Clinton Still Barely Rivals Obama Primary Fundraising

Part of the candidate blogger series for Obama

Sometimes it's important to take a moment to wonder at how wildly improbable Obama's rise has been.

In the span of a handful of years, a black state senator from the South Side of Chicago, a community organizer and constitutional law professor, has surged across the national scene --- partly due to the spectacular collapse of a series of better-funded, better-known, and better-connected opponents in an Illinois race that led to Obama being placed on the stage of the 2004 DNC Convention --- an event to which Obama could not even get tickets in 2000.

This baffling improbability, the sheer audacity of it all, doesn't lessen his appeal to his supporters --- it makes him that much more compelling.

I was tired of being embarrassed every time our national political leadership appeared on television; tired of a lack of vision and a sheer inability or unwillingness to articulate a compelling set of values that progressives share; sick and tired of a political leadership in Washington unable to stand up on the single most important foreign policy decision of our generation --- and unable even to apologize for the mistake.

It's that simple.  

There is a group of political leaders in this country who bowed to political pressure and voted to launch a war in Iraq, and there is a group that took a stand.  

Why should we reward a candidate like Hillary Clinton for her "experience" when she failed on the most critical decision of our lifetime?  Why should we dutifully continue to promote leaders who fail us?

Let's talk about fundraising, since it's the story of the week.  This year, as Kos pointed out, Obama has raised more than $75 million for the 2008 primary campaign, while Clinton has managed $62 million.  That's the net result we all need to keep in mind, when we subtract all of Clinton's efforts to buttress her numbers with $15 million dollars in general election contributions from her biggest donors and her use of a loophole in campaign finance law to transfer funds from her Senate account.

Let's review:
Clinton spent last fall walking to Senate reelection, all the while amassing a massive war chest to ward off rivals for the Democratic presidential primary --- at a time when those funds ($10 million) could have well been used in close House and Senate races across the country and control of Congress was at stake.

Clinton had the gall to host a fundraising event this quarter whose crassness simply boggles the mind --- to which she outright sold access to the chairs of House Homeland Security subcommittees to Washington lobbyists for defense contractors like Halliburton.

Clinton has had the gall to defend her acceptance of lobbyist funds by arguing lobbyists defend real Americans --- such as "nurses" and "social workers." According to OpenSecrets.org, courtesy of TPM, in 2006 nurses and social workers spent a combined $759,238 lobbying Washington, while just the United States Chamber of Commerce spent $72,740,000 and the pharmaceutical and insurance lobby a combined $302,766,941.

This is not a difficult decision.  It is not even an unclear decision.  This is a decision about the future of our party and our country between two different directions.

There is a clear difference between Clinton raising over two thirds (70%) of her funds from donors of $2,300 or more, and Obama less than half.  There is a clear difference between Obama raising 28% of his funds from donors under $200 and Clinton raising 9% --- a percentage, by the way, behind McCain, Romney, and Giuliani.

Obama's record in the US Senate on ethics reform here, his presidential campaign ethics proposals here.

Tags: Barack Obama, Fundraising, Hillary Clinton, President 2008 (all tags)

Comments

104 Comments

Re: Clinton Still Barely...

Let's talk about fundraising, since it's the story of the week.  This year, as Kos pointed out, Obama has raised more than $75 million for the 2008 primary campaign, while Clinton has managed $62 million.

Doesn't that imply that neither of them had the choice what they were going to designate as primary vs. general funds? If Obama has $75 mill for the primary, it is because he feels he needs it for the primary. If Hillary has $62 million for the primary, it is because she feels that's what she needs for the primary.

by bowiegeek 2007-10-03 01:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Still Barely...

No, not really. Most of the general money comes from people giving more then the limit for the primary, and it overflows towards the general fund.

the general money comes mostly from people that give $4.600 in one go.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 01:56PM | 0 recs
Primary Fundraising

If this wasn't on the front page, I'd recommend it in a heartbeat.

I think Obama should introduce a bill requiring presidents to disclose the donors to their library.  Bill Clinton has refused to voluntarily do this.  What is he trying to hide?  Why won't Hillary push him to change his mind?

Obama is great on ethics and needs to call our Lady Evita out on this.

by Vox Populi 2007-10-03 01:49PM | 0 recs
Why should Bill Clinton do what others have not?

There is legislation pending and he has said he will abide by it retroactively should it pass, if I am not mistaken.  But why should he do what others have not and won't do unless forced to?  Why give people like you a list of a 1000s of names to poor overly looking for one bad apple that your will in turn use to attack his wife?  

Why would Bill give YOU that opportunity if others, like the Bushs', don't have to disclose.

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-03 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Why should Bill Clinton do what others have no

In a word, transparency.  It is pretty obvious that Senator Obama made this move because he is convinced he has nothing to hide.  What are you worried about?  It is no accident that many of Senator Obama's ethics reforms have been resisted on both sides of the aisle.  But this is the candidate whose detractors claim he is an 'empty suit.'  Go figure.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 02:05PM | 0 recs
Worried? Please grow up.

This is politics.  Poor over 1000 names and I am 100% sure you will find some embrassments.  No doubt.  But again, why give people like YOU the easy get?  Make people like YOU work to slander them.

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-03 02:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Worried? Please grow up.

I guess it comes down to being prepared to change or not.  And what kind of person am I, not quite sure what your point is with that.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 02:12PM | 0 recs
Besides it is insulting

Hillary Clinton doesn't have a library and Bill isn't running.

Nobody here is suggesting that we pour over Michelle Obama's history or past financial dealings.

