Well, I'll be the first one to make a motion that we be on guard. If the Dems take the House and/or Senate and in ANY way waffle and water down these bills, we be just as hard as them as we were on people during the Scalito, Torture, Bolton, Net Neutrality, etc. debates. Let's be ready to make sure that the Democratic Party STAYS democratic.

the problem is that the GOP is going to slam us for being corrupt anyway, there are going to be a flurry of ads in 08 calling every dem candidate a crook and people are gonna go "ya know what, i think so too"

This one move is too complicated for the average voter, and they CERTAINLY won't think 'oh, now after hundreds of years, we now have clean politicians'

no one is going to buy that, except us

so i say take the money, crush the republicans for good, THEN wean off the money...we may not be able to, but its a lot better than not taking the money, losing elections over it, and still being called corrupt

This is just another sign that no matter which side wins, K Street will still call the shots. They don't spend money unless they know what they'll get in return.

Reforming the Democratic Party into one that is of, by, and for the people is a movement still in its infancy.

It's up to us to highlight inappropraite closeness to lobbyists.  Lobbying is what it is, and until the Supreme Court overturns the precedent that a separate legal entity like a corporation or LLC can 'speak', those entities will have a right to lobby.

What we need to do is focus the light of information and discovery on those contacts.  Politicans, especially those on our side of the aisle, need to understand that tit for tat will not be tolorated or hidden.

This isn't surprising, and speaks to the next phase of the netroots-powered transformation of politics and the Democratic party.  The netroots will only grow in power and influence over time and we will have to continue developing systems and strategies to exercise that power and influence, and to continue the transformation of our party.  I welcome that opportunity.  It will not be a repeat of the Clinton years in that regard.

We need to counterbalance the influence of K Street money...and I think we will.  If DC Dems are so far gone that they won't respond, then we squeeze them with everything we have.  And, over time, our pincers will become more powerful, and also more precise.  And we need to start the new phase of this "democracy training program" on the first day our party regains some real power.  

We can raise funds, we can influence MSM coverage, and we can generate our own media...and there are lots of us, and our members and capabilities will only grow over time.  Candidates that realize this will have us watching their back, singing their praises and funding their campaigns.  Those that don't will retire, black & blue, calling the netroots a bunch of crazies (here's hoping Lieberman is among the first to walk that road).  The change will happen over time, but there do seem to be signs that it's accelerating.

It may be true that if we don't learn the lessons of the past we're doomed to repeat it.  But I think there's also a risk of being too bound by the pain and failures of the past and becoming blind to new opportunities as they emerge in the present and can unfold into the future.  In that regard we need to strike the right balance, both individually and as a networked "movement."  And we need to find and support candidates who can do likewise, and democratically but forcefully remove those who aren't ready to make the change from the ugly and corrupt cycles that have devolved to a point where they may be destroying the Republican party before our eyes.  

Today's GOP may be experiencing a painful death caused by prolonged and toxic levels of cognitive dissonance.  If that's the case, its death will provide rich fertilizer for the growth of truly progressive politics and policies fueled by the expanding power of the netroots and based on REAL and fundamental human values.  

WE all know they're going to take it so why even bother discussing it anymore?

If they turned down the money, it just would have gone to the GOP anyway.

Even actual good democrats with real consciences know, "If I turn this money down, someone less scrupulous will take it"

It's a prisoner's dilemma essentially.  The bad-faith actors force the good faith actors to make less desireable moves.

It really will require legislation to end this kind of thing.  

"If they turned down the money, it just would have gone to the GOP anyway."

You could just as well say, "If Democrats had turned bown the bribes, Republicans would have gotten them."

Well, Republicans are already bought. So why would K Street want to pay even more for services already being rendered??

And then turn around and deliberately screw them on all their line-items.

My money says they will totally miss the point and donate even more money in 2008.

Remember, people give money to a brand, and idealization of what they think is so great about themselves.

In K Street's instance buying and selling power is the brand.  They won't even comprehend what happened if we steal their money and take it all to Atlantic City and burn it playing blackjack and poker.

if democrats jump in bed with the lobbiest than i can garentee you i will do everything i can to get them out of power.everything.sincerly james harris.

Running back to suck on the lobby money teat is the worst idea I can think of.  We fall for their last-second attempt to co-opt a genuine movement for change?  This is what Dean's 50 state strategy comes down to?  Lobbyists buying into our souls?

Rationalizing why it's OK for us to take bribes when it has been clearly established that lobby money is dirty money and makes pols do dirty things?  Make no mistake, they are bribes; loans with infinite interest that will have to be paid into over and over with cozy contracts, diverted funding, you name it.  

K street sees it's opportunity to sleaze its way into the winners, and do it with a minimum of fuss.  They already bought the DLC, now they want the rest of the Party.

Pelosi pulls in more cash than anyone for the party coffers, and she has the tenacity of belief to be an effective firewall.  Contributors have her ear sometimes, and her vote when she already agrees beforehand, but not her soul.  They don't pull her strings because she doesn't have any.  Does the same apply for every senator and representative, and the staffers they rely on?

We need to stay off this slippery slope.

Well, maybe Pelosi has some strings...

I sure wish I could pull on one and get her moving sometimes.