The floodgates open in Florida?

Florida becomes more important (these are also airing in Michigan, a little after the fact)- the Clinton PR:

Statement By The Clinton Campaign On Senator Obama's Violation Of The Early State Pledge

The Obama campaign today began airing paid television advertisements in a national cable buy that include advertising in the state of Florida.  There is no question that these ads are a clear and blatant violation of the early-state pledge that Senator Obama and the other leading Democratic candidates signed last year.

The early state pledge was crystal clear in its prohibition against any kind of campaign activity (outside of fundraising) in states that do not adhere to the DNC calendar.  There is no ambiguity.  Among the list of prohibited activities are "electronic advertising that reaches a significant percentage of the voters in the aforementioned state." (According to Nielsen, there are 6,6 million TV households in Florida that receive CNN through either local cable systems or satellite dishes.  This represents 92% of all Florida TV households.)  The Obama campaign knows this, but has chosen to violate the pledge regardless.

Just last week the Obama campaign snubbed the people of Florida in a memo that stated that Florida did not matter in the nominating process.  After consecutive losses in New Hampshire, Michigan and Nevada, they appear to be changing course.

Senator Obama's flagrant disregard for the pledge that he signed is disturbing and calls the integrity of the pledge into question.

That last line there seems to signal that the Clinton campaign will respond in Florida as well. Any word from the DNC on this?

Update [2008-1-21 15:54:39 by Jerome Armstrong]:: Clinton's team just announced an upcoming conference call with Cong. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (FL), among others. I'm pretty sure the Clinton campaign not wait long to pounce on making this a firm commitment to Florida counting.

Big Unanswered Questions: Anyone think this was an oversight by the Obama campaign? Can Obama just blame David Axelrod? How much of a commission will Axelrod gain from running ads in a state that doesn't matter?

Tags: 2008 election (all tags)

Comments

103 Comments

Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

This seems to be kinda a stretch. My guess is that it is just cheaper to do a national ad buy than to buy state-by-state. I doubt this will get much traction.

by Obama08 2008-01-21 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Hi Obama08,

Just wanted to say it's good to see you posting here again (or maybe you never left).

by OrangeFur 2008-01-21 11:07AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

I read, and sometimes post here. But mostly I don't because some of those here piss me off too much.

by Obama08 2008-01-21 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

if the national ad buy includes florida, then this is in violation of party rules.  besides, he could have waited a week or two before purchasing ads that would air nationally.  because this is a willful violation of the pledge, i believe it will gain traction.

by truthteller2007 2008-01-21 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Cable buys don't really work that way. It's a pretty simple matter to say "I want this ad to run everywhere but here, here and here."  My company has done that many, many times.  It's one of the true advantages of cable advertising - the ability to target anyone you like.

by Denny Crane 2008-01-21 12:28PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?
Exactly, Obama certainly could have stopped them from running the ad in Florida. Anyone who has ever bought national media knows that.
by americanincanada 2008-01-21 12:45PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Apparently not. The Obama campaign asked both CNN and MSNBC and both said that they could not do everywhere but Florida. Apparently CNN and MSNBC didn't now that.

by Obama08 2008-01-21 01:17PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?
Have CNN and MSNBC said that they willfully helped a candidate violate the SNC rules? Or are you just going on the word of the Obama campaign? Both of those cable networks are aware of the agreement the candidates signed.
by americanincanada 2008-01-21 02:12PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

agreed. package deal versus individually. seems like the clinton campaign is just using this as an excuse rather than something that is a significant effort to campaign in the state.

by bruh21 2008-01-21 12:43PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

I assume everyone is looking for an excuse to compete in Florida, now that 3 of the 4 early states are over with.  This might just supply the pretext.

I have no idea if Obama's ad buy is a technical violation of the pledge (it depends on the DNC's definition of campaigning, and the meaning of "is"), but doesn't it seem a bit silly that an agreement not to campaign in two specific states would turn into a ban on all forms of national advertising?

Let's just scrap the stupid pledge and start campaigning in Florida already.  That state needs to hear from Democrats because we're going to want it in the GE.

by Steve M 2008-01-21 10:51AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

I think this is probably about right.

by HSTruman 2008-01-21 10:53AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

I also think, by the way, that over the last week Clinton has been signaling an intention to put a whole lot of pressure on the other candidates to agree to seat Florida's delegates.  Who knows how that will turn out, but it's underway.

