Obama Announcement Open Thread

I watched the speech, and it was very good.  I felt inspired.  But there was no 'ask', nothing for anyone to do but cheer for Obama.  I can't help but thinking that Obama needs to read Zack Exley's 'Will Obama put on the makeup?' An entire new crop of activists and organizers want to work to make Obama President, but until he trusts that he is part of a movement and not a top-down media candidate, he's not there yet.  

That's my opinion, anyway.  This is an open thread.

.... Here's more of what I like. Obama talked about personal responsibility and how the fate of our country has to do with each of us, and how all of us and our communities are going to have to make sacrifices to build a new politics and a new economy. That's real vision-stuff.

Tags: 2008, Barack Obama, president (all tags)

Comments

140 Comments

Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Matt, you're a tough crowd!

by clarkent 2007-02-10 06:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

He is, but we need to be a tough crowd. 2006 was a VERY Good year for us and we have the chance to make 2008 even better. But to do so we need to expect a lot from the candidates and from ourselves. Lets make it happen!

by JDF 2007-02-10 01:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Excellent Speech.

by Socks The Cat 2007-02-10 06:50AM | 0 recs
As Kos said once

Obama's speeches are like chinese food.  30 minutes later you wonder what it was about.

His healthcare page is the most timid thing I've seen so far..

I think Edwards' "raise your taxes" scared him on healthcare.

try to find "universal" or "single payer" on his health care issues page

by TarHeel 2007-02-10 06:52AM | 0 recs
Re: As Kos said once

I don't think so, there was real meat there.

by Matt Stoller 2007-02-10 06:54AM | 0 recs
Re: As Kos said once

Meat?  Do tell!

by Neil the Ethical Werewolf 2007-02-10 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: As Kos said once

You're a werewolf, you should already know.

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 10:32AM | 0 recs
Re: As Kos said once

You are right it isn't on his website, BUT he did say it in the speech, he said it needs to be done by time the end of the first term.  So he does believe in it.  My guesss is that he is waiting to put it on there until he unveils his plan.

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 07:14AM | 0 recs
don't get me wrong.

I'd be thrilled if EITHER Obama or Edwards beats HIllary but for my personal tastes Obama has been to timid on issues and going after Hillary is who a very very formidable opponent who is not going to implode on her own.

by TarHeel 2007-02-10 07:17AM | 0 recs
Re: don't get me wrong.

His campaign just started... He feels very strong about the issues he supports and I think your viewpoint is a bit biased because you are a rabid Edward's supporter.

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: don't get me wrong.

I'm also not saying his will be the best (although I hope it is).  But be patient... EDWARDS almost has to put out these plans now... HRC and Obama's announcements are sucking up his press and him making these announcements keeps him in the thick of things.  Obama has some time on this, since he is the last of the big three to declare (although I am not 100% sure... Did HRC actually declare... I reread her speech and can't tell for sure.) and gets a LOT of press... so much that he doesn't have to worry about losing the press's coverage of him.  Even those who he ignores want to write about him and if PR are to be believe there really isn't all that much bad press.  Not sure if I BUY that, but hey...

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 10:36AM | 0 recs
I think Hillary hasn't officially

done the president thing..only exploratory committee

so actually Obama is further along than Hillary in that and only that regard

by TarHeel 2007-02-10 12:30PM | 0 recs
Kos goes Chinese

"Obama's speeches are like chinese food.  30 minutes later you wonder what it was about."

Actually the pitch on Chinese food, like Obama speeches, is that 30 minutes later...you want more ;)

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 07:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Kos goes Chinese

But is that because there was only fluff to begin with?

Just ribbing you.  We all know you worship at Obama's altar... and you know what? That's all right... We've got plenty of time to find out what all these presidential aspirants are made of.  I can't wait.

by bedobe 2007-02-10 10:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Kos goes Chinese

You have to admit, he did have a good comeback there!

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 10:37AM | 0 recs
Re: Kos goes Chinese

Yeah, I give BrionLutz credit -- it's clear that he's got high language skills, which is why he often resorts to over spin and word games (not in this thread, but in other threads).

by bedobe 2007-02-10 10:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Kos goes Chinese

Yeah, but he does yoeman work distracting Francis Holland with interminible dialogues while the rest of us carry on with our posts.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 11:04AM | 0 recs
Re: As Kos said once

As someone who studies Chinese language and culture, and who lives in Taiwan, I'm really getting sick of this analogy about Chinese food. First of all, it isn't true and is an unnecessary generalization. Secondly, it comes from a time when inauthentic Chinese food was first exposed to the American public.

I know this is off-subject, but I just had to get that off my chest. In related news, I haven't heard the speech yet, but I like what I see on his website. I'll give the candidates some more time before I make a decision.  

by Panhu 2007-02-10 07:37PM | 0 recs
He did

That is what I remembered most.  That Divided we are bound to fail and that we are all responsible for our country and have to do our part.

by jasmine 2007-02-10 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread
have to disagree with you Matt - I thought he did make the case that he was asking for people to work with him and get involved- not about him - but us!
it was a very good speech - he's thoughtful- damn intelligent - and inspiring - maybe just what we need
by bcoyle 2007-02-10 07:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

True.  I'm critiquing the structure of the announcement rather than the content of the speech.

by Matt Stoller 2007-02-10 07:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I think his website goes a long way in the reaching out... A good use of social networking...

But I might be misunderstanding what you mean...

Either way, I liked the speech too.  

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 07:17AM | 0 recs
He has my vote (unless Gore gets in)

I really think he is like Lincoln--able to bring the country together in a time of crisis.  He'll be able to unite the country around ending this war.

by Terryus 2007-02-10 07:02AM | 0 recs
If you're not upsetting someone

are you really going to accomplish much?

to get universal or single payer healthcare you're going to upset a lot of interests.

by TarHeel 2007-02-10 07:12AM | 0 recs
Re: If you're not upsetting someone

HE ISN'T referring to special interests when he is talking about uniting people.  HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE.  Uniting Red and Blue states... as he says, Compromising without compromising our values.  Only by working together can we solve the big problems... which means ONLY WITH MASSIVE SUPPORT OF THE PEOPLE can we force the politicians to make changes and ignore special interests, which means we need the help of people from the Red States as well as the blue states.  Of course a small minority will be upset with universal healthcare, but as long as a strong majority of CITIZENS are behind these issues then they can be achieved.  You keep confusing his policies with the DLC democrats... they are NOT the same thing.

