Kerry Heading For a Large Victory?

My final projections will answer no, but Gallup certainly seems to think so (emphasis in original): As we know by now, Gallup released its last national poll last night, and as we expected, in order to preserve its credibility Gallup's last poll amongst LVs shows last week's 5% lead for Bush (51%-46%) now shrinking to a 49%-47% lead for Bush over Kerry [49-49 with leaners]. Amongst registered voters, Kerry has a 48%-46% lead.

But toss out those results by Gallup. Why? Because take a look at the composition of the LV and RV samples by party ID that Gallup used last night in their poll. I just got the internals from Gallup, and the LV sample they used had a 5% GOP advantage over the Democrats, and Kerry still almost tied Bush.

1573 Likely Voters


1559 In Sample
Bush Leads Kerry 49%-47%

GOP: 624 (40%)
Ind: 389 (25%)
Dem: 546 (35%)

When compared to the 2000 exit poll results, Gallup under sampled Democrats by 4% and over sampled Republicans by 5%, a nifty 9% swing. If the sample was reweighted to more closely follow the 2000 exit poll party ID breakdown of 39% Dem/35% GOP/26% Ind, can you imagine what kind of lead Kerry would have?

Fox seems to think so as well, and it is causing Limbaugh's head to explode: Fat rush is in a meltdown on the air right now. As he came on the air they handed him the incredible fox news poll results and he freaked out. He just "cant believe how stupid Americans are" Bush "should be leading by 30 points" says the porky pig of right wing talk radio.

He was "shocked all weekend as he saw how desensitized Americans are to OBL, the man who murdered 3000 of us." Rush had expected a bush bounce of 10 points over the weekend and he is stuck with a -2 thud!

Hahahahahahaha!

The internals of the Fox poll give Bush a 91-5 lead among Republicans, Kerry a 91-6 lead among Democrats, and Kerry a 46-40 lead among Independents. In other words, even though they show Kerry winning, they also over-sampled Republicans. According to 2000 Party ID exit polls, Kerry would lead 49.17 to 44.91, even before the undecided break. That would result in an election similar to 1988, with Kerry sweeping every swing state plus Virginia and maybe North Carolina.

Oh yeah, the Democracy Corps poll, while Democratic and showing a 48-47 Kerry lead, was actually 39D-39R. Further, Zogby admitted to under-sampling voters under 30, where Kerry held a 2-1 lead. Now, I personally do not think that Kerry will win big, but it remains an outside possibility. Right now, a big win for Bush looks impossible.

Tags: General 2008 (all tags)

Comments

30 Comments

The Kerry Landslide
While I, too, believe there is an outside chance of a Kerry "landslide" I do not think he can get a 1988-like result.

The components of a Kerry "landslide" are victory are Gore+NH+OH+FL.  And it would be a "landslide" even if Kerry doesn't hold NM.

To reject an incumbent during a "war" and especially to reject an incumbent who has had the uncritical support of the mass media for all but a couple weeks out of the last four years, would be an overwhelming rejection.  

I will be satisfied with any victory, but I do hope for the larger margins to solidify that message:  American rejects Bush/Cheney/

by James Earl 2004-11-01 09:50AM | 0 recs
Re: The Kerry Landslide
The only way Bush can win in a landslide is it the country acts like it historically has in the time of war. The Party ID shifts to favor republicans. Then all of the polls will be off. It would be hard to belive they would stay the same as the 2000 election or that Kerry would pick up any. This election has nothing to do with John Kerry, it is anybody but Bush.
by Patrick Henry 2004-11-01 02:28PM | 0 recs
Re: The Kerry Landslide
What else is new?  Any election in which a canddiate is running for reelection is, first and foremost, a referendum on the incumbent.
by KTinOhio 2004-11-01 07:10PM | 0 recs
Big win????
I hope you're right, but Florida and Ohio both look about 50/50.  Fortunately, I think Kerry only has to take one.  The Slate analyst, bless his heart, was sharp enough to point out that if the probability is 50 percent in both states, the odds of a split are 3 to 1.  I like that kind of thinking.  Of course, that means the odds of Kerry sweeping are only 1 in 4.  
by Randi 2004-11-01 09:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Big win????
"The Slate analyst, bless his heart, was sharp enough to point out that if the probability is 50 percent in both states, the odds of a split are 3 to 1. Of course, that means the odds of Kerry sweeping are only 1 in 4."

I don't think so. If both states are 50-50, the odds of Kerry sweeping are 1 in 4, but the odds of Bush sweeping are also 1 in 4. So the odds of a split are the remaining 2 in 4, or 50-50.

by Omark 2004-11-01 10:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Big win????
If the odds of winning OH and the odds of winning FL are both 50-50 then the breakout is as follows:
Four possibilities:
Kerry - FL and OH
Split - Bush FL - Kerry OH
Split - Kerry FL - Bush OH
Bush - FL and OH

Kerry wins in three of the 4 equal scenerios
above so it is 75% chance of Kerry getting
"at least" one of the states.