A lot of us took issue with Jerome's prediction that MI and FL would be seated on the grounds that if those two states actually made a difference, there's no way the DNC would agree to change the result (effectively taking the nomination from Obama) by giving those two states their delegates back.  But among other things, I've realized that it doesn't necessarily have to remain an open issue from now until the convention.  One thing Hillary can do is try to force Obama to commit to seating those delegates or else face bad PR, right here and now.

by Steve M 2008-01-21 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

That's a possibility I suppose, although I'm not sure that simply saying "That's an issue for the DNC to decide" wouldn't work at this point.  Especially if the candidates all end up campaigning in Florida, I don't think the issue of delegates being seated will be the primary story.  

Who knows, we will have to see how this plays out.  

by HSTruman 2008-01-21 11:02AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

He is already getting terrible PR.  He got the endorsement of the largest paper in Florida (the St. Pete Times), but in their endorsement they said this was IN SPITE of Obama slamming Florida, and they didn't think they should withhold their endorsement just because his campaign had slapped Florida across the face with their strategy memo last week.

I will say it again:

If the Democrats want to win in 2008 there is NO OPTION except to seat the delegates EARLY and make this change loud and clear.  The whole notion of "punishing" states or of helping one candidate over another is ridiculous compared to the risk of alienating Michigan, and especially, Florida voters.

by rcipw 2008-01-21 11:06AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

The delegates from these states should absolutely NOT be seated. Otherwise rules become completely irrelevant. There is a lot wrong with the nominating process... that being said the rules should be adhered to otherwise we wind up with utter chaos.

by JDF 2008-01-21 11:11AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

If the delegates are not seated the Dems will lose Florida and probably even Michigan.

Is it honestly your position that the DNC rules are more important than winning the White House?

by rcipw 2008-01-21 11:13AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

I highly doubt that's the case, especially in MI.  They could easily lose FL regardless.  Hillary probably plays best in FL of the Dems, and if she is fighting to seat the delegates, even if she loses the fight, she won't lose credibility over it in the state.  

by NJIndependent 2008-01-21 11:19AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

There is a huge amount of anger and resentment for the DNC and the candidates in every layer of the party structures in these states from federal elected officials to party activists to the media.  I hope you are right.

by rcipw 2008-01-21 11:22AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

It will be smoothed over with the voters after the primary is over. And the party infrastructure in either state will work hard to get our nominee elected. There might be some left over anger but they still want to win, and if anything should want to get back in the good graces of the party.

by JDF 2008-01-21 11:33AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

So, who does this end up hurting, in terms of undermining authority, the DNC?

by Marsha1 2008-01-21 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

I think the internal dynamics of DNC rules and authority is a tiny issue compared to disenfranchising millions of voters (or letting them feel that way).  I think this hurts the eventual Dem nominee.

I also think the DNC and all the campaigns know this and it is the worst kept secret in Washington that the delegates WILL be seated.

by rcipw 2008-01-21 11:41AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Exactly. And possibly as bad as disenfranchising millions of voters is the discouragement I see as an RA at Florida State trying to get my residents hyped up about voting. None of my Democrats are interested because they know that their votes won't count. I fear that this demoralization could carry on through the general as Florida's youth are forced to sit out of one of the most exciting primaries that they will see for a long time.

by nibit25 2008-01-21 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Are you saying the Democratic nominee will lose Florida and maybe Michigan in the general election, because of the delegate issue? Democrats will stay home or vote Republican in protest? I think that's a huge stretch.

In any case, the strong likelihood is that the delegates will eventually be seated, it's just that their numbers might not be counted in the total that puts the nominee over the top.

by along 2008-01-21 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Am I saying Dems will stay home or vote for the Republican?  Kind of. I think there is tremendous anger and resentment at the activist level because of this so some may stay home.  But both Michigan and Florida depend on independents breaking our way big time to win in a Presidential general election.  

Am I saying we risk losing both? Yes, I am saying that.  I think this issue is tailor made for the Republicans to use against the Dem nominee about how they don't care about these states.  It is insider baseball now but it will be amplified by the huge right wing echo chamber.  The DNC is cutting it's nose off to spite its face.