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 07:26AM | 0 recs
actually Sirota

who clearly isn't on the Obamania wagon,  expresses some of what I was trying to say, about getting along and unity..

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/2/10/ 1427/83134

by TarHeel 2007-02-10 12:33PM | 0 recs
Sirota

David Sirota wrote a brief slam. He usually doesn't get received at dKos very well. It was noted that he had issues with Obama going back to CT-SEN. He didn't link any of his books for sale, but he did have some former FPers show up midthread to buck him up.

I haven't seen as many attacks on Obama from Clintonites as from Edwardsians. I regret that Edwards supporters think belittling Obama and demanding point by point plans (so they can pick those apart) is the way to go. I haven't heard Obama say anything derogatory about his opponents.

Eleventh Commandment, folks. It doesn't mean shut up, but it means be constructive.

by frenchman 2007-02-11 04:39AM | 0 recs
Re: He has my vote (unless Gore gets in)

Here's the thing about Lincoln - his rhetoric was that of unity, but he practically incited the Civil War by beefing up troop levels at Ft. Sumpter.

I want Obama to be more like Lincoln - unity rhetoric, but not afraid to piss people off to do what's right.

by pluto101 2007-02-10 08:48AM | 0 recs
Re: He has my vote (unless Gore gets in)

He did up the troop levels but at that point the south had seceded and technically they were a foreign country... had to protect US territory. Personally I don't think he is afraid... compromise without compromising our values.  Unite the Citizens to build a better country.

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 10:40AM | 0 recs
Lincoln

I feel kind of silly arguing about 1860s politics, but...

Ft. Sumter aside, Lincoln as an individual didn't do anything to start the Civil War. South Carolina might have said they seceded because of his election, but any Republican would have been the excuse-- especially William Seward, who was almost the nominee, and, at the time, was still very much the face of the Republican Party.

But secession really wasn't the start of the war, either. It started in Kansas, fighting over the state's slave status, and in John Brown's raid. Even a Democrat like Stephen Douglas would have had a tough time appeasing the South, because the country was already coming apart.

Now, as for Sumter specifically, Lincoln did the absolute minimum he thought he could do without provoking hostilities. He knew he had to make some sort of stand, but northern public opinion wouldn't have supported any military action at that point. What he basically told Major Anderson was to hold the fort for as long as possible, but not to fire the first shot of a war.

Lincoln didn't so much increase troop levels as he did try to ensure adequate supplies. President Buchanan had downsized the military prior to that, so the fort wasn't in condition to fight off anyone, and the South had already seized a lot of Northern supplies and armaments-- partly through taking other forts, and partly through rather traitorous actions of a few of Buchanan's cabinet secretaries.

Not that any of that matters. I just thought I'd throw that out there. I like Obama, and I like Edwards and Clark and Richardson and, though he's not running, Al Gore. But deep down, I guess I'm a Lincoln-ite.

by Fitzy 2007-02-10 11:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Lincoln

Nothing wrong with 1860's politics, au contraire.


Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them.

George Santayana 1863-1952

Thucidydes, de Tocqueville, Samuel Eliot Morison, bring it on.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: He has my vote (unless Gore gets in)

Lincoln was not a uniter, he was a fighter.

by Robert P 2007-02-10 09:39AM | 0 recs
you mean the civil war...

by TarHeel 2007-02-10 12:35PM | 0 recs
Re: you mean the civil war...

Lincoln did not preach bipartisanship, the third way, or any of that crap.  He preached fighting for the soul of the country and that after the war was over, THEN we could see about reconciliation - after the opponent was beaten and broken.

by Robert P 2007-02-10 03:57PM | 0 recs
Re: you mean the civil war...

The only problem with fighting for the soul of the country is you have to find it first, or at least remind them of it.  Lincoln did that too.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 09:04PM | 0 recs
Re: He has my vote (unless Gore gets in)

Are you kidding me!?  Just because Sen Obama's campaign has made that claim doesn't mean we should sheepishly repeat it.  Let's wait till Sen Obama successfully manages the next American Civil War before we start comparing him to Pres Lincoln, until then the claim is simply ridiculous and an empty campaign slogan.  Now, don't read to much into this comment, I have an open mind about Sen Obama... and Edwards... and specially Gore.  

by bedobe 2007-02-10 10:13AM | 0 recs
Re: He has my vote (unless Gore gets in)

Wouldn't you say we have been in an American COld Civil war for the last 13 years... that really came to a head in 2000 (our cuban missle crisis)?

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 10:41AM | 0 recs
Re: He has my vote (unless Gore gets in)
Nah, that would be taking it too far. We've been engaged in spirited and rabid political debate... and, unfortunately, we, progressives, have had our butts handed to us time and time again (for various cultural, structural and personnel related issues). Also, clearly, we've suffered the greatest attack on US soil, but, again, the magnitude is not comparable to the imminent threat of nuclear war looming only 90 miles off the coast of Florida. I can only speak for myself, but all I want from a Democratic political leader, er, candidate (leaders emerge after facing trials), is the strength of character to present (and sell) to America a progressive set of answers/values without qualifications, equivocations, vacillations, nor outs couched with "in the one hand, then in the other hand." I want a Dem candidate that will not be afraid to echo the following:
I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master.
by bedobe 2007-02-10 11:19AM | 0 recs
Re: He has my vote (unless Gore gets in)

I believe the subtext of Senator Obama's speech, especially given the venue, goes something like "A house divided against itself cannot stand."  Sound familiar?  

Incidentally Lincoln gave that speech at the Illinois Statehouse at the outset of his campaign for the Senate seat of Illinois in 1858 and it was generally conceded to have contributed to his defeat by being to radical.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 11:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I have been listening to candidate speeches since JFK. This is the most inspiring announcement speech I can recall. Truly uplifting!

by HeartlandDem 2007-02-10 07:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

anyone have a link to watch the speech??

thanks

by jscorse 2007-02-10 07:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

They will be putting it on his website soon...

www.barackobama.com

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 07:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Text of the speech anywhere?

by Baldrick 2007-02-10 07:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I am looking for Text...

http://capitolconnection.sitestream.com/ obamaforamerica/livewebcast.htm

This is the direct link to his speech from the website.  If you can't get there, then go to the site and click on it on the front page.

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 07:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

It's closed captioned too.  That is pretty cool!