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-04 03:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Worried? Please grow up.

DP Amen to that.  If Hillary has to release her list then I want to see Obama's.  I want to see the people who would continue to throw money away on a candidate who has not moved in the polls since February.  

by changehorses08 2007-10-03 09:40PM | 0 recs
Loot for the Empty Suit

Shaun -- Obama is an EMPTY SUIT.  He wants to run on his personality alone.  But Dems voters don't want a charismatic candidate with no substance.  They don't want a deal maker -- an appeaser.  Obama doesn't have what it takes to run a country, if he can't take on his fellow Democrats. Why does he consistently run away from his fellow candidates unless he is afraid of the competition?

by changehorses08 2007-10-03 09:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Loot for the Empty Suit

I totally disagree for compelling reasons described elsewhere, you are repeating a hollow campaign meme with no intention but to promote the candidate of your choice and at the expense of your intellectual honesty.  You are entitled to your opinion, of course, and I know better than to try to convince you otherwise but would appreciate that your criticisms were something more than wholly subjective and intentionally destructive.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-04 01:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Loot for the Empty Suit

To have made these criticisms in January or February of 07 would have been hollow I agree.  But I have watched this candidate for for 10 months and I feel that he doesn't have a compelling reason to want to be President. He praises Republicans and disses Dems and generally tries to keep away from other candidates.  If I didn't support Hillary I would support Joe Biden because he stands for something. With Obama, when you want beef he gives you cotton candy.  You like to hear him speak, I'm sure and he does that very well but sometime really listen to the words.  There is nothing concrete there.  A president affects all our lives.  This one would be Bush-lite. We can't afford another Bush, even a lite one.

by changehorses08 2007-10-04 10:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Loot for the Empty Suit

I would ask you if you were joking but I know you aren't.  I wonder who left the door open and let all the Dixiecrats into the room.  Didn't we get rid of you bunch back in '64?

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-04 12:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Loot for the Empty Suit

You love Obama so much why would you say he is losing? You have to admit he is no longer the new kid on the block and he can't bob and weave his way to the White House.  Why doesn't he want to appear with the other Democratic Candidates?  Is he afraid he is over matched?  You Obama supporters act like Bushies.  We are supposed to forgive anything Obama says or does because he is new.  Sorry, been there done that.  

by changehorses08 2007-10-04 07:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Loot for the Empty Suit

Look, we obviously disagree about Senator Obama's motives, qualifications and chances.  I can accept that.  But if you are so convinced he is losing why are you taking so many subjective and dismissive shots at him?  What has he done to piss you off?

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-04 08:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Loot for the Empty Suit

You love Obama so much why would you say he is losing? You have to admit he is no longer the new kid on the block and he can't bob and weave his way to the White House.  Why doesn't he want to appear with the other Democratic Candidates?  Is he afraid he is over matched?  You Obama supporters act like Bushies.  We are supposed to forgive anything Obama says or does because he is new.  Sorry, been there done that.  

by changehorses08 2007-10-04 07:21PM | 0 recs
Well said

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-04 04:05AM | 0 recs
others have not?

Accountability and transparency.  Our guys are supposed to be better than the other side.  Hillary said she supports Bill releasing his list.  And frankly, it's better that it comes out now than in October next year.

I'm sure we'll see Marc Rich, Rupert Murdoch, the Saudi royal family, and lots of other stellar folks on that list of contributors.

by Vox Populi 2007-10-03 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Money isn't Leadership

Your arguments all support choosing John Edwards as our presidential nominee.  Edwards election to the senate was quite improbable and amazing in Jesse Helms home state and against a republican incumbent.

Edwards has led on vision, health care, being loud and vocal about leaving Iraq, developing foreign policy that is focused on lifting people up and not bombing them.   He recognized in 2003 when Bush proved himself to be untrustworthy that you don't give him the money.  Edwards voted against the appropriations that continue the war.  

Edwards has led on not taking PAC and K Street lobbyist money since 1998.  He now has taken action to demonstrate his support of public financing.  

Edwards has the fighting spirit and the trial lawyer smarts that we need in a leader right now.  

Obama has the right intentions, but he is not leading with his actions.    

by pioneer111 2007-10-03 01:54PM | 0 recs
Yeah...

...except he gave his seat back to a Republican, which hurt us in NC pretty damn bad. And his positions have swung far to the left since he was a pretty "moderate" senator. The change is welcome, but seems a little politically expedient. Meanwhile, Richard Burr and Elizabeth Dole - two of the lamest people in DC - represent NC in the Senate.

by faithfull 2007-10-03 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah...

First point, he did not give his seat back to the Republicans.  He would have won it but he resigned soon enough for the next person to campaign - it could have been won by someone who would have worked for it harder.  Edwards decided that preparing for a presidential run was probably best out of the senate and I think he was right.

From Fox News exit polls (and they were not likely to favor Edwards)

In the senate race, the Republicans gained the seat formerly held by John Edwards (search). If Edwards had run for reelection against Republican Richard Burr (search), it appears Edwards would have held on to his seat by a 53 percent -- 47 percent margin. Seven percent of those voters that would have voted for Edwards voted for Burr.

If Edwards had been the top of the ticket he would have won the presidency for Democrats.  

He was always a populist though he took some time to connect how legislation really impacts people

Second point, how does your post address the points I made?  

by pioneer111 2007-10-03 02:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah...