Like I said, I hope I am wrong, and I am probably being dramatic but I think this will be used against us to possibly terrible effect.

by rcipw 2008-01-21 11:31AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Uh, yeah, Democrats, and especially Democrats in Florida, are particularly sensitive about their votes counting.

There is some history in Florida you may want to familiarize yourself with. Being disenfranchised twice would demoralize Democratic voters there.

by souvarine 2008-01-21 11:31AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Exactly.  The Dems are playing with fire and playing into the Republicans hands.

by rcipw 2008-01-21 11:34AM | 0 recs
you might think...

as someone actually from florida, and who talks to florida democrats frequently, this isn't being raised as a concern.  hell, i hear a lot more about the email going around the state about obama's ties to his ucc church in chicago than i do about the seating of delegates.

most democrats in florida understand that the republican legislature pushed up the date to violate the dnc guidelines and use it as a wedge.  and they aren't buying it.  they don't blame the dnc, they blame tallahassee.

the other thing i see is that i wouldn't be banking on florida, no matter who's the nominee.  the clintons, especially, have tried to hack florida's politics for a decade, and haven't had much luck.  aside from alex, i'd say they've had no luck.  ohio has been a much better target for democrats for years -- not that i don't want democrats to compete in florida.  i just wouldn't build my strategy around it.  make republicans defend florida, but don't count on it to win the white house...

by bored now 2008-01-21 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: you might think...

Yeah, we should all bank on Hope's George and MS strategy to get to the white house... LOL...

by prisonbreak 2008-01-21 11:56AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

As a form of Civil Disobedience, I wish New York State had moved the Primary up at least one day. It is completely abhorrent to me that Iowa and New Hampshire get to vote before we do in New York. It makes us into second class citizens. I don't blame Florida and Michigan.

Bad rules are made to be broken.

by maxstar 2008-01-21 11:49AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Bad rules are made to be broken.

And let me remind you that those 'bad rules' were agreed to by all DNC members, including Florida and Michigan.  Nobody objected at the time so it's a little late now.

by KimPossible 2008-01-21 12:06PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

...and New Hampshire, which proceeded to break them without any sanction whatsoever from the DNC, thus creating this domino effect that we're in the midst of now.

by Steve M 2008-01-21 12:11PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Wrong.  Quite a few people objected "at that time", among them was Carl Levin.

by Denny Crane 2008-01-21 12:32PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

And Bill Nelson who actually took the decision to court.

by nibit25 2008-01-21 12:36PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

agree that is pretext by the clinton campaign , but disagree that FL should be allowed to include their delegates.

by bruh21 2008-01-21 12:44PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

ps

disagree because this gaming of the system whether it favors one candidate or another shouldn't be allowed for future cycles. if people want to change things they need to do it well in advance so that there is an orderly process rather than one that allows money and/or momentary popularity to dictate. next time if one has a problem with NV for example they can address it early on rather than waiting weeks before hand, and if one wants to challenge first in the nation like NH they can lobby to do so rather than forcing it at the last minute.

by bruh21 2008-01-21 12:46PM | 0 recs
So much for FL didn't matter.

It was always going to matter. I'll be interested to see how Obama handles this. If he thinks his chances are zip he'll try to pass it off as Clinton spin but it's opened the door for her to campaign which in all honesty I believe they intended to all along.  

by ottovbvs 2008-01-21 10:56AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

If Obama is going to cheat on the pledge then the Clinton camp must get a committment that the delegates count.

by lori 2008-01-21 10:57AM | 0 recs
It wasn't an oversight....

Obama spokesman Bill Burton says the campaign asked the cable channels whether they could prevent the ad from airing in Florida, but were told that was impossible.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 108/Welcome_Florida.html

by Obama08 2008-01-21 10:57AM | 0 recs
Re: It wasn't an oversight....

then cancel the ad buy.

by truthteller2007 2008-01-21 11:06AM | 0 recs
Re: It wasn't an oversight....

I wouldn't write SC off if I were Clinton.  It's pretty much of a win-win situation:  if she wins or keeps it close, it's unexpected; if she loses by more than 5 points then, hey, it was always expected.  I think she loses narrowly, e.g., 3-6 points, fwiw.

by InigoMontoya 2008-01-21 12:07PM | 0 recs
Re: It wasn't an oversight....