The "at least" part means you also have to
include Kerry winning both which you didn't
take into account.

Casey

by CaseyK24 2004-11-01 10:08AM | 0 recs
Odds don't mean a thing here
Odds, probability analysis, doesn't apply to these outcomes because they are not random.
by James Earl 2004-11-01 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Big win????
I think he means the odd of at least a split are 3 in 4.  But that analysis pretends that the two outcomes are not connected.  I would argue that the more likely it is that a candidate wins one state, the more likely he wins the other.  
by Christopher 2004-11-01 10:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Big win????
Omark - no, actually there are only 3 outcomes.. Bush sweeps, Kerry sweeps,, or they are split...

Now there are two ways a split could happen (Kerry wins only FL, or Kerry wins only OH), but either way it is still a split...

So it's 3-1 odds

by jvc 2004-11-01 10:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Big win????
While I have pointed out to others the same thing Slate did today, I don't necessarily believe it. There are three possibilities that I do not think any of us really have a handle on. One is that the tide moves in Bush's direction, the other it moves in Kerry's direction, and finally it doesn't move at all. If all that has been said here is true, about the newly registered, the young voters, and the poorly distributed samples then Kerry has a good chance of a sweep. I don't want to think about the opposite side of this coin. Finally if it really is as close as everyone has been saying then Slate has a point, and I will accept the 75% odds. We have a great chance tomorrow to change America for the better. I am just as happy as I could be that we sit here on the precipice of victory. I didn't think we would be here a few months ago.
by Kramer 2004-11-01 10:12AM | 0 recs
Landslide?
Well, we were waiting for the inevitable adjustment in the Gallup/Fox polls.  Now they can say not that one week before the election they were off by 10 points but that the night before they were CLOSE TO ALL THE OTHER POLLS. I stress the latter point because I think many of the other polling organizations, Zogby in particular, have essentially admitted they are being conservative in their methodology.  In other words, they are sticking very close to the 2000 data and saying, in essence, "If this were 2000 and the election were held today then  . . .".  This produces a very close outcome because the outcome in 2000 was very close.  But many often then go on to say if voter turnout is higher, if registration is up, if young people vote, if . . .   This is why, I argue Zogby polls are tied but Zogby himself has been predicting a Kerry win for a couple of weeks.  Legitimate polling groups need to be accurate and defensible - not just accurate.  So the conservative models are very defensible, but how accurate??  In short, I think a Kerry %50+ possible perhaps even likely and a handy electoral college count of 300+ also likely.  In RETROSPECT all the firms can say "wow, look at that turnout - if we had only known".  So, as always GOTV GOTV GOTV GOTV GOTG
by Wesc 2004-11-01 10:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Landslide?
Zogby's been predicting a Kerry victory since April, I believe. And I think he's been right to do so. Bush's stuck-in-the-40s approval ratings have been the key here, and will continue to be on election day.

I'm not getting over-confident, not for one second, but I think the chance of a landslide is good. Not the old-fashioned 60-40 LBJ-thumps-Goldwater-style landslide, but a hefty 330-350 EVs, plus both Houses of Congress, which is what a landslide looks like in the present political context.

And every dirty trick they try to keep people from voting just makes that landslide a bit more probable.

Reality bites back!

by Paul Rosenberg 2004-11-01 11:42AM | 0 recs
Redo the Gallup poll, Chris.
Chris, if you're out there, can you re-weight the Gallup poll to show what it would really look like, please? I'd be curious about that.
by TheGaffer 2004-11-01 10:10AM | 0 recs
Rush
Where is the link to Rush's comments?
by 143590 2004-11-01 10:15AM | 0 recs
Just Voted and this is what it looks like in C-Bus
If you are interested in what it looks like when you are in the eye of a hurricane, here's my blog

http://loganslurch.blogspot.com/2004/11/from-ground-columbus-ohio-11012004.html

It's gonna be nuts here tomorrow!

by Loganpoppy 2004-11-01 10:18AM | 0 recs
if fox's recalibrated numbers are correct...
then we are looking at a PV very similar to 1988, if undecideds (6%) break 4:2 and there are no significant turnout swings from 2000's 39D-35R-26I (somewhat dubious, I think).  Even so, by my calculations this would give Kerry around 52% to Bush's 46% to Nader et al's 2%.  While not quite George HW Bush's 8-point win over Dukakis and 426-112, it would probably yield us an electoral college win similar to Clinton's two.

