM | 0 recs

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Re: Cry me a river?

You're definitely crying for sure.

It's pretty obvious that Edwards was between a rock and a hard place, and yes he definitely made plenty of mistakes along the way (haircut, not engaging the youth enough, writing off the media).

This strategy is actually very interesting; Edwards took his 2nd place results, and instead of attacking Obama and helping out Clinton recover and win her coronation, he's instead continually tripping Clinton to gain all the support she bleads. If Rasmussen is to be even to believed, there's 2 things: First, Edwards is benefitting from Clinton's drop, not Obama (other than in New Hampshire), and although I don't think its this close yet, it says Edwards is 2 points within Obama, and that Edwards has gained +6 since Iowa, and +1 for Obama. This hardly means that even if he wins New Hampshire, that he'll win Nevada - it's very possible that on caucus morning, Edwards will drive the most supporters to the polls - or at the very least, finish second to Hillary (I do NOT think that Obama will win here, and likely not even 2nd). I think if this dynamic continues, what you see here will be additional Edwards second place finishes in BOTH South Carolina (to Obama, on the backs of blacks) AND Florida(to Hillary, on the backs of hispanics), which will definitely muddy up expectations for Super-Duper Tuesday.
The rest of February states aren't bad states at all of Edwards, and it only gets better for him in March + May (when North Carolina is). For Edwards, it's a fight 'til the convention.

by KainIIIC 2008-01-06 05:20PM | 0 recs

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Re: Too late

The Obama-bashers continue to try to nit pick and find some angle to undermine Obama.

What you don't seem to understand is that the very minor flaws and inconsistencies you find are not going to undermine Obama's basic appeal to most voters. Your attacks, distortions, and smears are not "sticking" because Obama has not claimed "perfection."

He has made ethics reform and campaign finace reform one of the centerpieces of his entire career in elective office. He has worked to make the system less corrupt and more transparent. Your attempts to trumpet avery minor inconsistency do not undermine the salience of his efforts to improve the system. The voters are willing to forgive minor inconsistencies because they trust Obama's basic sincerity.

The voters don't trust much of anything about HRC.

by upper left 2008-01-06 04:09PM | 0 recs

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Oh Please

If Clinton had a lobbyist running her NH campaign, you'd be screaming about what a corporate sellout she is. And if she then lied about it in the middle of a debate? She's be destroyed by every commentator from Maine to California. Clinton the liar. Clinton the triangulator.

If it's not big deal then why did he lie about it? And why don't you care he lied?

I'm not saying that should make you drop your support. What I'm saying is that Obama is a politician and if his supporters keep letting him off the hook and holding him to a lower standard, he's going to fail them. The only way to get a politician to do what needs to be done is to hold their feet to the fire - constantly. The more you excuse, the more they will do. That's not just Obama, that's every politician.

The great thing about a primary is that it's a chance to make our candidates better and stronger before November. A nominee with registered lobbyists running his campaigns is weaker than a nominee where that's not true. But you know what? There's a way to make that not true even if Obama's the nominee and that's to demand he change it. Not excuse it or minimize it.

Unless you think it's a good omen for an Obama Administration that people with important positions in the Obama campaign are registering as lobbyists. Personally, I doubt this guy registered because he has my best interest at heart. And if he gets away with it, I doubt he'll be the last.

by BDB 2008-01-06 04:42PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Well, Obama is going to win NH by double digits.

He'll be 4-0 in the primaries and there will be pressure for HRC to stand down.

by Louverture 2008-01-06 01:44PM | 0 recs

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If Edwards has his way

Obanma will win by 30 points.

And Riochardson will finsih third. Edwards seems headed to 4th now.

by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-06 01:45PM | 0 recs

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Re: If Edwards has his way

Right, Richardson takes 3rd. Just once this cycle, I'd think you'd want to predict something correctly. ;-)

by Rob in Vermont 2008-01-06 02:31PM | 0 recs

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Re: If Edwards has his way

I nailed the Iowa caucus you doofus.

by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-07 03:24AM | 0 recs

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Re: If Edwards has his way

do you still think, given the double digit polls taken before the debate,that edwards could have slowed the obama mo?

by aiko 2008-01-06 02:39PM | 0 recs

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Um

He trail Hillary by double digits. Your logic?

by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-07 03:25AM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Too bad this won't get any traction.

I don't even think that most people give a damn about his no federal lobbyist pledge.

He's operating on an entirely different level.

It's too late to stop him.

He's up anywhere b/w 10-12 point in NH--he will win there.

And HRC will have a hard time roughing Obama up heading into SC--black folks are already pissed at her campaign.

Oh yeah, and the culinary workers out in NV are set to endorse on Wed.

Also, when it come to matters or integrity or character HRC will ALWAYS lose to Obama---no matter what.

The game has changed.

She's done.

The Clinton magic is gone.

by Louverture 2008-01-06 01:48PM | 0 recs

4a2fab88-ed3b-47a4-8f14-3ec8a24504ac_normal

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

I think you could be right about this not gaining attraction, but I also think you forgot the fact that even despite granting all that to Obama, which I have, she'll still come out on top in MI & FL, and lead in delegates going into Feb 5th, where it's Democrats, not Independents, that will decide the nomination.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-01-06 01:50PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

And Obama is equal to her or besting her among Dems.

