Wesley Clark On Bush, Katrina, and Leadership

Posted today at TPMCafe:

Again, just this past week, there was at least 36 hours notice that a major hurricane was going to hit the Gulf Coast, including likely a devastating blow to New Orleans, which certainly came to pass. The President continued with his regular schedule on Monday and Tuesday in California, Arizona, and Texas to hold some staged Medicare events and enjoy more vacation time, while finally returning to the White House yesterday. The joint task force including National Guard set up by the Pentagon failed to be on the scene in New Orleans in a timely manner to stop the looting and assist in the evacuation. Where is the leadership?

Then just this morning, the President claimed that no one could have anticipated the levee breaches we've seen in New Orleans after Katrina hit. That's not leadership, that's an excuse. In fact, people have predicted this kind of disaster for many years, including President Bush's own FEMA in 2001, when they ranked hurricane flood damage to New Orleans among the three likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing America. Instead, funding was significantly cut back, leaving key engineering projects on hold. Instead, this Administration focused on the war in Iraq, tax cuts, and private sector economic growth without asking the American people to make needed sacrifices for the good of the country. Again I ask you, where is the leadership?

Now more than ever before, it's clear that Bush is failing the nation. Anyone who dares to point this out is (what else?) accused of 'politicizing' the issue for partisan gain. However, I can honestly say that I don't know anyone who wouldn't rather see the President actually get in the game and lead right now. People are dying. I'd much rather be proven wrong about Bush right now than be proven right at the cost of hundreds of more lives.

The Liberal Blogs for Hurricane Relief effort is starting off well, with $35,630.20 $53,548.70 (as of 5:38PM) already raised for the American Red Cross. If you can spare anything, please click here to donate.

Tags: Democrats (all tags)

Comments

38 Comments

What follows from Clark's comments?
Simple:

There is an utter vaccuum of leadership in our nation's capital. And that WILL NOT CHANGE.

The ONLY hope we have is if leadership arises elsewhere.

We need leaders to arise from other dimensions.

We need Democrats to start screaming for action to be taken now.

Or we need citizens to find a leader and change things some other way.

We need state and local level elected officials to  just start ignoring DC and finding solutions.

We need people--Clark?--to coalesce public opinion to bring it to bear on DC.

New Orleans PROVES that DC has nothing to offer America. There's no one home there.

We need to find alternative leadership, baby.

That's a political act, but it has nothing to do with elections and partisan politics.

'06 is too late.

by Thresholder 2005-09-01 11:48AM | 0 recs
Re: What follows from Clark's comments?
What about you?
by AmericanWomanPatriot 2005-09-01 11:51AM | 0 recs
So what?
He used to be a Republican. He's not a REAL Democrat. He doesn't have any experience.

That's what I had to listen to day-in and day-out during the primaries last year from the Dean Nation. I don't understand the sudden Clark worship.
Now that the election is over I have to hear from these same people about what a brilliant man he is and how he's a great American, etc. No Fucking Shit!
I was practically labled a troll in the past for sticking up for him, now this? He's even BEATING Dean in a DailyKos fantasy poll.

by zt155 2005-09-01 12:08PM | 0 recs
Re: So what?
Who cares if he used to be a Republican? I'm more than willing to nominate a moderate Democrat as long as he isn't going to whore himself out to corporate donors like the DLC candidates are doing.
by material boy 2005-09-01 01:19PM | 0 recs
Re: So what?
So you don't allow for a change of opinion? I find your view more dangerous than their changed minds, because you act as if people are immutable. Once they are one thing- then they must always be that thing. If that were true, I could not look at clark, and decided that he's a guy I can trust based on your logic.
by bruh21 2005-09-01 02:26PM | 0 recs
Re: So what?
I think you need to reread his comment.
by kevin22262 2005-09-01 09:23PM | 0 recs
Re: So what?
"He used to be a Republican. He's not a REAL Democrat. He doesn't have any experience."

True, true, and true.

"I don't understand the sudden Clark worship."

It probably has something to do with him not currently seeking the party's presidential nomination.

"He's even BEATING Dean in a DailyKos fantasy poll."