I don't think my local furniture store, which advertises on cable in Massachusetts, is running their ads on CNN in Florida.

by hwc 2008-01-21 12:33PM | 0 recs
Re: It wasn't an oversight....

well thats really stupid.

by bruh21 2008-01-21 12:47PM | 0 recs
Re: It wasn't an oversight....

That seems like nonsense to me, unless it was just too late to change it.  I know for a fact that geographical areas can be omitted from cable ad buys.

by Denny Crane 2008-01-21 12:33PM | 0 recs
He had two options

1. Make a national ad buy that violates the pledge
2. Make several indiviual local ad buys that do not violate the pledge.

I guess it's OK to break your word to save some money.

by DaveOinSF 2008-01-21 01:54PM | 0 recs
Hell of a stretch by the Clinton campaign
I question whether it works to make Florida matter.
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-21 10:58AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

I think you will see all (both?) candidates campaigning there by the time of the FL primary.

One big question is if the pledge is still operative after all the "early" contests (IA, NH, NV, and SC) are over with.  Once they are done with SC next week then there are at least a few days for GOTV.

I speculated earlier this month that a momentum-deprived Obama would campaign in Florida, either by breaking the pledge outright or by stretching its limits, such as a national TV buy (which I think is a blatant violation) or doing large-scale GOTV rally/fundraisers that could attract big crowds and earned media while still technically being ok because of the pledge's fundraising exemption.

Honestly, what option does Obama have?  What is his February 5 strategy except to still rely on momentum?

by rcipw 2008-01-21 11:00AM | 0 recs
I assume Obama wants to advertise

in the 22 February 5 states. Running ads on CNN seems like a reasonable way to reach politically-aware people in those states.

That ads will also run on CNN in Florida is probably not the main thinking behind the ad buy.

by desmoinesdem 2008-01-21 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: I assume Obama wants to advertise

It is still campaigning in Florida and opens the "flood gates" as Jerome aptly called it.

Maybe there wasn't another option but I wonder how much Obama can compete in Florida and it seemed to me his only hope was to try to keep it off the table.  Can he really invest the time and major resources into the state in order to keep it competitive and still make the most of Feb. 5?

If both campaigns are running full steam in Florida it will quash any and all momentum coming out of South Carolina.  And even if Obama pulls back, there is probably enough there for Clinton to claim Obama broke the rule first and get major mo' from winning Florida.

by rcipw 2008-01-21 11:10AM | 0 recs
Re: I assume Obama wants to advertise

What prevented him from making 22 individual ad buys?

by DaveOinSF 2008-01-21 01:56PM | 0 recs
Jerome

When are you going to do something about the increasingly racist venom that is destroying your once wonderful site?  

http://gobacktotexas.mydd.com/story/2008 /1/21/125812/345

http://gobacktotexas.mydd.com/story/2008 /1/21/15941/0872

http://gobacktotexas.mydd.com/story/2008 /1/21/151747/305

By the way, I troll-rated a couple people who were referring to me and others as sexist merely because we did not support Hillary Clinton and I lost my trusted user status.  

by gobacktotexas 2008-01-21 11:03AM | 0 recs
Write about Reagan again,

or how he is really concerned about Obama's signs saying "hope"

by labor nrrd 2008-01-21 11:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Write about Reagan again,

Have you looked at the diaries in question?  This isn't about a preferred candidate, there is seriously sick stuff getting posted today.  

by HSTruman 2008-01-21 11:13AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Any media consultant would know if an ad would air in the florida media market.  because this is not a mistake, i believe it is obama's attempt to create yet another meaningless distraction during this campaign.  besides, his surrogates essentially campaigned for him in michigan with their uncommitted drive.

by truthteller2007 2008-01-21 11:05AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Wow, they are really stretching the truth.

They're running national ads because it's cheaper to run national ads than targeted ad buys in 22 different states.

He's not buying ads in Florida, Jerome. Don't buy the spin.

by Dave Sund 2008-01-21 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

a national ad buy by definition includes the state of florida.  

by truthteller2007 2008-01-21 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

You honestly think he's making this ad buy to campaign in Florida? Get over yourself.

by Dave Sund 2008-01-21 11:12AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

No, I do not, but a media consultant should understand that a national ad buy entails violating a pledge the campaigns made when florida violated dnc rules.  is this too difficult to comprehend?  

by truthteller2007 2008-01-21 11:14AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

No it doesn't actually.  This is clear to anyone with some common sense, a trait the Clintons apparently lack.