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 07:45AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Well, he did mention that people had to sacrifice and work which is more than other candidates will say except for Edwards.

by FairfaxDem11 2007-02-10 07:11AM | 0 recs
Obama will come around

Obama will come around to the netroots.  One way I expect the netroots to really establish itself this election cycle is as a kind of virtual security force.  Campaigns are terrified of thugs like Bill Donahue and other rightwing blowhards.  Republican pols have hid behind these proxy attack dogs for years now, and Democratic pols have learned that trying to counter the proxies directly only creates more attention for the proxies.  Bill Donahue wants nothing more than to hear an Edwards spokesman say his name.

That's where the netroots steps in.  As we saw in the Edwards debacle, the netroots is capable of taking on proxies directly.  The Edwards campaign was rightly hesitant to say Donahue's name aloud, but mydd readers weren't, and the blizzard of emails denouncing Donahue was rapid and effective.  Edwards' attackers were publicly denounced, their credibility impugned.  It was an example of "bitch slap politics," except this time, the slappers got slapped.

I suspect the one campaign that believes it can handle it's own "security" in this respect is HRC's.  The Clintonistas were always quite proud of their rapid response team for scandals.  But other campaigns, including Obama's, will need to play nice with the netroots if they want the kind of assistance Edwards got.  And really, the best way to play nice is to adopt reasonable policy positions.  It's not that hard.

As for the netroots itself, I suspect that at least some of the enthusiasm behind the Edwards defense came in response to the sense that one of its own was under attack.  In other words, if the story hadn't involved bloggers, I'm not sure the netroots response would have been as aggressive or effective.  But it was effective.  And other campaigns will want the same kind of effort when they are targeted by Donahue and his ilk.  Even when the slime attack does not involve campaign bloggers.  (Just as an example, I would submit that the netroots defense of Pelosi, during the jet scandal, was not as focused or effective as it was of Edwards.  Blogs were getting the facts right on Pelosi, but news organizations were not facing same kind of direct, sustained pressure to include those facts in their stories.)

by owenz 2007-02-10 07:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama will come around

(Sorry for being so off topic)

by owenz 2007-02-10 07:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama will come around

Open Thread... It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to be off topic!  ;-)

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 07:46AM | 0 recs
Netroots will come around

"Obama will come around to the netroots."

Ah...the self importance of the "netroots". It's all about them.

Obama will be Obama. That's his appeal. If netroots don't vote for liberal, authentic, articulate candidates...who needs netroots.

Fascinating the netroots likes to advertise itself as "community based" yet they've been openly hostile to the only real community organizer running for president.

But lets be positive.  Netroots will get onboard. Arguably, most of the real netroots are on board as we saw with the spontaneous Facebook rally. Something other candidates couldn't buy.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 07:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Netroots will come around

Netroots, to the extent it's a monolithic entity, will get on board with any Democrat. Even Clinton. I'm not a fan, but if she's our nominee, I'll be damn proud to work to elect our first female president, and a candidate who's roughly ten times better than any potential Republican candidate.

Given Obama's inspiring call to generational arms (and his alarming--to me--youth), I find it extremely ... curious ... that he's not done more to embrace one of the elements at the heart of a new generation of progressive activism. But maybe he's playing a longer game than is immediately apparent.

And, of course, he doesn't need to woo the netroots to win eventual support. We'll rally near-universally to him if he wins, and he's already in the top tier of netroots candidates. Of course, the notion that the netroots has been openly hostile to him is simply wrong. The netroots has been openly hostile to two D campaigns--possibly three--and Obama's isn't among them. Quite the contrary.

by BingoL 2007-02-10 08:21AM | 0 recs
by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I haven't watched the speech yet, but just visited his site, including the video section.  I agree with Matt that Obama should take seriously Zack's suggestions.  I also think he's got the right attributes to take those suggestions and run an amazing campaign with them.  I'm also heartened by Edwards recent actions.  

While its great and very helpful to have the netroots poking, prodding, pushing and critiquing the candidates, their campaigns and policy proposals (or lack thereof), my main feeling is that we are fortunate to have at least two candidates that show signs of understanding the potential that exists for a revitalization of American democracy, policy, political campaigns and government's role in our society.

After visiting Obama's site and watching the Brightcove-powered video section, I got the feeling that he may very well have what it takes to do what Zack is suggesting, and also to walk with integrity a path that stands up to the bullies and the liars, but also inspires the hearts and minds of Americans hungry for authenticity, hope and practical ways to invest that hope in individual and collective actions.  

The netroots stands as the foundation for that transition.  Zack suggests a way to quickly build new layers of activism and involvement on top of that foundation.  I encourage front pagers to keep pushing this basic message, and have a feeling Obama and/or Edwards (and maybe others)will "get it."

Zack's got some great and specific advice in his post, but here's his general message:

They need to think about the Internet with the same intensity, curiosity and rigor that they apply to television, polling, speech writing/making and debate performance. This is the cycle when it is just complete idiocy to treat base-building through the Internet with one iota less seriousness than those other critical areas.

And his warning:

But just you watch: He and his campaign manager are going to leave it to "the Internet guy" to sort out. And the problem isn't that "the Internet guy" is not smart--in fact, he's brilliant! But he's not Obama. And he is not sitting in that inner circle. And, no, I don't mean "senior staff"--I mean the candidate's kitchen table when he's hammering out those giant decisions such as: "How do we launch?"

Obama's apparently missed the launch opportunity Zack suggests, but my sense is that its not too late to do some catching up, and that there's at least a decent chance that he will.

In the meantime, I suspect he'll be hearing more such suggestions and feeling mounting pressure from the netroots.  That he will heed the message is my audacious hope.

by mitchipd 2007-02-10 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I have a question? What do all you Democratic revitalists have to say when 3 months after you win the Congress, one of the major candidates announces and doesn't mention Democrats or the Democratic party?

by brutus1 2007-02-10 07:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I don't think it is a big deal since the media has painted him as one of the FACES of the Democratic Party... EVERYONE knows he's a Democrat... Everyone knows that he is running for the DEMOCRATIC nomination.

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 07:53AM | 0 recs
Lieberman

Ask yourself honestly if you would say the same thing if Joe Lieberman had given a speech during the 2006 Primary and didn't mention the Democratic Party.  I don't think so, he would have been called all kinds of bad names.

by Robert P 2007-02-10 09:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Lieberman

Fair Point, but Obama's actions prove he is a democrat... He voted with the party more than every other Senator except for 2 in the last session and he expresses Democratic Ideals.  Lieberman doesn't vote with the party and doesn't support many of the ideals, except for the Labor ones.  