So what else is new? Clark wins all the polls, which is a little suspicious, since he always languishes in the second tier for hours on end, then shoots up to first place in the span of about fifteen minutes.

by craverguy 2005-09-01 09:28PM | 0 recs
It's All Hillary's Words
Clark is merely the stalking horse for Hillary. This sort of comment is meaningless in so far as he currently has no modicum to affect Bush's trajectory. No Democrat does, in large measure, but certainly not Clark.

This is just to help drag out the story longer...that way if HRC, and Warner, and Feingold take trips to the "devastation" they won't be accused of "opportunism" but rather the need to help in "exceptional crisis" created by "a total lack of Presidential leadership."

Every liberal in this country knows that Bush likes to fiddle as Rome burns, we can only hope there won't need to be another, bigger disaster to convince the rest of the nation.

by risenmessiah 2005-09-01 01:39PM | 0 recs
Re: It's All Hillary's Words
That is a really stupid remark.  Wes Clark speaks for himself.  I haven't heard Hillary say anything "brave".  She hasn't criticized the war, the disaster relief, or anything.

Wes Clark has spoken up many times on the war, its failed strategy, and disaster that is the Bush administration.

by judy from nj 2005-09-01 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: It's All Hillary's Words
Wes Clark did not oppose the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The fact that he is making statements about the "failed strategy" proves my point. He supported the war, and the troop strength as proposed by the President in the 2004 primaries. I did not see Clark saying, the troop strength is too low to launch the invasion.

Criticizing Bush now is pointless for Clark. It's dog-piling a man with a broken leg. The only reason he's doing it is to trailblaze for Hillary in '08. All the hawks know and realize that by '08 the war will be too unpopular not to be critical. But since you can't un-vote for the resolution, they have to make up some ridiculous argument that they support the idea of going to war, but not in its execution.

Congress voted on all of the authorizations. Moreover, Congress has the power to suggest and vote on legislation NOT SUPPORTED BY THE PRESIDENT. There's no limit to how much legislation a member of Congress can propose to "support the troops". But Clark isn't in Congress so he has to make formal statements and speeches in order to keep his profile high enough for people to listen.

by risenmessiah 2005-09-01 03:47PM | 0 recs
Hill hasn't got the guts
You obviously know little to nothing about Democratic politics if you think Clark supported the Iraq war.  But I should have know you immediately from the RW talking point about a 'stalking horse".

Rove tried that in 2003.  Wasn't true then either.

by TxKat 2005-09-01 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: It's All Hillary's Words
2nd lie, Gen. Wesley Clark never supported the War nor did he support the resolution in its final form.

USA Today editorial from September 9, 2002, in which Clark wrote:
Despite all of the talk of "loose nukes," Saddam doesn't have any, or, apparently, the highly enriched uranium or plutonium to enable him to construct them.
Unless there is new evidence, we appear to have months, if not years, to work out this problem.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2002-09-09-oplede_x.htm

Or perhaps you are unfamiliar with Clark's September 26, 2002, testimony to the Armed Services Committee, in which he stated:
The resolution need not at this point authorize the use of force, but simply agree on the intent to authorize the use of force, if other measures fail...[emphasis added]

...in the near term, time is on our side , and we should endeavor to use the UN if at all possible. This may require a period of time for inspections or even the development of a more intrusive inspection program, if necessary backed by force.This is foremost an effort to gain world-wide legitimacy for US concerns and possible later action, but it may also impede Saddam's weapons programs and further constrain his freedom of action.
(See chapter that quotes Clark titled: The Post War Planning Failure) at the link here:
http://www.tacitus.org/user/Armando/diary/2

In his Op-Ed dated October 10, 2002, "Let's Wait to Attack." Clark states:
In the near term, time is on our side. Saddam has no nuclear weapons today, as far as we know, and probably won't gain them in the next few months. The U.S. has total military dominance of the region. Although Saddam has chemical and biological weapons, he has no long-range missiles with which to deliver them. Certainly, the clock is ticking, because Saddam may eventually acquire the nuclear weapons and delivery systems he seeks. Nonetheless, there is still time for dialogue before we act.
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/10/timep.iraq.viewpoints.tm/

And finally, Clark's statement to AP about the resolution on October 9, 2002 in an article titled:
Retired Gen. Clark supports Swett, raises concerns about Iraq policy :
http://premium1.fosters.com/2002/election%5F2002/oct/09/us%5F2cong%5F1009a.asp
Retired U.S. Army Gen. Wesley Clark said Wednesday he supports "A" congressional resolution that would give President Bush authority to use military force against Iraq, although he has reservations about the country's move toward war. Clark, who led the allied NATO forces in the Kosovo conflict, endorsed Democrat Katrina Swett in the 2nd District race.