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-21 02:56PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Yes.  Not wholly but in part, he is.

by David Kowalski 2008-01-21 12:20PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

So, if it is inconvenient to follow the rules, then they can be ignored?  Sounds like a Repub, all right!

by demmonty 2008-01-21 12:08PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Know what we should be talking about? The strategy of running a national ad buy rather than targeted ad buys in "swing" states. Smart. But let's play "gotcha" instead.

by Dave Sund 2008-01-21 11:13AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

but it entails violating the pledge all the campaigns made after florida violated dnc  rules.  and obama's press releases in the wake of michigan bespoke an intention to adhere to the stipulations of the pledge he and others made.  

I quote:

TO:      Interested Parties

FR:       The Obama Campaign

RE:       Michigan Democratic Presidential Primary

Because Michigan violated DNC rules by placing its Presidential Primary on January15th, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee ruled that the Michigan Democratic Party could not use the results of the January 15 Presidential Primary to allocate delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention. In other words, no delegates are at stake today in the Michigan Democratic Primary.

All of the Democratic presidential candidates publicly pledged not to campaign in Michigan, none have visited the state, opened offices, hired staff or communicated with voters through television, mail, phones or otherwise.  In addition, four Democratic presidential candidates, Obama, Edwards, Richardson and Biden withdrew their names from the Primary ballot in order to avoid participating in the Michigan Primary.  Clinton did not withdraw her name even though she publicly committed to not participate in the Primary. Clinton, Dodd, Gravel and Kucinich are the only candidates on the ballot today. The Obama Campaign is not participating in the Primary and has not instructed supporters in Michigan whether or how to vote.

Therefore the results of the primary tonight have no bearing on the Democratic nomination contest.

Florida, whose primary was scheduled for January 29th, is just like Michigan - the DNC applied full sanctions for setting an early primary date and there are no delegates are at stake.  As with Michigan, all of the Democratic presidential candidates signed a pledge to not campaign in Florida. Although Senator Obama did not remove his name from the Florida Primary ballot because Florida law did not allow him to do so, Senator Obama is firm in his commitment to neither participate nor campaign in the Florida Primary and its outcome has no bearing on the nomination contest. We raise Florida today because Senator Clinton has scheduled a fundraiser in Florida on Jan. 27th, and there are signs - despite Senator Clinton's public pledge to the contrary - that she may be planning to campaign in the state - inquiring about large venues and increased organizing activity - ahead of the Florida primary.

Our position and the position of the DNC is clear - neither the Florida nor Michigan primaries are playing any role in deciding the Democratic nominee and we are not campaigning in either state.

One would expect his media consultants to be a bit more fastidious in their ad buys given the scurrilous tone of the memo they disseminated in the wake of their loss in Michigan.

by truthteller2007 2008-01-21 11:17AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

There's absolutely nothing scurrilous--i.e.: coarse, vulgar, obscene, abusive, slanderous--about that Obama memo.

by along 2008-01-21 11:34AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

"signs that she may be campaigning in the state" implies that she has no moral compass, as his campaign is intimating that she is willfully violating the pledge.

by truthteller2007 2008-01-21 11:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary campaingning in Fl

That is a rumor reported in the paper. NO PROOF!

by del 2008-01-21 11:46AM | 0 recs
voting to invade iraq implied she had no moral...

compass.  this isn't even close...

by bored now 2008-01-21 11:54AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

It says that "there are signs...that she may be planning to campaign in the state."

Not "signs that she may be campaigning in the state".

Furthermore, I believe the memo is implying that IF SHE WERE to campaign in the state, then her ETHICS would be in question, not her morals.

I also believe that this national ad buy raises question of Obama's OWN ethics.

But none of it has any scurrilous tinge whatsoever.

by along 2008-01-21 11:56AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

That sounds like a distinction without a difference to me, but feel free to parse as you like.

by Denny Crane 2008-01-21 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

I didn't parse it. I quoted it.

by along 2008-01-21 01:15PM | 0 recs
Obama is such a poser

This is yet another rookie gaffe by Team Obama.  His actions never line up with his words.  This is a simple fact.

by Berkeley Vox 2008-01-21 11:27AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Nice to see that the Clintonites are still so scared of Obama that they are spinning a national cable TV station airtime buy as a Florida cable TV station airtime buy.

