Florida Prediction Thread

Democrats and Republicans. Your predictions please.

I'll go with Clinton at 51%, Obama 39% and Edwards 10% on the Dem side. And Romney 33%, McCain 30%, Giuliani 17%, Hukckabee 15% and Paul 5% on the Republican side.  

On the Dem side, a double-digit win by Clinton, and her going over 50%, are going to be markers of success. On the Republican side, I'm gonna guess that Romney is helped by it being a closed primary.

Update [2008-1-29 12:50:6 by Todd Beeton]:But how closed is the Florida primary exactly?

In northern Coral Springs, near the Sawgrass Expressway and Coral Ridge Drive, David Nirenberg arrived to vote as an independent. Nevertheless, he said poll workers insisted he choose a party ballot.

"He said to me, 'Are you Democrat or Republican?' I said, 'Neither, I am independent.' He said, 'Well, you have to pick one,'" Nirenberg said.

In Florida, only those who declare a party are allowed to cast a vote in that party's presidential primary.

Nirenberg said he tried to explain to the poll worker that he should not vote on a party ballot because of his "no party affiliation" status.

Nirenberg said a second poll worker was called over who agreed that independents should not use party ballots, but said they had received instructions to the contrary.

"He said, 'Ya know, that is kind of funny, but it was what we were told.' … I was shocked when they told me that." Nirenberg said he went ahead and voted for John McCain.

Tags: Florida 2008 (all tags)

Comments

118 Comments

Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Clinton 55
Obama 35
Edwards 10

McCain 33
Romney 30
Giuliani 17
Huckabee 15
Paul 5

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-01-29 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

On the Dem side, a double-digit win by Clinton, and her going over 50%, are going to be markers of success.

You forgot how anti Clinton the media is. The way the media is going to spin it is "40% of Floridians voted against Hillary Clinton".

by world dictator 2008-01-29 07:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Probably not a bad estimate, given that a million votes were cast absentee before the SC primary, and before Bill Clinton's race card flub, and before the Kennedy's endorsement.

by shergald 2008-01-29 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread
The race "flub" probably helped with a load of whites and hispanics. At least that's what all the Obamanauts have been telling us for weeks.
Just a little intellectual inconsistency but not unusual.
by ottovbvs 2008-01-29 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

I hate to say this but the race issue only helps Clinton.

You cannot avoid the fact that African American voters are voting along racial lines.

That essentially gives license to others to do the same and/or oppose a candidate on that basis.

by kristoph 2008-01-29 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Is that a prediction or just useless commentary?

by JDF 2008-01-29 09:17AM | 0 recs
A 0 delegate beauty contest doesn't count

Hillary has inherent advantage in an uncontested race due to name recognition.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-01-29 08:55AM | 0 recs
I Would've Believed That in January

It's a little hard for me to believe now that Obama loses because nobody knows him.

If Obama gets stomped tonight, it will be because Florida demos favor Hillary - hispanics, older voters, etc.  Just as South Carolina demos favored Obama.  And Nevada and NH demos favored Hillary.  And Iowa demos favored Obama.  

I think I'm seeing a trend.

by BDB 2008-01-29 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: I Would've Believed That in January

How heavily has he run ads there?
He hasn't camapaigned there at all, while Floridians have seen Both Bill and Hillary in at least two previous presidential elections.

Not to mention that although Obama is well known there is no way he is AS well known as Hillary.

I won't go so far as to say the race means nothing- but lets face the facts SC was more important and FL is not going to have a huge impact on momentum going into Super TUesday.

by JDF 2008-01-29 09:19AM | 0 recs
Re: I Would've Believed That in January

Honestly JDF ... your argument is illogical.

Obama is running national television advertising which is reaching into the FL homes.

Many of the 2/5 states will see that same level of advertising, albeit 6 more days of it.

If Obama looses by 20+ points in FL do you really think he can advertise his way to a victory in other states?

I will grant you he will do better in CA and in other states where he advertising more but if you do the math on a paper napkin you can see he will be down at least 200 delegates (say 250 including super delegates) coming out of 2/5.

Is it possible he can make that up down the road? Yes. Is it likely? No.

by kristoph 2008-01-29 10:13AM | 0 recs
Re: I Would've Believed That in January

He doesn't have a campaign on the ground in Florida. Neither does Clinton but she has had a much longer time (15+ years with the help of her husband) to build a base there.

We all know how important a good ground game is, and I would argue that lacking campaigns on the ground in Florida makes it irrelevant to the discussion on how people on the 2/5 states will actually respond to the campaigns.

by JDF 2008-01-29 12:22PM | 0 recs
They should hold proper 'make-up' primaries

in FL and MI after the scheduled primaries and caucuses are over, should that stand to change the outcome. Proper campaigning and proper results can then result from it.

