You know what a kidder Dick is.

First, they said, we don't need a department of homeland security, keep it in the white house (less oversight, see?).  then, when that became a joke, they basically adopted Lieberman's plan and called it their own, and spoke at GOP fundraisers saying Democratic Senators valued Unions over national security. Oh and then they scheduled that little vote about some war you might heard of...

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Are there any substantial differences between Korb's plan and Biden's plan?

In fact, it sounds to me like everybody is rushing to agree with Murtha, after they said that Murtha's plan was wrong.

Are Bush and Biden both, in essence, voting for Murtha's resolution after they voted against it?

Aside from dates and minor details, is there any difference between the Murtha/Korb plan, the Biden plan and the new and improved Bush plan?

It's in their nature.

Now that there are plans being put forth, they are co-opted and lied about?  Not surprising.

When the republican party is tearing their hair out trying to get dems to do this or that, we should do the opposite.

One day they're saying withdrawl is irresponsible, the next they're saying withdrawl has been their plan all along, and now the Democrats are finally warming up to it?

Really, that is disturbing.

I do believe we will have bases there indefinitely with the grace of the new Iraqi government, like our other bases around the world, but the majority of our troops are not planned to stay in Iraq.

My argument was too large for a comment so I added an entry for the response at: Flawed Strategy with Iraq.  

Will there be a gradual or "phased" withdrawal? I do not think so. The reality, I am fairly sure, is that any withdrawal will have to be abrupt. This will probably be necessary for a rather wide variety of reasons. Can anyone really imagine what would happen if, say, 2/3 of the forces withdrew, leaving the remaining 1/3 behind? I wouldn't want to.

Mr, Bush's problem, in essence, is that he gave a war, and not enough people came. How many people are lining up at recruitment centers these days? And not only that, but you really should consider -- this is Iraq -- they have hellacious, sand-blasting sand storms -- everything from giant cargo jets to wristwatches gets sand-blasted to smithereens. That gets very expensive!

So, if reality has anything to do with what goes on in Washington at all (visualize a huge question-mark here) there will have to be an abrupt withdrawal. But Bush cannot simply say, "time to come home for dinner, folks," can he?

The big problem is not just the war, but the people who started it (kind of by pulling it out of their "faulty intelligence" "magic hat"). Bush will still be around. And, you know, they say that serial killers tend to "ramp up."

Not only that, but I supported John Kerry all the stupid way. And now it is so obvious that he should never have voted to let Bush do this insane stuff. And he should never have just abandoned us when the 2004 election was stolen. Think of it: even the denizens of the dimmest "red state" regions understand that.

I am so sick of this insanity. I think we have a problem, Houston! What we need is a whole new government.

We know these bozos are only good at one thing: stealing stuff (like elections). So if they suddenly wake up one fine morning and find they don't have any new recruits, and the entire military infrastructure has been sand-blasted to bits, just what do you suppose they will do?

Anyone that claims otherwise is reality challenged. I understand why you leftists lie to others, but when you start lying to yourselves it's time to check into the mental hospital.

Without any opposing voices of sanity, you have nothing left but a mutual masturbation session.

The unprincipled intellectual laziness exhibited by this site is matched only by its rank hypocrisy.

Enjoy the circle jerk, boys.