Obama expands the universe for voters---and reels them in.

Clinton does not.

Like Obama said, the same 'ol Washington Textbook campaigns just won't do.

Clinton is learning this the hard way.

The game has changed.

by Louverture 2008-01-06 01:54PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

For the bazillionth time, there are no delegates at stake in Florida and Michigan, and all of the campaigns have signed pledges not to campaign there. Obama and Edwards aren't even on the ballot in Michigan.

So, no she won't have any delegates from those states going into February 5th. If you think there's even a half a chance in hell that the Democratic Party will allow those primaries to determine the nomination, then you have completely lost your marbles. The Democratic Party could not survive cheating the first black candidate to win the nomination fair and square out of his rightful chance.

by dmc2 2008-01-06 02:05PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

AND as has been POINTED out to you it doesn't matter if you think Dean will allow the seating of the delegates. Its how the MEDIA covers the primaries. Michigan will get very little play with all those people out, and I will bet that CNN doesn't add them to their delegate count. Florida is another story, but I think you are dead wrong to believe Florida and Nevada won't tighten given events in Iowa and NH and SC. Given the right momentum, Clinton could lose Florida or at least win by a small margin and that will NOT be enough to save her.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-06 02:31PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

I'll count Michigan. But I think a FL win by Clinton would be transformational to the narrative.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-01-06 02:45PM | 0 recs

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2000?

Would a Florida win by Clinton re-ignite electability issues regarding Obama? I wonder how scarred Dems are by 2000. Certainly the MSM's story is that Democrats have to have Florida to win (not necessarily true, but when did that stop them)?

The real question is whether her leads in Feb. 5th states can withstand a string of losses. My guess, assuming she doesn't pull it out in NH, is that we'll be hearing a couple of things from the Clinton campaign:

1) Bill didn't win any primary until Super Tuesday;

She was double-teamed in NH and still managed to come in second. For all the talk of her candidacy being over, she's one of two still standing in what started out as a 7-8 person race;
It's only two states and it's ridiculous to let them decide the Democratic nominee, she's in this until Feb. 5th;
Votes among registered democrats have been about equal. Right now even with Obama's ten-point lead, he still trails Clinton among Democrats in NH. He's not likely to beat her by a lot among Dems, maybe not at all. So he'll be looking at a one-point Iowa win among Dems. and maybe a loss among Dem voters in NH;
Can Obama turn out the youth vote when he hasn't had months to focus on one state with a relatively small population? Turning them out in Iowa and NH is one thing. Turning them out in California is something else.

I think the Clinton folks have to treat NH as the beginning of a process of turning around her campaign with the goal being Florida, maybe Nevada, and Super Tuesday wins. Five days is not enough time to change the narrative. But I think we're beginning to see how she's going to run - that she has fought for and caused change; that he's all talk. Unfortunately for her, talk usually wins elections (fortunately for Democrats, Obama has the capacity to be more than talk).

Obviously a NH loss to Obama is bad for Clinton. And every win Obama has moves him closer to the nomination and her further from it. But I don't think we'll know for sure who the nominee is until after Feb. 5th. Nor should we, it won't be until then that most of America has voted.

by BDB 2008-01-06 04:56PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Not to be too dismissive, but I will anyway.

Counting delegates is pointless.

It's strange - given that you'd think the modern media would have made it MORE meaningful than it was back in the days of brokered conventions.

But let's all be honest - it's the truth.

Not since 70s gave us the fairly radical selection changes, not since the growth of the electronic media gave us 'narratives' - have we had to 'count' delegates. It's momentum, it's been momentum for past 8 cycles.

Call it wrong, say it's an awful way to pick a candidate... or - you can be happy that, for a change, the guy with charisma overflow happens to be a Democrat (that's what I'm going with).

Counting delegates is a waste of time.

I'm not saying HRC or Edwards should drop out - quite the contrary - a contested race is good for everyone, especially the voters.

We're going to be all but sure of the nominee before the 2/5 primaries.

by zonk 2008-01-06 03:51PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

I'll just call it that I think that is going to change this time around, and I think the internet is going to help change it.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-01-06 05:40PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Not seeing it.

Perhaps we just see the internet fundamentally different: I take it you see the internet as the great wildcard in the deck, the 'chaotisizer', that flips outcomes and turns momemntum.

I see the opposite- rather than a destroyer or reshaper of the trends, the internet has become a reinforcer of them.

I don't know why, and don't take offense at it, but I'm thinking of Ed Norton in Rounders when he and Matt Damon get up from the table in AC -- the futility of counting delegates "Keep grinding out that rent money, it's noble work you're doing". Course - Worm gets disappeared by the end of the film... but then Obama's probably Matt Damon in that little film, so may it works out OK!

by zonk 2008-01-06 06:27PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Yeah, who cares if Obama lies to voters as long as he wins? Who cares if he entrenches negative right wing frames against democrats as long as he wins? Who cares if he leaves 15 million Americans without health insurance as long as he wins?

How quickly the washington outsiders because washington insiders

by world dictator 2008-01-06 02:26PM | 0 recs

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Gallup Obama up by 13

by parahammer 2008-01-06 01:50PM | 0 recs

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Obama 41, Clinton 28 in NH!!!!!