I'm not out to demonize Edwards the way you are Obama, but he was my Senator in NC, and it disappointed a lot of people, myself included, that he chose to run for the presidency (which there is no evidence he "would have won") rather than serving North Carolina. We knew that there was a good chance a Republican would take that seat, and they did.

1) I agree he would have won his senate seat back, and wish he had, even though he took some detestable positions (the war, mountaintop removal mining), he also took some very respectable ones (poverty, economic fairness), which is more than you can say for Burr or Dole.

2) You said he was our best candidate for presidency and...

Edwards election to the senate was quite improbable and amazing in Jesse Helms home state and against a republican incumbent.

...so I figured you might be curious as to what some in NC thought about his Senate career. Even Edwards's partisans can learn right?

by faithfull 2007-10-03 02:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah...

Give me a break.  Where have I demonized Obama?  I didn't even mention Obama in this post.

Don't put words into my mouth or fingers that I haven't put down.  I have not ever demonized Obama.

In fact I have said that I see positives in Obama but not for this cycle as POTUS.    

Of course people liked and disliked Edwards, but more liked him since he won in NC.  He did not get 100% of the vote.

by pioneer111 2007-10-04 02:21PM | 0 recs
Spinning your wheels

Camp Obama has been flogging this vote 5 years ago since spring.  Look where it has positioned him in the race.  He has gone down not up.

Furthermore it is hard to look at the FACTS and say Obama took any stands.  He gave a speech.  That is it, a speech.  He didn't vote.  He even admitted later to the NY Time that had he been in the Senate at the time and had to vote, he wasn't sure how he would have voted.  Not much a stand there.

As for corporate interests, let be real here.  You don't raise the money Clinton and Obama have raised online.  You don't do it by selling $5 buttons.   Open you eyes and be objective.  Look at where Obama gets his money.  He gets more from commerical banks, for instance, than any of the other candidate.  He gets more from big pharma than the rest as well.  He is no virgin.

In the end the voters will look at the candidates as a whole and weight all the issues, and all the attributes and all the skills, and they will weigh the state of the nation, so to speak, and they will pick the best candidate.

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-03 01:57PM | 0 recs
ny times

The NY Times interview has been dissected a million times.  It was on the eve of the convention.  Obama has been invited by Kerry to give the keynote address, and he declined the opportunity to criticize Kerry and Edwards in a show of solidarity.  Enough already.

by psericks 2007-10-03 02:05PM | 0 recs
Thats your take 4 years later

Thats not how it sounded at the time.

By the way, why would he allow his judgement to take a back seat for political reasons?   That would be the easy thing to do.  That certainly wouldn't be different.

Of course that last paragraph was a bit tongue in cheek.  It is hard to be different, isn't it?  

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-03 02:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Still Barely Rivals Obama Primary Fund

Of course if you're going to fault Hillary for not giving all her money to the DNC it might be nice to mention that somehow she still managed to be amongst the most generous contributors to the DNC, DCCC, DSCC and individual candidates that cycle...

Far more so then then any other candidate now running.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 02:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Still Barely Rivals Obama Primary Fund

Well given she has been building a network of fund-raising and mutual obligation among Democrats in the interest of her presidential ambitions since 2000 it is hardly surprising.  Meritorious, to be sure, but aligned with her ambitions as well.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 02:08PM | 0 recs
Classic

She bad person if she no give.

If she give she bad person.

LOL!

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-03 02:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Classic

Who said anything about bad?  Surely you don't dispute she has been patiently, diligently building the infrastructure and network for a presidential run since her election as senator in 2000.  I am not making a judgement on that, it was part of the rationale for New Yorkers supporting her non-native election to the seat in the first place.  But it does give an insight into her motives and choices throughout her Senate career.  I didn't think there was any doubt on that point.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 02:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Classic

Actually that depends on which New Yorkers you mean. The political establishment, certainly. But she had to overcome quite a bit of resistance amongst the voters about the fact that she was non-native if I remember correctly. She had to promise quite strongly that she wouldn't run for president during that term.

And still she slightly underperformed Gore due to that.

But you're right that there was an alignment with her ambitions, that's always the case if somebody is that active nationally. Obama and Edwards were also running around helping out where they can and creating good will for future runs. It's all in the name of the game.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 03:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Classic

Do you feel that Bobby Kennedy had no right to run as Senator of NY when he was from Massachusetts?  How about Rudy Giuliani former Mayor of NY running for President?  No mayor has ever become president.  The fact is that NYC is the center of the media empire and so it attracts star politicans. Hillary winning in NY however, had everything to do with the electorate and they welcomed her.

by changehorses08 2007-10-03 09:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Classic

Not questioning any of that.  As I said no judgement in that and New Yorkers basically welcomed her, give or take a few, myself included.  My point was it was perfectly clear that she was intending to use the seat as a stepping off point to the presidency, even then, just as it was for RFK.  Consequently it is also clear that she has been patiently and consistently working towards this campaign, as I was trying to demonstrate, since that time.  Which was my answer to the up-thread comment about her rolling over her senatorial fund-raising to this campaign, it was all part of the plan.  One has to take that into account when comparing her figures to Obama's, you see.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 09:47PM | 0 recs
Yes you were

You were implying that it was a bad thing to be building an organization and trying to win.

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-04 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: Yes you were

I was saying she over-raised money for her senate race to jump start her presidential campaign and you know it.  Get your story straight once in awhile.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-04 12:55PM | 0 recs
2006 Fundraising

Clinton raised $50 million dollars for her Senate race, spending a mind-boggling $40 million on a cakewalk race and leaving $10 million around for her presidential campaign.