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"I have a question?"

No, you don't have a question is the answer ;).

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:18AM | 0 recs
Democrats or Democratic

Did he mention the Democrat Party?

by msstaley 2007-02-10 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Et tu, Brute?

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 01:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Obama will embrace the netroots out of necessity.  As the shiny new kid on the block, he has a fat target on his back.  The rightwing attacks are going to come from all directions.  They will be a creative mix of the irrelevant and superfluous, bigoted and mean spirited, and the completely fabricated.  His campaign will quickly learn that the NY Times and Washington Post are not his friends.  

While Edwards' decision to retain his bloggers was, to some degree, the result of coercive pressure from the netroots, it was also a result of the netroots' ability to attack his attackers.  You can't buy that kind of protection from consultants. Obama will learn.

by owenz 2007-02-10 07:54AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"it was also a result of the netroots' ability to attack his attackers"

Venting on blogs did nothing about Donahue.  The only person influenced was Edwards who, having tried to purchase netroots support, spent days running the political calculation of the damage to his campaign.

The idea that Obama needs to buy protection from the  netroots is a bit laughable.  Obama simply cut off Fox.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

The blogs changed the media narrative on Donahue sweety and it's only beginning.  The man is going to have all his trash dragged out for everyone to see.

The fact that you are an Obama supporter who thinks your man is God and needs no one's support, especially not that of scruffy bloggers, is certainly clear, both from this and from other comments you've made.

But you're right - Obama doesn't like the netroots much, and I don't expect him to kiss up.  Which is fine by me.

Nonetheless the netroots will probably protect him somewhat, just because he's a Democrat, same as they hit back for Clinton against misogyny.

by Ian Welsh 2007-02-10 06:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"The blogs changed the media narrative on Donahue sweety and it's only beginning."

Only in the minds of the self inflated netroots. Only thing the netroots venting did was influence Edwards.

Edwards got hammered on the bloggirls for two reasons, both of his own creation.

1. He tried to buy netroots popularity with the hire of two people who neither he nor his campaign were very educated about, he was simply buying a name he heard.

2. Once caught by the bloggirls rhetoric (even moderate Catholic groups were complaining) Edwards validated Donahue's criticism by agreeing with it, saying nothing of Donahue's bigoted opinions.

As for the netroots, all they did was convince Edwards that, having paid for the netroots support, he was going to lose his purchase if he fired the bloggirls.  He was willing to lose the Catholic votes, calculating that he needed the netroot's support more in the primary.

For real grassroots netroots support you might look at the rally organized by the Facebook groups for Obama.

At his first rally since announcing his presidential exploratory committee, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) appealed yesterday for support from the young people who had mobilized for the event online.

The gathering of several thousand students at George Mason University in Fairfax underscored the potential power of online communities in the 2008 campaign. Its genesis was a group created last summer on Facebook.com, a Web site frequented by college students who post profiles and assemble virtually. 2/4/07

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Obama's inclusive message is resonating with members of my family I wouldn't expect to support any Dem candidate -- particularly this early in the process. My moderate Republican mother and my self-made millionaire brother-in-law are both very excited about Obama. My Mom likes his tone and that in the whole speech he didn't mention Bush once and my brother-in-law is excited that his message is positive with a call to action and that his background is 'worldly' -- particularly African and Asian -- at a time when we need to be better world citizens and have our leadership reflect this. I haven't heard either family member this excited about a political candidate. I don't have a particular dog in this fight yet, but this reaction raises my eyebrows.

by musicsleuth 2007-02-10 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

What state do you live in Music Sleuth... just out of curiosity?

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 10:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Mom lives in Illinois, brother-in-law lives in Maryland (grew up in Illinois, in Maryland 20+ years), I live in Pennsylvania (grew up in Illinois, in PA 20+ years).

by musicsleuth 2007-02-10 11:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I think Obama is a nice enough guy, but even as recently as last fall he was saying he was "over-hyped," "too green," etc.

What's changed in the past five months?  How does he move from over-hyped (by his own words) to legitimate contender?  What makes him ready to run for president, much less be president?

by Vox Populi 2007-02-10 08:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"I think Obama is a nice enough guy, but even as recently as last fall he was saying he was "over-hyped," "too green," etc. What's changed in the past five months?"

The realization that those views were a bunch of crap. William Pitt was 24 when he became Prime Minister in England.

Obama is 45 years old, 12 years of experience in government, that's a Masters and PhD.

Add in his 3 years as on the street community organizer, an experience none of the other candidates have, and he's the man.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Apples and oranges.

24 was middle aged back then.

Life expectancy at birth was about 35/36 in the eighteenth century

UK On Line

by pelican 2007-02-10 11:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Nope...24 years old was 24 years old. Pitt had only been in office 3 years when he was made Prime Minister.

Obama will have 12 years of State and Federal experience...more than enough...more than Edwards for example, more than Bush Jr. who McCain supported so what is McCain going to do, say his previous clams of support for Bush Jr was an example of McCain's bad judgement?

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 12:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Link to one bad thing you've ever said about Obama or try and tell us all one thing about Obama that you think is a negative.  I can't imagine you've ever said anything about Obama that wasn't just boosterism, but hey, maybe you have.  You certainly haven't in this thread.

by Ian Welsh 2007-02-10 06:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"Link to one bad thing you've ever said about Obama or try and tell us all one thing about Obama that you think is a negative."

He's all positive.

"I can't imagine you've ever said anything about Obama that wasn't just boosterism"

Not sure your lack of imagination is my problem.

I don't expect candidates to be perfect or to agree with me on all issues but I can enthusiastically support a great candidate who offers an honest and unifying approach to US leadership...that would be Obama.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Fair question.. I will say though that some of his comments were ment to deflect the hype, others were self deprication, which he is known for (makes fun of himself a lot).  I think we forget though that the President is the face, but HARDLY running the whole show on his own.  Hell Bush's presidency proves that... problem is Bush's advisors were the worst sort of scum.  But ask yourself, what really makes Edward's ready?  What makes HRC ready?  In total elected Office, Obama has spent more time (although they trump him nationally of course).  Can anyone really be ready to be president... with the exception of a former VP?  While Gore wouldn't be my pony (he'd be my #2), I would say that of all the possibilities he is most ready to be president.