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/200 8/01/obama-up-by-13.html

by Louverture 2008-01-06 01:51PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama 41, Clinton 28 in NH!!!!!

Hot damn! If Edwards can't do it, I'll be forever grateful to Obama for taking Clinton down.

by Oregonian 2008-01-06 02:17PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Hillary is a loser and should drop out of the race. She shouldn't put her personal ambitions (of becoming President) above the unity of the democratic party!

HILLARY SHOULD QUIT NOW !

by win 2008-01-06 01:51PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Let's try and stay magnanimous about this, we're all in it together.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 01:53PM | 0 recs

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Um

Who should stay in?

by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-06 01:53PM | 0 recs

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believe me

clintons not getting out till the last dog dies.

i had a meeting today - that discussed plannng for the pa primary and thats in april!

its about delegate count - not winning over the village and their idiots.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:01PM | 0 recs

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Re: believe me

If Obama takes a majority of the Feb 5 primaries, she's done. She can make all the statements about staying until April, but if she is that far down the pressure for her to drop will be way too much and she isn't that stupid. The SDs will probably bolt to Obama at that point and its all back academic.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-06 02:35PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

So Obama's campaign accepts Hodges endorsement as former Governor of South Carolina and declines his campaign contribution as a federal lobbyist. Quelle problem?

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 01:52PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Wow...that's cool. These fools have nuthin' on him.

by Louverture 2008-01-06 01:55PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Other than that he's chairing the campaign, I guess.

You guys seem to have no clue that the sole test of whether something looks bad is not whether you can shout down Jerome on MyDD. You do your candidate no favors with this constant "What, me worry?" routine.

When Hillary was ahead, it was pathetic how her supporters would respond to every criticism with "no one cares, she's going to win anyway." It's no more impressive when you guys do it, nor do you enjoy any sort of special immunity to karma.

by Steve M 2008-01-06 02:02PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

This federal/state lobbyist hypocrisy narrative has been taken off the shelf and polished up a few times already in the campaign, it is a fine line for the Obama campaign, to be sure, but they have held it and it is a damn sight clearer than Hillary's position on this. It always ends up back on the shelf for next time. Think Hillary is going to get lucky this time around? I wonder. It always backfires a little and brings up the lobbyist issue in full which is not her best look. But she's so tangled in negatives at the moment her campaign probably no longer cares.

It is worth looking at what Obama has committed to as far as rules of engagement with lobbyists in his administration, the current political landscape is hardly of his making.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 02:09PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

What are you even talking about? The man is a FEDERAL lobbyist.

by Steve M 2008-01-06 02:18PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

I was addressing both. If Hodges doesn't contribute they are within the letter of their pledge, it seems to me. Otherwise please justify the argument for refusing the endorsement of a former Governor of South Carolina as former state governor, lobbyist or no. I'll admit there is a grey area there but you need to acknowledge that Obama's position, while narrowly scoped, is a welcome reform of Democratic electoral politics in the first place. Why use it as a stick to beat him with? He's on our side with this, and Edwards too.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 02:28PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

He's not just an endorser, he's the chair of Obama's campaign. Of course, I said that in my first response, and if you had addressed it instead of changing the subject to the guy from New Hampshire who wasn't a subject of either your comment or my comment, we wouldn't have to keep going in circles.

by Steve M 2008-01-06 02:31PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Sorry, my mistake about changing the issue, I wasn't paying close enough attention and Jerome's post actually raised the Hodges issue as the thorniest.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 02:42PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Yea, I don't think the NH issue sticks, but the SC one at least provides some sort of discrepancy.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-01-06 02:46PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

SC is gone. The black folks are going to run the Clintons out of the state.

by Louverture 2008-01-06 04:42PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

So it's O.k. as long as it only violates the principle of the pledge but not the letter?

He's running as the change candidate and his defense is that it doesn't violate the letter of the pledge. Not only politics as usual then but also weak and hypocritical. At least Clinton doesn't hide behind such a weak excuse.

It's fine with me if he uses lobbyist in his campaigns but if he's trying to bullshit me about it then he sure isn't on my side.

by Ernst 2008-01-06 02:38PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

The fact remains he is streets ahead of Hillary even daring to make this pledge, and he has stuck to the letter of it. I have no idea, frankly that they have refused Hodges personal contributions but I assume they would have done so.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 02:45PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

In my book, in terms of integrity, a person falls streets behind when they make a false pledge and then plea technicalities when they inevitably violate it.

Clinton never made such a pledge because she refused to lie to us, and she took the heat for not making these phony pledges. To me that is integrity.

by souvarine 2008-01-06 03:12PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

You are certainly entitled to that perspective, it is admittedly a grey area as far as Hodges' endorsement is concerned but props to Obama for even daring to go there. It seems disingenuous to turn this progressive campaign initiative into intentional deceit. Especially considering that if Hillary had come to the party the whole Democratic field would have been aligned on this for use against the Republicans later.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 03:42PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

It could never be used against the Republicans because a) they don't care and b) they could show every Democratic candidate who made the pledge was a hypocrite, and by extension that the entire Democratic party is hypocritical.