He said if she were in Congress this week, he would advise her to vote for a resolution, but only after vigorous debate... The general said he had doubt Iraq posed a threat, and questioned whether it was immediate and said the debate about a response has been conducted backward.

Note that it is the Associated Press who claims Clark supports a resolution that would give Bush authority to use military force, whereas Clark's own words indicate he would only support "A" (key word!) resolution "after vigorous debate." Surely that can be interpreted to mean vigorous debate that would result in changes (otherwise, why debate?) --meaning he did not support the resolution "as was." Considering he had previously testified to the Armed Services Committee that the resolution need not authorize force, we can guess what he might have felt one of those changes should be.

by ZootSuitGringo 2005-09-01 07:01PM | 0 recs
He Didn't Have to Vote
You know, the more I try to clarify my comments the more the Clarkies try to sensationalize them. Look, I know the people who liked Clark thought that his "record of military service as a commanding general" would somehow ameliorate the idea that national security is a "Republican" issue. But we nominated a guy who had plenty of military service and the facts don't lie: equivocate about your position and George Washington or Eisenhower could have lost against the Bush machine.

Clark failed to ennumerate a solid anti-war position because he thought it was a liability throughout 2003 and 2004. He drank the Kool-Aid like Clinton, and Biden and the other Dem hawk yuppies. The links you provide qualify his support based on conditions, but that's not surprising.

The only reason that we're having this debate is that unlike Kucinich, Edwards, Kerry, Biden... Clark and Dean didn't have to vote on the resolution. Dean took a risk and sold a convincing anti-war stance. For all I know, he could have brought back the draft and I could be sitting in an armored vehicle rolling through Ramadi as we speak. But I still respected him for taking the anti-war position and making it clear that he wasn't going to roll over and play dead.

You can tell me 1,000 times that Clark did not support the war. But as a person who spent lots of time watching the campaign for President in '03 and '04 I did not see Clark refer to this stance very much and I certainly didn't see the florid oratory commensurate with being so anti-war.

Going after Bush now is a lost cause. Clark has to get his ass in gear and do something. He's had three years to find his vertebra and meaningfully oppose Bush's policy in some manner. That he hasn't tells you all he needs to know. These speeches are mere talking points and part of something bigger. Namely, the War Democrats that their ship is taking on water and that there are not enough lifeboats for all of them.

by risenmessiah 2005-09-01 07:32PM | 0 recs
Re: It's All Hillary's Words
Is this the throw anything at the wall, and see what sticks approach to characterization? The other day he was a Republican, and now he's stalking horse for HRC. Next he will be the tooth fairy from Mars- see if that one works.
by bruh21 2005-09-01 02:27PM | 0 recs
Re: It's All Hillary's Words
...coming from someone who uses all of Rush's words, I find this sadly ironic.
by Donna Z 2005-09-01 04:53PM | 0 recs
Forget the Dems
What we need here is Fidel Castro. Not a single life  was lost there when they got hit with Hurricane Ivan. Think about that - they evactuated 1.9 million people, about the population of the New Orleans metro area. These people here were not killed by Katrina, they were killed by capitalism, plain and simple.
by lynfidel 2005-09-01 02:02PM | 0 recs
Leadership is lifting people up!
The news now has reached the point of "no available adjectives."
How many ways can one say horrible?

I have never seen our country sink to the depth that it has reached. A war of aggression, turning its back on its own citizens, and stealing from us to line the pockets of the wealthy.

Someone at TPM said that Clark was wrong in thinking that we have no leadership, that indeed we are being lead it is just that it is in the wrong direction.

I disagree. Sure there are many, too many, who clammer to support a false, media-driven image of the fool in the White House. But that is not leadership. Leaders lead. They lead toward what is right and good. Leadership is lifting people up. Maybe we have been down so long it looks like up to America?

