by Chris Bowers, Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 08:31:41 AM EDT
Update: Cardinal Ratzinger of Germany, who turned 78 on Saturday, has been elected the new Pope. He has takent he name Benedict the XVI (that is going to take some getting used to), and seems generally to be considered a conservative.
"Ratzinger served John Paul II since 1981 as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. In that position, he has disciplined church dissidents and upheld church policy against attempts by liberals for reforms. He turned 78 on Saturday."Darthvader (or Dick Cheney if you prefer) was just elected pope. Being brought up Catholic, I feel well within my rights to say screw the new pope and screw the Catholic church for electing this guy. It will be a good long time, if ever, that I go to a Catholic mass again.
I feel like I did in the 2000 GOP Nomination process. Intellectually, you tried to convince yourself one of the many that were originally in the field had to be able to beat Doofus. Emotionally, you damn well knew those dingbats would pick Doofus just because he was the worst possible choice available to them.
Bet Bill Mahar and Jon Stewart are happy. Their life just keeps getting easier every day.
He seems to be an uninspiring choice for pope. I was hoping for the Nigerian or a Latin American.
As a deist, I have to remain pretty neutral about the Papacy. However, the guy does impact a lot of lives, even those of non-Catholics. I have to express some disappointment, right along with you.
The priest at the church I attended was a lesbian. This was about a decade and a half ago.
Really, any church that traces it's roots to being formed because some guy couldn't get a divorce is not going to be very conservative.
I actually like Episcopal worship better. I used to attend an Episcopal Church. My experience is that they take it more seriously, and more importantly they can sing. Theologically, I am probably more sympathetic to Anglican theology than Catholic. (Bring back the altar rail - and put a woman behind it!) However, I would probably miss the diverse, disfunctional family that is the Catholic Church.
I think he will be a man to draw up the drawbridge and and shoot it out at the modern world from the castle keep.
Look for church conservatives in the U.S. and around the world to be even more in ascendance than ever.
Catholic Democrats who are pro-choice should expect to be denied communion.
That'd be like saying we have a chance of getting Dennis Kucinich elected because only have the country voted for the Conservative.
I'm glad I left 2 years ago.
Nobody should be surprised. Ratzinger's been running the place since JP II's health went downhill.
As my husband & I like to say, he must have known some really good card tricks.
But I wouldn't criticize a man of John Paul's stature for following his faith - it was that same faith that led him to such laudable actions as forgiving his would-be assassin; condemning capital punishment; and speaking out against Communist repression and the invasion of Iraq. It is surely a religious leader's prerogative and duty to follow his faith as he understands it.
It is a great pity, though, that any beliefs - religious or secular - would stand in the way of lessening the scope of suffering from a catastrophe like AIDS.
Ratzinger is defined as a strong defender of John Paul's conservative movements. Yes, he was Hitler Youth but that may or may not mean anything. What does mean something is his role as defender of the faith...
"He's been head of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (formerly the Inquisition) for more than 20 years and he has been described as being even more zealous in the defense of orthodoxy than the pope himself."
Ummm... the Inquisition? A German, ex-Hitler Youth, Head of the Inquisition? Too bad this isn't American politics. We could have field day with that.
He is 78 so he won't be Pope long but don't expect any liberal changes from this guy.
Further of the 115 Cardinals that selected the new Pope, 113 of them were appointed by John Paul. Not all are as conservative as John Paul or as Ratzinger appears to be but don't expect some wave of liberalism to wash over these guys without intervening events.
Given that thought... it would be fantastic if Benedict XVI excommunicated the vast majority of American Catholics that want Female Priests, married Priests, think gay union is ok, and think contreception should be approved as well as abortion. Lets hope this guy goes senile and tries to be "the enforcer." It could be just the cataclsymic event necessary to bring the church back into the modern era.
I think that the choice of the name Benedict signals a certain amount of concern with matters of war and peace in this modern world. Had he been obsessed with archconservative doctrinal orthodoxy, he might have chosen the name Pius.
But strangely enough... "Benedictus" is seen as a moderately progressive pope name...
On the other hand, his profile is so conservative that expectations on his possible moderation will be so low that he can only surprise us
I suppose the analogy would be like if Bush died/resigned/was Raptured, and Dick Cheney took over for the rest of the term. Since he's the evil crank who's being doing all the behind-the-scenes heavy lifting for his more-charismatic front man, the policy and practices wouldn't change much. But with the curtain of charisma pulled back, all we'd see for a few years would be the bitter old wizard pulling the levers. Hopefully that can result in the pendulum swinging back the next time to choose (although it's hard for that to happen when it's not the 1 billion Catholics who make the choice, only the self-perpetuating college of cardinals).