It is not disingenuous to point out that the pledge was never sincere, everyone who made it was relying on technicalities. They just wanted a cudgel to beat Hillary with.

by souvarine 2008-01-06 04:42PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

I respect your opinion but don't share it.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 05:45PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

If the argument is about integrity...Clinton loses.

by Louverture 2008-01-06 04:44PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

It's sort of like this oldie but goodie..

"It depends on what your definition of is, is?"

by CVDem 2008-01-06 03:08PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Actually I don't agree with that. Bill Clinton never passed him of as the perfect husband or as a shining example to which we should strive for regarding regarding relationship matters.

He was already called slick willy long before that. I'm not selling Clinton as the most honest of men, I'm just saying that he was not pretending to be loads better then a regular politician.

I come from a long line of politicians, so it actually annoys me to have people trash other politicians while pretending to be spotless themselves.

I know that politics is done by humans and doesn't allow for perfection. I don't expect perfection, I simply expect them to do their job to the best of their ability. And a lot of them actually do. For the most part they really are good people. So when somebody says he´s ``going to clean up` a place they´d better not try to pass themselves of better then they are.

I´ve got a soft spot for politicians who simply present themselves as the technocrats most of them are. They´re usually the most honest of all politicians. After all is set and done, after you strip away all the layers, making the nation a better place to live in is still a just a job.

Like all workplaces not everybody is as competent as the rest, not everybody is as productive or getting a positive result. There are always slackers and deadbeats.

But when you´re decrying all of them as such, it just ticks me off somewhat mightily and you´ll have to prove yourself.

by Ernst 2008-01-06 05:30PM | 0 recs

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THE DALEY MACHINE IS KNOWN

is so well known for its sticking to the ideals of good government. Right...

im sorry, but you are being soooooooo suckered, its embarrassing.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:24PM | 0 recs

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Re: THE DALEY MACHINE IS KNOWN

In your world their is no choice but Hillary, yet the events of the past few days seem to have significantly changed a few little ol' things regarding electoral demographics. We'll see.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 02:31PM | 0 recs

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Re: THE DALEY MACHINE IS KNOWN

i understand elections - i wasnt talking elections. i was talking about the daley-obama machine being the sort that will run the agencies the good old fashioned way. The idea that the donors wont get access to an asst secretary of whatever is ludicrous. You Are too smart to not understand this.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 03:06PM | 0 recs

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Re: THE DALEY MACHINE IS KNOWN

Rome wasn't built in a day. Which direction do you want to point? Tell me this is all a big, cynical con job.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 03:45PM | 0 recs

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Re: THE DALEY MACHINE IS KNOWN

And that wasn't the Clinton's involved in the Lincoln Bedroom scandal in the 90's? Lets not start throwing stones about scandals our candidates have been linked too, because you will lose that battle every time.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-06 02:39PM | 0 recs

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no genius they werent

that was gop created and msm spread bs now spread by that vermin robert gibbs.

why dont you look up the wash post stud from 03 or 04 that showed that charge was complete bull s?

like you care enough bout the truth to do that - right.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 03:02PM | 0 recs

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Re: THE DALEY MACHINE IS KNOWN

Where did this come from.

Do you know anything about the Daley-Obama relationship that those of us political junkies in freakin' Chicago are unaware of?

You're talkking out of your ass if you think Obama is part of the 'Chicago machine'... Hell - several of the alderman that knocked off Daley machine faves this past election have substantial Obama connections.

Were you aware that in the crowded 2004 IL Senate field - Obama was nowhere near Daley's pick (Daley was a Blair Hull supporter and Dan Hynes was the machine name)?

by zonk 2008-01-06 04:01PM | 0 recs

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these fools?

you are SUCH an ass.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:25PM | 0 recs

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Re: these fools?

Good one, "Mr. Journalist". Very witty.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-06 02:39PM | 0 recs

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live in or near dc?

if so - lets meet.

id like to discuss your charges that im a liar.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:55PM | 0 recs

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Re: live in or near dc?

I'll cut you.

by Louverture 2008-01-06 04:45PM | 0 recs

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Re: live in or near dc?

i love you louverture.

by leewesley 2008-01-06 07:09PM | 0 recs

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a "man"

who insults a woman gently bragging about her beloved daughter deserves to have his light knocked out - sadly you snide guys get to hide from your just deserts and you just insult and attack at will.

Personally, I find you and him to be dishonorable scum.

Clear enough?

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:59PM | 0 recs

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pal

dont you feel even slightly dirty pushing such hypocritical bull poo?

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:02PM | 0 recs

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ow shove it.

by rapcetera 2008-01-06 02:10PM | 0 recs

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Re: pal

I don't beat my wife either. Single.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 02:10PM | 0 recs

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Re: pal

But you are misrepresenting the facts. You're usually a decent contributer, even when I disagree with you, but as soon as the topic involves Obama, you seem to lose any critical thoughts and use discredited arguments to blur the topic.

The cognitive dissonanceis frightening. You'll only set yourself up for disappointment this way.

by Ernst 2008-01-06 02:44PM | 0 recs

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Re: pal

Well, the list of my potential disappointments has been shrinking rapidly, just lately. I am a disclosed Obama supporter and am arguing a fair case on his behalf. It is not like we haven't endured a barrage of bullsh*t along with cogent and respectful arguments over the past year or so, eh?