Obviously I'm not claiming she should have given it to the campaign committees, but please explain to me why that kind of spending and hitting up of Democratic donors was necessary.

by psericks 2007-10-03 02:11PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising
She outraised her Republican opponent ten-to-one.  
All these stats from OpenSecrets.
by psericks 2007-10-03 02:19PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

And unlike her Republican opponent she not only won and helped candidates down ticket get into the House of representatives, she supported and helped our national party and it's candidates.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

You are being intellectually dishonest. That forty million also includes all the millions she spend hosting fund raisers for other candidates and millions she donated to candidates, the millions she  gave to the commissions, etc.

And yes spend that money also on her senate campaign to make it easily upgradeable to a presidential campaign.

as for Obviously I'm not claiming she should have given it to the campaign committees

You actually did:

at a time when those funds ($10 million) could have well been used in close House and Senate races across the country and control of Congress was at stake.

You portray her here as only interested in herself while she was one of the most generous and active supporters of the party that cycle, the only one who could to her was Kerry who used his leftover money and structure of '04.

I've explained the spending, and unlike your framing it's included some pretty decent reasons.

as for why it was necessary? Why not? Raising aren't a zero sum game.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

Calling out Clinton for the sheer size of her huge campaign fund left over after election day is not to say she should have donated every cent.

Second, who's being intellectually dishonest?

That forty million also includes all the millions she spend hosting fund raisers for other candidates and millions she donated to candidates, the millions she gave to the commissions, etc.
You're just making stuff up as you go along.  I'm sure that accounts for her entire spending...

I'm not portraying her as only interested in herself.  I'm portraying her as hording a tremendous amount of resources that could have been much better spent on things other than frightening off presidential rivals.  This is not to say that she didn't make important contributions to the party, just that her efforts had obvious shortcomings.

Clinton isn't the only one.  The DCCC and DSCC are constantly begging safe incumbents to part with some of their huge campaign war-chests to help out more.  Clinton is just an egregious example.

by psericks 2007-10-03 03:29PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

It might be pointed out also that a considerable amount of her money may have been spent creating a national electoral information technology infrastructure which I have been told by some of her supporters rivals that of the DNC.  I think 'rival' is a key word here and have some concerns that this is an initiative which challenges one of the roles of the DNC in the party.

I don't have any specific links or evidence to substantiate this assertion, however, and would be interested in hearing from anyone, pro or con, who has credible information on the subject.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 03:43PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

McAucliff is busy with a commercial voter vault for the democratic candidates that is a direct competitor with the DNC's efforts. But that's not related to the campaign. However she's sure to have access to that of course.

But that's all I know about anything in that direction.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 03:56PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

Thanks, so it isn't correct that she used part of her senatorial campaign funds for that or related projects?  If so, apologies for promoting that misconception.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 04:00PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

I've got no idea. I haven't heard of it, but you're just as likely to know as I, more probably as I'm over in Europe.

I'm not really sure why they would though. She's not going independent and the nominee has almost complete control of the DNC. So if she ends up the nominee she would have two versions of such a system. seems a bit redundant to me.

From what I heard she did spend a lot on voting lists specific polling data, etc. and other such things, that could be multi used for both the senate race and the presidential race but that's a pretty standard trick and not what you mean I think.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 04:38PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

Cheers.  I was really basing my assumption on something I believe HWC mentioned once in the context of the power struggle between Hillary and the DNC which he seemed to freely acknowledge, and the creation by her allies of a stand-alone capability which challenged the DNC's role.  I'm equally out of the environment as you, living in Australia now.  Which probably explains why you and I are often both posting at odd hours.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 05:02PM | 0 recs
I just moved to France from Germany.

Funny that we're all abroad.

by psericks 2007-10-03 05:13PM | 0 recs
Re: I just moved to France from Germany.

Indeed.  I find particularly strong interest in foreign affairs on this site among those who are living, or have lived, abroad.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 05:28PM | 0 recs
Re: I just moved to France from Germany.

About the same corner even, I'm in the Netherlands.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 05:40PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

Well there is a bit of a power struggle between them unfortunately. Terry McAuliff seems to think that Dean is mismanaging the DNC. But any power struggle would be over as soon as the nomination is known. then it would probably be Terry McAuliffe back in the saddle. He's a better fundraiser and more structured, but lesser on strategy, he's more focused on the presidency over building the party.

I'd like Dean as head of the DNC as well as Hillary as candidate. But I don't think that'll happen.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 05:16PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

I agree, and without going in to the pros and cons of the Dean chairmanship it is refreshing to discuss this with a Hillary supporter who is at least willing to concur on the implications of Hillary's candidacy on the 'progressive' or Dean-aligned wing of the party, whatever one cares to call it.  It makes for a much more meaningful and nuanced discussion.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 05:26PM | 0 recs
Here ya go

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2006/03/07/AR2006030701860. html

A group of well-connected Democrats led by a former top aide to Bill Clinton is raising millions of dollars to start a private firm that plans to compile huge amounts of data on Americans to identify Democratic voters and blunt what has been a clear Republican lead in using technology for political advantage.

The effort by Harold Ickes, a deputy chief of staff in the Clinton White House and an adviser to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), is prompting intense behind-the-scenes debate in Democratic circles. Officials at the Democratic National Committee think that creating a modern database is their job, and they say that a competing for-profit entity could divert energy and money that should instead be invested with the national party.