Are we seeing a redux of 1980?  My prediction this morning was much more conservative with K 320- B 218, but maybe we'll all be pleasantly surprised tomorrow night?

by jsramek 2004-11-01 10:20AM | 0 recs
Stock Market
 Business - Reuters

Speculators Bet on Kerry Win, Oil Falls

 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&ncid=749&e=1&u=/nm/20041101/bs_n m/markets_oil_dc

by Nick 2004-11-01 10:24AM | 0 recs
Weighting polls for party ID
I hate to rain on the parade, but it's in my nature -- I'm a numbers geek and I can't help but try to keep things reality-based. Please see the Mystery Pollster on "Should pollsters weight by party identification?" www.mysterypollster.com/main/2004/09/should_pollster.html His conclusion is that they should not, but that they should strive nstead to match other, fixed, identifiers in the voting population (like age, gender, and perhaps most importantly, geography - urban/rural, for example). "Party ID" is not a fixed constant - it varies a lot depending on how one asks the questions and in response to current events. But lest I be accused of being a kill joy, I should point out that of all the ways that people out there are conducting polls, the Mystery Pollster likes the FOX weighting methodology best.
by Angus P 2004-11-01 10:26AM | 0 recs
2000 + Incumbent Rule = ???
I am happily lapping up the electoral optimism here, but I have a nagging point of inquiry....

The two most common phenomena I have seen cited for a Kerry win are:

  1.  The incumbent rule, and
  2.  Gore's 2000 "surge" relative to the polls previous to the election.  (Whether this is a true surge or consistently "off" polls has been up to debate.)

But I have read no one that puts 1) and 2) together -- didn't Gore's 2000 surge effectively represent a huge surge for the incumbent?

Although I know that the incumbent rule is meant to reflect an incumbent individual more than the incumbent party, it seems to me that taking both of these phenomena simultaneously is an exercise in using contradictory premises to gain a desired result.  

I'm hoping an astute contributor can explain this contradiction away.  (And, for me personally, at least, saying that the incumbent rule didn't apply to Gore at all doesn't really cut it.)

Any thoughts?

by j mikey l 2004-11-01 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: 2000 + Incumbent Rule = ???
the incumbent rule would have worked against Gore, not for him; most of the incumbents have received about what was expected, not more -- GHWB in 1988 got 0.7% more, and Reagan did get more, but in most cases, the challenger got the bulk of undecideds - certainly in 64, 76, 80, and 92 (if you include Perot).

And as for the "surge" to Gore, I don't think it means anything in the context of this election. We are seeing polls moving Kerry's way, for the most part.

by TheGaffer 2004-11-01 11:30AM | 0 recs
Ohio stronger than perceived
I only know Ohio. Small town, town and rural county in central OH. Kerry had to open second h.q., more drivers than needed, serious volunteer corps.

Today's Columbus Dispatch, a conservative Republican newspaper, has its final (OH) poll and several good articles today. Dead even overall, but poll covers Oct. 20-28, and represents 7 % Kerry improvement from their previous poll. Especially notable: 1 in 8 registered voters is new, highly concntrated in heavily Kerry districts, seen breaking 2-1 for Kerry. Ohio also has a huge college/university population, which anecdotally is highly motivated and clearly pro-Kerry. I smell a clear outcome, perhaps helped by latest Court rulings.  www.columbusdispatch.com

by theologos 2004-11-01 11:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Ohio stronger than perceived
what about the weather tomorrow? I saw they're expecting rain. Can't be good for turnout.
by bushsucks 2004-11-01 11:33AM | 0 recs
The Closer
"We are gaining momentum as the race winds down and people begin to make their final choices," said Sen. Kerry. "The tide is turning in our favor because people have begun to make up their minds."

Kerry quote from 11/4/96, a few days before he beat Weld 52-45, to hold his Senate seat.

by The Bit 2004-11-01 11:46AM | 0 recs
handicapping
Here's how I score the upcoming presidential election.  The folks at www.dataseers.com have conducted a rudimentary meta-analysis of the most recent state-level polls.  This approach has the advantage of removing many states from the "battleground" column into relatively safe states for one candidate or another.  For example, this meta-analysis puts Pennsylvania solidly in the Kerry column and Florida solidly in the Bush column.  It has the disadvantage of possibly missing very late trends in the polling data.  This approach puts all states but five solidly (85% chance or more of winning) in one camp or another.  Of those five states, I don't believe that three (Arizona, Hawaii, and Michigan) are really in play.  Arizona will go for Bush, Hawaii and Michigan for Kerry.  That leaves only two states really in play: Iowa, with seven electoral votes, and Ohio, with twenty.

An appendix with how I call the states is listed at the bottom.  But the real bottom line is that Bush has 259 safe electoral votes, and Kerry 252.  That makes Iowa irrelevant, and Ohio the state that will make a big difference.  (Unless, of course, Hawaii really is in play, in which case Bush could lose Ohio, but win, with 270 electoral votes, by carrying Iowa and Hawaii).