Desperation.  Stretch.  Attack.  Smear.  Rinse. Repeart.

ROVE.

by Doug in Virginia 2008-01-21 11:32AM | 0 recs
Well, Obama violated the rules, is why.

Read the rules.  Obama violated them, clear and simple.  It's yet another rookie gaffe by the Obama campaign, which simply isn't ready for prime time.  

by Berkeley Vox 2008-01-21 11:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Well, Obama violated the rules, is why.

No He didn't.  Anyone reading the pledge will tell you Clinton is full of shit.  

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-21 02:52PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

I really like Howard Dean, a lot.

I hope this doesn't blow back, as he is an integral part of advancing a government of the people, by the people.

by Marsha1 2008-01-21 11:41AM | 0 recs
i wouldn't blame howard...

he is the voice of the members of the dnc, who seem rather united on this.  there's a lot more angst about the early primary schedule than about florida's lost delegates...

by bored now 2008-01-21 11:55AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Very ROVE.  Yeah, SHE can change the country...  She can't admit she is wrong like BUSH.  She LIES like BUSH.  AND SHE CAMPAIGNS LIKE BUSH.  

We don't need a GOPer, we have Hillary.  FUCK YA I am pissed off.  This is th slimiest piece of bullshit I have ever seen.  I have zero respect for Hillary or Bill right now.  None.  

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-21 02:55PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Wow, I haven't been to MyDD in a while and didn't realize it had become anti-Obama HQ.

I suppose this sort of divisiveness is an unfortunate side effect of people-powered democracy.

by Grebby 2008-01-21 11:37AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Wow, jerome saying axelrod is ripping off obama again. jerome saying obama's camp screwed up again... what a shock!!

Try to go five minutes to without hammering Obama,jerome..you might respect yourself in the morning.

by hawkjt 2008-01-21 11:43AM | 0 recs
Florida: C 56, O 23, E12

Survey USA Florida Democratic Primary

Clinton 56
Obama 23
Edwards 12

by BigBoyBlue 2008-01-21 11:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Florida: C 56, O 23, E12

It will be pretty interesting to see how the polls move now that he is advertising there.

by del 2008-01-21 11:47AM | 0 recs
Here's Another Update

I don't know how this plays, so don't scream at me, but the Politico story has updated to say the following:

"UPDATE: Though the Clinton campaign convened a conference call with several early-state supporters, Obama's claims the stamp of approval approval from the only early-state chair still in play, South Carolina's Carol Fowler.

"Both national cable networks told us it would be impossible for us to run advertising nationally that excluded only Florida. For that reason we consulted with the South Carolina Democratic Party Chair Carol Fowler who told us unequivocally she did not consider this to be in violation of pledge made to the early states," said Obama spokesman Bill Burton."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

by HSTruman 2008-01-21 11:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Here's Another Update

Oh, I guess I missed the part in the DNC rules that said, "unless Carol Fowler says differently."  I know nothing about Ms. Fowler, she may be a saint, but her opinion is meaningless on this issue.

by demmonty 2008-01-21 12:12PM | 0 recs
Heh
true enough. Shoudl have asked Howard Dean it seems.
by Big Tent Democrat 2008-01-21 12:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Here's Another Update
This post right here proves to me that Obama knew what he was doing and fully intended to violate the pledge. they took the time out to consult SC Democratic Chair before the buy to make sure it was ok with "the only early state still in play." The idea that he was not doing thisd to get around the DNC is bullshit. Why did he go right to SC and not to the DNC head? Why not consult the other candidates? As to them removing or not removing their names from the ballots...it was NOT REQUIRED of them by the DNC, that was something Obama's campaign organized with some of the other candidates once he realized MI was not his to win, so it would become meaningless and give no MO to Hillary. Take your head out of the sand people.
by americanincanada 2008-01-21 12:34PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?
I don't believe for a minute that the Obama campaign is using a national ad buy to bypass DNC rules. I also don't believe for a minute that the campaign wasn't aware that it would be spun that way. So he will get a little extra coverage.
The Clinton campaign by not ignoring it is using this to up the meaning of the Florida results. Whoever went first with a national buy was going to set up some of this. Both were going to go national after SC in any case.
My guess is that Obama is starting to see a slight decline in his inflated base support in SC He needed to start the Feb 5th campaign a bit early to firm up his support in those states.
by Judeling 2008-01-21 11:47AM | 0 recs
So Obama gains from FL campaign.