And my credibility and integrity has allegedly hung in the balance throughout, I am getting used to this.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 03:51PM | 0 recs

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Re: pal

Well you actually have quite a bit of credibility and integrity with me on topics not related to Obama. You're a respectful person that likes to argue and really get into the details.

But as soon as Obama gets anywhere near a negative mention anywhere you don't seem to be able to differentiate between fair criticisms and unfair criticisms and you're simply not hitting the same level in your arguments because of it. Perhaps I'm just becoming allergic to the fact that I've never seen (or registered) any Obama backer admitting that the guy made a mistake, no matter how minor. Just like here.

I might certainly be wrong in that regard as I probably miss the majority of all diaries and over reacting. If that is so sorry.

But I really think most of the Obama backers here are going to be very disappointed the first few years. He´s both going to make a lot of mistakes, and be quite different in general policy from what most people expect here. I´ve seen it with Clinton supporters in ´92 and worried that a lot Obama supporters will go through the same thing.

by Ernst 2008-01-06 05:35PM | 0 recs

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Re: pal

The Donnie McLurkin thing was a counter-productive disaster, I am uncomfortable with where the Social Security issue ended up, I was choking on blue curses when he fumbled the Driver's License question in the Nevada debate and if he's says 'turn the page' one more time I think I will be ill.

But I still support his candidacy 100% and respect his authority to run his own campaign without much kibitzing and second-guessing from me.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 05:52PM | 0 recs

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Re: pal

in that case I haven't said a thing...

just chalk it up to the bitterness of a person who just saw his own preferred candidate drop out. ;)

by Ernst 2008-01-07 01:20PM | 0 recs

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Re: pal

No worries, your criticism is cogent and constructive.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-07 03:00PM | 0 recs

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So Jerome...

Are you going to continue making bullshit posts hating on Obama once he's the nominee?

by PsiFighter37 2008-01-06 01:52PM | 0 recs

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You have proven to be an idiot

in this campoaign.

How dare you come back to this site after the shit you have written?

Take a zero for Chutzpah.

by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-06 01:54PM | 0 recs

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Re: So Jerome...

Thanks for coming.... and going.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-01-06 02:15PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Jerome stopping at nothing to take down Obama! What else is new.

Where's your diary about Clinton dirty politics about abortion rights for women? The fact that Planned Parenthood has come out in strong support of Obama?

Jerome?

by mattmfm 2008-01-06 01:53PM | 0 recs

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they have?

In 03-04 I used to do consulting work for them in their nat'l hq. What a horror that was. Got paid big dough and had a contract but it just wasnt worth it. I never worked with a worse group than chicago PP though. The head of that group boldly lied to me on numerous occasions.

Hillary has dissed them though, as she spoke at the Naral dinner during the womens march and not PP. {PP HATES Naral} Bill passed also. Oh well, looks like revenge time. Couldnt come from a shallower org. {This criticism has nothing to do with their centers, whch does great work, just their "political" wing which truly is a horror.}

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:12PM | 0 recs

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Re: they have?

According to the other thread, you were working as a "journalist" until 2004. Which one is it?

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-06 02:40PM | 0 recs

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Re: they have?

I produced lefty shows you twit - i got hired as a consultant to produce shows around the country by PP to promote the "stand up for choice" march on DC.

Im getting mighty sick of you accusing me of being a liar pal.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:52PM | 0 recs

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Re: they have?

you havent been paying attention, Seymour has been a part of every good thing that has ever happened, but he hates rich people!

by leewesley 2008-01-06 07:12PM | 0 recs

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Here we go again!

From The Politico:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 108/Back_to_Iraq.html

Back to Iraq

In Nashua, Hillary skates on the edge of Iraq revisionism:

"After 9/11, I would never have taken us to war in Iraq," she said. "I would have stayed focused on Afghanistan because the real threat was coming from there."

Now, that's probably true in the literal, alternate history sense: As president, she wouldn't have taken the U.S. into war. But it also revives a conversation that had flagged, about her initial vote for the use of force.

UPDATE: Obama spokesman Bill Burton takes a shot:

Hillary Clinton may try to rewrite history, but it's hard to believe she didn't know what would happen after she voted for a resolution with the title ?A Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq.? While Hillary Clinton continues to make the same kind of attacks that voters are rejecting, Barack Obama will continue telling voters about his consistent opposition to the war in Iraq from the start, and his plan to bring our troops home.

by mattmfm 2008-01-06 01:57PM | 0 recs

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Truly this is a moronic issue

that will register with NO VOTER. No one gives a crap about this kind of inside baseball bullshit.

by dataguy 2008-01-06 02:04PM | 0 recs

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Re: Truly this is a moronic issue

Voters care about corruption. They care about corporate influence in government. What they don't care about is absurd "meaning of 'is'"-style distinctions between the federal and state lobbyists. Obama needs to do the right thing on this and move Demers and Hodges out of his campaign.

by blueflorida 2008-01-06 03:26PM | 0 recs

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Another Jerome Armstrong hit.

I love it!

by rapcetera 2008-01-06 02:10PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Obama and Edwards both have rejected campaign contributions from federally registered PAC's and lobbyists. That is a huge step forward, one by the way that Clinton was not willing to match.

