I felt Edwards did fine but he really didn't have the breakout performance he needed.  He was forced into drawing contrasts with Obama on specific issues rather than the overarching narrative of fighting vs. making nice that he was looking for.

I don't know.  I bet a lot of people in nevada who are planning to caucus but haven't paid much attention to the campaign up to this point watched the debate tonight.  I wonder what they'll take away from it...

Can we all agree that it was great to see all the candidates throwing compliments instead of barbs??

Trippi is so bitter. Get a life, Joe.

Chris Matthews' take was the most unbelievably shallow punditry I've ever seen. Hillary won because she called Bush "pathetic."

Whatever. I thought both Obama and Clinton did really well. Both had some weak moments (Clinton's were almost all in response to gotcha questions for which there was no great answer--latino reluctance to vote for AAs; using fear of terrorist attacks). Obama stuttered a little too much at times and took a few punches on the energy bill. I give them both an A-. Edwards was treated like a second-class candidate by the moderators, it seemed. His answers were most fine, though not great (except for the Musharaf one--he handled that very well). He gets a B, but he isn't necessarily to blame for the lower grade. Oh, one more thing about Edwards: his greatest weakness is that he cares too much?

OMG...I just realized-- how many more of these are we going to have to suffer through if this thing goes all the way to the convention???

The first six or seven questions were completely idiotic. It was like the moderators decided, screw what the public needs to know, lets get them to answer the questions the journalists want answered.

yuck

oh who cares about the dems in michigan? it means nothing...

Actually, I think it is very important to distinguish between the actual debate which, as a spectacle, was less than compelling...AND...the opportunities for each of the campaigns to use the flashpoints that were exposed in the debate to set the debate in Nevada, and in the Nevada media, in the days ahead.

That latter could be quite significant.  Let's see how the Nevada media covers this going forward...

Flashpoints exposed:

1)More nuclear power plants and waste?
2)Using fear in politics...four more years of it?
3)National gun registration?  Unexpected...
4)The Pakistan crisis...who performed the best?

Obama voted for the Dick Cheney Energy bill, Clinton voted against it.

You have to be a real rose colored glasses friend of Obama to see that.

Obama and Edwards slapped Michigan in the face.  They looked towards and pandered to Iowal.   They pulled their names from MI, but not Fl.  Why?

Why because Obama and Edwards took Michigan for granted.   Clinton and Kucinich did not.

Hillary Rodham Clinton schooled Barry and John.  They were left agreeing with her on most issues and stuttering and stammering on the rest of the  issues.

Even Christy Matthrews, who hates all things Clinton, had to agree Hillary Clinton won and scored big tonight.

Pretty amazing the moderators glossed over immigration almost entirely.  I've been calling Nevada voters all week and it's a huge issue there.  What are the moderators scared of?

Hillary's very strong when she talks policy details.

She should quit trying to be like Bill and just keep talking about micro-level stuff.

The voters will never fall in love with her but they might decide to hire her.

She's not going to charm anybody anyway.

Hilary came of as obnoxious

Before I comment on framecop's post I want to ask Todd what in the world are you thinking.  Edwards did himself great by admitting he was wrong on that bankruptcy vote.  Clinton did so much as the same when it was her turn.  But here is the deal, this gave Edwards an opening to tie the odious 2005 Bankruptcy Reform Act with people who are forced into financial insovlency through catastophic medical illnesses.  Studies continue to show catastrophic medical illnesses are the core of these bankruptcies.

Framecop was sharp to pick out the reason Edwards really voted for that bill, the minimum wage, which by the way is what killed the damn thing in committee.  Hillary seemed confused why it died.  Edwards and Hillary missed an opportunity here to bring that up and tie in support for a raise in the minimum wage.

TrumanDem

Truman's Conscience

Lose and blame the process not the message

Well none of them will be headlining a card at Ceasar's Palace in the near future. But, the race issue is out there, I don't think it is "resolved" in any fashion. Remember, the incendiary comments and responses came mostly from surrogates. I don't think the campaigns have nearly as much control over their supporters as most people seem to assume. It won't be the last time someone goes off who is identified with one side or the other.

Plus the pollsters and the pundits will be all over racial vote analysis from here on in. To the extent that blacks rally behind Obama, there will be consequent backlash from non black voters. The issue is out of the hands of the candidates, or even their surrogates at this point and squarely in the realm of public domain. Unless the ban on polling preference by race is effected between now and early February, that is going to be the most highlighted and controversial aspect of the contest.

What Michigan proved is that Hilary can't get men to vote for her,even when she is running against nobody

I agree entirely with Todd Beeton's assessment. Huh, that never happens.

Well, I just read the Jonathan Singer post on the Michigan results and the stratification of the vote by race has already begun apparently. That is a death knell for Obama unless he can reverse it in some fashion. For every extra black vote he gets he loses 2 or 3 non black votes somewhere down the line.

From 5 or 6 years ago. Sheer befuddlement at priority level. "We're talking about practice. We're not talking about a game. We're talking about practice."