Ickes and others involved in the effort acknowledge that their activities are in part a vote of no confidence that the DNC under Chairman Howard Dean is ready to compete with Republicans on the technological front. "The Republicans have developed a cadre of people who appreciate databases and know how to use them, and we are way behind the march," said Ickes, whose political technology venture is being backed by financier George Soros.

"It's unclear what the DNC is doing. Is it going to be kept up to date?" Ickes asked, adding that out-of-date voter information is "worse than having no database at all."

This is just half of the picture. The database is useless without the microtargeted polling. The goal is to identify specific characteristics that correlate with your voters. For example, married women, in "x" income level, in this zip code, who subscribe to that magazine, vote 4 to 1 for Clinton. The groundwork for this effort requires a massive polling operation because the subgroups you are looking for are small.

Sample research on unmarried women:

http://www.wvwv.org/docs/ppt/unmarriesam 0628.pdf

Additionally, look at this report of the test marketing to unmarried women in 2006:

http://www.wvwv.org/docs/reg_and_mob_200 6.pdf

by hwc 2007-10-03 06:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Here ya go

Thanks very much, that's very interesting.  Wow.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 06:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Here ya go

Then it was Ickes, not McAuclif. appearntly I had them mixed up. Sorry...

by Ernst 2007-10-04 06:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Here ya go

Why does it have to be either or?  I think having a data base which identifies potential Democratic voters in all categories is a good thing.  So is Dean's 50 state strategy. The Dems win if more people vote. Whatever it takes lets make it happen. Voters always identify themselve with Democratic issues and yet tend to vote Republican. We need to do whatever it takes to translate our issues into votes.

by changehorses08 2007-10-03 09:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Here ya go

Well, unfortunately, it seems that we can have either Dean or Hillary but not both.  At least that is my understanding of the conventional wisdom on the subject.  I would prefer that Dean remained as chairman of the DNC, in any event, and I think the 50-state strategy is a sound one.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 09:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Here ya go

I agree that the 50 state strategy is a good one.  When Roosevelt won in 1932 he won 48 out of 50 states.  The Dems have ceded the South to the Republicans since the Civil Rights Act of 1965.  However, this election could be very much like 1932 in that almost all Americans are hurting equally.  The wedge issues will not be enough to get the Republicans back in again. Republicans don't like governing because they are incompetent at it. We should be able to have a date base and the 50 state strategy too.  Whatever it takes to have a permanent majority so Americans are made invisible to our Government again.

by changehorses08 2007-10-03 11:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Here ya go

I agree with you.  I don't think the Republicans should be underestimated but I see a chance for improving our majorities.  And for once the fund-raising seems to be there to support an ambitious national strategy.  I think you mean visible, don't you?

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 11:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Here ya go

Visable yes lol.  

by changehorses08 2007-10-04 09:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Here ya go

Visable yes lol.  

by changehorses08 2007-10-04 09:29AM | 0 recs
Make that the 49-state strategy

The Florida Democratic Party is filing a lawsuit tomorrow against the DNC.

by hwc 2007-10-04 12:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Make that the 49-state strategy

Yeah, I read that too.  It's a shocker but I still maintain the four-state agreement should be retained among Democrats.  Looks like the Republicans really outmanoeuvred us on that one.  Have you read the kind of stuff that's going on there now?  It is deplorable.  From the NYT:


Florida Republicans have been having a field day with the national-state Democratic flap over the primary date. First they urged Democrats to enroll as members of the G.O.P. to make sure their votes would be counted. And this week, they set up a Web site, showing in large pictures unflattering images of Florida Democratic chairwoman Karen Thurman (frowning) and D.N.C. chairman Howard Dean (the scream).

On the Web site, a quote reads: "Democratic candidates have held only 44 events in Florida but have raised over $7,257,335 from Floridians." The site also includes pictures of various Democratic candidates laughing and grinning and smiling, with a tally of how much each has raised in the state.

Abby Goodnough - NYT 3 Oct 07

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-04 12:44AM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

O wait I also said: And yes spend that money also on her senate campaign to make it easily upgradeable to a presidential campaign.

Ans she was also still running for senate in one of the most expensive states of all.

And a quick google gives me

Sen. Hillary Clinton transferred $2.1 million from her Senate re-election account to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee on 10/5. She also gave $250K to the DCCC and $150K to the New York State Democratic Party. (Hotline sources) in a single set of donations, and that was when asked by the "use it or lose it" campaign.

It's also worth noting that her contribution to individual candidates, normal dues and other donations are not factored into this. She even got props from Kos for her generosity and for leading on that issue.

If I recall correctly the total money donated in that cycle by her was somewhat more then 7 million overall. That means she gave away close to half of her unused campaign funds.

As for keeping that money to scare people of at that time Bayh and Kerry were sitting on just as much money as she was and giving every indication that they would also run. So it would be hardly intimidating enough to keep people out of running. It's not so intimidating if your merely level on campaign money.

So in the end your whole argument comes down to that you actually did wanted her to give away all that was left of her campaign war chest. Sorry no dice. Egregious example my #$$

by Ernst 2007-10-03 04:30PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

Even if you were right with your final figure of $7 million, which I'm not willing to accept, you would probably be including contributions through her PAC otherwise not included in her actual Senate campaign spending.

Hillary Clinton ran the single most expensive Senate race in the country in 2006.  There was some griping and rumors in a frontpage NyTimes story about donors complaining about the cadillac-style, consultant-heavy campaign.

Since 2001, when she took office, Mrs. Clinton has spent at least $36 million on her re-election. For 2005 and 2006 through Oct. 18, she spent $29.5 million; a final tally will not be available until next month.