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 10:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Well, for example, the quality of the almost flawless campaign he has run so for.  The medium is the message.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Can he do something first? Can he do is job as Senator and then get re-elected and then consider running for President?

by jmderosa 2007-02-10 09:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Can he do something?

He is doing something. He is intelligent, eloquent and sincere. I think he has more than proven that he belongs. Does that mean I think he will/should be our nominee or the next president? I haven't decided yet. But to dismiss him out of hand seems incredibly short sighted and unfair.

by JDF 2007-02-10 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Polls from Illinois show a majority wanted him to run.  So his constituents support him.

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 10:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama's Constituents

I'm one of them. I'm not supporting his candidacy. I went to an event the other night in which some others in Illinois were not supporters either.  They were like me, who believe the time is not right for him to run, but concede he is a bright light.

Unlike his colleague Dick Durbin, Obama's staff are dilatory in answering letters.  Obama reminds me of a more friendly HRC, always careful, waiting for someone else to make the move first.  Example: I wrote to Obama a few days after Chimpy accepted Bolton's resignation.   Well after Chimpy found someone else to nominate, then I got a response. That was nearly 5 weeks later.  I know his staff are busy, but in Nov, the Senate was recessed most of the time.  They should have been able to write a response quicker. But instead, as he always does, he takes a less risky position.  Durbin would have responded within 10-15 days, and I don't mean business days either.

Another time I will write more about why I don't support Obama's candidacy, but today is his turn to be in the spotlight.  I did like one part of the speech:

"We're distracted from our real failures, and told to blame the other party, or gay people, or immigrants."

by benny06 2007-02-10 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

He is doing something.  About the most challenging something on the planet, and so far he is doing very nicely, thanks.  Don't you think so?

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I just watched his speech (now up on his site) and I gotta say there was something very powerful and positive--but also very natural--about watching an African-American presidential candidate reach out so eloquently to the entire nation.

I'm someone who views current events from a long-term historical and evolutionary perspective.  And from that perspective, I can't help but see Obama as a major game-changer.  He's very smart, eloquent, has a vision for the next phase of the great American (and human) experiment, and seems genuinely and deeply comfortable in his own skin, with a healthy sense of destiny mixed with an equally healthy dose of humility.

And, yes, I also loved the music....there were some moments that seemed both perfectly staged and gracefully natural.  If he can combine that "magic" with substance, strategy and courage, he can push the nascent realignment a big step forward.

I was a Clark supporter in '04 (and still think he's a tremendous leader and asset to this country) and also really do like Edwards.  But I think Obama may be the best vehicle for what needs to happen in this country.  In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing Wes Clark get behind Obama and have Obama take on Clark as a top-level advisor during the campaign and commit to bringing him on in a key role like Sec of State or special emissary to the rest of the world that's waiting for the U.S. to become a constructive leader again in the world.

A little bit louder now......

by mitchipd 2007-02-10 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

What was the song played when he came out?

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"City of Blinding Lights" by U2.

by PsiFighter37 2007-02-10 10:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Thanks, I wondered the same thing myself.

by benny06 2007-02-10 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

And closed with Motown...perfect.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Wes Clark won't get behind anyone who lacks foreign policy/national security experience. It isn't 1992.

Besides which, Clark will be running against him ;)

by pelican 2007-02-10 11:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Clark joining with Obama would be a powerful, and irresistable, thing.  If only it were so.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 01:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I think Obama's VP is going to be Webb...he's the new TR to Obama's FDR.

Webb's populist, outside the box approach fits Obama's new hope theme.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Love it!  I was hoping for Clark, sort of a thinking man's Eisenhower, but the Webb as Teddy thing certainly does fly.  But wasn't Secretary of the Navy FDR's old post?

But don't you think Edwards is more the wannabee FDR than Obama?  I think of Obama as the RFK we never got to have.  

And Hillary, well, that stumped me for awhile but I think she's got to be... Wendell Wilkie.  :-)

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 08:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"But don't you think Edwards is more the wannabee FDR than Obama?"

Obama is more the FDR if you listen to FDR's speeches and Obamas you get the same feel.

Edwards is more wannabe Huey Long. I think he tanked with the two Americas them and the House...it's just like the old Kingfish.

But on who complements Obama most as a VP, it's definitely Webb. Obama campaigned heavily for Webb. The two of them together is one Webb's promo pix on his website.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Ha ha ha.  Huey Long, I gotta' give you that one, for sure, litigious advocacy for the common plaintiff, beating Standard Oil, a radical populist, Southern senator, and nobody's fool either.  But now that you mention it what about William Jennings Bryan, think of all that campaigning, three failed bids?  

But no, you're right, he is more a 'Kingfish,' Bryan went all religous when politics failed him.

You and I are not going to make alot of friends around here like this are we?  I still like HRC as a modern Wilkie, though, it fits her like a glove.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 09:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

And Guiliani has just got to be Thomas E Dewey, no?

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 10:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

It is an interesting historical parallel. Edwards rhetoric is right out of the Kingfish and the dichotomy of living like a king while championing the poor.  The same psychology in a way, both Edwards and Long were self made men of modest background who, when successful, went a bit overboard in their lifesytle, totally understandable but it always creates that gap.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-11 05:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"Every man a king but no-one wears a crown."

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-11 09:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Ah....the Kingfish...his appeal was very similar to Edward's pitch about the "two Americas".

by BrionLutz 2007-02-11 10:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

A little bit louder now indeed....

I was very impressed, as I must confess as I have usually been in the case of Mr. Obama. It might be just hope, but for the moment I am going with it...I feel like he could be the candidate I have been waiting for. The big question is can he live up to it once he gets into the campaign, based on what I have seen so far I think he can.

I think Matt had a good point about realizing, and or accepting that he is part of a movement. But he seems like the sort of person who will figure that out...I wonder how many idiots in the media are going to make the Obama/Osama mistake now?

There are other candidates and potential candidates I really like, particularly Edwards and Gore, but today, for my money, I would take Barack Obama.

by JDF 2007-02-10 10:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I think this is not being mentioned on the blogs because people are looking at it from a bigger picture than "the state of black America." Nor do I think it is all that relavent to "the state of black America."

Universal Healthcare would be relavent.
A living wage would be relavent.
Getting out of Iraq would be relavent.