Is is perfect? No, but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

WRT to Hodges, unless you can find where he contributed $$ to the campaign, it's irrelevant.

by dmc2 2008-01-06 02:11PM | 0 recs

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WHA?

"unless you can find where he contributed $$ to the campaign, it's irrelevant."

IS THERE ANY MOMENT THAT YOU FOLKS WILL BE SHOCKED BY YOUR OWN AMAZING HYPOCRISY?

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:20PM | 0 recs

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Re: WHA?

Don't yell, it's rude. I can hear you fine in lower-case. Obama has promised not to take campaign contributions for federal PAC's and lobbyists and that's what he's done. What's to discuss?

by dmc2 2008-01-06 02:31PM | 0 recs

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Re: More magical thinking from the

Gee, thanks. I like that better than Obamaniacs, it has a nice classical overtone, doesn't it?

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 02:39PM | 0 recs

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I worked with Penny Pritzger in 96

before and during the convention. The idea that she as obama's finance director and the Daley machine which IS THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN are the type of people that will change the way that politics is done by and for the wealthy contributors is just wholly ridiculous and anybody who buys that BS is too dumb to breed.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:17PM | 0 recs

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you know Penny Pritzker?

Hasn't she done a great job with fundraising? $100 million for a rookie, damn! And they did it the right way too, mostly small donors (511,000 as of today). She's an interesting character that I know a little bit about.

You're way off base about Obama and Daley. Daley supported Bobby Rush in 2000 when Obama got his ass kicked and even backed Dan Hynes against Obama in 2004. Starting in 2004, Daley realized that one of the most talented politicians in the country was a Chicagoan and made peace. Now there is a peaceful coexistence and pride but to suggest that Obama is a Daley operative is wrong.

by mboehm 2008-01-06 02:44PM | 0 recs

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Re: you know Penny Pritzker?

boy arent you confused.

you just argue ALL MY POINTS and you think you were doing the opposite.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 03:09PM | 0 recs

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Re: I worked with Penny Pritzger in 96

You'd think someone who worked with her would know how to spell her name.... Pritzker... She's my great Auntie three times removed by the way.

Still would love to see some proof... You seem to be the Forrest Gump of MyDD.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-06 02:46PM | 0 recs

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Re: I worked with Penny Pritzger in 96

shes that hyatt harvard rich twit - dumb as a donut.

i never brag to be rich - Im a labor/leftist - not shocking that you do.

my email is seymourglass08@gmail.com

Id LOVE to meet with you. Send me an email cuz.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 03:12PM | 0 recs

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Looks like

Jerome and his fringe Obama distortions are back. I kind of thought Iowa would quiet him down a bit...

by moreaxe 2008-01-06 02:20PM | 0 recs

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you guys think youve won the war

this battle hasnt even begun.

youve seen nothing yet. wait till we break for feb 5 states. it wontt be about what hillary says.
its gonna go local and bloody.

thats when the real "fun" begins...

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:30PM | 0 recs

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Re: you guys think youve won the war

Keeping thinking that MJ.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-06 02:48PM | 0 recs

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I thought the attacks would at least be honest

after the Iowa win. Looks like that was too much to hope for.

by moreaxe 2008-01-06 02:55PM | 0 recs

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Maybe we should attack Al Gore for

saying he invented the internet. I think that line of attack had more merit than this.

So many Hillary fans have descended into self-parody, its really amusing.

by moreaxe 2008-01-06 02:28PM | 0 recs

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wtf?

THAT MAKES no sense whasoever.

by the way pal, the tools who spread that gore lie, frank rich, matthews , dowd are all now with obama - so dont disgrace al with such bs ok?

i was on the phone this morn with bob somerby, the daily howler - the man who disproved that msm lie line - for an hour today discussing the dishonesty of robert gibbs and the obama campaign - so just shove that analogy bud. it makes me gag.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:36PM | 0 recs

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Re: wtf?

For someone who claims to have a journalism background, you write like a monkey on crack. Take a breath, type slower and actually come up with an intelligent sentence.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-06 02:50PM | 0 recs

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look lil boy

i have never claimed to be a journalist. I have answered your questions explaining my background.

You are really pissing me off here. How dare you accuse me of being a liar? How were you raised? What the FUCK is wrong with you? Are you a frigging teen? Do pea brain half wits like you not know how to argue without being such total jerks? I dont hate obama - hell i want him to be Hillary's vp, but i am getting very sick of you calling me a liar and asking me to "prove myself" How dare you? This is an anonymous site and i have already had one stupid blog post my actual name so that when Im googled - its attack on me and my background comes up.

You are quickly showing yourself to be the lowest lowballer on this site.