At that level, she spent nearly twice as much as Senator Charles E. Schumer, her Democratic colleague from New York, did in his 2004 re-election campaign, when he spent $15.5 million and won 71 percent of the vote, four points more than Mrs. Clinton won this year.

Clinton ran a sloppy campaign and threw around way too much money.

by psericks 2007-10-03 05:11PM | 0 recs
Re: 2006 Fundraising

A piece written by Anne Kornblut with the griping  and rumors mainly supplied by: Mark McKinnon, an adviser to Senator John McCain. Riiight...

And not only have you moved the goal post from Clinton didn't give enough money!

To

Clinton ran a sloppy campaign and threw around way too much money.

That has nothing to do with your original comment, you also overlook the fact that it actually supports my point if you're able to get passed Anne's standard framing.

Yes she spend twice as much as Schumer, but she also gave more money to the various committees and spend money on preparing her campaign. But your so hung up on wanting to present her as badly as possible in order to get your diary to work you overlook all that.

If she runs such a bad campaign how come that right now she has a large presidential campaign based very on the foundation of her senate campaign but has an completely normal burn rate? It's basically the same campaign, so if her '06 campaign was as bad as you'd say then her burn rate would have to be a whole lot worse!

by Ernst 2007-10-03 05:36PM | 0 recs
Let me sum up

This thread is totally tangential to the diary, which basically pointed out that Clinton used a $10 million donation to herself to give herself a fundraising headstart and basically would be seriously trailing Obama without it --- (instead she only trails him by two or three million dollars).

The second point I made in the diary was that maintaining a reserve of $10 million is excessive and odd given that control of Congress was in the balance and we might have picked up more seats with more funds.  You can bring Kerry and Bayh into this if you like.  I would reserve the same blame for them.

I've also been saying that her spending (in the ballpark of $40 million) in the Senate was excessive given that the race was basically uncontested.  You've accounted for $2.6 million of that in gifts to DSCC, DCCC, etc.  I'm not contesting that she was one of the top givers.  That doesn't remotely change the extraordinary and unnecessary expense of that race.

That race was a pretty huge waste of resources: with unnecessary ad buys, unnecessary consulting, unnecessary polling --- unnecessary because the race was uncontested!

Clinton raised more money on her own behalf than was necessary, she spent more on her own behalf than was necessary, and, yes, I think she could have given a heck of a lot more of the money did raise to other candidates in extremely tight races.

You mostly just accuse me of having ulterior motives.

by psericks 2007-10-03 06:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Let me sum up

Are you now saying that a candidate should be blamed for doing better fundraising than the other candidates? For having more money at the start?

Are we now going to argue that candidates should not do anything that would give him/her an advantage before the start of the campaign.

How about the Obama speech in the 2004 convention? How about Edwards practically staying at Iowa? Are this not advantages also?

by glenpb1 2007-10-03 07:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Let me sum up

Um, no.  No, and no.  I'm arguing that the 2006 midterms were a critical, once-in-a-lifetime election, and Clinton was spending a mountain of resources on a blow-out victory in an uncontested race.  This isn't some deeply serious, existential charge against her.  It's a complaint.

That's obviously not to say that candidates "should be blamed for doing better fundraising" --- I'm talking about gratuitous fundraising/spending in a totally uncontested race.

by psericks 2007-10-03 11:55PM | 0 recs
I also wonder

How much of that 40 million was spent on polling and other efforts to jumpstart her current run.  I can't believe it was all spent in NY.

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-04 06:58AM | 0 recs
Obama Running Away from Constituants

The Clintons gave Obama start up money so he could run for the Senate.  He promised them he would stay in the Senate for 6 years.  He should have kept that promise.  His inexperience is showing.

by changehorses08 2007-10-03 09:16PM | 0 recs
Thanks for the diary

Recommended. Its gonna be interesting to see what happens when Obama starts shelling out some of that money, and kicking his (to my understanding) larger grassroots organization in Iowa into gear. Here's hoping it makes a difference!

by faithfull 2007-10-03 02:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Thanks for the diary

recommended...in the general sense...seeing as to how its on the fp :)

by faithfull 2007-10-03 02:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Thanks for the diary

he has started in CO, MN, MO, GA, IA, CA, it is coming and they are building.

by iamready 2007-10-03 02:23PM | 0 recs
Problem is he is going to blow too much in Iowa

If he is playing the desperate campaigners game he loses even if he wins.  

If he blows it all in two states ... say Iowa and South Carolina, he won't have the cash to build on those would be victories.  

The winners run balanced campaigns and compete almost everywhere.

by dpANDREWS 2007-10-04 07:01AM | 0 recs
Clinton has experience?

Sorry folks, but being First Lady doesn't count.  Can anyone even know what she did before Bill was elected in '92?  I sure as hell don't.  But being first lady doesn't count.  It's not experience.  

For Clinton to claim that she is the "experience" candidate is just absurd.  She's been in the Senate for 7 years, and it turns out she's willing to help the Republicans destroy this country.  So, I'm not sure that her small amount of experience counts for anything.

Obama supporters shouldn't let Clinton simply claim that she has more experience.  She doesn't.

by Reece 2007-10-03 02:51PM | 0 recs
bah typos.

Does not Can  I should stop changing my thought in mid sentence construction.

by Reece 2007-10-03 02:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton has experience?

If you don't know what she did before Bill was elected you really should educate yourself before making any comments about her experience now, right?