The idea is that skin color doesn't matter, but for that idea to be true it has to cut both ways, and treating Obama as "the black candidate," or "the african-american candidate" is not the sort of typecasting we should want in a situation like this.

by JDF 2007-02-10 10:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Nor HE wants.  He wants to be the People's candidate.

by yitbos96bb 2007-02-10 10:52AM | 0 recs
The State of Black America

I was watching that today, very interesting.  You could write a diary on that.

by msstaley 2007-02-10 10:56AM | 0 recs
Obama Announcement

Meh, he still hasn't given me what I want out of our nominee.  After the disaster that has been Bush, Democrats need another FDR.  We need that grand theme that does unite the US behind a great effort that makes the country better.  I don't feel that listening to Obama or Hillary right now.  Edwards' Two Americas has echoes of what I want but I need to see a lot more of him before I am willing to go with a person who contributed to the current mess.  Maybe Obama will get better.

by msstaley 2007-02-10 11:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement

Edwards is good, and his message is certainly close to what I want to hear...I think Obama has the makings as well though... as to whether or not he will "get better." He just started give him some time to show us what he is doing in this race before you sell him short. I think there is a good chance he could be the candidate we need.

by JDF 2007-02-10 11:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement

"Maybe Obama will get better."

My sense is that Obama will have to grow as a candidate (issues, themes, organization, netroots, "movement", etc.) or he will not have the staying power to win the primary. Expectations are high and inclination to lose hope and become cynical are also high.  So he'll have to satisfy enough of the hopes as a candidate (e.g., fleshing out strong proposals for healthcare reform and other issues, expanding and clarifying his themes, mobilizing and empowering grassroots support, etc.) to retain momentum.  Making stirring speeches will not be enough.  

He has the raw material to win, I think, and is at the right historical moment to take advantage of that.  If he can build a strong campaign and strong proposals on top of that, it'll be a good indicator that there's real "beef" behind the charisma and charm.  If he does, I think he can win.  

As Matt noted in his post, a key question will be the extent to which he heeds Zack Exley's advice and really integrates an Internet strategy at the highest levels of his planning. The candidate that does this best (as was the case with Dean in 04) will have a big advantage, though the extent of it is, I think, beyond anyone's ability to predict, as was the case with Dean in 04.  My gut sense is that Obama understands that and will move steadily in that direction.  We'll see.

by mitchipd 2007-02-10 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement

"As Matt noted in his post, a key question will be the extent to which he heeds Zack Exley's advice and really integrates an Internet strategy at the highest levels of his planning."

He's two steps ahead of the old guard netroots in the same way Dean was ahead of the old guard politicos in 2004.

This ain't his first rodeo.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 11:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement

" We need that grand theme that does unite the US behind a great effort that makes the country better.  "

Actually I think that is Obama's main emphasis on having the grand theme of united United States facing its problems.

Very similar to FDR's inaugural which, like Obama's announcement speech was all about unity, hard work and hope for the future.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"and it [State of Black America] isn't going to get noticed on blogs.

Dude!  A black man announcing for president IS the state of black America.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 12:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

A black candidate for president is no more the state of black america than a black head coach winning the Super Bowl.

This isn't about a black candidate and it CAN'T be about a black candidate. It needs to be about the issues that face this country. Those issues are the state of black america.

As to whether or not the blogs notice the state of black america I think it is apparent from the issues we support that we do notice and we do care.

by JDF 2007-02-10 12:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"A black candidate for president is no more the state of black america than a black head coach winning the Super Bowl."

They both are as a matter of fact but to say the state of the black America is being ignored on the day a black man announces the most serious presidential campaign that will lead to our first black president is totally missing the point.

The state of black America and white America are fusing as a black man is arguably the leading candidate for president of the United States.

That is freaking breath taking.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Get ready for the smear machine to gear up against him.

Here is what I think they will do.

Stage One: Throw spaghetti at the wall.

Stage Two: Pound the crap out of whatever gets traction in the press. They are attempting to weaken the foundation among voters that pay no attention. Some voters hear something and make an early decision as to where they will get their information. If they keep lobbing in mortars they soften up the defense, and see if a weakness develops. They also might get voters to believe some of their information. If this is done long enough they can define our candidate through shear repetition.

Stage Three: Divert voter attention from real issues by initiating absurd attacks from marginal sources. They can waste a great deal of Obama's time and energy as he has to fend off attacks. This only works if the press goes along with the unsubstantiated attacks. That is, it works and works well.

Stage Four: Accuse Obama of whatever they think their candidate's weakness is, first. For example, if their candidate tends to be a racist, they accuse Barack of racism, thus blunting any attack by Barack as a tit for tat reprisal.

Stage Five: Have their candidate skate above the fray, in calm denial of all the dirty work being done by their campaign. Their candidate pounds out the same generic message day after day. They will make sure that message is full of platitudes that no reasonable person would disagree with. For example, their candidate will say something like "I believe the world should be free and happy," or "America can only be great if people are responsible."

This accomplishes two things. First, by staking out "happiness" as their issue, they imply that Barack is against "happiness." Second, the voters, that are not paying attention, hear a platitude like "happiness" and think "hay, I like this guy because I like happiness too. I should vote for him."

Of course, running a campaign on something, every human being on the planet agrees with, like "happiness," is absurd, but it works. At least it did in the last two Presidential campaigns.

by Awfergu 2007-02-10 01:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Kudos to Steve Scully for correcting the caller who shared her belief that Obama is a Muslim.

He left her speechless, except to say "Thank You."

by Books Alive 2007-02-10 04:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

The caller who said Obama's middle name is Muhammad? That left me with my mouth hanging open; where'd she get that permutation?

But I was impressed with how quickly and precisely the moderator corrected her. The credo for C-SPAN moderators is to not say anything, no matter how barmy the caller is.

by joyful alternative 2007-02-11 07:20AM | 0 recs
Cutting through smears

One thing's different about Obama compared to candidates like Kerry, Gore and Dukakis (all beat by a smearing Bush campaign).  He has a natural, easy, relatable, charismatic and likeable personality and communication style.  I think to some extent this will make it harder for smears to stick...you get the feeling you can sense who the guy is and that he connects directly with you.  Maybe a similar quality was part of Clinton's ability to be the "comeback kid."  

K, G and D were all relatively stiff, reserved and indirect in their communication style, so who they were was harder to get a feel for.  Maybe that made it easier for Republican smears to stick in voters' minds, because the candidates were not very good at making a direct connection with them and communicating who they were in ways that could counter smear-fueled negative images.  Obama will not suffer from that same shortcoming.  That may not immunize him, but it should give him a weapon some other candidates have lacked.

