Thursday Evening Thread

I didn't think it would ever come to this, but after spending six weeks on the netroots poll, two weeks dealing with media from Yearly Kos, spending the last twenty-four hours dealing with the whole TNR thing, and working on a few other netroots-centric projects, I'm actually a little tired of meta-talk about the progressive netroots right now. Of course, I say that now, but in a few hours I'll probably be boring my friends to death with netroots talk again. Anyway, here are some other topics I'd rather think about right now:
  • GQ has a lengthy interview with Senator Feingold. I guess he's stylish enough to be in GQ. I was once actually sent an email form a reporter in GQ, and I admit the thought crossed my mind that they wanted to profile me because I was the most fashionable blogger, or something along those lines. Turns out it had nothing to do with that. Oh well.

  • Tom Schaller writes about his run-in with Mudcat Saunders at Yearly Kos. For those who weren't there, apparently that panel was one of the highlights of the conference. For what it is worth, even as a staunch fifty-state strategy supporter, I am firmly in Tom's camp on the whole "southern strategy:" issue. Short-term, the majority of our pickups in Congress on a way to a majority are just not going to come form the south. Of course, that that doesn't mean we shouldn't be building the party there--we absolutely should. We just have to understand that is part of a longer-term strategy.

  • New Zogby polls on Senate and Governors races. The info is amusing, and actually a little hopeful, but I can't get too excited about polls conducted in this fashion until they prove to be at least somewhat accurate.

  • Mystery Pollster has two great posts on the political views of people in the army. Check out Part One and Part Two.

  • In light of recent events, I'd like to quote from Toby Zeigler:[TOBY ZIEGLER, ADDRESSING STAFF]

    There's an old saying: "Those who speak, don't know; and those who know, don't speak." I don't know if that's true or not, but I know that by and large the press doesn't care who really knows what as long as they've got a quote.

    Last Friday, we had our Week Ahead meeting in the Roosevelt Room. Some of you were there, most of you weren't, but I'm talking to all of you now.

    Bruno Gianelli and I were leading a discussion about whether or not the President should stop in Kansas on his way back from the West Coast, and I remarked that the Vice President is polling better than the President right now in the Plains states... and that if the President is re-elected, it's gonna be on the Vice President's coattails. That remark made its way to a White House reporter.

    We're a group. [chuckles cheerlessly] We're a team. From the President and Leo on through, we're a team...We win together, we lose together, we celebrate and we mourn together. And defeats are softened and victories sweetened because we did them together.

    And if you don't like this team... then, there's the door. It's great to be in the know. It's great to have the scoop, to have the skinny, to be able to go to a reporter and say, "I know something you don't know." And so the press becomes your constituents and you sell out the team.

    So, an item will appear in the paper tomorrow, and it'll be embarrassing to me and embarrassing to the President. I'm not gonna have a witch hunt. I'm not gonna huff and puff. I'm not gonna take anyone's head off. I'm simply gonna say this: you're my guys. And I'm yours... and there's nothing I wouldn't do for you.
We are all in this new movement together folks. I may be only 32, but I waited my whole life for a real progressive movement to come along in this country. Now we have it, and we are making some real waves. We will win and lose together. I have your backs because you have mine, and because I've seen energy in the netroots that I know will lead to the changes in America we all desire. We can do this. We just hve to stay together.

This is an open thread.

Tags: Feingold, netroots, Open Threads, public opinion, Southern Strategy (all tags)

Comments

22 Comments

Re: Thursday Evening Thread

Well said.  I am with you.

by Station Agent 2006-06-22 04:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

Do some good work tonight, it will make you feel better:

Evening ACTION ITEM: Help each other in 3 Easy Clicks

And I love that quote!

by Tracy Joan 2006-06-22 04:56PM | 0 recs
Oh, sweet irony!

I say this because Toby was fired in the show's last season for...wait for it...leaking!

Anyway, one small request: can we all listen to Ezra Klein here, step back, and chill? No magazine whose publisher endorsed a potential Gore '08 candidacy can really be considered right-wing.

How can I say this? Because I could never see The National Review doing the same.