Hillary always enjoyed double digit leads in national and state polls, but come actual elections, the results have beeen dramatically different in all of the 4 states where serious contests took place. That ought to tell you all there is to know.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-01-29 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: They should hold proper 'make-up' primaries

I have been making this point for weeks. It's always the same story:

  1. Hillary has double digit leads over Obama
  2. People actually hear Obama speak, and do a little research
  3. Hillary's lead dwindles considerable, or goes negative come voting time.

Folks on here need to get THAT picture.

If Hillary's biggest win comes in a state where nobody  campaigned and  no delegates are at stake, then that says a whole lot more than her losing in South Carolina where half of the Democrats (Blacks) were polling strong for her just a few short months ago, but changed their mind after Obama came to town and Bill starting running his mouth.

Hillary is the establishment candidate. Face it. You have to be after you or your husband has held high-profile elected offices since 1992.
Establishment candidates like low-turnout, elections. Elections where there is very little to no campaigning. This is good for the establishment candidate because people will vote for the name  they know.
Especially, against candidates like Obama whom people may have heard of but  are not sure of the details, or may be under the assumption of lie that they have heardm read. (Like him being a Muslim or refusing to salute the flag or being sworn in on a Koran)

I find it interesting that Hillary supporters think that Florida is such an indicator of the progress of both campaigns when Barack won't be able to defend himself in person against that false email that was sent out about him being anti-semitic.
Especially with such a large Jewish population, voting. hmmm..makes  you think...

by xodus1914 2008-01-29 10:18AM | 0 recs
Re:Floridians Don't Live in a CAVE!

Well, according to Obama AND Kerry the 1 million Florida voters do not count and suggesting it counts is 'politics as usual'.

The audacity of that statement totally blows me away.

It's time for Change. It's time to disenfranchise 1 million voters so Obama can win.

by kristoph 2008-01-29 10:17AM | 0 recs
Re:Floridians Don't Live in a CAVE!

Obama didn't disenfranchise them, they did it themselves.

by NJIndependent 2008-01-29 11:02AM | 0 recs
Re: A 0 delegate beauty contest doesn't count

Nope they've never heard of Obama down there. Whose he? a hip hop singer? Are you really as silly as you sound.

by ottovbvs 2008-01-29 11:03AM | 0 recs
Obama closed the gap dramatically in all 4

contest where campaigned and won an impressive IA victory and a stunning SC victory:
http://www.pollster.com/08-IA-Dem-Pres-P rimary.php
http://www.pollster.com/08-NH-Dem-Pres-P rimary.php
http://www.pollster.com/08-NV-Dem-Pres-P rimary.php
http://www.pollster.com/08-SC-Dem-Pres-P rimary.php

Campaigning matters and especially so in Obama's case. People like him when them get to know him up close. Iowa results (as well as his GE standings there in Dec/Jan) are a stellar example of that.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-01-29 12:59PM | 0 recs
Romney wins

McCain looks older than Bob Dole and dirt. Romney by 7.

Though, I'm not sure that's what I want anymore. Mitt's been looking tougher every week.

by Cleveland John 2008-01-29 06:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Romney wins

McCain looks older than Bob Dole and dirt.

Now that really made me giggle out loud. Two points.

by Denny Crane 2008-01-29 07:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

I'll go with Clinton - 57% Obama - 35% Edwards: 6% other - 2%  (there's always 1-2% other!!)

by ocli 2008-01-29 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Clinton 57
Obama 33
Edwards 9

Romney 35
McCain 30
Huckabee 13
Giuliani 11
Paul 6

by rcipw 2008-01-29 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Clinton 54%

Obama   31%

Edwards 15%

Romney 34 %

Mccain 32%

Guiliani 15%

Huckabee 13%

Ron Paul  6%

by lori 2008-01-29 07:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Republicans:

Romney 35
McCain  33
Huckabee 15
Giuliani 12
Paul  5

by Vox Populi 2008-01-29 07:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

DEM

C: 47
O: 38
E: 15

GOP:

M: 33
R: 32
H: 22
P: 7
G: 6

by shlenny 2008-01-29 07:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Clinton 70%
Obama 20%
Edwards 10%

Clinton gets all the Floridian delegates and wins the nomination.

Oh...so there are no Floridian Democratic delegates?  So why are we making any predictions?

by puma 2008-01-29 07:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Sore loser!

by Zeitgeist9000 2008-01-29 07:07AM | 0 recs
Exactly

Couldn't have said it better.

by puma 2008-01-29 07:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Maybe 1 million Floridians are going to vote for a Democratic nominee.