Judeling it would have helped him much more to go from SC win. You're spinning dear boy.

by ottovbvs 2008-01-21 11:56AM | 0 recs
I'm not trying to spin.
He is going for a SC win. It isn't an either or proposition. Moving a national ad buy up a week is simply what campaigns should do. I believe the campaign is focusing on SC and trends will show up there first. I also believe that the Obama campaign is starting to see a slight decline in its base. Hillary did have a lot of this base at one time and it would only be natural for some of it to return. I don't see this as Obama losing, more as the bases of both campaigns firming up.
I just think that this is the last baby-boom election, not the first post-boom one.
by Judeling 2008-01-21 12:29PM | 0 recs
This is Obama flub Clinton has pounced on.

Think about it for two minutes. Who benefits from a campaign in FL particularly if she loses as seems likely in SC. Hillary bless you Clinton. I'd say Obama's campaign made easy to do organizational slip up and it's allowed Clinton to put FL on map in a "legal" way. He's scum that Penn. Glad he's on her side.

Grow up Obamanauts. This is politics. You make a slip like bringing up racial issues, saying Reagan walked on water, etc etc and you get beaten up. This is a doozy. Because it not only validates FL but indirectly MI. She's sharp that Clinton girl.  

by ottovbvs 2008-01-21 11:54AM | 0 recs
Re: This is Obama flub Clinton has pounced on.

Yes, she is sharp.  

I made sure my mother, in Florida, went to early vote for her today (yes, they are open on MLK Day).  Later, my mother called and asked what this issue about Florida not counting was all about.  I think Floridians are starting to get irked by their second-class status, especially since it was the Repub-controlled state legislature that set the day.

by demmonty 2008-01-21 12:16PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Evidently Obama's campaign knew that the ads would run in Florida. So I don't think you can call this an oversight by his campaign.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton says the campaign asked the cable channels whether they could prevent the ad from airing in Florida, but were told that was impossible. politico

IMO, it was a dumb move by his campaign. I would think that the last thing that they would want is to open up Florida for Clinton.

by MOBlue 2008-01-21 11:57AM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

This is a really ridiculous manufactured controversy.  Common sense says that national ad buys are NOT campaigning in FL even if they are seen in FL.  It's clear that an integral part of Obama's strategy is national ad buys as part of his campaign for the 2/5 states and to raise his standing in national polls.  He needs momentum and he needs it fast.  He tried to see if those buys could be blacked out in FL, and when they could not, he still needs to go forward with his 2/5 strategy.  He is behind in the 2/5 states.  He can't wait to run national ads until after FL (in fact, I suspect that's what the uproar from the Clinton camp is really about - barring Obama from national ad buys until a week before 2/5 because of their potential impact on NON-FL states...).

If anything, Clinton should be allowed to buy national ad buys as well regardless of whther they are seen in FL or not.  Case closed.

by NJIndependent 2008-01-21 11:57AM | 0 recs
Gosh, no!

I hear Sen. Clinton appeared on MEET THE PRESS last week, and that show airs in Florida too!

by Adam B 2008-01-21 11:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Gosh, no!

As does "Good Morning America."

by demmonty 2008-01-21 12:17PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

I would like to underscore some of my fear about what will happen in the general election because voters in Michigan and Florida feel disenfranchised with some numbers.

I think people are far too glib about handing out punishment to these states for breaking the rules.

My fear of what the repercussions could be was underscored on the day of the Michigan primary.  Bucking the national trend, hundreds of thousands more Republicans voted in their primary than Democrats voted in theirs.

The high voter turn out for the early primaries and caucuses has been touted as a good sign for the general election across the nation.  The Nevada party even used it to show how "Democrats won."  I haven't seen totals from the Nevada Republicans yet but it is assumed to be far fewer than the over 100,000 Dems who caucused.