But you are correct that being first lady doesn't count, But being the most senior adviser to the president and a functional diplomat for 8 years kinda does.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 03:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton has experience?
the most senior adviser to the president and a functional diplomat for 8 years

That is certainly the most wildly generous description of her role that I've ever heard.
by psericks 2007-10-03 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton has experience?

100% access, around since early '70s, constantly named as having the biggest influence overall in the presidents decisions.

It seems a fitting description...

by Ernst 2007-10-03 03:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton has experience?

So now Bill Clinton isn't the brain behind Hillary's campaign, it was Hillary running the show all along.  I see...

by psericks 2007-10-03 03:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton has experience?

?I've got no idea if you are accidentally or purposely misreading me now or just wanted to snark.

She's always been his most important adviser and he hers. They've always been a two-for. They've advertised themselves as such pretty consistently over the years. I'm not saying anything new here.

And I'm pretty certain I said adviser, not "Cheney like puppet master to a weak willed Bush clone!!!1!" Both are to intellectual and strong willed for that.

by Ernst 2007-10-03 03:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton has experience?

If that's true, that she was the most senior advisor to the president, it may go a long way to explaining why he went through five Chiefs-of-Staff in two terms.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 09:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton has experience?

It no secret that her expensive role was sometimes a source of problems in the traditional hierarchy as her position competed somewhat with hers.

But four (not five if I checked it correctly) Chiefs-of-Staff in two terms is nothing special. The average per president does seem to come close to two Chiefs-of-Staff per term.

Bush Jr. might have had only two up till know, but Reagan also had 4 in his two terms. the on term Bush sr. had 3. Carter and Ford both had 2.

by Ernst 2007-10-04 07:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton has experience?

Yes, you're right.  I guess my point was if she was his closest advisor that must have really effected the role and authority of the Chief-of-Staff, as you noted.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-04 12:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton has experience?

Actually it affected the role of the vice-president more. the Chief of staff has a pretty clear job description. The role of the vice president is more malleable.

by Ernst 2007-10-04 02:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton has experience?

Fair comment, as we have seen in our recent administration where the VP self-promoted to a Darth Vader like position.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-04 02:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton has experience?

Hogwash. She was an activist first lady, neck-deep in the political spotlight, an 8-year target for the Limbaugh-types. In her trips abroad she met and cultivated the acquaintances and sometimes friendships of many international movers and shakers, making relationships she can use as a springboard to diplomacy.  Her medical-care plan came a cropper, but she has been hip-deep in the minutiae of national medical care as has no other candidate and perhaps no other person.

Prior to her 8 years as an activist national first lady and 12 years as an activist state first lady, she was a Yale lawyer who served on the House Impeachment Committee staff in Watergate, had multiple academic publications, was a long-time Board member of the Childrens' Defense Fund, was a senior partner at the most prestigious law firm in Arkansas, and was named multiple times as one of the 100 most important lawyers in America. Now she is in her second term as a Senator, where she has been one of her party's go-to opinion leaders since the day she walked onto the Senate floor, and by all accounts has been an excellent Senator who gets things done.

That's a truly outstanding resume. I don't recommend voting based on resumes, but if I did I would have to say that she has the best resume of any of the major candidates running for either party, hands-down.  Almost unparalelled political experience, significant commercial-sector, charity-sector, and public-sector experience, medical care policy creation experience, diplomatic experience, and I could go on. . . .

by Trickster 2007-10-03 04:01PM | 0 recs
In Arkansas

Hillary was very involved in Education while Bill was Governor.  When Bill ran in '92, there was evidence that he had made progress in Arkansas despite some pretty tough forces.

However, if we are to take Bill's record as hers, I think we are entitled to seriously question whether she represents a reasonable choice for a progressive.  The Clintons are THE poster children for the DLC, pure and simple.  They were for Nafta, welfare reform, and bought into the Democrats need to be tough on defense mantra.  

The Clintons support for the Iraq War was crucial in getting Tony Blair's support.

by fladem 2007-10-03 09:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Still Barely Rivals Obama Primary Fund

Nice diary on the perspective of fund raising. Obama has bested Hillary for two quarters. Suddenly she finally beats him and the news is that Hillary is on top. Typically distorted support and media frenzy.

by DoIT 2007-10-03 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Primary Fund

Clobbered him?  By $2-3 million?

Clobbered him like beat her by 50% in primary dollars in the 2nd quarter --- $31 million to $21 million?

by psericks 2007-10-03 04:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Primary Fund

I didn't miss any point. I offered my opinion. Where do you get off criticizing someone's intelligence?

by DoIT 2007-10-04 03:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton Still

Obama has done incredibly well, it is a great achievement but that's no reason not to be impressed with Clinton's efforts or try to dismiss them.  We have two really great candidates and no one I think is trying to downplay what Obama has done, which is simply fantastic over the 9 months.

But I would say she has the advantage simply because I hear his spending rate is so high- she can do the same thing he can do- and for 20 million less if they spend it all- and that will give her extra.

by reasonwarrior 2007-10-03 04:58PM | 0 recs
Obama

Obama votes for the Patriot Act.
Obama votes for the Boxer Amendment.
Obama campaigns for Lieberman against Lamont.
Obama consistently votes to fund the "dumb" war.

My hero.

by alain 2007-10-03 06:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton

There is really no need to argue with some of the Obama supporters in this diary.  They want their man to hit Hillary and destroy her candidacy and this is an urgency that will grow even stronger as Hillary continues to surge ahead.  She is now over 50 in the polls.  Obama is trailing very badly.  She also outraised him in this quarter, and she keeps getting more and more important endorsements every day, ie: The Teacher's Federation today.