I hope not. Sending money is one thing that I've been able to do, but sending a leader to Washington will take all of us.  

by Donna Z 2005-09-01 05:04PM | 0 recs
Not an excuse, but worse
"... the President claimed that no one could have anticipated the levee breaches we've seen in New Orleans after Katrina hit. That's not leadership, that's an excuse."

No, its not leadership.  But its not an excuse either.  

It is a stupid, bald faced lie.  Bush treats us with so much contempt, that he won't even bother lie plausibly.  He won't make an effort to leave the citizenry their dignity when he rolls over them.  I look forward to the day enough of them figure this out.

by AlphaHydroxy 2005-09-01 05:17PM | 0 recs
Make CLINTON dictator for life!!
Fuck it.  Fuck democracy.

Losing democracy would be a cheap price to pay for having Bill Clinton run the nation until we clone him and properly educate his clone to take over as dictator for life.

I miss Bill, and I feel sorry for all the folks who are -- gasp! -- too young to have missed their chance to vote for Bill.

Fortunately, someone told Bush they bring in the Real President (tm).

by jcjcjc 2005-09-01 05:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Make CLINTON dictator for life!!
I don't miss Clinton one bit. I have enough problems without wondering why in the hell a Democrat is behind NAFTA, welfare repeal, expanding the death penalty, and slowly but surely killing-off the liberal wing of the party.
by craverguy 2005-09-01 05:56PM | 0 recs
PEace and prosperity
Say what you will about Bill, shit worked on his watch.
by jcjcjc 2005-09-01 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: PEace and prosperity
Except for all the liberal politicians that he and his DLC friends put out of business. They didn't work at all.

It's a sad state of affairs when Bob Kerrey can credibly criticize you from the left.

by craverguy 2005-09-01 06:33PM | 0 recs
Re: PEace and prosperity
I think the day is fast coming where All americans will be completely fed up with all this right and left horse-shit and simply vote their own interests for a change. No more lobbies. No more slick slogans. Just the United Internet of America.
by turnerbroadcasting 2005-09-01 07:01PM | 0 recs
Re: PEace and prosperity
I think you're pretty foolish if you think that the right has the people's interests in mind at all.
by craverguy 2005-09-01 07:07PM | 0 recs
The posters that want to criticize Wes Clark for
Speaking out should hang their heads in shame.

He was never a Republican, so that is the first lie! His actual voter registration records shows that he was an independent throughout his years of Army service. Note that party preference is "optional" on Arkansas' voter registration form, and 96% of all Arkansas voters express no party preference when registering.

In 1996, Arkansas (for the first time) allowed voters to voluntarily declare a 'party' affiliation. Clark was one of those who did not voluntarily register for either party, which means that his Independent status remained unchanged.

The General changed his voter registration to Democrat three years after retiring from the Army in 2000.  He changed his registration from Independent to Democrat.
There are those who might want the question to be; does voting for a Republican actually make one a Republican? The simple response is that Wes Clark voting for a Republican meant that Wes Clark was an Independent who voted for a Republican. The point of being an Independent is to vote for whomever you so choose as opposed to belonging to any particular party. But the other question could just as easily be; what makes one a Democrat? I contend that a Democrat is anyone who champions the principles, values and goals of the Democratic party. In looking back at Clark's public history, one can conclude that  General Wes Clark as consistently espoused the principles of the Democratic party as opposed to any other.

Therefore, NO; Wes Clark was never a Republican, nor did he ever belong to the Republican Party.
Sources:
http://www.dorislane.com/clark/voterreg-5-02-b.jpg
http://www.dorislane.com/clark/voterreg-5-02.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/article97.html
http://lapin.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/6/4/55753/84068
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/elections/2000/states/ar/
http://www.dailytargum.com/media/paper168/news/2003/10/13/Opinions/Color.Outside.The.Lines-526400.sh tml
http://www.thetennesseetribune.com/news/Article/Article.asp?NewsID=33701&sID=34

by ZootSuitGringo 2005-09-01 06:47PM | 0 recs
Re: The posters that want to criticize Wes Clark f
You have to check out this film - "No Man's Land"  about the serbian conflict. These two soldiers, one serb, one bosnian - get stuck in a crater with a fallen soldier stuck on a landmine with a spring loaded trigger.

So the Bosnian has to trust the ethnic-cleansing serb to help him defuse the bomb and make his way across no mans land. Or both blow up.