That's all Michigan was tonight on the Democratic side. Not even a scrimmage. Pure irrelevant practice. It's roaring hilarity to read diaries and comments pretending otherwise, and suggesting changes and coalitions altering the state of the race.

No wonder Iowa residue was so poorly analyzed, if we've got multiple threads looking at a non-event like Michigan, worried about higher or lower than 60%, like a Price is Right game. Sorry, but it's inane.

Hillary will have a hell of a time winning nationally in a general election, at least by any kind of margin, but she's damn impressive and she dominated tonight. I'm an Edwards supporter but my sports analysis background allows real world impressions and not suffocation toward what I want to unfold. On progressive blogs most of the posts can be written hours beforehand. They'll never change based on reality.

And you can always tell when Hillary won a debate, because it's greeted with tame instant analysis on progressive blogs; "not much happened" or "fairly interesting" or "uneventful." It's virtually a concession. Passive words dominate. If the favored son(s) prevails, that's replaced by high energy euphoria. Unfortunately, Hillary has only stumbled once.

Hillary can vary her game and master subtle points, always with big picture focus. Edwards is much better than 4 years ago but too often he defaults to stump speech tendencies and simplistic angles. Obama is more and more capable in debate format but the likability can only take him so far. When  you look at the debates in text format one candidate stands out, and it's Hillary. I'm beginning to appreciate her more and more.

The progressive blogosphere needs to understand it is only as good and as influential as the situations it inherits in a given cycle. This is no longer a 2nd term midterm, where everything is swell. Nor is it '04, always uphill trying to evict an incumbent with his party only in power 1 term. Hillary has had a substantial base of support toward the nomination long before the netroots started trying to take it away from her.

Most of Obama's supporters are white. If you saw were Obama's support came from in Nh and Iowa it was White and male ranging from liberal to conserative, as well as youth  

That was a gotcha moment that Hillary spun on both Obama and Edwards regarding Yucca mountain.  But the reality of the science is...most were saying it was safe to store waste in Yucca mountain.  I read Science magazine every week and I remember the debates.  As things are now, the nuclear power plants are storing their waste on site...which is not a permanent solution.  In fact it makes the situation more dangerous for an accident or terrorism incident.  Our country must find a long term safe solution to the storage of this radioactive waste.  The science once said...bury it deep within a mountain and they spent 100s of millions of dollars studying Yucca for this.  The problem is that Yucca sits near a newly discovered fault zone and further, there was some scientific fraud regarding the ability of the waste to seep into the ground water.  When these issues became clear, John Edwards retracted his support of this issue...which then became the subject of re-newed debate.  Hillary knows this...so it was a good cheap shot.  I mean John said that there was some fraud in the science that changed his mind.  It changed the Science community and the Congresses mind too.  But it wasn't just that...scientists discovered a hidden fault zone that would become a radioactive disaster should an earthquake occur.  The problem with radiaoactive storage is that almost everywhere on earth has a chance of having an earthquake at some point in time.  If it happens where there is radioactivity stored...then thyroid cancer and leukemia will kill many people.

John Edwards knows this now, and this is why he is against nuclear power period!  

After Matthews spent the better part of a segment a while ago hilariously defending himself against Buchanan/Maddow ('I don't need Pat Buchanan to translate for me'), I heard the cry, "LEAVE CHRIS MATTHEWS ALONE!!!  HE"S ONLY TRYING TO PUT ON A SHOW!!!"

Now, Maddow is finally getting some road of her own, and it's quite refreshing to see her develop her own content, rather than just respond to the jerks.

It also struck me how instantly after the debate Matthews critiqued the round-table format for being, in so many words, none too exciting.  And then, not only did Keith rejoin with 'well, but we heard a lot more substance', but Russert agreed with Keith on that point a few minutes later.

I don't know why it took me so many years to realize this - but this is merely sport for Matthews.  Pin the button on him that says, "I'm sorry, you've obviously mistaken me for someone who cares."

I know our friend will remind me I should read the Daily Howler (I've started) and that I shouldn't care a fig about MSNBC's trajectory - but I do - and it does seem to me that they will continue to fine tune their election coverage, reducing the bloviation and upping the thoughtful reflection. Our continuing input in that regard may help speed the plow.

It wasn't just Bob Johnson, it was Al Sharpton again today.  The totality of all of the racial aspects brought up recently were a clear ploy by the Clinton campaign...and it is something that is geared to attracting Latino support.  If it wasn't a campaign tactic, then she should have put a lid on it with a clear public statement.  Even Bill Clinton went on and on about it.  Well lets see what happens from here.  They are going to stop it because it is hurting them.  Also, why in the hell is Hillarys' union trying to stop the caucuses in Nevada casinos with a law suit.  This is simply trying to dis-enfranchise the SEIU which has endorsed Obama.  paradoxically, this will hurt the Latino vote that Hillary has been courting.  These are simply out of control un-explainable tactics.  The results out of Michigan are an embarrassment.  The results in Nevada will be a surprise.  And the results in South Carolina will probably be a landslide against Hillary.  There is a clear chaos in the CLinton campaign.