If you're looking for an early indicator, check New Hampshire.  Kerry should take this one; if he doesn't it's going to be a long night for Democrats.  There probably isn't a good early indicator for Bush.  Florida would be, of course, but after what happened in 2000 the networks are going to wait forever to call that one.

So, the election really is too close to call, but saying that is the coward's way out.  Who's really going to win?  The Democrats could win if they dramatically increase voter turnout, but I don't believe they really have the troops to do that.  Blame this on Tony Coelho and his inheritors.  Failing sharply increased turnout, the election will turn on late trends.  So how will the late deciders break?  They're going to break for Bush.  The one issue on which he has consistently led Kerry throughout the campaign is ability to fight the war on terror.  (I'm not saying he is better, just that he's consistently perceived to be better, and by a large margin).  With Friday's release of the Osama bin Laden tape, that issue is going to have more salience in voters' minds.  Hence, Bush wins.

As for the Senate and House, don't sweat it.  They're both staying Republican.

Happy election!  Vote early and often!

BUSH STATES (electoral votes in parentheses)
Alaska (3)
Alabama (7)
Arkansas (6)
Arizona (10)
Colorado (9)
Florida (27)
Georgia (15)
Idaho (4)
Indiana (11)
Kansas (6)
Kentucky (8)
Louisiana (9)
Missouri (11)
Mississippi (6)
Montana (3)
North Carolina (15)
North Dakota (3)
Nebraska (5)
New Mexico (5)
Nevada (5)
Oklahoma (7)
South Carolina (8)
South Dakota (3)
Tennessee (11)
Texas (34)
Utah (5)
Virginia (13)
West Virginia (5)
Wyoming (3)

KERRY STATES
California (55)
Connecticut (7)
D.C. (3)
Delaware (3)
Hawaii (4)
Illinois (21)
Massachusetts (12)
Maryland (10)
Maine (4)
Michigan (17)
Minnesota (10)
New Hampshire (4)
New Jersey (15)
New York (31)
Oregon (7)
Pennsylvania (21)
Rhode Island (4)
Vermont (3)
Washington (11)
Wisconsin (10)

STATES IN PLAY
Iowa (7)
Ohio (20)

by mcintyre 2004-11-01 11:50AM | 0 recs
Re: handicapping
another early tell will be the races in WV, VA and NC. If Kerry is keeping those close, those are perhaps even better tells than NH. If he wins NH, that'll be filed by the media as "expected." But if he's within 1-2% in WVA and VA, that might be considered signs of real good GOTV efforts.
by TheGaffer 2004-11-01 01:07PM | 0 recs
Re: handicapping (or rather wishful thinking)
Fascinating analysis....and very wrong. Every indication seems to point to the fact that the OBL tape has hurt Bush. Look at CBS newly released poll, his number for terrorism have DROPPED since the tape.

The omens point to a pretty bad defeat for the President. Nice try though.

by Marvin42 2004-11-01 01:07PM | 0 recs
GALLUP
For months now on the Emerging Democratic Majority blog they have been playing "how can Gallup?"

This is a little game showing us how gallup skews their polls very far to the right.  Check it out:

http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweblog.com/donkeyrising/archives/000731.php

http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweblog.com/donkeyrising/archives/000730.php

http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweblog.com/donkeyrising/archives/000729.php

by phemfrog 2004-11-01 12:20PM | 0 recs
Given Chris' reweighting of the Gallup poll...
...and my reweighting of the Pew poll, Kerry's ahead 49-45 (Gallup) or 49-46 (Pew).  I'd say a win in the 52-47 ballpark is not completely beyond hope.  

If Kerry gets that sort of popular vote margin, he'll get 320 EVs easily, and ought to pick up at least one surprise somewhere, along the lines of VA, NC, MO, CO, or AZ.

I'm not saying this will happen.  But it's possible.

by RT 2004-11-01 12:22PM | 0 recs
Colin Powell's Contribution
Today I eagerly awaited media and blog reaction to Newsweek's supposed article wherein Colin Powell is described as having told friends the Iraq war is unwinnable. I think this would hit Bush where it hurts. But I've not yet seen anything. Any reports?
by JWRoughshod 2004-11-01 01:29PM | 0 recs
Rush...
As a corporate pilot I flew Rush on several occasions, and I must say that he's actually a pretty nice guy.  Regardless... I still hope when Tuesday morning rolls around, that steam comes shooting out his ears as his goes into an insane screamin tantrum that is only ended when the guys in white coats come and stick him in his fat ass with a shot of sodium pentathol before forcing him into a straight jacket and driving him to a nice quiet place in the country for a well deserved extended rest.
by Slapmaxwell 2004-11-01 01:58PM | 0 recs

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