It will not only be an indicator of who the country prefers but who is more electable.

by kristoph 2008-01-29 07:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Not in the least.

Wait, am I just imagining that Hillary looks to be ahead in tons of Feb. 5 states with Obama bringing up the kaboose, thereby being in serious danger to fall far behind in the delegate count by Feb. 6?  Your post makes it look as if Obama has surged ahead, which seems ambitious at best.

by georgep 2008-01-29 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

I am predicting Giuliani does better the expected due to early and or absentee voting. Plus I bet some are feeling sorry for him. He will still loose but not by as much as some are predicting.

by evan108108 2008-01-29 07:07AM | 0 recs
Clinton 45, Obama 39, Edwards 13

Romney 39, McCain 35, Giuliani 13

by Delaware Dem 2008-01-29 07:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Romney 35%
McCain 32%
Giuliani 15%
Huckabee 14%
Paul 4%

Clinton 48%
Obama 42%
Edwards 10%
Gravel 0%

by Socks The Cat 2008-01-29 07:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Romney   38%
Mcain    35%
Huckabee 12%
Giuliani 12%
Paul      3%

Hillary 48%
Obama   42%
Edwards 10%

Let's see how the Clinton spin this after leading by as many as 30% in pre-primary polls.

by Jr1886 2008-01-29 07:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

If Hillary doesn't win Florida by double digits she has problems.

I'll take McCain by a small margin over Romney simply because the typical Florida voter probably likes McCain's youthful good looks.

by Steve M 2008-01-29 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Clinton 53%
Obama 32%
Edwards 11%

Clinton gets a massive turnout from women and Hispanics and it will be record-breaker, even though the delegates won't officially count until later.  

by georgep 2008-01-29 07:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Democrats...It doesn't matter.  Hillary will win the beauty contest.

Republicans...Romney wins due in part to McCain and Guiliani splitting moderates and military voters.

by TheUnknown285 2008-01-29 07:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

A "beauty contest" is still a contest.  Why would Obama not be strong in this state, which after all had no candidates campaigning, therefore react to national stories and gained momentum unfiltered?   Because of his weakness with women voters and Hispanics?  Well, this then is a great test and predictor for many of the contests coming up a week from today, given the demographics present in many of those states.  

by georgep 2008-01-29 07:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Maybe, but the NY-FL connection is a variable that you can't filter out of the equation.  I'm not sure how accurate a barometer FL would be in any event.

by rfahey22 2008-01-29 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: True

In fact, AZ and CA have better demographics if you assume Latino voters will vote in approximately the same proportion for Clinton, as they did in NV.

by kristoph 2008-01-29 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary Wins Beauty Contest in Florida!!!

That's the headline we'll probably see.
by Tennessean 2008-01-29 09:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Two words: Name. Recognition.

If no one knows Obama in FL how do you think he will do in all those other states where no one has heard of him and he can't afford to advertise?

Gimme a break. He is not going to win FL because the demographics don't favor him.

by kristoph 2008-01-29 10:53AM | 0 recs
Expectations Game (snark)

I think anything less than a 60 point win for Clinton is a real loss.  

Note:  This is lighthearted folks, so don't kill me.  :)

by HSTruman 2008-01-29 07:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Expectations Game (snark)

Reliable and confidential polling (only Karl Rove and I have access) has her at 7,000%, so 62 would be a grave set-back.  :)

Seriously though, glad we can both laugh about this stuff a little bit.  

by HSTruman 2008-01-29 07:30AM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously

Hey, why stop at 60?  Why not 75?

by Denny Crane 2008-01-29 08:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Romney 39%, McCain 33%, Giuliani 16%

by georgep 2008-01-29 07:13AM | 0 recs
Florida, like Michigan...

...will likely be almost completely ignored by the media, despite some who predicted they would play an important role for Clinton...

by Vermonter 2008-01-29 07:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida, like Michigan...

Is this a whining thread from those who were wrong or a prediction thread?

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-01-29 07:27AM | 0 recs
I'm simply predicting that... ..

... the results of Florida will have little impact on the race narrative.

Just as I and others were correct in thinking that Michigan would have little impact in helping the Clintons campaign.

But, I was actually wrong, since Hillary's less than impressive victory over "uncommitted" seemed to have helped Obama.

by Vermonter 2008-01-29 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm simply predicting that... ..