As a commenter said over at TAPPED, for better or worse, Markos and Jerome (and to a lesser degree, you and Matt S.) are big-time inside-the-beltway players. Welcome to the bigs.

by Arkhangel 2006-06-22 04:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Oh, sweet irony!

I meant, of course, the TAPPED post found here. Sorry about that.

by Arkhangel 2006-06-22 04:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

I would love to see a link/pic to what you wear, Chris.  I am a guy who loves fashion, too.  Seems like a lot of true blue liberals dress very disheveled and crumpled up like Wellstone and Bernie Sanders.  Nothing more exciting than a suave ultra-left progressive, IMO.

I am ultra left, and I'd like to think suave, but maybe I am fooling myself.

by jgarcia 2006-06-22 05:17PM | 0 recs
Overworked?

I commented on the open thread from 6/14 about my impression that Chris seems to be overdoing it a bit.  Of course, that comment came on 6/16 so probably only Winston and three other people saw it.  

So let me try again.  I've noticed a lot more angst about the MyDD readership and the way we respond (or not) and what we do coming from Chris.  I suspect that part of the problem is that the netroots community probably hasn't changed that much in the last year (or so?) but that Chris has, because he knows more movers, is interviewed as a lefty blogger, etc.  I suspect that some of his frustration may be because the amorphous MyDD community et al moves like molasses.... (Of course, this whole sense of frustration could be due to other things--like Chris' real life...)

Regardless, another indication of the fatigue is above:  I'm actually a little tired of meta-talk about the progressive netroots right now.  The statements and somewhat uneven demeanor remind me of some burned out social workers I've met.

Scott and Jerome have moved to other things.  Matt and Jonathan have come in, but you need more front pagers.  I think two more.  Maybe at the outset MyDD was fine with three leads, but you all are more busy with other things now, largely from your efforts here I'd guess.  Two more front pagers would allow everyone a little more slack, some more time to focus on tight articles, and less pressure to produce multiple articles in a day.  Heck, there might not even be a need for Chris to apologize for taking 24 hours to move.

I don't have a strong opinion on who to recommend, but I'll throw out Annatopia and Paul Rosenberg.  IMO, the best thing would be to try to find someone who fits that netroots profile you published:  over 40, educated, etc.  Or try guest front pagers for a month at a time.

Meanwhile, keep up the good work.  This and Michigan Liberal are the only political blogs I ever read (probably why I don't get the deal about the Liberal Blog Advertizing Network).  I read MyDD because I like it best, when it is at it's best, which is usually.

by The lurking ecologist 2006-06-22 05:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Overworked?

I second your comments.  I have noticed fatigue/frustration at all the big sites.  DKos and MyDD included.  Both Kos and Chris seem waaaay out of whack/stressed out.

When Christy and Jane are away from FDL they arrange for others to post and keep the site going.  I think you can safely do that, Chris.  It would be better to do that now than when the campaign season is really heating up.  We need you fresh when the mess really starts hitting the fan.

If you don't want to add front pagers, you could just pull more posts from the reader diaries.

Chris, I'm sorry if this sounded condescending.  I don't mean it that way.

by The Southern Dem 2006-06-23 03:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread
"Those who speak, don't know; and those who know, don't speak."

Reality.
by Michael Bersin 2006-06-22 06:16PM | 0 recs
Only comment for the night

Feingold's interview in GQ was great.

by PsiFighter37 2006-06-22 06:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

Enjoy being "only" 32.  It goes quickly.

On the Schaller-Saunders debate, I'm with Schaller.  I think progressives are starting to go in circles with this.  Philosophically, the guys who wanted to target only swing districts or swing states had it right.  You go after the low hanging fruit first.  A state that Kerry missed by 2% is more likely to go into the column of whoever is the nominee in 2008 than one that he missed by 20%.  A state that he carried by 2% needs more attention than one that he missed by 20%.  Same on the distict level.  This shouldn't even be controversial.  You put minimal funding -just enough to get a name on the ballot and someplace for partisans to get together- in the third of the country that most strongly supports the other party.  You put somewhat more funding in the top third that most strongly supports you, and work really hard in the remaining third.