I'm only in 30 minutes into the repeat that I'm watching-  so far-
okay- Hillary says 'day one' and '35 years' alot- I've heard 'mill town' too much already- I can't believe that John Edwards said his one weakness is that he CARES too much- can't he answer one thing honestly instead of giving his stump speech?
Obama looked bad when he was showed the 4 pages of notes of his campaign trying to inject race into the things the Clintons say- and he looked bad about the 'losing papers' bit but I don't think anyone will care- he's in a win/win situation- if he wins, he wins the nomination- if he doesn't, he gets the VP spot-  Hillary does not come off as warm as Obama- I don't think the rest of the country will watch this at all- Nevada might though I don't think it may make a difference- but interesting.  It's a bit of a joke that Edwards is still pretending he has a chance.

Obama and Clinton make a great team- it is nice when they are friendly with each other.

I won't make this a separate diary but the recount is on, at least on the Dem side.  From bradblog:

Dennis Kucinich's campaign did in fact get their money in on time. The recount will be starting tomorrow. However, on the Republican side, though the money was wired to the bank for candidate Albert Howard, something at the bank delayed release of the funds in time to meet Secretary of State Gardner's 3:00 p.m. deadline. As I wrote last night, Gardner's demand for full up-front payment does not seem to be in accordance with the law, which requires only a written guarantee that payment will be made.

You'd have to be stupid or insane to not admit Clinton cleaned house.

I don't know who's going to get burnt out sooner, the candidates or the bloggers, it's a tight race.

I did think Obama did well tonight- though he still seems unprepared to be President.  But he came across genuine-  Hillary came across as passionate for her policies and what she believes- they both had good moments- and they both had bad moments.  Obama seemed the less scripted one- John Edwards was a distant third- he also looked the most tired and the lighting was not good for his face, it seemed "droopy"- he needs another hit of botox.  Hillary whacked him hard on his voting twice for Yucca mountain- that 'new science' excuse I think fooled no one.  He really wanted to make an issue out of being the one who says no to nuclear power but I have to be honest, it's obviously an issue there, but I don't think Americans really care that much about that.  And he made strange faces when listening to the others- though I'm sure he couldn't believe what they were saying- I mean, his question to Barack about the drug companies- Obama said nothing new- in fact, he has said parts of what he said many times and John had to sit there acting like he was listening as if he was hearing it for the first time-  Hell, I'VE heard it twice already.  People say Clinton fights dirty, Obama admitting regretting pushing the 'race' card- that's pretty bad doing that- he could give her a few lessons in dirty campaigning.  That and the "I'm disorganized" were his worst moments- but he came out pretty good.  

Hillary saying she was glad the bill she voted on "didn't pass" was a bad moment for her- luckily she was not pressed on it-  I thought her other really bad moment was mentioning her campaign said 'hispanics don't vote for African-Americans'- it seemed she was plainly embarrassed by that and didn't blunt it too well.  The 'fear-mongering' also was not good for her.  But she had more good moments than bad and better moments than the rest though Obama got the laughs tonight- in a good way.

Edwards comes across as a phony politician- he votes yes on these bills, then gives big sermons how awful things are after apologizing for them.  I think he has turned away voters tonight.

I don't know how it will end up, but it seems Obama has the edge to win.  I hope it's Hillary, of course- we'll see.

After being punched to the mat and then kicked when she was down, Clinton has gotten up and has her mojo back.  Barack better reconcile himself to eight years as VP.

NO Hilary showed the Hilary at the Debate that lost her Iowa.

There is NO WAY Hillary or Barack for that matter will pick the other for the VP.  Are you kidding?

Obama will pick someone with Foreign Affiars Experience, maybe even Lugar! Ha! I'd vote for that as a third party even!

Clinton will pick Richardson.

Obama's biggest donors are Exelon, nuclear power plant operators who donated $74,350 to Obama as well as many Financial lenders and Institutions
who have donated heavily to Obama along with Humana and Drug companies.  Obama was devious in saying these donations are from small amts of employees from drug co's, etc.  This is untrue, as it can be seen on MANY websites.  Google.

He backed Joe Lieberman in his senate bid in Connecticut against Lamont. Donated $4200 to Lieberman's campaign.  ooops.

Voted down the amendment to kill loan guarantees to power plant operators....oooops.

Penny Pritzker of the Chicago Billionaire real estate and nursing home dynasty is his Campaign Finance Director and refuses to disclose his donors at next 3 fundraisers...oooops again.

He received a sweetheart real estate deal from neighbor and fundraiser Tony Rezko in Chicago. They shared backlots, while Tony's was worth $300,000 he sold to Obama for $165,000.  Even as Rezko was being investigated for $6,million kickback scheme by Fitzgerald [Libby's Fitzgerald], Obama continued to close this deal on the same day with Rita Rezko. Rezko has recently been indicted for corruption. Obama had to return $11,500 of the $60,000 donated by Rezko for him.

Pritzker money [and Crown] is all over the place. Pritzkers have been involved in Federally closed Savings and loans, own Hyatt chain, nursing homes,financial institutions, and more...

there's so much more I can't go on. Go to WashPost online and see how congress voted and votes...rest is on Google if you really want the truth.