I agree with the speculation that this high Dem turnout will be good for our party.  It shows huge grassroots excitement about and investment in our candidates.  The poor Republican turn out does not bode well for them.

My first question is: do you agree that the higher Democratic turnout in these states shows Dems are poised to do well there in the fall?

My answer is yes and I think that is commonly shared.

Now look at these numbers:

Iowa Dems: 239,000
Iowa Reps: 119,000

NH Dems: 283,000
NH Reps: 141,000

NV Dems: 120,000?
NV Reps: Low low low low

MI Dems: 592,798
MI Reps: 843,242

I did the Michigan numbers myself so please forgive some addition errors.

That point aside, the Dems have been swamping the Republicans in turnout and voter excitement, except in Michigan.  In fact, the Dems have a 250,000 VOTE DEFICIT in Michigan.

While there will obviously be a long general election campaign to grow excitement for the nominee, I think this shows the huge risk involved in turning the party's back on these states.

The voters want to feel excited and invested.  Because of this they will feel turned away when they are told again and again by the DNC, bloggers, and the campaigns (see Obama memo above).  I am convinced for this reason the DNC will seat the delegates, but I am worried it will be late enough that there will be lingering feelings of resentment and a huge amount of ammo for the Republicans to hammer away at the message that the Democrats disenfranchised these states.

by rcipw 2008-01-21 12:01PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Exactly right.  We have candidates with a lot of star power and it is very important that we showcase them, for the sake of the Democratic brand.

by Steve M 2008-01-21 12:03PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Big Unanswered Questions: Anyone think this was an oversight by the Obama campaign? Can Obama just blame David Axelrod? How much of a commission will Axelrod gain from running ads in a state that doesn't matter?

No. Yes. Whatever he gets.

If it were Clinton or Edwards running ads in Florida you bet Obama would make a stink about it because it's clear to me he favors a scorched earth policy when dealing with competitors.  

However, in this case IOKIYO.

by KimPossible 2008-01-21 12:04PM | 0 recs
If Clinton wants to waste $ in FL, let her

Nothing could be better for Senator Obama than Clinton wasting time and $$$ in Florida instead of spending it on February 5 states.

The delegates will not be awarded and the more time and $ she spends there compared to other candidates, the less the result means.  The results of the Republican primary are going to be the big news and the Dem result will likely receive similar coverage to MI.

by WellstoneDem 2008-01-21 01:28PM | 0 recs
Does Obama benefit from opening up FL.

This is question Obama fans need to ask themselves. I think not but they may feel differently. SC has been converted into a black favorite son election. Everyone expects him to win and if he doesn't get a landslide it will be regarded as tepid endorsement. The Clintons are incredibly skilful at playing expectation games as we saw in NV.    

by ottovbvs 2008-01-21 01:30PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

What is Obama's path to the nomination now?  How much money does he have?

by rcipw 2008-01-21 01:36PM | 0 recs
Re: The floodgates open in Florida?

Clinton is so full of shit on this one.  How about an UPDATE Jerome on the fact this was a NATIONAL AD BUY ON A CABLE STATION?  CLINTON, SCHULZ AND THE REST OF THE GANG OF IDIOTS PROVE WHAT LIARS THEY TRULY ARE!

by yitbos96bb 2008-01-21 02:51PM | 0 recs
Obama & Florida

I think it's the Obama campaign that wants to go into Florida.  In a memo last week, his campaign suggested with no evidence that Clinton was going to break the ban and "secretly campaign" in Florida.   How one secretly campaigns, I have no idea.

What I do know is that Obama is very far behind in Florida and that would seem to indicate he would benefit most from campaigning there.   I suspect Obama did the national ad on purpose to get Clinton to go to Florida so he can go to Florida (and claim the national ad didn't count and Clinton broke the ban first).

by BDB 2008-01-21 02:57PM | 0 recs
Jerome's Clinton and DLC shilling continues...

you'd think he'd post the Obama camp's statements about this latest Clinton camp manufactured controversy, but that's not how works here at MYDLC...

by moreaxe 2008-01-21 07:42PM | 0 recs
What happened to Michigan Jerome???

Weren't you telling us it was going to be, like, the most important thing EVAH!?

by moreaxe 2008-01-21 07:44PM | 0 recs

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