The reason the swing state strategy was needed was that Democratic consultants took this much too far.  They concentrated their efforts in just enough states to get 270 electoral votes, or just enough districts to get to 220 congressmen.  This is stupid.  You just can't do this because electorates will slip through the cracks, winnable races will be lost due to dumb luck.  But the principle is right, they just needed to spread the resources more and target about sixty more electoral votes and thirty more disticts than they did.  Likewise, to win back the Senate, the Democrats really need nine Republican seats that might flip, since not all will and the the gaining party always loses one or two of their own.

I guess what I really favor is a 37 state strategy, not a fifty state strategy.  But Dean is trying to build up state parties, and even in deep red states that will help since there are usually pale pockets there that can elect a Democratic congressman.

by Michels 2006-06-22 07:06PM | 0 recs
One of my favorite speeches from the show

because, as anybody who's managed any kind of project knows, that's exactly what you must have in order to succeed.

by boadicea 2006-06-22 07:19PM | 0 recs
Amen

First here to tar, and feather Karl Rove will win a prize!

by turnerBroadcaste 2006-06-22 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

We are all in this new movement together folks. I may be only 32, but I waited my whole life for a real progressive movement to come along in this country. Now we have it, and we are making some real waves. We will win and lose together. I have your backs because you have mine, and because I've seen energy in the netroots that I know will lead to the changes in America we all desire. We can do this. We just have to stay together.

Netroots, man. Tuesday is the big vote. I've been calling the "Undecided" Senators and "No Information" Senators all day. The "No Information" Senators obviously need more callers. I read the message below from Savetheinternet.com and for Democratic Senators add that the netroots are the key to Democratic wins in '06 and '08. Bayh and Cantwell joined the pro-Net Neutrality side today.

The Undecided and No Information Senators

"Network Neutrality is the First Amendment of the Internet. Congress must protect this set of principles, which keeps the Internet free and open to all. Sens. Olympia Snowe and Byron Dorgan have introduced a bipartisan bill (S. 2917), which protects Internet freedom. Please support their efforts for meaningful, enforceable Network Neutrality protections."

by nonwhiteperson 2006-06-22 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

Senator Saxby Chambliss may have been moved to take a position.

Can someone decrypt the senatorese here? This is an email I got from him today.

-- Begin Senator --

hank you for contacting me regarding network neutrality.  I appreciate hearing from you.
    The Internet is a vital communications tool for millions of Americans.  The speed and ease at which information can be retrieved over the Internet is unparalleled.  The applications and devices that can be used on the Internet enable families and friends to stay connected, businesses to accomplish their goals, and students to research topics about which they might
otherwise not have had access.      
      Net neutrality, or the concept of allowing Internet service providers to block or discriminate against certain content on high-speed networks, is a serious issue facing consumers and businesses.  The core disagreement is the fundamental question of whether the phone and cable companies that control the nation's broadband infrastructure will be able to charge for faster access to some online content and services.
      Currently, two bills on this issue, H.R. 5252, the "Communications Opportunity, Promotion, and Enhancement
(COPE) Act, and S. 2917, the "Internet Freedom Preservation Act," are pending before the Senate.  H.R. 5252 requires competition neutrality among all providers in an area, and S.
2917 requires that each broadband service provider shall enable any content, application, or service made available via the Internet to be provided on a basis that is reasonable and nondiscriminatory.  Both bills have been referred to the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation.  

     As this debate goes forward, and the Senate begins to consider the aforementioned legislation, you can rest assured that I will work with my colleagues to ensure fair market competition and the protection of consumers.  

-- End Senator --

If as Sen. Saxby Chambliss states, he is for protecting free market - and for opposing taxation without representation - he will be opposed to Telcos being able to charge for network routes that they will not be able to document for the end user. Its no different than saying we will not get a tax on the east india tea we would buy, just because it goes through one company or another. However, I can't fully decrypt his position because the corporate-lobbyist controlled opposition has tried to couch their assault on the network as a move against regulation. Good heavens. The net neutrality movement itself is a move +against+ putting a law in place that was only designed to help the telco charge a kind of internet tax to begin with !!