 

by turnerbroadcasting 2005-09-01 07:00PM | 0 recs
I don't care how he registered.
I don't care if he registered as a member of the Communist Party USA or the Natural Law Party. If someone votes for four Republicans in a row, raises money for the Arkansas GOP, and tests the waters to run for statewide office as a Republican, I'm going to call him a Republican.

I also don't give two shits what values Clark espouses. The values he voted for in 1968, 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, and 1988 were the values of greed, hatred, bigotry, and fear-mongering.

Actions speak louder than words.

by craverguy 2005-09-01 07:03PM | 0 recs
Re: We know you don't give a damn,
And that's ok, cause you are but just one person, and a small one at that. The measure of the person is not based on what you say it is, it's based on what he's accomplished in his life.  So, no matter what you say, your false words cannot take away from him what he has accomplished, most likely to your great distress!

Waiting for the General
By Elizabeth Drew
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16795
Clark displeased the defense secretary, Bill Cohen, and General Hugh Shelton, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, by arguing strenuously that--contrary to Clinton's decision-- the option of using ground troops in Kosovo should remain open. But the problem seems to have gone further back. Some top military leaders objected to the idea of the US military fighting a war for humanitarian reasons. Clark had also favored military action against the genocide in Rwanda.

http://www.crookedtimber.org/archives/001104.html
Clark was almost alone in pushing for a humanitarian intervention in Rwanda.

Pulitzer award winning Samantha Power for her book "A Problem from Hell" : America and the Age of Genocide
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060541644/qid=1114936910/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-769295 2-2877630?v=glance&s=books
endorsed Wes Clark http://www.kiddingonthesquare.com/2003/12/redeeming_wes...
The following excerpts from Power's book give the details. The narrative surrounding the quotes was written by another person commenting on the book. Note especially Power's last comment below on Clark's pariah status in Washington:

General Clark is one of the heroes of Samantha Power's book. She introduces him on the second page of her chapter on Rwanda and describes his distress on learning about the genocide there and not being able to contact anyone in the Pentagon who really knew anything about it[/b] and/or about the Hutu and Tutsi.

She writes, "He frantically telephoned around the Pentagon for insight into the ethnic dimension of events in Rwanda. Unfortunately, Rwanda had never been of more than marginal concern to Washington's most influential planners"(p. 330) .

He advocated multinational action of some kind to stop the genocide. "Lieutenant General Wesley Clark looked to the White House for leadership. 'The Pentagon is always going to be the last to want to intervene,' he says. 'It is up to the civilians to tell us they want to do something and we'll figure out how to do it.' But with no powerful personalities or high-ranking officials arguing forcefully for meaningful action, midlevel Pentagon officials held sway, vetoing or stalling on hesitant proposals put forward by midlevel State Department and NSC officials" (p. 373).

According to Power, General Clark was already passionate about humanitarian concerns, especially genocide, before his appointment as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO forces in Europe.

She details his efforts in behalf of the Dayton Peace Accords and his brilliant command of NATO forces in Kosovo. Her chapter on Kosovo ends, "The man who probably contributed more than any other individual to Milosvevic's battlefield defeat was General Wesley Clark. The NATO bombing campaign succeeded in removing brutal Serb police units from Kosovo, in ensuring the return on 1.3 million Kosovo Albanians, and in securing for Albanians the right of self-governance."

"Yet in Washington Clark was a pariah. In July 1999 he was curtly informed that he would be replaced as supreme allied commander for Europe. This forced his retirement and ended thirty-four years of distinguished service. Favoring humanitarian intervention had never been a great career move."
http://globetrotter.berkeley.edu/people2/Power/images/Problem.jpg

Samantha Power's comments on Wesley Clark at the December 17, 2003, press conference in Concord, New Hampshire after the General's testimony at the Hague .

"Good afternoon. It's a real honor for me to be here with General Clark, and with Edita Tahiri. My name is Samantha Power. I spent about seven years looking into American responses to genocide in the twentieth century, and discovered something that may not surprise you but that did surprise me, which was that until 1999 the United States had actually never intervened to prevent genocide in our nation's history. Successive American presidents had done an absolutely terrific job pledging never again, and remembering the holocaust, but ultimately when genocide confronted them, they weighed the costs and the benefits of intervention, and they decided that the risks of getting involved were actually far greater than the other non-costs from the standpoint of the American public, of staying uninvolved or being bystanders. That changed in the mid-1990s, and it changed in large measure because General Clark rose through the ranks of the American military.