43% of the catholics of the world live
in Latin America. Europe is in the interim
band.
The appointment speaks well of the modern catholic
church. Religious conservatism is a simple
practice. The papacy recently stated, in fact,
that homosexuality is part of a 'culture of evil'.
Who do you think actually helped author
that. Ratzinger has been working with JP2 for
quite some time now, so we won't see anything
different than what we already have.
After all, the Germans opposed the war in
Iraq. Didn't they?
For my money, I'd care less about how they
deal with homosexuality and other non-issues
like abortion and get on with the real
issues like cloning.
Fundamentalism is a way of escaping the world,
hiding from its realities. These are eternal
realities facing the church. A younger voice
is welcome, and the church seems to be
in good hands.
but geez, could the vatican have been
more obvious in that europe vs.
latin america thing?
Hail Europa. Not sieg heil.. hail!
>:)
Maybe its time for the American Catholic Church to do what Henry VIII did in the 16th century and say fuck you to the Vatican. Or maybe its time for American Catholic to walk away,
However, as a wife of a lapsed Catholic, I have noticed that to be a Catholic is almost like being a Jew, its a culture not just a religion. Once born a Catholic always a Catholic--it is in the blood. You can't say that about Protestants.
Change can come one way or another. You just have to walk away. If you can.
Ratzinger, as chief of the Holy Inquisition (no kidding) for 24 years, was one of the leaders encouraging bishops to publicly refuse communion to John Kerry. That's way out of bounds so far as U.S. law goes; the Conclave has declared the RC church is more like a 527 than a true charity.
I suppose the centrality of anti-choice reproductive policy and the prefunctory nature of opposition to unjust war is official now. Some lives are more culture of life than others. There's no more hiding behind an ailing pope over this scandal.
Ratzinger was a disappointing choice because he not only believes that abortion and gay relationships are a sin, but that those who disagree with church teachings on those matters are sinful.
To think is a sin.
Not only is the gay Catholic boy a sinner, so is the mother who has realized her son was "different" since he was a toddler, but still loves him and respects him and hopes he finds a good partner in life. I'm sympathetic to both the boy and the mother. I'm a double-sinner.
Condoms prevent AIDS and abortion. I'll go directly to hell with that idea.
If a woman were to learn that her current pregnancy could kill her, leaving her family without a wife or mother, she would be sinful not only to have an abortion, but even to consider an abortion.
Catholicism is all about family. And no one in that family, or in that community, would consider such a woman to be sinful.
Things such as this are so obvious to so many good Catholics that Rome is distant. We are not afraid to disagree. We vote for whomever would best serve our communities, not for who would best serve our religion. We are generally not evangelicals and we are taught not to judge others.
Ratzinger has argued for excommunication of progressive Catholics, but Catholics have rejected that idea. Christ's embrace of Mary Magdelene teaches us that such exclusion would be sinful.
sorry my man, but it looks like you need to find a different church. putting your red herring logical fallacies aside (you blatantly mischaracterized the holy father's doctrinal positions[thinking is a sin? laughfest!], whether through intellectual dishonesty or an inability to understand complex arguments), you disagree with fundamental church teachings at the root of our faith. life, according to our church, is sacred and must be protected at all costs, including the weak, the infirmed, and even the lives of the guilty, as well as the unborn. to believe otherwise would be to distrust our omnipotent and omniscient heavenly father, who is the author of life.
if you can't handle basic principles of the christian church, might i suggest creating your own church, joining a unitarian church, or abandoning faith altogether?
I will add however, that your tone was rude and I doubt you're actually Catholic. No Catholic would ever use "the christian church" interchangably with "the Catholic church."
i chose the term "christian church" because the catholic church is the universal christian church. you certainly need to create your own religion or leave the church. orthodox theology is too difficult and upsetting for you.
If he recognizes the global trade regime as being a religion all its own -- a cult of corporate greed and avarice -- he can't be all bad.
Since just about every cardinal was picked by JP2, there just isn't that much diversity among the cardinals, though. You can be sure that even Ratzinger, probably the most hard-line of the whole bunch, is still going to be anti-war and opposed to the excesses of global capitalism -- and even if a good man like Maradiaga was our pope today, you'd still hear a litany of "no"s regarding birth control, abortion rights, ordination of women and married men, and anything else that would bring the church into the 20th century (and, yes, I realize this is the 21st century...). It's really just a question of what gets emphasized, and it's too bad we're saddled with a new pope who's probably going to be using his pulpit to emphasize the "no"s on the social issues.