How were you "right"?   Despite the culinary union endorsing Obama, which the Obama campaign believed would propel him to a win, Clinton won NV.  How do you know that acknowledged and heard-about results from a state as important as Michigan had no bearing on the result?  

by georgep 2008-01-29 07:52AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm simply predicting that... ..

Obama won Nevada.  He got more delegates.  This is a race for delagates.

by pontificator 2008-01-29 08:14AM | 0 recs
Re: I'm simply predicting that... ..

Is that why he flew out of Nevada in the afternoon and did not stick around to address his supporters, never gave a speech?  Come on, get real.

by georgep 2008-01-29 08:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Clinton 58
Obama 32
Edwards 10

Romney 34
McCain 30
Giuliani 16
Huckabee 12
Paul 6

by Christopher Lib 2008-01-29 07:14AM | 0 recs
my best guesses

On the Democratic side:

Clinton 52
Obama 40
Edwards 8

For the Republicans:

McCain 37
Romney 32
Huckabee 15
Giuliani 12
Paul 4

by desmoinesdem 2008-01-29 07:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread
Hillary 0 delegates
Obama 0 delegates
Edwards 0 delegates
by enarjay 2008-01-29 07:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Most reasonable prediction yet!

by TheUnknown285 2008-01-29 07:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

well played

by danIA 2008-01-29 07:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

hahahahah

by animated 2008-01-29 08:18AM | 0 recs
I just got back from voting in Florida

I can't help but notice how no one dares to try and guess how strong the Gravel vote is. Well rest assured people he got at least one today! :D

Plus I was interviewed by the local press. But sadly, not about my Gravel vote it was about the amendment and not the presidential contest.

Turnout seemed about normal, which is light. But there were several first time voters (a couple of young people and a middle aged woman who had no idea how to vote). Beautiful weather for voting today.

by Step Beyond 2008-01-29 07:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Who gives a shit?  No delegates at stake, no one campaigned there.  It's a name recognition contest.  If she doesn't win by at least 20 points, she should be ashamed of herself.  Let's move past this and focus on the Fifth.

by Chili Dogg 2008-01-29 07:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Really, it's a no-sweat primary for all involv

Thank you for explaining that for me.

by Chili Dogg 2008-01-29 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re:

Why less than 20%?  Anything above 13%, 15% is blowout territory.  In a state as huge and demographically representative as Florida (we here have about the national average of youth, Hispanics, AAs, economic groups making under $50,000, over $75,000, etc.) the numbers make for important predictors for those groups in Feb. 5 states (given that neither candidate won't be able to be present in a big way in all states.)

by georgep 2008-01-29 07:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Some Obama's supporters have a disconnect:  the expect national recognition leading to a bounce leading out of South Carolina but expect dumb Florida voters to vote only upon simplistic name recognition, do I have this right?

It matters something if Hillary gets more Democratic votes in Florida than in all the previous primaries put together.   Delegates awarded or no, the results reflect the sentiment of a very large number of voters.

by InigoMontoya 2008-01-29 09:45AM | 0 recs
Re: It's not a disconnect

All valid points, but the Super Tuesday states are going to have a lot more in common with Florida than with South Carolina because there's simply not enough time to do much campaigning.

If Obama got to spend 6 months campaigning and shaking every hand in each state like he did in Iowa, it's possible he would win every state.  But that's not how it works.

It will be really interesting to see how well he does at mobilizing the new voters with less time to set up a full-blown GOTV program from scratch.

by Steve M 2008-01-29 10:54AM | 0 recs
Re: It's not a disconnect

name recognition?

Obama is at 96% name ID now, in the latest polling.  That means only 4% don't have some sort of opinion already on him.

Clinton is at 99% name ID.

That extra 3% ain't gonna get it for him if he ain't already got it.

by Jerome Armstrong 2008-01-29 12:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Really, it's a no-sweat primary

If she wins by 20+ and I don't think she will btw, it means she's a shoo in for every single ST contest. This is expectations bs from an Obamanaut. If she breaks 50% it's a very clear signal her coalition is holding together but she's still got work to do to hold onto it.    

by ottovbvs 2008-01-29 10:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

I predict:
McCain 37
Romney 34

I don't predict non contests like the democrats beauty pagent. It won't mean anything except to the Clinton supporter's on this site.

by BDM 2008-01-29 07:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

It will quite obviously show us whether there is any bounce for Obama out of SC.  How could it not?  What, Floridians are innoculated from bounces out of other states, don't respond to "momentum"?  If anything, an Obama bounce would show up here stronger than elsewhere, with Clinton not having the chance to shake every available hand in the state to blunt Obamamentum.