 The mark of leadership is not to standup when everybody is standing, but rather to actually stand up when no one else is standing. And it was Pentagon reluctance to intervene in Rwanda, and in Bosnia, that actually made it much, much easier for political leaders to turn away. When the estimates started coming out of the Pentagon that were much more constructive, and proactive, and creative, one of the many deterrents to intervention melted away. And so I think, again, in discussing briefly the General's testimony, it's important to remember why he was able to testify at the Hague, and he testified because he decided to own something that was politically very, very unfashionable at the time."
http://www.kiddingonthesquare.com/2004/01/index.html

"There were a lot of Democrats who wouldn't accept Clark as a "true Democrat." One of the worst things you can do to a Democrat is to call him or her a Republican, and this is something that Clark's opponents (and their supporters) often did. I don't think there is anything Clark could have done to prove his Democratic credentials to the people who shouted "But he voted for Nixon and Reagan! He spoke at a Republican Party dinner!" Perhaps many of these people find it difficult to understand why a career military man would have voted for Presidents who were strong on national defense issues during the Cold War...nor did they want to accept that Clark also attended the Democratic Party's dinner a few weeks after the Republican's, campaigned for Dems in '02 Congressional races, and voted Dem since 1992. The above does not matter to them, and those facts were not really instrumental in convincing me that Clark was a "true Democrat." If there was one thing that convinced me that Clark was a champion of Democratic values, it was his vocal support for humanitarian intervention to stop genocide in Rwanda and the Balkans. The fact remains that several Democratic leaders - the current standard bearers of our party - shirked from their duty of defending human rights and honoring multilateral agreements because it was not politically popular at the time. Clark, on the other hand, advocated intervention to stop the genocide in Rwanda and the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. Well, those credentials are Democratic enough for me."
http://www.lindsayfincher.com/archives/2004_02.html

by ZootSuitGringo 2005-09-01 07:14PM | 0 recs
Re: We know you don't give a damn,
So he supported going into Kosovo and Rwanda. Good for him. So did Arlen Specter. Does he get to be an honorary Democrat, too?
by craverguy 2005-09-01 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: We know you don't give a damn,
No he didn't just support going into Rwanda and Kosovo, he advocated for it.  He was a leader then, and he is a leader still.

You can "think" that you can claim the liberal label because of who you voted for.  And if you want to attach party labels with such purity, I feel sorry for you, because it means that you are not the true liberal that might think you are.

"We live in a liberal democracy.  This country was founded on the principals of the Enlightenment. It was the idea that people could talk, reason, have dialogue, discuss the issues. It wasn't founded on the idea that someone would get stuck by a divine inspiration and know everything right from wrong. I mean, people who founded this country had religion, they had strong beliefs, but they believed in reason, in dialogue, in civil discourse. We can't lose that in this country. We've got to get it back."--Wes Clark
http://www.safesearching.com/billmaher/print/t_hbo_realtime_090503.htm

by ZootSuitGringo 2005-09-01 09:26PM | 0 recs
Re: We know you don't give a damn,
Come to think of it, Dick Armey lobbied pretty hard to go into Kosovo. Does Dick Armey get to be an Honorary Democrat, too?

Maybe I should compile a list of every Republican who supported the war in Kosovo, then make them all Honorary Democrats like Clark.

by craverguy 2005-09-02 12:15PM | 0 recs
People change
For example, Kos was a Republican for quite awhile!

Clark is a Democrat now.

by Geotpf 2005-09-02 10:23AM | 0 recs
What is wrong with you political people here?
Are you so into politics that you can't see the truth of the General's statements?

I'm a researcher in Atlanta. I am living in a nice neighborhood, I work hard. I have one little life
that I live.

And I posted six times, and two diary entries about how the levees are going to break, and that it would be the biggest thing to focus on.

The President is saying no-one knew? Well I agree with General Clark. Leaders know. I am just one small person but I lead my own small company, my family and in this case I think general Clark
is RIGHT. I could care less about 2008. There are people , no - AMERICANS dying in New Orleans. Fix the problem.

by turnerbroadcasting 2005-09-01 06:57PM | 0 recs
Re: What is wrong with you political people here?
That's cause we are dealing with people who have small minds.