Those who are anti-Hillary never in a million years expected her to be doing so well right now. But she is; and she gets stronger every day.  This is what Obama and Edwards are facing and, as far as I can see, neither of them is making any headway in overtaking Hillary, let alone even coming close.  She has so many firewall states that she doesn't even "have" to win Iowa - though I am very confident she will win Iowa.  Where is Obama leading?  Name one state besides Illinois!

He has been campaigning hard for 9 months and he is polling nationally at around 20.  And there are still people on these blogs who think there is any hope for Edwards?

Anything can happen.  I know Hillary's winning the nomination isn't carved in stone by any means; but she's in a very strong position.  And the more John and Elizabeth Edwards and Obama attack her, the better she does.  

by samueldem 2007-10-03 06:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Clinton

It is, at this point, the stated intention of his campaign to not escalate his attacks on Hillary and I think that is a smart and appropriate policy.  I would be disappointed if Senator Obama did otherwise.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 08:15PM | 0 recs
New Label Same old Soup

Sen. Obama doesn't want to appear with the other Democratic Candidates.  He wants to run on his personality alone. People who go to see him are disappointed because he is Bush-lite.  I'm sure  he is loathe to be pitted against his rivals because he always comes off like the inexperienced kid he is.  He made a speech yesterday which sounded like it could have been given by JFK during the Cold War. Obama is no longer the new kid on the block.  In fact other candidates like Dodd have had it with his rope-a-dope campaign.      

by changehorses08 2007-10-03 09:11PM | 0 recs
Re: New Label Same old Soup

If you mean that his speech addressed the reduction of the Cold War nuclear arsenal and the proliferation of nuclear weapons you are certainly correct.  And a very sensible policy that would be, too, and one he shares with Edwards, I believe.  Hillary has made no such proposal.

As for Dodd, the most recent remarks I could find were on a different topic:


U.S. Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut questioned on Friday the electability of Democratic presidential rival Hillary Clinton, saying she sports a confrontational brand of politics that turns off voters.

While Clinton, a senator from New York and wife of the former president, can probably win the general election, Dodd said, "I think people want to move on. The melodrama and all, we need to get behind us."

Dodd, who trails her in polls by a large margin, said the country is tired of continued fighting involving the Clintons and their political foes in the Republican Party.

"Isn't it time the country came together and we started solving ... problems? If it's just about a fight, a never-ending fight, the country is so turned off to that. They want leadership that will bridge those divides and bring us together as a people," he said on a taping of "Iowa Press," to be shown at 11:30 a.m. Sunday on Iowa Public Television.

Jonathan Roos - Des Moines Register 29 09 07

Food for thought there, eh?

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 09:37PM | 0 recs
Re: New Label Same old Soup

Shaun -- I have thought long and hard and I support Hillary Clinton.  She is the only one who could change the status quo.  When Bill Clinton was President the economy was great, consumer confidence was high, we had a budget surplus and we used diplomacy instead of bombs. I am not in the mood for another amateur who runs from controversary in order to hide his true agenda.  

by changehorses08 2007-10-03 11:11PM | 0 recs
Re: New Label Same old Soup

I am no fan of Hillary but I respect your point of view, I see this as an opportunity that comes rarely to really shift the agenda forward and wonder if she is inclined to do that, but that's just my personal view.  I tend to have a more positive view of Bill than Hillary.  But in any case it would be a great relief to have a Democrat in the White House again.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-03 11:38PM | 0 recs
Re: New Label Same old Soup

I agree that a Democratic President would be a great relief.  I have seen first hand what The Bush Administration has done to the housing market when I tried to list my home and found out that it was worth less than when I bought it 3 years ago.  Too many foreclosures and too many houses on the market my agent said.  One of the reasons being that even if people can afford a new home they are frightened of the future and when people are scared they don't move.  There are a myriad of other reasons why the housing market went bust but this is a major one.

Perhaps its nostalgia on my part but it wasn't so long ago that we were respected throughout the world as a beacon of democracy and ordinary Americans mattered.  Now we have a president who ignores Main Street and only listens to Wall Street's issues. This 6-1/2 departure from what has worked for over 60 years was enough of a change for me to want to go back to what works.  Thats why I support Hillary Clinton.  When you are hemorrhaging you need a turniquet not a whole new body.

by changehorses08 2007-10-04 09:12AM | 0 recs
Re: New Label Same old Soup

Just so long as the tourniquet is not applied at the neck, eh?

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-04 01:01PM | 0 recs
Re: New Label Same old Soup

Tsk Tsk--You can always work on Obama's Senate Campaign.  

by changehorses08 2007-10-04 07:25PM | 0 recs
Re: New Label Same old Soup

Yeah, but I can't vote for him in that case, which I am really looking forward to doing.  C'mon, what has he done to make you so obviously hostile?  I don't understand, if you don't like a candidate, don't vote for him.  If you really don't like him criticise him on substantive grounds and you will get a substantive response.  The only dialogue I can have with you regarding your criticism is to say I disagree with you; it's all subjective and basically pointless.  Surely we can both do better than that.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-04 08:47PM | 0 recs
Re: New Label Same old Soup

And I'm not saying Hillary is the demoness of nine planets, either, I will certainly support her if she gains the nomination.

by Shaun Appleby 2007-10-04 09:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Change Back To What Worked

by changehorses08 2007-10-03 11:13PM | 0 recs

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