We've yet to see how Obama reacts to smears and intense, high-stakes negative campaigning.  I have a feeling he'll do very well, but time will tell.  I think his somewhat cautious nature (criticized by some) combined with his authenticity and charisma could make him a very formidable candidate if and when the shit starts hitting the fan.  If attacked, I don't think he'll shoot from the lip (his cautious, thoughtful nature), but I'd guess that he'll speak directly to voters and try to make a direct human connection that will make smear attacks harder to stick.

This speaks to the potential of using web-delivered video to help accomplish this.  The mass media can't be counted on to cover an authentic candidate in a way that conveys that authenticity.  It doesn't fit their standard campaign frames.  But if Obama can supplement paid ads with lots of longer-form web video messages (some of which will go viral), then he'll have a powerful tool to deal with smears and the MSM's tendency to distort, debase and trivialize.

by mitchipd 2007-02-10 08:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I thought Senator Obama's speech was terrific, along with his website and call to citizen support and participation.  He is declaring a populist grassroots oriented campaign and wants that to be his mandate when he gets to the White House.  From the size of the crowd he is alrady on to something.

Take a look at his campaign funding proposals lately, and consider what impact that might have later in the campaign.  Interesting stuff.

So far, so good.  I reckon he has hit all the early markers for this campaign and has established himself as a front-runner candidate with a popular base of support, not yet beholding to any demographic or special interest groups.  Except Democrats, of course.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 01:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread
He didn't end his speach with "God bless America".
I think that he has my vote.
by snowy 2007-02-10 02:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Yeah, I noticed that too.  He said "I love you."

by benny06 2007-02-10 02:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

He didn't have any flags either.  I am totally sick of God and the flag (a little bunting; I am cool with that).  Clinton and Edwards seem to be trying to out God and the flag the R's.

by snowy 2007-02-10 04:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

You should rewatch the video about the flags.  The set-up had three or four hanging, but I agree the cameras didn't show them when he spoke.  The flags were high up and far away.

by benny06 2007-02-10 05:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I watched it, and I have a lot to say.  

As a general rule of thumb, if you don't do it, no one will.

by Matt Stoller 2007-02-10 02:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I don't want specifics from Obama now. I want to feel that there is a plan to win an electoral victory in Nov 2008 that will place the continued existence of the Republican Party in doubt.

The game we always play is politics vs. politics. We want the candidate to give us all his Fantasy stats so we can play "the election game". But we know on the other hand that if the candidate does that, he's likely to get skewered. The more specific your points are, the more likely it is that they can be framed in a bad light. Plus, you've put all that quotable material out there as sample and loop fodder for Fox News editors. Obama said "No amount of American lives" can solve another country's civil war. Apparently Fox today is altering this by leaving out the words "No amount", making the statement appear to be a horrible one.

You all are fighting the last war. My DD appears to be more Obama friendly than Daily Kos, Kos' prediction and Stoller's declaration notwithstanding. But you are still analyzing the next election in terms of the last one.

That is correct as far as close detailed analysis of Congressional races goes. But you are not calculating the upside of Obama as nominee and as President.

Here's my problem, the paradox that has me tearing my hair over bloggers. You argue very cogently that the MSM has to be continually countered because it puts out misinformation. But then you come back to the discussion with the same elements and the same frame.

You have to use your imagination in order to reach reality. Foreign policy is not the way it has been presented. The economic situation of the US is not as it has been presented.

The current administration didn't really care about foreign policy except as it might impact domestic voting intentions.

The next administration will have to convince the rest of the world that there really are two parties in the US by conducting itself differently.

Obama will create political power from a source that other candidates can't tap - the world. In previous years the travels of Presidents have been gaffe-hunts.

But imagine Obama and Nelson Mandela putting out a joint communiqué.

The most dangerous thing that could ever happen to the United States - worse than a dozen bombs - would be for the rest of the world to decide that it is just another grubby country after all. Our properity is not something we made with our own two hands. It is a gift that history gave us, and for a reason.

by frenchman 2007-02-11 05:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Smiley mentioned Obama in his opening statement about those who had run for President:

Shirley, Jesse, Carol, Al, and now Barack.

by benny06 2007-02-10 02:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

When Obama talks about the audacity of hope it reminds me way too much of Bush's compassionate conservatism bulslhit back in 1999.

What Obama says in his speeches is top-notched stuff, but it's mostly rhetoric and fluff.

His Iraq War plan=fluf
His Healthcare plans=fluff
His Poverty Rhetoric=fluff
His Hope Talk=fluff

HRC and Obama are peaking in the polls right now and once the debates start Edwards will be in the perfect position to take Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Carolina-Oklahoma.

Look at what Edwards has done domestically and overseas with poverty. It's amazing!!

by Djneedle83 2007-02-10 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Can we please stop with the ridiculous bashing of the Iraq war plans from the candidates we don't support?

Obama has a serious Iraq war proposal to begin withdrawing troops in May and finish in March 2008.  

Edwards has a serious Iraq war proposal to immediately begin drawing down troops and finish 12-18 months later.

Richardson has a serious Iraq war proposal to bring all the troops home by the end of 2007.

Etc.

If you want to argue that Hillary Clinton has a worse strategy to end the war, fine, since as far as I can tell her plan is for troops to start leaving by the end of Bush's presidency with no binding timeline or anything.  If you want to argue that Edwards' approach to ending the war is better than Obama's, or that Richardson's plan is more realistic, or that Clark is the only one with the experience to pull it off, fine.  

But can we please get away from the "everybody but my candidate isn't doing anything to end the war" nonsense?

by TimSackton 2007-02-10 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

His Iraq War plan= 1. Don't go in vs. Edwards and Clinton
                            = 2. Out in 18 months.

His Healthcare plans= Only candidate to actually put up universal health care legislation.

His Poverty Rhetoric= Rebuilding US economy especially via alternative energy.

His Hope Talk= vision for the future.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

The first debate is in South Carolina on April, 26th.

Hillary is going to get exposed by both Obama and Edwards in the first debate.

She may possibly be the worst debater alive among current politicans in the United States congress. Public speaking is not her forte, but she is still a decent senator.  

However, Edwards will rip her apart to pieces.  

On the other hand, Edwards and Obama should have a lively debate about the major issues. That should be fun to watch.