Redeem yourself, rich boy, 3 cousins over.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 03:23PM | 0 recs

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Re: look lil boy

HAHAHA

What was that someone said about Hillary's supporters descending into self-parody? What a perfect example of it...

by moreaxe 2008-01-07 07:08AM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Young people are riding a tidal wave of support that threatens to drown Hillary alive....sounds like a movement if I ever heard one. It is exciting. It is historical. We are turning the page (crashing the gates) and are about to elect the first black president--that's monumental.

i think that you should consider joining us.

by aiko 2008-01-06 02:29PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

For now we're manning the barricades, gate-crashing comes in February. But your right.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-06 02:40PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

I'm on the sidelines and uncommitted, but of course if he wins the nomination, I will tip the hope-trust-unity-believe drink in gallons.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-01-06 02:42PM | 0 recs

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i always pull the big lever

but I'll be heading to Montana to make sure a certain Governor gets reelected so we can have a good candidate in 2012 to run against President McCain.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:48PM | 0 recs

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Re: i always pull the big lever

Too bad Schweitzer will have to wait until 2016 to be able to run... but unless Obama's VP is someone I like, Schweitzer will have my support.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-06 02:51PM | 0 recs

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Re: i always pull the big lever

That's a good direction.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-01-06 03:02PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

That makes me feel better. I have been wondering what you would do if Obama won. I was a bit afraid a Nader or other 3rd party endorsement would come from you. Glad to here you'll support the party's candidate unlike some other people on here.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-06 02:53PM | 0 recs

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i wrote a dary saing it should be

hillary/obama 08 and that then obama will get the experience he needs - win or lose - to be on deck as our next candidate.

Ive discussed this most reccently just before xmas with a great pal way up in obamaland. Im SICK of this HATE FILLED bickering. We disagree - cant we do it without being so venomous. Hell, in 94 I worked with Axelrod and LIKED him and think he should run the november campaign..

Gibbs is a different story. He would have to go.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 03:42PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

I will hold you to that!

by aiko 2008-01-06 02:57PM | 0 recs

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"young people" seem to think

its american idol.

Seems politicaly, your average youth is just as frigging dumb as they were when I was their age and the twits were all voting Reagan.

Seems Evan Bayh's old man made one great whopper of a mistake.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:42PM | 0 recs

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Re: "young people" seem to think

Ah yes, insult the youth vote. That's intelligent.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-06 02:54PM | 0 recs

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Re: "young people" seem to think

Every time I read his nonsense it just pisses me off . IF THIS IS HOW THE "ADULTS" ARE GOING TO TREAT THE FUTURE OF THEIR PARTY THAN I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

by SocialDem 2008-01-07 11:55AM | 0 recs

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Re: "young people" seem to think

semour i am older than dirt and i love what the young people are doing. i am so ready for a victory. it long overdue and to join with folks in their 20s makes it even better.

by aiko 2008-01-06 03:01PM | 0 recs

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Re: "young people" seem to think

hey - what im not allowed my personal opinion?

I do not worship the wisdom of the young.

Sorry.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 03:29PM | 0 recs

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Re: "young people" seem to think

And look where the "wisdom" of the old has got us?

by SocialDem 2008-01-07 11:51AM | 0 recs

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Re: "young people" seem to think

I resent that. If it weren't for Gen X'ers and even baby boomers and their child-like mentality when it comes to politics maybe more would be done. The millenials are very progressive and will be very important for an electoral alignment in the Democrats favor. To just throw us under the bus like you suggest really says a lot about the contempt the establishment has for the party's future. You should be ashamed of yourself.

by SocialDem 2008-01-07 11:50AM | 0 recs

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Re: "young people" seem to think

by SocialDem 2008-01-07 11:50AM | 0 recs

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Obama the Frontrunner

If Obama can finish what's in motion now, it will be in California. If Obama wins California, then HRC will be done. If HRC wins California, then it will be a more difficult race.

From what I can see, the Obama strategy to a possible loss in California is the reverse Guiliani. Go hard in the Red States where antipathy toward the Clintons is the highest. The problem is that most of these states are smaller although cumulatively they could add up to something to erase any Clinton delegate lead.

by mboehm 2008-01-06 03:00PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

the problem with worrying about super tuesday is that we have no idea what will happen this tuesday. first he has to win NH--and if he wins big, then the margin of victory will provide a domino effect. a win, plus a healthy margin, means something very different, than just a win.

by aiko 2008-01-06 03:05PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

You're right. But the combination of momentum and VERY strong organization (plus the Culinary in Nevada) will make it very difficult for HRC to win in Nevada or South Carolina. This is playing out exactly as Axelrod/Obama planned it.

by mboehm 2008-01-06 03:16PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

oh jesus, jesse jackson won SC - Hillary loses SC. Very expected.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 03:33PM | 0 recs

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Bush lost NH by 19 percent.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 03:31PM | 0 recs

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ding-ding-ding

we have a WINNER!

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:31PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Its funny how Jerome says he hasn't picked a candidate.

I think he picked a candidate to go after a long time go.

We've seen the diaries by Jerome. Less said the better.

by crackityjones 2008-01-06 02:32PM | 0 recs

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then say notthing naderite

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:38PM | 0 recs

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Re: then say notthing naderite

I never bought the Nader shtick unlike yourself.

by crackityjones 2008-01-06 03:07PM | 0 recs

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Re: then say notthing naderite

actual democrats dont say the kind of vile things about the clintons you have.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 03:26PM | 0 recs

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Re: then say notthing naderite

NO? I know plenty of "actual" democrats that don't like the Clintons.

by crackityjones 2008-01-06 03:34PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

This is the "best" Jerome Armstrong can come up with.