Coverage of this contest (easily the largest amount of Democrats voting here than in all previous contests combined) will be there, Clinton will talk to supporters (no doubt covered by the media) and there will most likely be momentum for her going into Feb. 5, whether you acknowledge it or not.  

Hey, don't acknowledge it.  It matters little.  Feb. 5 results will be what they are going to be any which way.  

by georgep 2008-01-29 07:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Hillary 58%
Obama 30%
Edwards 12%

Romney 36%
McCain 30%
Giuliani 20%
Huckabee 9%
Paul 5%

by sepulvedaj3 2008-01-29 07:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Hillary   0
Obama     0
Edwards   0

Romney   32
McCain   31
Huckabee 17
Guiliani 16

by jgkojak 2008-01-29 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Clinton 52
Obama 36
Edwards 12

Romney 35
McCain 30
Giuliani 15
Huckabee 15
Paul 5

by conspiracy 2008-01-29 07:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Clinton 52
Obama 35
Edwards 13

Romney 35
McCain 32
Guiliani 17
Huckabee 12
Paul 4

by Denny Crane 2008-01-29 07:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Also, Rotten Rudy drops out soon after he tanks in Florida.

by Denny Crane 2008-01-29 07:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

I was watching CNN last night going on about how "The Kennedys" were backing Obama.  The subject then turned to the Democratic contest for Florida.   One of the analysts said both candidates were attempting to spin the election outcome there.  John King said something to the effect that Clinton could benefit if we decide to report it, then smirked, and made a comment that it was up to us as "journalists" to decide if the results would be important. The rest of the pundits laughed and agreed.

by wasabi 2008-01-29 07:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread
C: 58
O: 30
E: 10
by kristoph 2008-01-29 07:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

The "reporting" of it isn't the important thing really given the time frame we're in. It's going to get some coverage. If she wins big there it means all the polls on the other states and the nationals are more or less right. Despite the sainted Ted, The Miracle of SC, etc. it means they've made little or no difference and their shelf life is fading as we speak.  

by ottovbvs 2008-01-29 09:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

This touches on the point that Wasabi just made.  If the media winds blow a certain way, the Clinton effort to pump up Florida may well backfire.  If the story gets played as a sort of desperate attempt to declare victory on a largely unchallenged playing field, this could well morph into another Clinton-campaign-in-trouble story line, no matter what the numbers.  In turn, the Clintons will succeed to the extent that bloggers, posters, and pundits take FLA seriously and make it seem important.

by farmboy 2008-01-29 08:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

A SUSA Florida poll covering the two days after SC shows Hillary up by 24. I think Hillary played Florida smart, being the crusader for the voter there almost. Check out the internals they're pretty interesting. Acording to the poll Hillary wins men by a margin of only 1 point less than she wins women.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollRepo rt.aspx?g=d485467e-dde3-4a5d-9999-4bbe9d ac800a

by Christopher Lib 2008-01-29 08:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Conservative?

"Conservative" Dems DO exist, especially in the South.

by NJIndependent 2008-01-29 08:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

FLa

Clinton 55%
Obama   36%
Edwards 14%

McCain 33.1%
Romney 33%
Huck   12.9%
Rudy   12%
Paul    6%
Other   2%

Dead Fred banked some votes

by Judeling 2008-01-29 08:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

105% voting?  Now, that will be a trick even in Florida! :&)

by Drummond 2008-01-29 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Here are my predictions.

Romney wins by a hair.  There were over a million absentee and early voters in Florida, and my guess is that they peaked during the time Romney was ahead in the polls.  McCain second, and Ron Paul beats 9iu11iani again.  This is the de facto end of Huckabee.

In the Democratic race, Hillary wins.  In fact, after getting Maxine Waters, if she can sew up the Latino vote by either keeping Richardson from endorsing anyone or getting his endorsement, she will run the table in the west, including California, and will get way out in front of Obama.

Edwards will get single digits and he will maybe not drop out, but will stop campaigning after 2/5.

by attorney at arms 2008-01-29 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

On the Republican side, I predict Romney will get 100% of the delegates and McCain will get 0% of the delegates.

On the Democratic side I predict a tie.  Neither Obama nor Clinton nor Edwards will get any delegates.

by pontificator 2008-01-29 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Why are the votes of people so trivial to people just because they don't lead to delegates.

I would give my pinky finger to have had about 600 votes in Florida count differently than they did a few years back.

