My First Take

Edwards opened up incredibly strong in the first two or three questions. Cheney seemed somewhat taken aback by Edwards and his willingness to call the Vice-President all of the lies he has been spewing about Iraq over the past several months. For crying out loud, on at least 30 occasions over the past several months, Cheney said that there was a connection between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, and between Iraq and 9/11. He even said so in his first couple responses in this debate, and then later denied having ever said it before going on and saying it several more times.

The rest of the Iraq portion of the debate was extremely spirited, and far more articulate than most of the exchanges in the Presidential debate (not having Bush on the stage helped the level of articulation on foreign policy quite a bit). Cheney held his nose above water against an Edwards who was absolutely on fire. However, once the question about Halliburton came up, everything changed. Cheney offered a very weak defense, and when the questions soon shifted to domestic policy, he actually started to look bored. While Edwards stayed strong thoroughout, Cheney started mumbling his answers so badly that at times it was difficult to hear him. He kept ceding his time and let Edwards have the final say on everything. He looked to be in open disagreement with Bush on the hate amendment. He almost completely stopped looking at the camera. If it hadn't been for the inanity about not being able to say Kerry's name, the last fifty minutes would have been the greatest wipeout in the history of Presidential or Vice Presidential debates. Cheney honestly didn't look like he cared about domestic issues at all, and that he was being forced to answer questions in a class that he loathed.

After the name flap, Edwards picked back up right where he left off and more than recovered. Will anyone remember anything about Cheney in this debate except Haliburton? Was there any indication that Cheney actually cares anything in America except its military? There is no doubt that Edwards won. Now its our turn. Let's win the post-debate spin.

Update, by Jerome:

Nice wrap Chris. I went down to the historic Nectars here in Burlington to view the debate. I soaked it in amidst the cheering throngs of Edwards & Kerry supporters. I swear, Cheney had a "that's it" a "no mas" moment. He knew, Cheney knows. That bald old man realized that John Edwards is going to take his job, and that John Kerry is the next President. I gotta say, this was the greatest Presidential-level debate I've ever seen. Edwards came out swinging hard, like I've never seen him do before, and knocked Cheney down; but yet, Cheney did get off the mat and hit back on Kerry, but not nearly as hard as Dick had fallen. Yes, too little too late. And when Edwards delivered the 1-2 blow of Haliburton and the acknowledgment of the gay Cheney daughter, Dick had nothing to do but grin & bear the load of his profiteering ways and of Bush the divider; and then speechless, to thank Edwards for the acknowledgment of his daughter-- that was the moment. It was a heartfelt moment that Republicans don't give the Cheney family-- that their daughter is real, and not some stupid fundamental sin that they are hooked upon. Edwards exposed the chasm tonight of the Republicans moral veracity. I saw a defeat in Dick Cheney tonight that's going to be delivered to George Bush on November 2nd; and I signed up to phone canvas undecided New Hampshire voters too, just to make sure. Thank you John Edwards, you did one hell of a job.

Tags: Media (all tags)

Comments

12 Comments

remember
the republican spin keeps saying this put john kerry's senate record on the table for debate, but remember it put cheney's congressional record on the table for debate.
by inst 2004-10-05 07:01PM | 0 recs
People seeing through all the Goopy fluff
I think the voting record is going downstream right behind the Swift boats.  Momentum is taking over.  For the first time in the past month I'm feeling very good about this thing.
by Slapmaxwell 2004-10-05 07:16PM | 0 recs
Re: People seeing through all the Goopy fluff
You must have missed the debate tonight.
by Patrick Henry 2004-10-05 08:31PM | 0 recs
Missed opportunity
"I'm there most Tuesdays.  I never met you before walking onto this stage tonight."