99.9% of America doesn't even care about this superficial inside analysis. And I am being generous by rounding up. This is a non-issue for voters right now.

Jerome, (and Seymour too), never stand in front of a freight train. Or in this case the Obama movement.

by riverred 2008-01-06 02:39PM | 0 recs

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no they care about

kindergarten "attacks" right?

So you have me pointing out that that average IQ is 100, big win for you.

by Seymour Glass 2008-01-06 02:45PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

I agree, America isn't paying attention since they think Obama is the second coming of JKF, or was it MLK?

by CVDem 2008-01-06 03:16PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Well,

His base isn't bothered by stuff like that which is why the attacks on him don't work.

by BlueDiamond 2008-01-06 03:31PM | 0 recs

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His base isn't bothered by ANYTHING about him.

Gibbs, McGurkin, Lobbying hypocrisy, inadequate Health Care proposals, undermining Social Security, undemining the democratic party, comparing himself to MLK.

I could go on but it would take all day.

by Rooktoven 2008-01-07 02:35AM | 0 recs

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Re: His base isn't bothered by ANYTHING about him.

All day? He'll have won New Hampshire by then.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-01-07 04:12AM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

I've long held out to not supporting a candidate, because I'd like to see a spirited contest that scrutinizes the candidate. Now that Obama is the perceived frontrunner, every move of his is game.

Good to see you haven't lost your sense of humor.

by Piuma 2008-01-06 03:16PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Haven't read the comments yet, but that was an awful response by Gibbs. Just awful. Is Obama really making the case that state level lobbyists aren't a big problem? NEWSFLASH: State Level Lobbyists give to federal candidates too.

Obama needs to man-up and move Demers and Hodges out of his campaign.

by blueflorida 2008-01-06 03:21PM | 0 recs

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If I Had To Adress It....

I would say, he's not taking money from them and they are not funding his campaign. They only work on his campaign ? No ? Gimme some time . I'll come up with something. I mean, it will be addressed to the voters satisfaction.

by BlueDiamond 2008-01-06 03:30PM | 0 recs

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You'll come up with something...

Like the Obama campaign. Because it's OK to make proclamations that you violate in principle, as long as you don't violate the letter.

Change my ass. This guy is the most "Business as Usual" clown that has shown up in the Democratic party in years.

One good speech and he's the fucking messiah now.

by Rooktoven 2008-01-07 02:38AM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

"I've long held out to not supporting a candidate"

You HAVE to be kidding. There is not a single writer/blogger/anything online who has been more blatantly, unashamedly (except for now, maybe there's a little shame) pro-Edwards than Jerome Armstrong.

This would be all good, a little irritating, but all good, but please do not pretend otherwise. Please don't make us quote every single line you've ever written about this election. Please.

by pcjnyc 2008-01-06 03:31PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

First of all, Jim Hodges is the last Dem elected Governor of South Carolina. H-Rod's campaign would love to have his help in this key early primary.

Second, the Clinton campaign wants a contest about whose top staffers and supporters present more apparent improprieties and conflicts of interest. I've got two words for you: Mark Penn.

by Thom 2008-01-06 03:57PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

"One of Barack Obama's four New Hampshire co-chairs, who is also one of the state's most prominent lobbyists, entered the conversation of the Democratic presidential race last night with this phrase from Hillary Clinton at the debate: "When it comes to lobbyists, you know that Senator Obama's chair in New Hampshire is a lobbyist. He lobbies for the drug companies." "Not true," said Obama. But it is true."--Armstrong

Obama continually fibs with the audacity and impunity of a 3 year old seized more with the fear of being found out than guilt over the act of lying. Strange for such a supposedly intellectually gifted lawyer and wordsmith to resort to outright fibs. Obama's auto-fibbing impulse is as head scratching a trait as being a wealthy kleptomaniac. Even funnier is the way the MSM conveniently glosses over these moments of Obama's economy with the truth. The MSM enabling of Obama is like buying the store for a wealthy kleptomaniac. This whole thing will end in tears for this Potemkin President.

by superetendar 2008-01-06 04:39PM | 0 recs

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Can Obama Handle Criticism?

Let's face it - so far, the media has given him nothing but glowing coverage. If he does secure the nomination, will he be able to take on the Republican attack machine? We all know the GOP will say and do whatever it takes to destroy him. I am very concerned that he hasn't been tested in this arena. The media loves to build someone up only to tear them down. Is Obama's time coming? And does he have what it takes to weather the storm when it hits?

by votethegopout 2008-01-06 05:15PM | 0 recs

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Re: Obama the Frontrunner

Jerome Armstrong is to Barack Obama as Dick Morris is to Hillary Clinton

by bobestes 2008-01-06 05:46PM | 0 recs

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WOW. This is Edwards Strategy

Let Hillary and Obama supporters fight until the last person standing. What is terribly wrong about the narrative here is how the hax here are acting just like the MSM and pollsters that you typically decry. As an underdog, we don't care if its 16 or 20% in NH...or 23% Nationally. We are on cruise control and truth serum, it all gets better from here. JRE is going nowhere but up. King or queen maker, or Prez. As Hillary and Obamas fight intensifies, its lookin better for us everyday. We might even get some coverage for our serious campaign.

by msnstd 2008-01-06 07:11PM | 0 recs