It's pretty disgusting that the Democratic party is playing this game with people in two very important states.  If it was to Obama's benefit, we'd be hearing how the Clinton's engineered this by sacrificing babies.

by attorney at arms 2008-01-29 09:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

So, you think Howard Dean is disgusting?  Duly noted.

by pontificator 2008-01-29 01:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Roughly

Clinton 55%
Obama   35%
Edwards 10%

And on the Republican side, McCain edges out Romney.  Giuliani gets just over 20 percent, proclaims it a vindication, and withdraws from the race.

by Drummond 2008-01-29 08:23AM | 0 recs
Re: the update

Isn't that the way all - or at least most of these supposedly "closed primaries" work?

I.e., here in Illinois - I guess we have a 'closed primary' --- but that basically means to vote in the Democratic primary you must ask for a Democratic ballot!

Hey, maybe I'm an idiot --- and there are bunches of states out there that make you show your super secret official Democratic party card -- but that's what always puzzled me about the whole "YOU'LL SEE - CLOSED PRIMARIES COMING UP!!!" post.

Am I wrong?   Accepting that caucus states are another matter -- aren't most 'closed primaries' actually just a matter of 'must ask for a Democratic ballot' primaries?

by zonk 2008-01-29 08:24AM | 0 recs
Re: the update

In NJ, you have to be registered as a member of the party to vote in the primary.  HOWEVER, you are not required to register with a party when you register to vote AND if you are not already registered with a party, you can come to the primary and declare your party affiliation there.  Since NJ has never had a meaningful Presidential primary (at least in my voting lifetime) until this year, there are going to be a TON of people (myself included) who are going to come to the polls on primary day, declare a party and vote in the primary.  I don't know about other states, but NJ is going to act more like an open primary than a closed primary despite technically being "closed".

by NJIndependent 2008-01-29 08:37AM | 0 recs
I see

So this is the hubbub about the whole "closed primary" thing?

I guess I feel a little sheepish... a few weeks back when various posters were tossing about the whole 'closed primary' thing, I guess I was suspecting it was more than a "declare at the door" committal.

I suppose this is a good lesson in "always ask questions".

Any info on what the responsibilities of the poll workers are?  I.e., do they have to explain the meaning of the process, so to speak?  Here in IL - I've always just smiled and said "Democratic, what else!" when asked which ballot I wanted.  

Since I'm planning to early vote tonight, I think I might play dumb just to see what the response is... not looking to give anyone a hard time - just wondering exactly what this would mean to a real independent.

by zonk 2008-01-29 08:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Closed Primaries; non-partisan ballot

In Ohio primary elections, one must declare a party affiliation to vote for a candidate in a primary.

However, there are often issues to be voted on at the same election and one can choose to request a non-partisan ballot and just vote on the issues.

It's my understanding that there is an issue on today's FL ballot, and one should be able to vote on that issue without declaring a party, i.e., staying independent.  If FL doesn't have that option, or FL does have the option but the election officials didn't give the individual to vote just on the issue(s), shame on them. However, we all know that FL's voting systems are messed up (Katherine Harris, et al.)

by susie 2008-01-29 09:29AM | 0 recs
Re: I see

Unfortunately, the devil is in the details, and those are just NJ's rules.  And, in fact, not even all of NJ's rules.  By law in NJ, if you ARE registered with a party and want to CHANGE to vote in the other primary, you have to change your party affiliation like 3 months in advance.  So, this is really like a one-time deal for all ofthe unaffiliated NJ voters to come and register with a party and vote.  If I choose to vote in the Dem primary this year (which is like a 99% near certainty now that it is a race), but I was more interested in the GOP primary race in 2012, then I would have tomake that decision at least 3 months before the primary instead of that day.  So, after this year, NJ will be like any other CLOSED primary.  It is just this one time that it will be more like an open primary.

by NJIndependent 2008-01-29 09:47AM | 0 recs
Re: the update

I'm in Florida and the way it has always worked with me (and today was no exception) is the first person checks the voter rolls for you and asks your name and address (they verify it is the same). They also look at your id. You sign on the rolls next to your name and they had you a slip of paper. You give that paper to the next person who has you sign for your ballot which they give you.

At no point have I ever been asked my party affiliation. Ever. And I never use my voter id so they aren't getting it there.

In Florida only Dems vote for the Dem nominees and Repubs for the Repub nominees. Independents only vote on other ballot issues.

by Step Beyond 2008-01-29 11:47AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

GOP:

Popular vote:
Romney 34.2
McCain 34.2
Huckabee 16.3
Giuliani 9.7
Paul 5.2
Thompson (early votes) 0.4

Delegates:
Romney 100% (awarded by Supreme Court during middle of recount)

Dem:

Popular vote:
Clinton 58.3
Obama 28.5
Edwards 11.4
Gravel 1.4  <= Lots of senile, crotchety old people there - his base
Field (early vote) 0.4

Delegates:
None awarded.

by NJIndependent 2008-01-29 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Dems

Clinton will be helped by her call for delegate recognition, retired New Yorkers, and the embrace of Obama by the Kennedy family (JFK is still hated in some Cuban quarters for his 'betrayal' during the Bay of Pigs fiasco).