"Well, I was afraid of what you might say to me.  But seroiusly, you folks ran on a platform of "uniter, not a divider".  Well, your administration's ways of 'uniting' are different from what we do in the South - and, I'd imagine, everywhere else in America."

by Mike Stark 2004-10-05 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Missed opportunity
Cheney pointed out that Bush was able to unite Texas, a state where the vast majority of both Republicans and Democrates are some shade of conservative.   Ooooh, there was a tall order.  Last time I checked, the country as a whole, polically speaking, was not Texas.
by AzSaxCat 2004-10-06 02:46AM | 0 recs
Karl Rove hasn't figured this out yet
He still thinks he's running a state-wide canidate in some southern state.  Bush is going to lose because of this.
by Geotpf 2004-10-06 07:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Karl Rove hasn't figured this out yet
Yep, just like Bush "lost" last time.  Hence Rove's need for election theft to accommplish the mission.
by AzSaxCat 2004-10-06 05:36PM | 0 recs
Re: My First Take
Darth Vader vs Robin indeed as the Note noted, lol. Cheney held his own, as far as lies there was no checking, so he said he said. Edward missed a LOT of easy shots, as did Kerry, like the $87 Billion that Bush would veto unless it was debt, Cheney's statements on Iraq in 92 (glad we didn't go to Baghdad) and 03 (showers of flowers) etc etc. Cheney was ready by denying knowing Edward's cases, yeah right, got out of that one!
I hate to say it but I don't see many votes moving from this. A tie but probably no losses.
by astuar 2004-10-05 07:41PM | 0 recs
Four issues Edwards nailed
  1. Iraq - I thought Edwards absolutely nailed the Bush record of failure in Iraq several times. Cheney's attacks on Kerry's inconsistency is getting old and unpersuasive except to their base. The undecided voters who saw Kerry last week have already made up their mind that he is fit for commmand.
  2. The Middle Class Squeeze - one extensive answer on the middle class squeeze that he supported indirectly several times. Big score for Edwards
  3. Health Care - Excellent posture letting the voters decide for themselves by saying they all know how bad the health care problem is.
  4. Jobs in Cleveland - I'll bet I wasn't the only one who was unaware that Cleveland had the highest poverty rate? Higher than Mississippi? The American people know how bad the jobs picture is and Bush/Cheney can't spin it. Cheney's answer on jobs was so shallow and unspecific he might as well have stayed home. Big win for Edwards.
by Gary Boatwright 2004-10-05 07:47PM | 0 recs
the Debate
I thought Edwards was a welcome antidote to the doom-and-gloom ticket of Bush/Cheney.  Edwards was fresh, optimistic and sincere.  Cheney still reeks of the 9/11 lie.
by Dorothy Ligon 2004-10-05 08:42PM | 0 recs
Hard To Tell...
As we all know from 2000, it's not enough to win the debate, you've got to win the after-debate. I agree with all the points made here--as well as the most fundamental point: he showed America that he's capable of holding his own at the VP level. But Edwards performance still has to go up against the GOP wall of spin, which segues directly into the next Presidential debate.  So the impact of this debate will inevitably not become clear until after the Friday debate. It's like a set-up for a spike in volleyball.  

I think that Edwards missed some real opportunities, which would have made it more decisive (repeating that list of Cheney's votes would have been a simple blow to land), but all-in-all he seems to have done a good job of setting up Kerry for a spike.  But we won't really know until Kerry pounds it.  

by Paul Rosenberg 2004-10-05 11:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Hard To Tell...
One of those missed opportunities was the chance to fully rebut the voted-for-then-against-the-$87 million "flip-flop" charge.  I've yet to hear the point made in the debates thus far that Kerry (and Edwards?) voted against that money going toward the Iraq effort, in part, because there was no provision to suspend the tax cut on the wealthy to pay for it.  This ties into Sen. Edwards' "Two Americas" theme:  In this case there is one America where those who can most afford to make a sacrifice for the war are not asked to do so, while in the other America the sacrifice is being made mainly by the troops fighting that war and their families, but also by others who, along with their children and grandchildren, will foot the bill.

Having said that, however, I thought that John Edwards held his own in the debate, fearlessly attacking Dick Cheney on all points where he needed to, defending himself well and keeping his cool in the face of Cheney's ire, lies and smear.  On balance I don't think that any Kerry/Edwards votes were lost, and in fact many were probably gained -- if for no other reason, people probably don't want to see Dick sneer for another four years.

by AzSaxCat 2004-10-06 02:41AM | 0 recs

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