If Sen. Chambliss sticks to his conservative roots, I think this may move him to a first-amendment and constitutional defender column.

by turnerBroadcaste 2006-06-23 05:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

I agree with Chris regarding the Schaller/Saunders debate.  The "Southern strategy" simply is not a viable way to retake either house of Congress presently, but it is important to build up the Democratic Party in Southern states so that in the future we can be more competitive in that region.

I think one of the things we in the netroots need to do is to emphasize that the 50-state strategy is a plan for the future of the Democratic Party, not designed to win us the 2006 elections in deep red areas of the country. Building the party organization helps us field quality candidates in the future and helps us organize for a time when we can be more competitive in areas we cannot win today. It also helps us to define the Democratic Party by local candidates rather than by the natioanl smear image the Republicans try to put on us.

After election day, I am betting the Republicans, and possibly the pundits, will lash out at Dean for the "failure" of the 50-state strategy, pointing out that we won few districts that received 50-state strategy resources.  If we start defining the strategy as one for the future, rather than the present, we can head off the inevitable GOP narrative after election day.

by bogun 2006-06-22 09:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

The Southern stratagy should be educating the south not dragging our politics back to the 1800's so as to appeal to the culture of treason that the south reveres.

When all of the bigot Bedford Forrest schools/institutions are renamed for Sherman, those named for that scum Lee are renamed for Grant and all of the institutions statues etc named for that traitor jeff davis are renamed for Lincoln then there will be some hope for them.

This should be the southern strategy that is part of the 50 state strategy.

But until the south renounces their history of treason, bigotry and genocide there is little hope to find intelligent life south of the mason dixon line.

by Rational 2006-06-22 10:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

The South is not as misguided as you portray.  Hence why having a presence there is so important.

by illinois062006 2006-06-22 10:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

I'll go one step further than this: with climate change roiling the united states, the south will take over the country. Right now, the sun belt states have added bigtime electoral votes. Florida is a good example of that.  

If you don't win the south, you don't win. Period.

by turnerBroadcaste 2006-06-23 05:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

Wow...you sound like you have a lot of hate in your heart.  You actually sound just like every bigot I've ever met. Down South we call people like you hypocrites.

You've insulted everyone from the South, not just the racists and Republicans.  Thaaaat should motivate those of us working our asses off for Democratic victories in southern states.  

by The Southern Dem 2006-06-23 03:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

I'm 62, and I've been waiting all MY life for a progressive movement.

I thought I had found it, but I'm very disappointed in the way the liberal blogosphere has handled Jerome Armstrong's problems with the SEC.

I have no idea whether Jerome did anything wrong or not, but the assumption I've seen from the major bloggers that no one can question a progressive sounds suspiciously like right wingers who say no one can question a right winger.  I'm sorely disappointed.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

by Caro 2006-06-23 11:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

Gee isn't that the south's position?
the treason of the 1860's was be like us or we will quit.
These days its nominate a mush mouth good ole boy who bows in reverence to the monuments of treason we revere, honors the symbols of bigotry under which we murdered people, believes in cultism like we do and believes ignorance is superior to "book" learning or we won't even consider them.

As some one mentioned plenty of people in the sane parts of the country supported Southern candinates but when someone from the Northeast is nominated the south recoils in horror.

Be real.
In a period of peak oil the south promotes Nascar.
The south maintains they alone know what true american values are obviously speaking from thier history of treason.
The south spoke of honor as they name public institutions after the founder of the KKK and kept reelecting Strom thurmond the only man who has admitted to raping a prisoner on their way to jail.
The south wants people to stand on their own two feet even as it slobbers in the trough of federal money for boondoggles, scams and outright fraudelent behavior. It is not by accident that the largest bankruptcies in the courts came from business's founded in the ole dependancy and led by southern "gentlemen" Enron, WorldCom and others.
The south wants to "shrink" the big ole nasty federal government when it consistently is supported by the tax dollars drained from the North East.

I am not saying to write off the south but rather work on educating it so it to can leave the 3rd world and join the civiled states of the Union and the world.

by Rational 2006-06-23 05:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Thursday Evening Thread

Chris - I love the quote from West Wing.  Agree 100%

by John Mills 2006-06-23 06:39PM | 0 recs

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