Clinton - 61
Obama - 25
Edwards - 12

Reps

My head says McCain edges Romney, but it's very, very close.  Let's say:

McCain - 33
Romney - 31
Huckabee - 15
Guiliani - 12
Paul - 4

by BDB 2008-01-29 08:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

I don't disagree with your numbers (mine are nearly identical), but as far as the Cuban argument goes, those Cubans are not Democrats.

by NJIndependent 2008-01-29 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

McCain     34
Romney     32
Huckabee   16
Giuliani   14

Clinton    49
Obama      35
Edwards    14

by pcjnyc 2008-01-29 08:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Clinton 55%
Obama 38%
Edwards 7%

Romney 37
McCain 35
Huckabee 15
Giuliani 9
Paul 4

FL is major test of if the Clinton coalition is going to stand up in a large turnout in a demographically balanced state. If it does after all the press piling on this week over SC, Bill, Kennedy etc she's got clear sledding I'd say. If she breaks 50% it's looking good, the variance from that in either direction will bring either optimism or pessimism. Forget all the chatter and spin about beauty contests, seating, how the media treat it, that's all hoohey. It's a hell of an opinion poll.  

by ottovbvs 2008-01-29 08:59AM | 0 recs
Romney 34%, McCain 32%, Rudy 16%, Huck 16%

Paul 4%.

Rudy's number may come out better than recent polls suggest because of early voting.

Democratic beauty contest: (echoing enarjay) HRC 0 delegates, Obama 0 delegates, and Edwards 0 delegates.

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-01-29 08:59AM | 0 recs
Make Huck 14%

Numbers now add up :)

by NeuvoLiberal 2008-01-29 02:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Clinton 55
Obama 36
Edwards 9

(My prediction: Florida delegation becomes the ultimate kingmaker in Denver.)

Romney 36
McCain 34
Giuliani 16
Huckabee 14

by Sieglinde 2008-01-29 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

HRC- 62
O-   27
E-   11

Romney 33
McCain 31
Rudy-  17
Huck-  14
Paul-  5

Democratic delegates breakdown..

HRC- 0
O-   0
E-   0

Move on to the Feb 5 contests.

by hawkjt 2008-01-29 09:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

If the DNC doesn't rescind the Penalty placed on democratic voters here in Florida there is going to be a backlash.  I for one will change my party affiliation.  
What nerve the DNC has...they want our hard earned money but stab us in the back while helping us find the wallet we thought we lost...Do they think everyone down here is a Red Necked Republican or spaced out on Meth and toothless???

As for this Primary regulation about party affiliation voting that needs to be changed also...Whether Democrat, Independent or Republican we should be allowed to cross party lines...

Obviously, I'm sick of the "milk-toast" democrates who talk loud and haven't the muscle to stand up and be counted whenever the Republican machine rears its ugly head...

by duffydog 2008-01-29 09:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

The penalty will be recinded as soon as the eventual nominee clinches the selection (without FL or MI).  NOT before.

by NJIndependent 2008-01-29 09:41AM | 0 recs
The sin that may not speak its name.

Another interesting sidelight on the FL numbers, if he gets his 80% black vote but shows much weaker performance than previously among whites and hispanics it would appear the Clintons race baiting paid off. Not that I think they did for one minute.

by ottovbvs 2008-01-29 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: The sin that may not speak its name.

People keep spinning it as though he got killed among whites in SC. He didn't do that bad... and would have done much better without Edwards in the race.

by JDF 2008-01-29 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: The sin that may not speak its name.

He did do bad. If you do the math, 20% of the people that voted for Obama were white. 80% were black. Compare that to Clinton where 40% were black and 60% white. Edwards, 6% black, 94% white.

by RJEvans 2008-01-29 09:26AM | 0 recs
Re: The sin that may not speak its name.

Its is not the percentage of his voters that matter. It is the percentage of white voters he received. You are choosing the lower number because it sounds worse.

Like it or not race matters in this country to this day, it shouldn't but it does. I think if you put a black democrat and 2 white democrats up in a room more white people are going to vote for the two white democrats. But if you put a Republican and Democrat up I am sure that it isn't going to matter what color the Democrat is- the Democrats are going to vote for him.