The debate may be a little like Ned Lamont and Alan Schlesinger teamming up against Lieberman durring the Ct-Sen debates.

Maybe the Larouche crowd will show up and start singing how Hillary is in bed with big money corporations.

However, Lieberman is a much more skilled politican than Hillary Clinton.

by Djneedle83 2007-02-10 03:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

The first debate is in South Carolina on April, 26th.

By citing the April debate, are you excluding the one in Nevada later this month? Obama's campaign has said he just couldn't fit it into his schedule, even though he'll be making stops in Nevada in February.

by Books Alive 2007-02-10 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

The Nevada event isn't a debate.  The candidates will not be on stage at the same time.

by asahopkins 2007-02-11 09:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I think Hillary's basic problem is that she hates to lose and her support has probably peaked or gone close to it.  With exposure Obama can only gain and likely at her expense, Edwards seems to have a solid base among those who are hoping for the second coming of FDR.

If Hillary sees her support sag as a consequence of Obama's message I am guessing she will start attacking him and risk negative perceptions, which I believe is the last thing she can afford to do.  Whatever the reaction it will be a scrappy chapter in this upcoming campaign.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 04:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"I think Hillary's basic problem is that she hates to lose and her support has probably peaked or gone close to it."

Her numbers have continued to go up against Republicans and Democratic competitors so she is definitely the favorite at this point.

I don't think a lot of people have considered Obama as the alternative but will when they are all together for the first debates.

He's going to look a the real new deal and folks are going to give him a shot.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I agree, and then she is going to go ballistic... Hard to say whether she and Edwards or she and Obama tangle first.  I was kinda' glad to see Obama step out of the Nevada presentation on that basis, but it isn't really a debate, is it?  And it may depend on which of them starts it with her first which makes me think Edwards is more likely, he's got to get some oxygen in all of this and it hasn't been peaches and cream for him lately.

But it is gonna' happen sooner or later, with one or both of them.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 08:12PM | 0 recs
The upcoming debates

"Hillary is going to get exposed by both Obama and Edwards in the first debate."

Hillary is very good talking extemporaneously as the videos of her town meetings demonstrate.

So the idea that she's going to "exposed" is wishful thinking since the "exposure" will reveal a smart, good on her feet, experienced technocrat.

Edwards comes across as a very smart politician, very engaging.

Obama comes across as in authentic and inspirational leader.

I think that will be the difference and why Obama will start to pull ahead after the debates begin.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-10 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Obama is acceptable, but he disappoints me.  He is right on the most important issues, like Iraq, which puts him leagues ahead of the more entrenched Democratic Party candidates like Hillary or Biden.

But all this inspiration and hope and unity and fluff and more fluff just makes me want to vomit.  That's mostly an aesthetic thing, I suppose.

It's wrong to say that America wants more optimism and hope and belief.  We have had that in huge quantities for the last five years.  Lots of hope and wishes and optimism and steering straight, full steam ahead into iceberg after iceberg.  I could use less hope and more practicality.  Obama's whole schtick comes off as the typical "young and hip" Democratic insurgent candidate, the kind teenagers want to put on straw hats and campaign for, but nobody takes seriously in the long run.

What I really wish we had was somebody that is fed up as we are, and ready to start cleaning house the first day.  That would fill me with hope.

by Dumbo 2007-02-10 03:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Give the man a chance, he is a doer but he has a massive task ahead of him.  He is trying to tell us he can't do it alone.

If we can give him a grassroots mandate to govern without owing favours to special interests he will be more able to do the things you and I want and expect him to do.  You aren't the only one who is totally fed up, Obama just expresses himself differently about it.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

We haven't had optimism or hope in a long time. We've had people shoving optimism and hope in the face of obvious failure down our throats. The thing is Obama seems sincere to me when it comes to his talk about optimism and hope and THAT is a welcome change in my opinion.

For one, I am OPTIMISTIC about our chances in 2008 and I have HOPE that whoever we do elect can at least start to extricate us from the mess we are in.

by JDF 2007-02-10 05:35PM | 0 recs
State of Black America

This is an annual event, one I've watched in its entirety some years. I think we can allow it to be upstaged for a few hours one time. It's always possible that C-Span will re-air some sessions.

by Books Alive 2007-02-10 03:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

West is a tough one to impress.  I missed the pm session.  Was he supporting Obama and what else did he have to say?

by benny06 2007-02-10 04:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Thanks for your impressions.  I will look for the re-airing of the second session.

Smiley always impresses me with the panels he has on that annual event.  He and his crew work hard to make it meaningful, especially when folks have to get there at 8am on a Sat morning.  

I thought Gov Kaine gave Smiley a nice theme to work with and I want to revisit Jamestown since it's been 25 years ago this summer I was there.  

by benny06 2007-02-10 05:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I went to the announcement in Springfield today.

by vwcat 2007-02-10 05:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I wish I had been there.  Moments in history.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-02-10 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

I liked the speech.

I watched the re-run on C-Span.

What shocked me is the effect it had on my mother. She had been so set, I thought, in the Hillary camp.

She watched the speech a second time this afternoon. The way she talked about it - something changed for her.

Me?

I went and gave my first donation.

by rikyrah 2007-02-10 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

Lucas -- thanks for adding this point about the State of Black America to the conversation. Yes, it is a shame that SBA was inevitably overshadowed. I hope that you and other bloggers will take time to note your impressions from it. What African-Americans are thinking and wanting right now should be a major priority for Democratic candidates -- ultimately they can't win the race for president without a strong turnout from this loyal demographic.

What the blogs and the MSM need to understand is that Tavis Smiley represents a new and truly influential set of black leaders. Right now -- in the black community at large, Tavis Smiley has as much or more influence as Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton in setting the agenda. Smiley is a NY Times multiple bestselling author who is shaping the discussion and leading progressive activism. He's an incredibly important figure right now.

The SBA was re-run last year on TVOne (the cable channel) I believe and/or on PBS, so if you missed it, I would expect it will still be available for viewing. Tivo it!

by Jill Tubman 2007-02-10 09:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Announcement Open Thread

"As was said today by Dr. Julia Hare, there's a difference between Black Leaders and Leading Blacks. The one is chosen by blacks, the other by whites."

Obama is a leader...not just a "black" leader.  Obama is the ultimate vision of Martin Luther King.

by BrionLutz 2007-02-11 05:48AM | 0 recs

Diaries

Advertise Blogads


----------- myDD - skin -----------