Wes Clark has proven his worth so many times, it ain't even funny!

I'm with you.  Hearing the reports coming in from New Orleans make my heart ache and my eyes weld up in tears.  This is beyond pitiful because it illustrates our true failure as a nation to choose the right priorities, which is what you are talking about; people are the priority and how we deal with our citizens in time of hardship reveals who we really are.

by ZootSuitGringo 2005-09-01 07:05PM | 0 recs
Re: What is wrong with you political people here?
"Wes Clark has proven his worth so many times, it ain't even funny!"

How? By voting for Reagan or by raising money for the GOP?

by craverguy 2005-09-01 07:05PM | 0 recs
Re: What is wrong with you political people here?
No, by being a bigger person than you could ever imagine yourself to be.

John P. O'Neill's Wall of Heroes includes Wes Clark:
http://www.mindspace.org/liberation-news-service/heroes.html

Clark stance on PNAC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x30610

"Clark says after the 11 September 2001 attacks, many Bush administration officials seemed determined to move against Iraq, invoking the idea of state sponsorship of terrorism, "even though there was no evidence of Iraqi sponsorship of 9/11 whatsoever".

Ousting Saddam Hussein promised concrete, visible action, the general writes, dismissing it as a "Cold War approach".

Clark criticises the plan to attack the seven states, saying it targeted the wrong countries, ignored the "real sources of terrorists", and failed to achieve "the greater force of international law" that would bring wider global support.

He also condemns George Bush's notorious Axis of Evil speech made during his 2002 State of the Union address. "There were no obvious connections between Iraq, Iran, and North Korea," says Clark."

Found on Independent Media TV: http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=2654...

This is taken form a long thoughtful review of Clark's book "Winning Modern Wars". The review is on a Pro Clark Web site, but he reason they are Pro Clark includes his position vis a vis PNAC:

"Clark describes the decision by the Executive branch to escalate the war and concludes:

"And so, barely six months into the war on terror, the direction seemed set. The United States would strike, using its military superiority; it would enlarge the problem, using the strikes on 9/11 to address the larger Middle East concerns; it would attempt to make the strongest case possible in favor of its course, regardless of the nuances of the intelligence; and it would dissipate the huge outpouring of goodwill and sympathy it had received in September 2001 by going it largely alone, without support of a formal alliance or full support from the United Nations...."

"Clark spends time to detail some of the inside apparatus of policy making - taking the time to explain the importance of the quadrennial National Security Strategy of 2002 - before getting to his main thrust. Because Iraq was not organically connected to the terrorist attacks of 9/11 - the mission had to be sold as being a short strike to overthrow an imminent threat. This precluded an honest assessment of the costs and benefits of overthrowing Saddam, and therefore, when the invasion ended, and the occupation began - everyone was underprepared, including those who had backed the war policy. In order to convince the American people this was another "in and out" along the lines of Grenada, Panama, Haiti and the first Gulf War - the preparations for the occupation had to be minimal - lest they betray foreknowledge of the real cost. It smacks of Hitler failing to order winter uniforms for Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of the USSR.

In tomorrow's entry will be on the remainder of Clark's argument, where Clark turns the corner - from accusing Bush of following long standing misguided dream by the far right wing in the form of the Project For A New American Century, and hence producing a failed policy, and an occupation which everyone denied until we were engaged in it - to a larger problem of America as an Empire."

Unfortunately I got that from an archive site and can't find part two of the review. Here is the link:
http://www.draftclark.com/archives/004406.shtml

Some more stuff, this from May 15th 2003 newpaper coverage of a talk by journalist Richard Dreyfuss:

"The image of the United States has changed in the eyes of the world," Dreyfuss said. "We are no longer viewed as the beacon of democracy, but as the bully on the playground that picked on the weakest kid to beat up in order to intimidate others.

Dreyfuss is an award-winning independent journalist whose cover article in the April issue of American Prospect magazine, "Quicksand: Iraq is Just the Beginning," was the title for the forum. His articles on national and foreign affairs appear routinely in The Nation, Rolling Stone, Mother Jones and other publications...