I have heard some rumors that Cardinal Ratzinger is not as much as a critic of capitalism and corporate power-also known in the Church as "consumerism", as was John Paul II.
As a Catholic, I would like to say, give him a chance. However, as a lapsed Catholic, I fear dark times are ahead for the Church. If Cardinal Ratzinger clamps down hard in enforcing his version of Catholic orthodoxy, I expect the Catholic Church to lose millions more in Europe and North America.
However, he could surprise us. The Cardinals were looking for a "caretaker" Pope when they elected John XXIII in 1963. Little did they expect he would convene the Second Vatican Council to "open the windows of the Church to the world" and let in a New Pentecost of the Holy Spirit.
I am enough of a Catholic to still have the virtue of hope and faith, hope that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church and prevent the Gates of Hell from prevailing over it.
"For I say unto you, Simon bar-Jona, that flesh and blood has not revealed this unto thee (that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God), but my Father which is in Heaven. And I say unto thee, that THOU ART PETER (meaning the rock), AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL WILL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT, AND I SHALL GIVE UNTO THEE THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, THAT WHATSOVER THOU SHALT BIND ON EARTH SHALT BE BOUND IN HEAVEN, AND WHATSOEVER THOU SHALT LOOSE ON EARTH SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN."
I would just add to your comment about Catholic being concentrated in New England that they are also present in large numbers in the Great Lakes states of Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin as well as in the highly Hispanic states of the Southwest and California.
Otherwide interesting comments on the state of today's Church.
In fact, he has tried to emulate and ostrisize various groups of people in the NAME OF THE LORD... makes him a really really really bad choice.
He has not repented for his sins but has amplified the sins of a genocide he participated in as a youth and as a cardinal called for the same kind of hatred towards his fellow man...
He still is a NAZI.
1. he fought in the war, protecting an
engine manufacturing plant , manned
an anti aircraft gun. wore the nazi
uniform.
2. he was a member of the hitler youth..
but... I also heard.
1. he never fired a shot against the allies,
it was essentially a civil defense job.
2. he never attended any of the hitler youth
meetings and was opposed to the whole thing.
he was only signed up because it was
the law to have everyone automatically
signed up.
Now, if you really care about this sort
of thing I would advise reading this
article..
http://www.killingthebuddha.com/dogma/readingniebuhr.htm
"Success in world politics," Niebuhr contended, "necessitates a disavowal of the pretentious elements in our original dream, and a recognition of the values and virtues which enter into history in unpredictable ways." - Reinhold Neibuhr
There is a freshness and wonder in Ratzinger's depiction of the happy family in which he was reared, under the shadow of the horror that was the Third Reich. Family and Church were, for him, inseparable, and he clearly saw Hitler as the enemy of both. Nazism was at its heart a religious movement that, by its own evil lights, had to attack a Church that championed a "foreign Jewish and Roman" faith. His father, a village policeman, saw this from the beginning. "With unfailing clairvoyance he saw that the victory of Hitler would not be a victory for Germany but a victory of the Antichrist which would surely usher in apocalyptic times for all believers, and not only for believers." Young Ratzinger had to spend some time in a military work brigade, always hoping for the victory of the allies, and being irritated by the way the Americans seemed to be taking their own sweet time in prosecuting the war. The chief lesson he draws from the war years, however, is a lesson about the Church. "Despite many human failings, the Church was the alternative to the destructive ideology of the Nazis. In the inferno that had swallowed up the powerful, she had stood firm with a force coming to her from eternity. It had been demonstrated: The gates of hell will not prevail against her."
-=-
My findings are simple. His resume shows
he's stiff, to be sure. The son of a cop.
But I find that I like him. The best
way to win the wars of religion are
to embrace the true christ and that relationship,
almost romantic - carrying you through
to real answers - stemcell, cloning,
and the brave new world of people playing
their lives through like video games.
It may very well be that we are saved by
our faith. In ratzingers case, he was saved
by boot licking toadyism but his soul
seems pure enough. There was enough blt ism
in the germany of the third reich.
our problem is to solve the situation
of americas reichstag. that nuculur option
thang is lookin' more and more like
the gop's krystallnacht maneuver.
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myDD - skin
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