I also believe that if you take Edwards out of the race Obama gets closer to 40% of the white vote, I have no numbers to prove this- it is just a gut feeling I have.

by JDF 2008-01-29 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: The sin that may not speak its name.

That's the difference between you an mean. I use facts.

by RJEvans 2008-01-29 01:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

I will go out on a limb here.

I think Obama will do much better that we expect.

Bill has become somewhat unpopular and Hillary has shown she does not control Bill.

by lja 2008-01-29 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

FL

Hillary 48% and 0 delegates
Obama 42% and still 0 delegates
Edwards 10% and he should really drop out before making himself irrelevant (I say this as a person who loves the guy and wants to see him have a future in the democratic party.)

by JDF 2008-01-29 09:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

I find it really disturbing that Democrats are saying F U to Florida. 1 million people are going to vote. How can you just say you don't matter? It's insanity. Knowing the media, they have bought into that insanity.

by RJEvans 2008-01-29 09:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

GOP:
Romney 42
McCain 40
Huck 12
Guiliani 4
Other 2

Dem: Florida doesn't count. Doesn't matter.

by MNPundit 2008-01-29 09:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Law

Independents are not allowed to vote in Florida's primary--at all. To allow them to do so is voting fraud.

In Florida, when you REGISTER, you must specify a party. If you are not REGISTERED with either the Republican or Democratic Party 30 days before the election, you do NOT get to vote at all.

That voting poll person just broke the law allowing an independent to vote.

There's a 29 day deadline prior to any election to register.

Somebody fucked up bigtime.

by Tennessean 2008-01-29 09:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Romney 36
McCain 35
Huckabee 14
Giuliani 10
Paul 4

Clinton  57
Obama 34
Edwards 9

by InigoMontoya 2008-01-29 09:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

Dont know how many others are as incensed as I am about these chain emails being sent to religious groups and others that question Sen. Barack Obamas patriotism and religious beliefs. (See press link to last weeks open letter from Jewish groups being bombarded with these emails: http://www.adl.org/internet/Letter_obama .asp)

The use of the Internet to spread false information about a political candidate--- and thus to affect the outcome of an election--- is particularly abhorrent to me.

We cannot regress to old-style dirty tricks. In the public interest, we need to get behind these emails---and identify who originated them.

If you have received such an email, please forward it to me.

negemail53@gmail.com

by negemail53 2008-01-29 10:08AM | 0 recs
In the race

that really matters to Floridians:

The tax initiative will fail.

McCain 39, Romney 32, Guiliani 15, Huckabee 9, rest scattered.

People really don't understand what the Florida race for the Gov nomination meant in '06.  

In the other race, Clinton 58, Obama 30, Edwards 10, rest scattered.

The delegates will definately get seated (Democrats aren't THAT suicidal) but there will be little national reaction to the vote.

by fladem 2008-01-29 10:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

If it wasn't for the early voting, I'd pick Romney, but he'd really have to clean up today to make up that deficit.

I'm thinking:

McCain - 35
Romney - 32
Giuliani - 16
Huckabee - 11
Paul - 4
Thompson - 2

and on the Democratic side, these delegates may get seated, but only if there is a clear winner by the convention.  No way these delegates get to weigh in on the nominee unless its a coronation in Colorado.

Clinton - 47
Obama - 38
Edwards - 15

by gophakilla 2008-01-29 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

I think you're wrong. There's clearly a way these delegates (as well as the Michigan ones) COULD help nominate Hillary and be decisive. Assuming Hillary wins Florida big (and your 9 point win would be astonishing and a huge plus for Obama ... I'm thinking more like 15-18 points) the media could -- and I emphasize could -- report those delegates and the Michigan delegates as hers. You throw in a big chunk of California, New York, New Jersey, and so forth on Super Duper Tuesday, and it will be POSSIBLE for the media to declare Hillary all but crowned. I mean, the numbers COULD be spun that way. And you know the media will want to, because that would be a big story. And then before you know it, we'd all be resigning ourselves to Hillary winning, and she'd start winning later primaries because she's the "presumptive" nominee. And there you go. I don't think this is at all an unlikely scenario. Obama and his very naive advisors made a very crucial error in accepting the Michigan and Florida boycotts. Hillary could afford to, since she knew she would win both if neither campaigned (better name ID). Obama could not. Those two decisions could easily decide this race.

by ColoradoGuy 2008-01-29 01:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Florida Prediction Thread

If Hillary wins big, the media spin will be that it doesn't count because its only a beauty contest. But if Obama were to do much better than expected, all of a sudden it will assume great importance.

by vdeputy 2008-01-29 02:18PM | 0 recs

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