In his American Prospect article, Dreyfuss wrote: "Six years ago, in its founding statement of principles, PNAC called for a radical change in U.S. foreign and defense policy, with a beefed-up military budget and a more muscular stance abroad, challenging hostile regimes and assuming `American global leadership.'" It was signed by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney's chief of staff I. Lewis Libby and Gov. Jeb Bush, the president's brother, among others. "The PNAC statement foreshadowed the outline of the president's 2002 national security strategy," he wrote.

The invasion of Iraq, as a component of this strategy, was not supported by many in the U.S. military, including Gen. Zinni and Gen. Wesley Clark, former head of the Allied Command, Dreyfuss noted, and top levels of the CIA, who knew there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq nor government ties to al Qaeda. terrorists."

The Link: http://www.fcnp.com/310/story4.htm

Finally I think parts of this article from a right wing Anti-Clark persspective was cited above in the thread somewhere, but here are some very relevent quotes from an article trying to make Clark out as a crack pot for EXPOSING the extent of PNAC influence. This from October 2, 2003:

"Candidate Derides Committee That Crafted Cold War Victory"

General Wesley Clark, the late entry into the race for the Democratic nomination for president, is making what critics called a "bizarre," "crackpot" attack on a small Washington policy organization and on a citizens group that helped America win the Cold War...

... Relatively few American voters have even heard of the Project for a New American Century or remember the Committee on the Present Danger, so the flap is unlikely to sway many votes immediately. But if the interview contributes to a sense of General Clark as something of a loose cannon, that might have an effect on voters seeking a steady leader to guide the nation in the war against terrorism...

...A director of the Project for a New American Century, Randy Scheunemann, called General Clark's comments "bizarre."...

... "This is a guy who could barely win a war in Kosovo," Mr. Scheunemann said. "Now Wesley Clark is running for president by running against a think tank?"

Here's that link: http://daily.nysun.com/Repository/getFiles.asp?Style=Ol...

Oh by the way, here is a link to a great buzzflash interview with the co-author of "Hunting the President", Gene Lyons where he outlines the attack campaign the Republicans will use against Clark, among other things. This from October 22, 2003:

BUZZFLASH: You're probably one of the most well-informed journalists on how attack politics play themselves out with a culpable media, based on your extensive research and writing on the Clintons. How do you think the right wing is going to go after Clark? What can he expect? What advice would you give Clark and the people who are working for him?

LYONS: Well, the outlines of it are already evident. They're saying he's too tightly wrapped, which is kind of akin to what they tried to do with John McCain. They're saying he's a zealot and tends to become unhinged. They're suggesting he's crazed with ambition.

I wrote in a column a couple of weeks ago that one of their lines of attack would be to portray him as sort of General Jack D. Ripper, who was the megalomaniacal general in Dr. Strangelove who was so concerned with his precious bodily fluids. And that's what I think they will try to do. They might go all the way to the edge of suggesting some kind of mental illness. I don't think he's very vulnerable to that sort of smear."
That link: http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/10/int03221.html

Shall I repeat the right wing smear against Clark for trying to expose PNAC? Yes, I think so: "General Wesley Clark, the late entry into the race for the Democratic nomination for president, is making what critics called a "bizarre," "crackpot" attack on a small Washington policy organization and on a citizens group that helped America win the Cold War."

by ZootSuitGringo 2005-09-01 07:29PM | 0 recs
Re: What is wrong with you political people here?
Didn't about 1/4 of registered Democrats for Reagan? Should they be barred for running for public office as Democrats because of their votes and political views two decades later? People change.
by material boy 2005-09-01 07:31PM | 0 recs
LOL
Turner,

There is a difference between saying something, and doing something. Clark's not wrong, but who is his audience? The wingnuts who knew and wanted this to be a possibility, the liberals who were afraid of this, or the people caught in the middle of a tragedy?

Bush's abject, total, and unbelievable lack of leadership on this is so obvious that even the most mentally challenged among don't need to be alerted by Wesley Clark.

This is such a colossal blunder it speaks for itself. Which is why Clark is wasting his time with an annoucement like this...he's got to focus on what we can do to help limit the devastation not just to those directly affected but to the nation at large.

by risenmessiah 2005-09-01 07:42PM | 0 recs

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